An old theme : warrior versus paladin and DN

[Orshok]

Hello, coming back to wow after a few months interruption (wife and a new irl baby). I couldn't find any recent thread about the warrior :

In the last weeks, I used raf to level a few toons to 60. Outdoors, I dislike playing the 5 guys together, I look for discretion, so Im planning to quest with (holy pala, arcane mage, arcane mage) and (balance druid, prot warrior).
Indoors, I play with the 5 toons. The warrior has been "rafed" for the last 30 levels so Im far from knowing this class very well.

1) I know it's not as good as the aoe pala but with the new talents in the protection tree (like shockwave), it is becoming better for multiboxing tanking ?

2) I have also a DN on the same account as the wawa : is the frost DN easier to multibox than the prot wawa ?.

thanks for your help !

[Bigfish]

1) I know it's not as good as the aoe pala but with the new talents in the protection tree (like shockwave), it is becoming better for multiboxing tanking ?

2) I have also a DN on the same account as the wawa : is the frost DN easier to multibox than the prot wawa ?.

1) Shockwave and Thunderclap are both supposed to be great AOE threat generators, helping with the "grab a group and don't worry about CC" mind set.

2) I don't see there being too much of a difference. Its really become more a matter of flavor at this point.

[algol]

Paladins take the least effort. Others bring more toys.

Me, I figure the 15% speed and 13% damage a DK brings is worth a little extra fuss, on top of doing substantial damage itself while tanking. But sometimes I'm lazy and just want to pallytank.

[Hachoo]

I put my vote in for DK (as I have a DK and 4 Shamans already downing heroics on farm).

DKs look the coolest (the abilities), have the coolest name, the best buff for an all shaman team (ebon plaguebringer), the best PvP utility, and the most DPS IMO (especially on boss fights) - I can pull 1600 DPS without trying in blues and heroic epics on my DK throughout an instance just using DnD, diseases, and Unholy Blight.

[Multibocks]

Whats a DN?

[Orshok]

Actually, a DN is a DK with a spelling mistake.

Anyway, thanks for all the replies. I just spent 2 hours reading all the messages by Hachoo written in 2009. I have a big headache but definitely settle for unholy DK as a tank. At least, Ill try.

[Hachoo]

Actually, a DN is a DK with a spelling mistake.

Anyway, thanks for all the replies. I just spent 2 hours reading all the messages by Hachoo written in 2009. I have a big headache but definitely settle for unholy DK as a tank. At least, Ill try.I'm not sure if thats a compliment or a minor insult but thanks :D

[Multibocks]

Here's the pure and simple of it:

Paladin is the easiest. I have one castrandom macro for my paladin and it covers every situation. The only buttons I press in addition to that are taunt and divine protection. It's basically the lazy mans tank.

Warriors are kinda different. You can get by with a one-size fits all macro and be a decent tank OR you could be an awesome tank, but it requires tons of experience and good macros. The difference between a well played warrior and a decent warrior is amazing. This dichotomy really doesnt exist with paladin tanks(well ok, if you are a mouthbreather you probably will find tanking in general hard.)

DKs Im finding are a lot of fun and from my limited experience I would place them between warriors and paladins in difficulty to play. DKs have a lot of abilities so it's really imperative that you research the class and find the best macros for you. I find with a warrior tank I have around 15 or so abilities that I like to be handy in a fight, DKs about 10 and paladins about 5 (that is not very accurate, just a guess on experience.) Terrible part is I find myself opening my abilities book really often with a warrior as I just dont have enough hotkeys. I'm just not willing to put in the time to come up with a good system of macros for tanking as a warrior.

[Hachoo]

This is the second thread in recent times that a member has asked about Warrior vs Paladins (I think the other included Druids), and other members decide to derail the thread with DK comments.

Please try to not hijack threads. lolErm? This thread was about Paladins warriors and deathknights (the OP quoted that the DN in the title was supposed to be DK but was a typo).

[atheus]

Here's the pure and simple of it:

Paladin is the easiest. I have one castrandom macro for my paladin and it covers every situation. The only buttons I press in addition to that are taunt and divine protection. It's basically the lazy mans tank.
I agree completely with this statement.

I have a 71 DK and a 72 Warrior and have tanked while 5-boxing with both. They required much more attention than the pally. With the warr I had to worry about timing/positioning with my aoe taning abilities. With the dk I had to think about timing of pestilance and what diseases are on the target.

[Hachoo]

Here's the pure and simple of it:

Paladin is the easiest. I have one castrandom macro for my paladin and it covers every situation. The only buttons I press in addition to that are taunt and divine protection. It's basically the lazy mans tank.
I agree completely with this statement.

I have a 71 DK and a 72 Warrior and have tanked while 5-boxing with both. They required much more attention than the pally. With the warr I had to worry about timing/positioning with my aoe taning abilities. With the dk I had to think about timing of pestilance and what diseases are on the target.I've downed a bunch of heroics with my DK tank and I don't ever worry about pestilence or diseases. I have a castsequence macro that handles everything for me. The only thing special I do is drop a DnD at the beginning of every combat which frontloads a crapload of aggro.

[elsegundo]

Here's the pure and simple of it:

Paladin is the easiest. I have one castrandom macro for my paladin and it covers every situation. The only buttons I press in addition to that are taunt and divine protection. It's basically the lazy mans tank.
I agree completely with this statement.

I have a 71 DK and a 72 Warrior and have tanked while 5-boxing with both. They required much more attention than the pally. With the warr I had to worry about timing/positioning with my aoe taning abilities. With the dk I had to think about timing of pestilance and what diseases are on the target.I've downed a bunch of heroics with my DK tank and I don't ever worry about pestilence or diseases. I have a castsequence macro that handles everything for me. The only thing special I do is drop a DnD at the beginning of every combat which frontloads a crapload of aggro.
Hachoo... question.

I do two things, and i kinda dont really care whether which one works better... while multimob grinding, but you've brought up something that makes me wonder when i do tank...

first sequence:
drop DnD. PS/IT/Pest/DS/UB.

second sequence:
IT/PS/Pest/UB/Blood Boil.


ok here's what im thinking. i like using blood boil because it keeps me alert on the cooldown of my diseases, plus it has a nice glow when all 4-8 mobs "boil" at once (blood boil should never be used against one mob... multimobs are fine. the damage created by it for just one mob is too low to be beneficial). this doesnt front load threat as much as DnD i believe, but overall, which does more damage and which will produce more threat overall, over time? mind you this is only my way of doing this. i switch back and forth between the two and figure its easier to do it the second way, since DnD does cost some runes. have you tried this before? can you comment on this? can anyone else comment on this?
i ask because you tank. i dont tank with my dk but would love to one day. i just run around and grab mobs and grind. =D

[elsegundo]

This is the second thread in recent times that a member has asked about Warrior vs Paladins (I think the other included Druids), and other members decide to derail the thread with DK comments.

Please try to not hijack threads. lolErm? This thread was about Paladins warriors and deathknights (the OP quoted that the DN in the title was supposed to be DK but was a typo).

My Bad. :)my guess is... in two weeks, someone will post a thread, "Warrior vs Pally vs DKn vs Drood... which one's better at tanking?"


i still dont know why people have been ignoring druids. they're awesome.

[Multibocks]

they suck!!!

























just kidding :D

[Hachoo]

Here's the pure and simple of it:

Paladin is the easiest. I have one castrandom macro for my paladin and it covers every situation. The only buttons I press in addition to that are taunt and divine protection. It's basically the lazy mans tank.
I agree completely with this statement.

I have a 71 DK and a 72 Warrior and have tanked while 5-boxing with both. They required much more attention than the pally. With the warr I had to worry about timing/positioning with my aoe taning abilities. With the dk I had to think about timing of pestilance and what diseases are on the target.I've downed a bunch of heroics with my DK tank and I don't ever worry about pestilence or diseases. I have a castsequence macro that handles everything for me. The only thing special I do is drop a DnD at the beginning of every combat which frontloads a crapload of aggro.
Hachoo... question.

I do two things, and i kinda dont really care whether which one works better... while multimob grinding, but you've brought up something that makes me wonder when i do tank...

first sequence:
drop DnD. PS/IT/Pest/DS/UB.

second sequence:
IT/PS/Pest/UB/Blood Boil.


ok here's what im thinking. i like using blood boil because it keeps me alert on the cooldown of my diseases, plus it has a nice glow when all 4-8 mobs "boil" at once (blood boil should never be used against one mob... multimobs are fine. the damage created by it for just one mob is too low to be beneficial). this doesnt front load threat as much as DnD i believe, but overall, which does more damage and which will produce more threat overall, over time? mind you this is only my way of doing this. i switch back and forth between the two and figure its easier to do it the second way, since DnD does cost some runes. have you tried this before? can you comment on this? can anyone else comment on this?
i ask because you tank. i dont tank with my dk but would love to one day. i just run around and grab mobs and grind. =DGood question. Since my shamans are capable of quite awesome DPS I don't really worry about how much damage I do on my DK, therefore I use the exact same macro on my DK to do everything (whether I'm tanking 1 mob or 10): Edit: Also, I never put a command that requires RP in a castsequence - on the off chance you miss some attacks and don't have enough RP to use it your castsequence will be stuck forever until it resets. I manually cast unholy blight on pulls where I need it :)

#showtooltip
/cast Rune Strike
/castsequence reset=target Icy Touch,Plague Strike,Pestilence,Blood Boil,Death Strike

On multimob pulls I drop a DnD immediately before hitting the tank macro for the first time.

I did used to swap out a second macro for questing and fighting bosses:

#showtooltip
/cast Rune Strike
/castsequence reset=target Icy Touch,Plague Strike,Blood Strike,Blood Strike,Death Strike

But I'm too lazy to swap it in every time I need it now, though to really get great DPS against bosses on my DK I should probably use it - the fact of the matter is I don't really need it and I'm fairly lazy so I use the first macro for everything ;) Sorry I couldn't be of more help, but I haven't really looked too much into what does the best damage with my DK while tanking.

[unseen]

My experiences with my warrior tanking have been varied:

A few things that have been real helpful with my warrior:
Shockwave = cone stun that has been real helpful for healing. When he's low I can shockwave and I get a few moments to get off that big heal on my tank. It's been pretty handy.
Ranged silence. I forget the ability name, but you throw your shield at a target and it silences them and causes high threat. Pretty nice for some of the casters.
Spell reflect. While this doesn't work on too many bosses, it's nice for trash with casters.

One incredibly annoying thing that makes me hate my warrior:
I tried doing the instance in the violet hold where enemies come out of the portals at you - very similar to the dark portal instance in BC content. It was so frustrating to me I wiped and walked out. The guys coming out of the portal would run past my group and out of line of sight before i could thunderclap, or when my thunderclap was on cooldown. I couldn't run back to get them and I couldn't move my whole group around to micromanage that. It was infuriating. Paladins and DK's don't even have to deal with that. Consecrate and blood boil would grab all those little guys like cake - I have to time an instant cast just right to catch them on top of the regular dps/healing stuff going on.

Dealing with mobs that swarm past your tank onto your dps or healer when your thunderclap is on cooldown or you're stunned or knocked down is probably the most annoying thing about playing a warrior. Consecration or bloodboil, again, would just grab those guys without an issue.

Additionally, no blessings if you're running a warrior.

[elsegundo]

alright, thanks hachoo.
and yea, unholy blight does require a bit of management, especially when starting at zero RP.
but then again, i dont use castsequences, but rather use several buttons with modifiers so i can easily alter my sequence at ease. thanks for the input!

[algol]

My Bad. :)Heh, you hijacked it by complaining about thread hijacking. 8|


i still dont know why people have been ignoring druids. they're awesome.Uncrittable without the def stacking and hella lot of armor? Yeah. More so now that they can do some AoE tanking.

[puppychow]

A pally is easier when you start out heroics, a DK is easier once your group is well geared. Prot pallies are fairly boring when not grouped up, DKs can be very fun solo. Its a lot easier getting a group as a holy pally than any other DK/pally spec, if you ever want to raid to get some extra gear (in my last naxx25 run a holy pally got at least a dozen prot items, since all the other tanks had everything already and he was the only holy pally).

Some things are going to be easier with a paladin tank, some things are going to be easier with a DK tank. Pretty much every heroic has been cleared by a pally+shaman and DK+shaman group, so you can't really go wrong with either. I haven't really heard of all-clears from warr+ or druid+ teams, although I am sure they are out there.