How beefy is your tank? (non-bear)

[mmcookies]

Mine hit 30454 health yesterday in pre-raid/crafted gear, def 535 for heroic boss cap and 51.84%

[valkry]

A frost dk in tank gear, pre-raid, pre-heroic I hit 27k hp pretty sure. Not long at all spent at 80. Not long at all.

Oh yea, only 505 defense or something, but belt needs to replaced as well as a few gems. Need rep enchants and get a nice big 2h with the gargoyle rune on it. Atm I'm dual-wielding with a dps mace and a dodge rating sword.

[mmcookies]

yup, i've been sitting at 27k for quite a while as well,
before i recently decided to look around for the best pre-raid gear (i don't plan on raiding)

i believe this is as high as it goes with the heroic def cap,
was wondering how it compared to other tanks

[moog]

Armory link, please, so we can drool :)

[SilverSlice]

my tank hit 80 5 days ago or so. def 547, armour 25/26k or so dmg reduction 62% or so. health 25800, 2 more bagdes and the neck and i should be able to hit 26k health

tanking is so much fun :)

Silver

[Hachoo]

I am currently at 29.7K HP (100% unbuffed), 541 def (552 really cause every time I use icy touch it jumps by 10.5 so its up the entirety of every fight), 22.5% dodge, 16% parry, 28.7k armor, 2800 attack power in tank gear.

I was up to 31k HP unbuffed before swapping out a bunch of stam gems for dodge gems. Will drop another 800hp or so shortly when I pick up the badge dodge trinket but my dodge will go up a couple percent. If I had fort + imp + kings + mark + shout + other raid buffs etc I imagine I could get up to 38k or so, maybe almost 40k.

[Tehtsuo]

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Madoran&n=Tehtsara

28k HP, but she's a little higher stamina than she usually is cause I logged out with my boosting trinkets equipped. I've started moving my focus from hitpoints into effective health and mitigation now that my gear level is reaching the top of what's available before Ulduar.

[atheus]

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Aggramar&n=Rarz

My tank unbuffed has 25k hp, 23k armor, 542 def and 52.29& mitigation.

He has tanked the easier half of heroics without much issue. Honestly my group needs more dps.

[jettzypher]

Mine hit 30454 health yesterday in pre-raid/crafted gear, def 535 for heroic boss cap and 51.84% i highly recommend going more for avoidance/def, and focus less on hp.

[Niley]

has every 10 man piece, avoidance set, stam set, full dps set, can go up to 34.4k hp in stam set, or up to 26.4% dodge and 32% parry in avoidance one(2 runes down, while keeping about 20 expertise and almost 260ish hit, both capped after hit food and expertise elixir). 542-545 def, depending which set.
Right now She's wearing mix of gear on armory. Also she does about 2k dps on single target.
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Antonidas&n=Crisethe

[mmcookies]

Mine hit 30454 health yesterday in pre-raid/crafted gear, def 535 for heroic boss cap and 51.84% i highly recommend going more for avoidance/def, and focus less on hp.I don't raid at all, so more defense is not nearly as valuable as more dodge or block.
In heroics, I actually need to beg god for mana unless I'm tanking 4+ mobs, which means my avoidance is more than enough.

[Bigfish]

I don't raid at all, so more defense is not nearly as valuable as more dodge or block.
In heroics, I actually need to beg god for mana unless I'm tanking 4+ mobs, which means my avoidance is more than enough.


Yeah, gotta love that "the better you are at tanking the harder it gets" affect.

Anywho, 24k/540 Defense after freshly dinging 80.

[Los]

Wanted to post my tonk, but its not really fair since I tank heroic raids with her. Seems I logged out in FR gear but in raids it runs up to 26% dodge, 19.5% parry, 23% block (thats before holy shield ofc), and normally I block around 2000 dmg. Unbuffed she runs 28k+ hp and buffed it can run over 35k.

Also if you are not up to par with gear, that fr set has pretty decent stats if punched full with def gems ;).

Pally tonk.
http://armory.wow-europe.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Al'Akir&n=xlos

[jettzypher]

you may not raid much, but def is the best avoidance stat you can get as it affects dodge, block, and parry. gemming/enchanting for def is just as good as gemming for pure dodge. still doesnt mean you shouldnt cut back on the pure sta gems/enchants and add more avoidance as suggested.

[Hachoo]

you may not raid much, but def is the best avoidance stat you can get as it affects dodge, block, and parry. gemming/enchanting for def is just as good as gemming for pure dodge. still doesnt mean you shouldnt cut back on the pure sta gems/enchants and add more avoidance as suggested.For Warriors and Paladins possibly, but gemming for straight dodge is better than defense for DKs as we get nothing from shield block, and for druids defense is horrible.

[Los]

remember the DR on avoidance now a days, you might gain more dollarsworth for gemming a certain stat then just for def.

[Bigfish]

For Warriors and Paladins possibly, but gemming for straight dodge is better than defense for DKs as we get nothing from shield block, and for druids defense is horrible.

The difference isn't that big. Dodge beats out defense for avoidance, but only at ~39 points for 1% of dodge versus ~41 points for 1% combined dodge, parry, and miss from defense. Defense doesn't hit diminishing returns either.

[Hachoo]

For Warriors and Paladins possibly, but gemming for straight dodge is better than defense for DKs as we get nothing from shield block, and for druids defense is horrible.

The difference isn't that big. Dodge beats out defense for avoidance, but only at ~39 points for 1% of dodge versus ~41 points for 1% combined dodge, parry, and miss from defense. Defense doesn't hit diminishing returns either.That might be true but dodge is better than parry in multiple ways and so having 1% combined dodge parry and miss is worse than just 1% dodge.

[Bigfish]

That might be true but dodge is better than parry in multiple ways and so having 1% combined dodge parry and miss is worse than just 1% dodge.

How is dodge better than miss/parry? Seems it all equals "incoming hit doesn't land" to me.

[Iceorbz]

Takes more points of parry to equal one percent compared to 1% dodge.. ie like lets say to get 16-17% parry you need 60 parry rating, dodge 16-17% may only take like 40 dodge rating.

Dodge scales alot better then parry, and also on the note of defense, first getting defense capped is #1, then maintaining a ratio of 3-1 or 2-1 on your defense to dodge is optimal.
im in fury gear atm, but my warrior is like 28,231 hp's 24% dodge, 25% block, 17% parry rating and defense capped.

[Bigfish]

Takes more points of parry to equal one percent compared to 1% dodge.. ie like lets say to get 16-17% parry you need 60 parry rating, dodge 16-17% may only take like 40 dodge rating.

/sigh, right, but that wasn't the issue. 39 points in dodge increases your dodge by 1%. 41 points in Defense increases Dodge/Parry/Miss by 1%. Hachoo was saying 1% dodge is fundamentaly better than 1% Dodge/Parry/Miss. I don't see why dodge is any more or less prefferable than miss or parry.

[Iceorbz]

defense is on diminishing returns, he might have mispoken.. once defense capped your better off shooting for single stats, as you already have a huge DR on defense, it helps but not all that much.

Dodge is not preferable, just on the diminishing return scales it gives the best gain per point once defense capped, up to a certain percentage. People that have shields should be stacking block rating anyways.

[Bigfish]

Great. Well, I guess it doesn't matter, since you can't really be selective with gear anyway. Guess its good to know the curves are so screwed it doesn't really matter what you gear for. Just slap on more item points and don't dump everything in to one. Lovely. So much for dynamic gear appropriation. Wonder how long before everything gets reduced to Tank/DPS/Healer rating.

[puppychow]

Are you sure defense is on diminishing returns? My understanding is that it is not, and neither is block rating. Dodge and parry both are however, but you need to start hitting 40% or so in either before the DR really kicks in hard (ie takes a ton of points to move up 1%)

Either way stacking up too much avoidance/mitigation is bad, a tank with 20k hp and 80% avoidance is still going to die on bad luck streaks. Once I'm past 20/20/20 dodge/parry/block, and obviously 540 defense, I like to focus mostly on HP. I'll still gem dodge/stam to match colors if the bonus is great, but generally gem and enchant for stam/defense combos. I'm currently at 29.2k hp, 25.5k AC, 22.5% dodge, 20% parry, 19% block on my prot pally, unbuffed - its nice hitting 36k or so raid buffed :)

A feral druid I pug'd 2 drake OS with had 54k hp buffed, omg! You pretty much need a feral MT for 3 drakes I've heard. Really suprised you don't see more feral druid tanks, they seem the beefiest - maybe AOE tanking issues?

[Iceorbz]

defense is most certainly on DR, only block rating is not.. Hence alot of guys will stack BR vs. other stats

[Hachoo]

Takes more points of parry to equal one percent compared to 1% dodge.. ie like lets say to get 16-17% parry you need 60 parry rating, dodge 16-17% may only take like 40 dodge rating.

/sigh, right, but that wasn't the issue. 39 points in dodge increases your dodge by 1%. 41 points in Defense increases Dodge/Parry/Miss by 1%. Hachoo was saying 1% dodge is fundamentaly better than 1% Dodge/Parry/Miss. I don't see why dodge is any more or less prefferable than miss or parry.Its more preferable right now because of parry haste. Also I remember reading in multiple places that you can dodge attacks that aren't made with a weapon, but you can't parry attacks that aren't made with a weapon, though I'm not entirely sure what that might pertain to in-game.

[Los]

defense is most certainly on DR, only block rating is not.. Hence alot of guys will stack BR vs. other statsBlock rating is cheap stats wise, but it also has its limitations because it gets pushed of the table before the other. For an interesting read;

http://honorscode.blogspot.com/2008/11/your-captains-crit-block-hit-and.html



Block Cap

After you are Uncrittable, you should start working towards the The Block Cap. This may be a new concept for Paladin tanks, but it really isn't. The Block Cap is what used to be known as Uncrushable, i.e. a combined Miss, Parry, Dodge, and Block of 102.5%. Once you reach that point, any additional Block Rating falls off the table. You are 'capped' on the amount of Block you can have. It should be noted that since Holy Shield was changed to have its duration be longer than it's cooldown, it is now safe to assume 100% uptime on Holy Shield when calculating your Block Cap, however, don't make the mistake a certain Paladin I know (who shall remain nameless) made and continue to count Holy Shield at 35% unless you plan on continuing to wear the Libram of Repentance. Holy Shield is only 30%.

Being at the Block Cap is very helpful because it means that every unavoided attack from the Boss will be a Block. Paladins are the only class now that can stay Block Capped 100% of the time. Each Block takes off damage equal to your Block Value. If the Boss hits for 9000, and you have 900 Block Value (not unreasonable), you effectively shave off 10% of the damage each and every hit. That can add up to a huge amount of damage reduction over the course of the fight.

It also provides Paladins with the most predictable damage intake, and makes Paladins the easiest tank to heal.

So you can't be Crit, and every incoming attack is a Block at the worse case, what's next?