New computer has been purchased - specs, rationale, and thanks

[Owltoid]

Thank you to everyone who has helped me over the past week. I have thoroughly read every response and appreciated the feedback. Probably the biggest piece of advice that I ignored was from Freddie (Hotkeynet) and I could come to regret it in a year.

Here are the specs:

Purchased on www.buyxg.com

CoolerMaster Centurion 590 RC-590 Mid-Tower
-I tried to get the Antec P182 as I believe it looks better, but unfortunately you have to select from what is available on buyxg.com. I could have tried to build the system myself, but I didn't see any cost savings when pricing components on newegg.com and I'd rather have buyxg.com's 1-year warranty.

650 Watts Power Supply (Corsair CMPSU-650TX - Quad SLI Ready)
-I could have stuck with the default 420W power supply but after reading the thread I thought namebrand was important in this category. Though I don't think I'll need all 650, I also don't think it's total overkill.

Asetek Liquid CPU Cooling System (Extreme Cooling Performance + Extreme Silent at 20dBA)
-This was probably overkill and possibly a waste of money. However, hopefully it will ensure that my rig stays cool and at a cost of $65 I get the geek factor of having water cooling (though I understand this is a bastardization form of true water cooling)

Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-920 2.66 GHz 8M L3 Cache LGA1366
-Here is where I ignored Freddie's advice. Though I understand a significantly cheaper processor+mobo, with not significant reduction in performance, could be bought, I went with the i7 architecture because of the amount of RAM it can hold. With 12GB currently, and upgradeable to 24GB, I believe that my RAM needs will be met for at least 4-5 years before becoming much less than ideal. Also, and I may be incorrect with this thought process, but since i7 is new I'm hoping that right before they transition to a new architecture I can get the latest version. If that type of upgrade is possible, then my processor needs will be met for a long time (with upgrade in a few years).

MSI X58 Platinum Intel X58 Chipset SLI/CrossFireX Mainboard Triple-Channel DDR3/1600 SATA RAID w/ eSATA,Dual GbLAN,USB2.0,IEEE1394a,&7.1Audio
-I probably should have done more comparisons and asked more questions on my selection of the motherboard. However, between this mobo and the ASUS, Newegg had negative reviews on the ASUS which left the MSI the winner. Hopefully the mobo will be decent for at least a few years and I didn't skip any glaring bottleneck.

12GB (2GBx6) DDR3/1600MHz Triple Channel Memory Module (Corsair)
-When I priced the differential between ordering 6GB and upgrading through Newegg, it turned out that there weren't any cost savings and I'd rather have buyxg.com do it from the start. I'm new to this, but I believe Corsair has a decent reputation and the RAM should be of good quality.

NVIDIA GeForce GTX 260 896MB 16X PCI Express
-I'm pretty unhappy to find out that it doesn't have a standard HDMI output and that I'll need to find a converter (which should be extremely easy) but otherwise it seemed like this card should handle 5 WoWs and be good for a few years. I'm a bit concerned with it being 896MB instead of 1G+ but since I don't really know what those numbers mean then I hope I can't tell the difference :)

320GB SATA-II 3.0Gb/s 16MB Cache 7200RPM Hard Drive
-With only a 64GB main drive this will hold all the music, movies, data files, etc. I really don't download that much and I doubt I'll fill the 320GB. However, since this computer is costing a pretty penny, I thought I should explore using it as my media center and really trying to utilize its capabilities. I already play WoW in my living room (two large screen HDs side-by-side, one for TV, one for video games) and I would love to figure out a good way to remove cable and replace with an internet/computer solution.

Creative Labs SB Audigy SE
-I really don't care about sound since usually I have to be talking with the g/f or "watching" TV while I play video game... for some reason me sitting right next to her isn't quality time if I have my headset on, but I digress. This is one of the cheaper upgrade options, but I wanted to take the sound processing off my mobo. I'm hopeful this will fill all my sound needs, which aren't extensive.

600Watts PMPO Subwoofer Stereo Speakers
-I could have removed them and saved 2 bucks, so I just kept them

Microsoft(R) Windows Vista(TM) Home Basic w/ Service Pack 1
-I was pleasantly surprised to find out Vista was only $89. I spoke with buyxg.com (they called to confirm everything and go over my special requests) and they said they don't put any bloatware on the system. Unfortunately Vista comes with a trial version of Office, but that will be the first thing I remove. This was great news compared to my ASUS gaming laptop which seemed to be filled to the teeth with extra programs.

Sony 20x Double Layer Dual Format DVD+-R/+-RW + CD-R/RW Drive
-I didn't get a Blueray player because I don't really buy movies. If anything I'll just download them so I thought I'd save some money.

Professional Wiring for All WIRINGs Inside The System Chasis with High Performance Thermal Compound on CPU
-I don't really know what this means but for $19 they got me on it... can't hurt (I hope!)

FREE! 4GB USB 2.0 Portable Flash Drive
-It's free, why would I say no?

Standard Warranty: 1-Year Limited Warranty Plus Life-Time Technical Support
-It's included and I do have a little piece of mind knowing that someone who knows what they're doing is putting this together. When I talked with the guy from buyxg.com he said that they build over 120 units a day, so I doubt they'll be scratching their heads putting together my system.

And all this can be yours for the price of between 1750-1800 (including shipping, no taxes since out of state)!

Thanks for the help! It ended up being more expensive than originally expected, but with selling my laptop for $500 I'm only out 1250-1300... still hurts, but hopefully this rig will be good for at least 3-4 years.

[Freddie]

Probably the biggest piece of advice that I ignored was from Freddie (Hotkeynet) and I could come to regret it in a year.
I think you'll feel fine. You made good choices and $1800 isn't that much more than what I suggested considering that you're getting more RAM and it's being built for you. I didn't know you wanted more than 16 GB. That's a reason for going with i7 that I didn't take into account. My way isn't necessarily better -- it's just a different choice. My way you buy a new PC every two years and spend less each time. Your way you rely on the computer longer and spend more each time. Both ways have advantages but if you wanted 24 GB, that settles it. Don't worry. :)


-I could have stuck with the default 420W power supply but after reading the thread I thought namebrand was important in this category. Though I don't think I'll need all 650, I also don't think it's total overkill.
Good choice. Quality probably varies more with power supplies than any other component, and Corsair is great. 650 watts is fine.


With 12GB currently, and upgradeable to 24GB, I believe that my RAM needs will be met for at least 4-5 years before becoming much less than ideal. Also, and I may be incorrect with this thought process, but since i7 is new I'm hoping that right before they transition to a new architecture I can get the latest version. If that type of upgrade is possible, then my processor needs will be met for a long time (with upgrade in a few years).
I think you're right on both points. Just yesterday Intel introduced the E8700 which will probably turn out to be one of the last (if not the very last) CPUs from the previous architecture. In the same way, two years from now, Intel will probably be introducing the last i7's built on a smaller 32 nm. And most likely you'll be able to plug it into this motherboard.


MSI X58 Platinum Intel X58 Chipset SLI/CrossFireX Mainboard Triple-Channel DDR3/1600 SATA RAID w/ eSATA,Dual GbLAN,USB2.0,IEEE1394a,&7.1Audio
-I probably should have done more comparisons and asked more questions on my selection of the motherboard. However, between this mobo and the ASUS, Newegg had negative reviews on the ASUS which left the MSI the winner. Hopefully the mobo will be decent for at least a few years and I didn't skip any glaring bottleneck.
I've had a lot of success relying on Newegg reviews. I've come to place a lot of trust in them (when there are a lot of them for a given product).


I'm a bit concerned with it being 896MB instead of 1G+ but since I don't really know what those numbers mean then I hope I can't tell the difference :)
1 GB means 1024 MB so the difference is 1024 - 896 = 128. If you ran a lot of benchmarks like the review webs sites do, you'd notice that a similar card with the larger DRAM size would run certain games slightly faster. A lot of games wouldn't be affected at all. But since you won't be running benchmarks you won't notice anything. :)

[Bovidae]

Nice machine. I don't think you need to defend yourself on choosing an I7 over a Core, Congrats.

[jettzypher]

i dont want to sound like an ass, but you bought and paid for alot of things that you either dont know what it is, dont understand, or have expressed that you really have no use for. why? it could be a decent system, but you spent alot of money on unnecessary hardward that youre not gonna use for awhile if at all (extra sound card, excessive amount of ram, and water cooling for example). just food for thought...

[Jafula]

However, between this mobo and the ASUS, Newegg had negative reviews on the ASUS which left the MSI the winner.<rant>

I have had nothing but trouble with my recent ASUS purchases. IT took 6 months! before ASUS released a BIOS for my Striker II Extreme motherboard that meant it did not crash every 10 minutes. I do not appreciate being a beta tester for supposedly retail ready products.

My ASUS Nvidia 8800GT graphics card comes with one big fan and a missing fan controller chip. Hey, guess what, cannot control the fan speed from software. Sucks. My fault for not doing enough research; but ASUS are never getting any more of my money.

</rant>

Sounds like you have got yourself a machine that will last you a long while. I hope it treats you well :).

[Owltoid]

i dont want to sound like an ass, but you bought and paid for alot of things that you either dont know what it is, dont understand, or have expressed that you really have no use for. why? it could be a decent system, but you spent alot of money on unnecessary hardward that youre not gonna use for awhile if at all (extra sound card, excessive amount of ram, and water cooling for example). just food for thought...

I agree, a little bit. The water cooling ($65) was excessive. The sound card ($30) was recommended so that it eases the load on the processor (maybe could be called excessive). I'm hoping to make my computer more of my media center for my living room and move away from cable TV so I thought the sound card could come in handy. The two of those add up to a whopping $95.

As far as the ram, many have posted that 8 GB is recommended for smooth performance. Since I wanted this computer to be good for quite a few years, I went with the i7 architecture which gave me a choice of 6GB, 12GB, or 24GB (24 isn't really available yet). I wanted to ensure that things ran smoothly and after reading some posts it seemed that 6GB could be pushing it for 5-boxing. I'm running one client on my laptop as I write this post and it's using over 1GB of RAM, so I don't think there is a ton of buffer room with 6GB. I went with the 12GB.

Could I run 5 accounts on a less expensive machine? Absolutely.
Do I think this machine will be scalable and useable for the next 5 years? Yup.
Where there some excessive choices? Yeah, the water cooling, but otherwise it was a decision between higher initial investment versus smaller multiple investments over time (as Freddie mentioned).

[Freddie]

i dont want to sound like an ass, but you bought and paid for alot of things that you either dont know what it is, dont understand, or have expressed that you really have no use for. why? it could be a decent system, but you spent alot of money on unnecessary hardward that youre not gonna use for awhile if at all (extra sound card, excessive amount of ram, and water cooling for example). just food for thought...
I don't think he did that. Item by item:

Case: pretty typical gamer case

Power supply: this is the smallest first-tier mfg'd power supply available from his builder, so actually he picked the cheapest one.

Water cooling: cheap feature he threw in for fun, and most likely it will lower temperatures a little although probably not very much. Fun is a rational reason to buy something.

CPU: he wanted i7 for perfectly rational reasons, and this is the cheapest i7, so actually he picked the cheap one.

Motherboard: All i7 motherboards are expensive now because they are new and selling in small quantities. He picked this one on the basis of Newegg reviews which (in my experience) is a pretty good way to pick things.

12 GB ram: It may sound like too much but a couple of years ago, 4 GB's sounded like too much. I've been buying PC's since 1983. Back then 1 MB sounded like too much. I guarantee you that during the life of this machine, 12 GB will seem like too little. Plus keep in mind that under Vista and Windows 7, all ram gets used even now for preloading. Maybe you think he could have bought 6 GB now and the rest later when DDR3 prices fall, but since he wants 24 GB eventuallly, he needed to buy 12 GB now to avoid throwing away DIMMs later. And as for DDR3 prices falling, I just checked his builder's prices. He paid $150 for the additional 6 GB. That's pretty cheap . Even if he waits till next year when DDR3 prices fall, how much will he save on that 6 GB? $50? But that $50 *is* buying him something now -- the use of that RAM during the next year -- because in fact Vista and Windows 7 use RAM for preloading. Plus there are people here who say i7 benefits from more than 6 GB with 5 WoWs. I don't have an i7 nor do I play 5 WoWs so I don't know, but it makes sense to listen to them and apply their advice.

Video card: This is a solid choice. High powered but not far out on the diminishing returns curve. He didn't do anything extreme like buy two 260's in SLI or anything like that.

Hard drive: If anything he was too frugal here. Almost everyone here would have picked a bigger one or more of them.

Sound card: Supposedly they have some advantages over onboard sound. I'm not sure what they are myself. In a case like this, where the item is very cheap, I often do the same thing Owltoid did -- buy the thing without being sure -- because my time has a money value and it would cost more to research the item than to simply buy the thing.

Speakers: they came practically for free with the system

Vista BASIC: for goodness sake, he got the dirt cheap version! How many people here would skimp on Vista and get the version without Aero? Owltoid is actually the opposite of what you say -- he's a miser! :)

DVD: He got the cheap choice.

Professional wiring: Okay, at last, $19 for something that might really be useless. But he trusts the company (as I do also after reading their site) and since I trust the company, I'd be willing to bet $19 that this wiring is really better than their regular wiring. It probably has more cable ties and they probably take more time to tuck cables behind things. I would pay $19 for that also, and I'd also be willing to pay it without being certain, on the basis I described.

[Owltoid]

Thanks for the support Freddie :thumbsup:

Out of curiousity, since you looked at www.buyxg.com, what did you think of their prices in general? Knowing my rig, did you see anything that stood out as overly expensive? I understand that they could use cheaper builds of some things, like the video card which doesn't give the black edition option.

Regarding the case, i really wasn't excited about that one, but out of their selection I disliked that one the least :)

Regarding Vista basic, I didn't do my research. Other than Aero, are there other differences between Basic and Premium? After reading other threads some mentioned turning off Aero to increase performance and I was planning on doing that anyway. However, what I don't know is if that's the only difference between the two or if there are performance advantages to getting the Premium (and disabling Aero) versus just getting Basic.

[Freddie]

Regarding Vista basic, I didn't do my research. Other than Aero, are there other differences between Basic and Premium?
Doh! I forgot. Vista Basic is limited to 8 GB of RAM. But here's a crazy idea. Use the Windows 7 beta instead of buying Vista. It's free now while it's in beta and then you can buy it when it's released. If you're tempted to buy Vista Premium now, note on the following chart that Vista Premium is limited to 16 GB.

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa366778.aspx#physical_memory_limits_windows_vista

As for other differences:

http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windows-vista/compare-editions/default.aspx


Out of curiousity, since you looked at www.buyxg.com, what did you think of their prices in general? Knowing my rig, did you see anything that stood out as overly expensive? I understand that they could use cheaper builds of some things, like the video card which doesn't give the black edition option.
I think the only way to know is look up the items on Newegg and compare. Which you did, right? So you know better than me. I don't know what the black edition is.

[Owltoid]

Wow, Freddie, thanks a ton for being here! I had no idea that there was that limit on Vista Basic (or Premium)... I'll definitely have to either call and get my order changed to Vista Premium (shouldn't be an issue) or figure out how to avoid the OS and instead get Windows 7 beta.

As you mentioned, that link verified that Basic is indeed limited to 8GB and Premium to 16GB. I can't thank you enough!

[Freddie]

You're welcome! Microsoft doesn't do much to publicize these limits. I think there are also limits on the number of network connections.

If you go with the beta, you should make sure it will be continuously available. I just tossed the idea out without checking.

[Owltoid]

Just got off the phone with www.buyxg.com and man, those guys are great. The guy was surprised to hear that different versions of Vista support different levels of RAM, but he was thankful and said he's going to pass the word around and check other's configs. I really like that company because I know they check everything for capatibility and this just may be a case of nobody knowing (I mean I can't imagine they'd hide the knowledge that Vista Basic only handles 8GB of RAM just to sell more RAM... the upgrade to Premium is only 14 bucks and not worth them hiding it for their reputation).

Long story short I am getting the computer w/o an OS and I'm going to roll the dice with Windows 7. It's risky, but it saves my $105 (difference between Vista Premium and no OS). They were willing to remove the charge and gave me no problems at all.

[Freddie]

Woot you're a daredevil! :)

They sound excellent. I'm sure they didn't know. I imagine that this issue almost never comes up because Vista Basic and 8+ GB almost never get bought for the same PC.

By the way, I was about to say in the other thread -- but I'll say it here instead -- there's no way Windows 7's limits will be smaller than Vista's. So you're guaranteed that the most expensive home edition will handle at least 128 GB, because that's how much Vista Ultimate handles.

[suicidesspyder]

Yo owl one day when you get it you need to drop a line and show me in person how well it works since im only like 5-10 mins at the most away from you. Think big ass etna building i am near there. I wanna see this work in person before i would decide to get a new comp. not make the same mistake twice and getting something i thought was good and not.

[Owltoid]

Heh, sounds like a plan!

[-silencer-]

The choices are fine, but I've read enough reviews (not idiot-user reviews on newegg, but actual professional hardware tech reviews) on so many x58 boards, MSI's included, having trouble remaining stable on 12GB of memory. That's the only decision that may hurt. That's why I like the Asus Rampage 2 Extreme & 12GB Corsair DDR3-1600C5.. Running perfectly stable on 12GB memory at 1600MHz.. higher than specified (1333MHz) without issue. Many boards have trouble running 12GB faster than 1066MHz.

[-silencer-]

Long story short I am getting the computer w/o an OS and I'm going to roll the dice with Windows 7. It's risky, but it saves my $105 (difference between Vista Premium and no OS). They were willing to remove the charge and gave me no problems at all.
You are aware you won't have a computer from August to Win 7's release in early 2010 right? The Win 7 beta will expire in August, at which point you'll have to find an OS. Just get Vista now and dual-boot with Win 7 if you want to save the hassle. (Oh, and don't use MP3's on a network hooked up to Win 7, unless they've fixed this issue.. Win 7 was removing the first few seconds of ALL MP3s that contained meta-data on the *network* connected to a Win 7 machine.)

[Owltoid]

That's unfortunate news about the mobo being unstable with 12GB, but at this point it's too late to change and I'm going to have to cross my fingers and hope it works out :)

Regarding Windows 7, I realize there is a significant chance it will not be released by the time the beta is up. I'm hoping it is, but if not then I'll have to buy a copy of Vista when the beta is nearing its end.

[Freddie]

The choices are fine, but I've read enough reviews (not idiot-user reviews on newegg, but actual professional hardware tech reviews) on so many x58 boards, MSI's included, having trouble remaining stable on 12GB of memory.
Your knowledge is enormously valuable, and I wish I had known what you know to warn Owltoid in time. It's a lucky thing having you on this board.

But I want to defend the "idiot-user reviews on newegg." They are good for revealing certain kinds of facts but not others. They have to be read with discretion.

One of the things they are good at revealing is a product's inability to do something it's advertised to do. Ordinary customers notice this kind of thing easily. (Of course they often make mistakes about this so their complaints have to be investigated further. But they are good at ringing warning bells.)

That's the kind of problem we have here. So why did the Newegg reviews fail in this case? (If they did, I didn't read them.) Probably because these boards aren't selling in large numbers yet and because relatively few people are installing 12 GB in them.

If this had happened next year, when far more reviews will exist and far more people will have installed 12 GB of RAM, I think the Newegg reviews would have revealed this problem.

[muffe]

Antec and Cooler Master make some great cases you can't go wrong with either.

That's a classic power supply, solid and will last a long time. I think it's always good to a little headroom with power. You don't want to just barely make your power requirements. Plus if you upgrade hardware that has more power requirements, your headroom will help spare you from upgrading to another power supply in the future.

About the liquid cooling, waste is probably one of the most misused words in the English language. You didn't waste money. You used it. If you didn't buy something with that money and had it stacked up in a vault until you died, then it would have went to waste. Money not spent is money wasted, you can't take money to the grave. I have no idea what this cooling system is but you shouldn't feel bad about investment.

I've heard the asus forums are on fire right now about their rampage board having problems. You made a good move to avoid a potential problem. Even though you're covered with warranty service, the easiest way to solve a problem is not to have a problem.

Warranty is always great. I would not get sucked into a 5 year warranty or longer though. After 5 years computer parts need replacing anyways because they become obsolete so quickly. If something goes after 5 years, you got it's "lifetime" out of the product, and it maybe time for a whole new build/rebuild.

Grats on your system! Enjoy it.

[Owltoid]

Sorry for the OS drama, but I called them back and asked them to install Vista Premium. $105 later but with peace of mind. Now watch later today it is announced retail Windows 7 is available in June 2009 :cursing:

[-silencer-]

Sorry for the OS drama, but I called them back and asked them to install Vista Premium. $105 later but with peace of mind. Now watch later today it is announced retail Windows 7 is available in June 2009 :cursing:
That definitely WON'T happen. MS learned their lesson from releasing Vista early.. if Win7 isn't fully polished upon release, I'd be shocked. If anything, they'll try to make the Holiday season, but I'd bet the odds are greater than 50:50 that it gets delayed to mid-2010. Mid-2009 isn't happening, so you've got nothing to worry about.. I've completely enjoyed Vista on my new machine.

[Freddie]

I like Vista too. I dual-boot back and forth between XP and Vista all day on my main machine, and I much prefer when I'm in Vista.

But maybe I'm weird -- I like UAC. I'm hoping there will be a completely un-nerfed setting for it in Windows 7.

[-silencer-]

Your knowledge is enormously valuable, and I wish I had known what you know to warn Owltoid in time. It's a lucky thing having you on this board.

But I want to defend the "idiot-user reviews on newegg." They are good for revealing certain kinds of facts but not others. They have to be read with discretion.

One of the things they are good at revealing is a product's inability to do something it's advertised to do. Ordinary customers notice this kind of thing easily. (Of course they often make mistakes about this so their complaints have to be investigated further. But they are good at ringing warning bells.)

That's the kind of problem we have here. So why did the Newegg reviews fail in this case? (If they did, I didn't read them.) Probably because these boards aren't selling in large numbers yet and because relatively few people are installing 12 GB in them.

If this had happened next year, when far more reviews will exist and far more people will have installed 12 GB of RAM, I think the Newegg reviews would have revealed this problem.
Thanks..
I love Newegg, but it's unfortunate that they don't have staff reviewing the reviews properly. I can't tell you how many times I see elaborate posts by people claiming to have "high" tech knowledge posting comments that are flatly wrong. (The 32-bit vs 64-bit memory issue is a BIG one.) For every 1 valuable review on Newegg, there are dozens that have to be completely ignored.. which is why I thoroughly research a product on professional reveiwer sites first - anandtech.com, xbitlabs.com, tomshardware.com, silentpcreview.com are some of my favorites, and forums with good info include hardforum.com, forums.extremeoverclocking.com, and overclockers.com. I go to the review sites to get generally good info on specific products, then search forums for detailed info on who's used specific components.

Anandtech.com has an article from Nov/Dec comparing X58 boards, and they had problems with MSI's X58 Eclipse even running well on 12GB memory (even though MSI said it was supported). Anandtech worked very hard with manufacturers to get them to push newer BIOS out, so hopefully many of those issues have been fixed. At any rate, if this machine is being built by someone else, they should notice that it's not working properly if the BIOS and 12GB are having issues. The manufacturer's comments are that no gamer should use 12GB, since generally the more memory you put in a machine, the slower you can overclock it. While true, there are certain aspects of gaming where more memory helps over pure memory speed - like multiboxing.

[Owltoid]

Thanks for your help, Silencer. I read a few articles on Anandtech regarding the X58 motherboards. It seems in early December everything was coming out crap and the reviews were pretty awful. However, good news is that I saw a review dated near the end of December that mentioned the RAM problems had been 98% solved. I have no idea if I'm going to get a "good" mobo, but at least buyxg.com should do some thorough testing beforehand. Once the new rig arrives I may ask for advice on checking my components to see if everything is working properly (i.e. is it recognizing all 12GB and utilitzing them). At least I know that it has an OS coming... once you mentioned mobo problems I thought that was the last straw and I wanted to get it, turn it on, and if something was wrong immediately call them for support. If I had to install my own OS then I wouldn't know if I screwed something up or if they did.

[jettzypher]

i didnt say every choice made was bad. i agree that many things he bought was a great choice. still doesnt deny the fact that some things are unnecessary. /point

[Owltoid]

The new computer arrived and I have played on it for one night. Here are a few of my observations:

1.) The OS was installed on the SSD and made the default drive. Although there wasn't any bloatware, and Office 2007 was promptly uninstalled, a large portion of the 64GB was already used. After installing WoW, I have 20GB left... I'm a bit shocked and unsure what is taking up so much space.

2.) Boot-up time is fast, but nothing mind blowing. WoW loads just as fast, but in cities there isn't that extra 2 min trying to load 5 clients at once. I have only tested this in Shat and will test in Dalaran this weekend. Other simple applications, such as internet browsing, seem to be much faster, but that could be because I'm used to my system struggling with WoW while browsing the internet.

3.) Shutting down the computer seems to take a much longer time than I'm used to. I'm not sure why or if there is a tweak I need to do. I have told the computer to not use a pagefile on the SSD, but to use one on the data drive. Defrag, prefetch, and superfetch is turned off. I have not messed with the Windows backup because I'm not sure what that really does. Also, I turned off hibernation mode which did seem to free space on my small SSD.

4.) I tried all video settings in Shat on high and it was pretty laggy. Please note that this is before I turned the maxfpsbk to 10, so the computer may have really been straining to get maximum FPS out of all clients. Although I should have tested it incrementally, instead I turned the settings to good (75%) and set my background FPS to 10. It works extremely smoothly and I haven't seen any lag since. It's amazing how much of the game I was missing playing on the lowest video settings (especially view distance). Note that I play at 1360x768 settings since I'm sitting so far back from my TV... many wouldn't dream of playing at that low of resolution so it may not be an accurate measure.

5.) While I was doing my initial testing in Shat (on high video settings) I took a look at the resource monitor. Eight processors are shown and the first two out of the eight were at full utilization while the other 6 looked low (under 25%). There were some reponses about setting the affinity in the other thread I commented on, but I want to do some research into hyperthreading and get more input before I mess with the default settings.

6.) The computer is very quiet. Between the water cooling and the SSD it's very hard to hear it over my laptop or regular noise. The biggest difference in noise is my keyboard which apparently isn't the quiet key type like my laptop.

7.) I used to experience a little bit of problem with summoning my treants. I believe this is due to HKN trying to quickly switch between each window and my computer just not being able to handle it. That problem is gone and the treants summon smoothly... it's wonderful. That's probably my favorite aspect of the new computer and I can't wait to get all 5 of my moonkins going at once. However, mouseover healing still seems to be buggy and I'm wondering what's going on. I'm going to chat with Freddie about it and hopefully get a system that works nearly 100% of the time.


I'm happy with my system and think that it will run 5 clients at enjoyable video settings without much problem. I'm getting a bit burned out on leveling which is coming at an unfortunate time... pally tanks are so damn boring that it's like work to quest, but I'm sick of running BC instances. I may just say screw it and start running 5 druids... hopefully one as a tank and one as a healer is doable in the heroic world. Although I have yet to go to Dalaran, so far RAM isn't even close to an issue. When my computer was laggy due to the high settings and not setting maximum background FPS, the used RAM was still less than 6GB. That may change when I go to Dalaran, but I can't imagine it getting anywhere near 12GB. Really I think the current bottleneck is figuring out to get all the processors working at once instead of beating the hell out of one core.

[Memn]

Thanks for keeping us up to date on your progress Owl. As far as the affinity goes, I recomment just setting each window to all 8 cores. This lets windows decide how to run each. By default. Blizz just sets each instance to the first two cores.

In KeyClone, you would set the affinity mask to FF in keyclone.ini.

You can also try setting the affinity mask to 255 in wow's configuration file.

You can manually set the affinity by right clicking on each wow instance in Task Manager and selecting the option to set the processor affinity - then selecting all cores.

[Freddie]

Eight processors are shown and the first two out of the eight were at full utilization while the other 6 looked low (under 25%).
That's a picture of what Memn described in words. By default, WoW restricts itself to the first two cores, so all five WoW instances are running to full capacity on just those two cores and bottlenecking. Meanwhile the other six cores have practically nothing to do. It's sort of like driving a Ferrari with the pedal to the floor, but with most of the spark plugs disconnected.

This default setting (which is programmed deliberately by Blizzard) is horrible. The only way you could invent a worse setting would be to restrict all your WoWs to one core. I agree with Memn that the best thing you can do right now is set every WoW to run on all eight cores. That will be pretty close to optimal because (like Memn says) it gives maximum latitude to the operating system's thread scheduler to optimize things. Later if you want you can experiment and fine tune it.

If you choose to set your affinity that way, the HotkeyNet command (for each window) is


<SetAffinity all>

[Owltoid]

Thanks, Freddie, it works like a charm! Every once in awhile one of the eight processors will get to 90%, but it's definitely load balancing on all cores and working very smoothly.

On another note, I again tested turning my video settings to maximum on all clients. Once again I got massive lag. However, by turning the settings to "good" (about 75%) and still having maximum view distance, there is hardly any lag with 3 toons in Dalaran and 2 toons in Shat (haven't tried all 5 in Dalaran yet). I think it could be my video card just not being able to handle 5x high settings... the CPU looks fine, RAM looks fine, but the FPS drops below 5 when trying to move around in Dalaran with 5 accounts running.

Thanks again to everyone for their help. Slowly but surely everything is getting tweaked. The only outstanding issue is whether to disable the recovery and why there is such a long shut-down time.