Best PvP 5 Box Combo? Poll!

[Xzin]

Well - what is the best 5 box option? This is entirely subjective - there really is no *RIGHT* answer. Which one would you make if you could or if you are? To make it a bit better, lets narrow it down to PvP only. Forget PvE (you can PvE with nearly any class combo). How effective you will be is another story but it is workable.

So - what combo would you vote for?

I tried to only include "viable" combinations here. There may be some that I left out that are workable. Several of these are combinations that I would never actually consider for various reasons

LOL @ You have tried to enter too many poll options.

[Flight]

Getting lots of views, but not many votes. Suspect this is because not many folks have the chance to try out teams of 5. What we are crying out for is write ups on 5 team strengths weaknesses and synergies. Lack of this is a huge problem for me at the moment; got my setup finished today and for the life of me can't decide what team to go with :)

[Xzin]

Use the PTR, Luke - use the PTR.

(Use the Public Test Realms - when they are up - to test your mix of 5 classes).

That's how I tested locks (with great success)and 4 warrior 1 shammy and decided they were not for me :)

[notole]

I voted for the 5 class option.

I really enjoy my warrior, priest, mageX2 and warlock group. Shackle, Sheep, Seduce and Banish makes almost every mob grouping simple. I do have some problems with some of the bosses scripted events, but thats just a matter of learning the timing and strats. An example would be Capacitus in Mechanar, trying to avoid the bombs while watching his colors is very trying. I'm still working on gearing up and learning the zones. My ultimate goal is to be able to do heroics "solo".

Thats just for PVE. For PVP I've contemplated working up 4 warlocks and a priest. Its a tough decision, warlocks or mages?

Start over? Bleh...

[Xzin]

Ehh maybe - I don't know if it makes sense to PvP with a holy trinity group.... WoW PvP is all about burst damage and dealing with micro level effects and counters. Not sure a "traditional" 5 box group would have the physical ability to pay attention to everything that is going on to excel.

But I can be wrong and I bet somebody is out there doing it.

I just have to think how hard it would be and how easier it would be to do it in other ways.

[notole]

I totally agree with you regarding PVP.

In fact just the other day, on my mage, I fought a 3 box frost mage group at SP. First time through they killed me with ae spam, but after that it was really easy to break them up. It has to be 10 times easier to kill my group then it was fighting them.

On a different note, I'd hate to try to tank any of the 70 dungeon bosses without a warrior, paly, druid tankish. So i guess it really depends on what you're planning on doing.

[Xzin]

Especially heroics, from what I hear.

I did alright with 5 cloth but we will have to see. 4 'locks might do pretty well though from what I understand. At least I have 4 squishy tanks and plenty of dots.

Heroics though.... probably not.

[Flight]

On a different note, I'd hate to try to tank any of the 70 dungeon bosses without a warrior, paly, druid tankish. So i guess it really depends on what you're planning on doing.

Think I am going to have to go Alliance for this reason; can't ignore already having a lvl 60 Warrior levelled up as well as 3 more 60's including a Priest.

[notole]

I hope your priest is a dwarf. It will cut down alot on the stance dancing you have to do, letting you concentrate on your 4 other chars.

Fear ward is the one and only thing I miss about going horde.

Edit: Or Drenai?

[Flight]

I'm pretty quickly coming to the conclusion that we need to totally distinguish between 3 areas of the game when we discuss best combo's, particularly 5 box.

i) PvP
ii) PvE regular mobs
iii) PvE elites/heroics and above


I'm making my present 5 set team for iii). As I've mentioned, I already have a 60 Priest, Warrior, Hunter and Rogue ready to swap in as necessary.

In arriving at my final 5 team choice, because I'm aiming for iii), I'm looking at three things :

i) tank capability
ii) recovery capability (rez)
iii) DPS (with an eye to controlling aggro due to it)

The team I've decided on is :

1) Pallie - easy aoe aggro/taunt, tanking and rez
2) Shammy : DPS, totem utility, healing
3,4,5) 3 x Warlocks

For regular mobs I'm certain this is no way the best choice or anywhere near it. Not the best for PvP but should be fun.

The diversity of the Warlock pets gives them the edge for me over Mages, though I'm still not totally sure I prefer them.

I was going to go 4 Warlocks/Mages, but Shaman self rez is hard to overlook for when a wipe happens.


Any advice. alternatives or opinions on anything I've said would be very much appreciated. :)

[Xzin]

What about 4 locks + mage and rely on jumper cables + soulstones?

Not very sexy though - plus healing would be.... well... almost impossible.
I would much rather have a priest over a shammy in that situation.

[notole]

I would also much rather have a priest over a shaman. 3xSoul Stones on the priest means you will probably never have to run back to an instance.

For a while, I was working on a paly, druid, affliction warlockX3 set up. Let me tell you, that party was insane. If the resto druid ever got agro, I could shift him to bear and start healing with the paly. The whole time the warlocks were just destroying groups of 4-5 mobs without even bothering with CC. This was dungeon crawling instances when they first become possible for the appropriate levels.

So if you need a back up healer, I would definately go priest or druid.

[Xzin]

I like the versatility a druid has but they wind up being good at a lot of things but master of none. I can't say if they are good enough but know that I did every non BC instance without even a leather wearing tank and only one healer.

I would imagine that a druid would be tough to play in a multibox setup - they need to take on different forms and coordinating that mid fight with everything else going on, battling for your attention might be too much.

You are pretty much limited to 3 things in combat. Healing, damage and other (moving around, dispelling, deciding on targets, etc). Adding - check what mode the druid is in, shift, remember what buttons are mapped to what, etc - might push you over the edge in terms of workability.

Now, 5 druids is something that I could see work with the right setup, the right macros and a ton of practice. Count me out of that though - but the ability to 5x stealth and heal and dps and tank depending on the encounter would be pretty amazing :)

At least, in theory.

[notole]

I dont know how a druid would do in 70 dungeons, only got mine to 43 I think. Its been a while.

Its really not that hard to shapeshift into what you need. I definately wasn't putting him into cat form. But shifting to bear, with whatver their enrage was called and swiping over and over isn't that tough. Shifting back and forth can all be macrod. I was doing this before the ease of the multiboxer, so its definately doable.

Its also nice to be able to shift to travel form and take off if things go bad!

One of the main reasons i picked that group, was because i wanted as many different classes at 70 as possible. Plus, I'm a firm believer in the holy trinity for pve. :)

[Xzin]

Druids can't rez though - so might want to '86 that idea for PvE. Unless you all get eng and jumper cables :)

Or REALLY enjoy running back multiple times on multiple characters.

[notole]

That is true.

So...

SS->druid,paly,warlock
druid rebirth->warlock
paly "rez"->warlock?

And just don't die but once every 30 mins! :P

[notole]

In all honesty though. Corpse runs in this game are so simple. I get peeved now if the run takes more then 5 minutes?!

Thats crazy! Back in the day of eq we had to run back to our corpse up hill for 3 hours while praying that each an every corpse would be found because you just idiotly (word?) came back to life in a group of kunark goblins. Shiver!

The worse thing in wow is having to find a vendor to repair your armor after the 10 death....

[Xzin]

Corpse runs are simple. Until you have to do them randomly on different characters because NONE of your characters can rez :)

Which means, you have to stop what you are doing, run back and reform when ANY character dies.

Not exactly that great. I guess you could try to battle rez but umm most wipes are exactly that. Wipes. No amount of battle rezzing is likely to help.

[Flight]

Did the thread title get changed with a PvP added or am I going nuts ? :)


Yes, just to be clear the only reason I am not running a Priest is because I already have one ready to swap in if needed at lvl 60. It is a Dwarf (/showluff Fear Ward) and its on the same account as the Shamm/2nd team spot.

Have to be honest, I am still a little unsure on the Shammy. Plus, while I raided a lot and played a lot its nearly two years since I played so I've forgotten a lot of stuff about some of the classes I didn't play - notably Shammy.


Corpse runs are fine most of the time, but my main aim for this team is running instances. The most likely spot to wipe is at bosses. Quite often there will be respawns through the instance - so its much better to be able to recover from a total team wipe at the boss.

Remind me on one point, an important one, mind you - to use a soulstone does the Warlock need to be up or can they be used to rez even after a total wipe ?


Anyways, in summary why use a Shammy, taking into account Priest isn't an option :

1) rez
2) self rez
3) totems help to top up heal voidwalkers, plus totems can buff voidwalkers and pallie for melee
4) secondary DPS

plus :

5) chain drops won't be wasted



Keep the debate going though PLEASE, theres a lot more to be said in the Shammy/Druid debate - I'm going on the vaguest memories of what they both bring to a group. I would love it if someone could outline what these two classes bring to a PvE instance party.

[notole]

In my opinion, I probably would not go with the shaman. I don't believe at 70 a shaman can be a primary healer. I could be wrong, but you have already stated that you have a priest ready to substitute so thats not an issue. You have the tank and healer coverered, quite well actually with your tank being a paladin.

Now the question regarding DPS. I'm a firm believer in simplicity. Filling your three dps slots with classes that have generally the same skills is quite abit easier then trying to manage a fight with many different timings. What i mean by this is, 3x times warlock, mage, hunter, even shaman will work well if they are on the same spec and all their casting is in sync. Setting up a warlock, hunter and shaman as your dpsers can be tough as they all have different timers for their spells and attacks.

I don't know the casting times on the shaman's shocks, but if they have the same casting time as say a mage's frostbolt, or scorch or even a warlocks shadowbolt. You could set up your controls and class skills to take full advantage of that. This will give you more control over exactly who you burn down and when you do it. An example of not have 3x a class is what I did with my 3 dpsers. I added a warlock later on after i had gotten to 70. I speced that warlock to destruction because it worked really well with the mage's frostbolts. Things like Firstblast and Shadowburn could be casted at the same time. Scorch and Searing pain worked well together. etc.. etc..

Keep in mind, this timing issue is really only relevent if you are using one input to control your dps. As a 5-boxer who tries to set up the "perfect" group you are going to work more for control and finesse. Where a 5-boxer of all the same class is about brute force and blowing their enemies up.

Corpse runs are not an issue with 3 warlocks. The soulstone cools down every 30 minutes. So you will be able to rez your priest every 10 minutes mid battle or after a wipe. After every wipe you will spend 2-3 minutes eating/drink and rebuffing anyways. The soulstone must be put on the priest before the priest or the warlock dies. But, it can be cast in combat as an oh crap gonna wipe last resort.

I'm sorry if I didn't really answer your question. I just don't know enough about shamans and why it would be worth having him. Regarding the chain mail, it is quite frustrating having so many chain and leather pieces not used. But having a high level enchanter in your set up really helps with gathering disenchants of all the bop items you won't be using.

[Xzin]

Yes, I added the PvP to clarify a bit. Your sanity is intact :)


Remind me on one point, an important one, mind you - to use a soulstone does the Warlock need to be up or can they be used to rez even after a total wipe ?

Soulstones can be summoned at any time at a cost of one shard. You can keep one in your inventory but it will go away upon logout. When you CAST it (use it) you consume it and it starts a 30 minute cooldown on the lock and applies the 30 minute buff to the recipient.

Soulstones are the ultimate wipe prevention tool. Just make sure you have one up, let the mobs path away and carry a few repair bots and you will never need to go to town. If you HAVE to, just hearthstone out and come back - but you will have to exit the instance to summon them back.

Also, they recently nerfed soulstones such that you can't cast them unless you are partied. No more "give the Zins all soulstones before they go do Ony and then log the warlocks off" :( Hehe.

As for casting times - don't forget that many talents reduce casting times. Mages and Warlocks have reasonable synergy - they have direct damage, crowd control, aoes, etc. Pallies and shamans on the other hand have almost none. So keep the timings of individual attacks in mine when you decide on your group. PvE is about finesse and controlling healing/dps/aggro/cc. PvP style PvE (like what I do) is burn everything down while staying alive long enough. Both methods have their place (I got to 60, didn't I) but all else equal, the measured and methodical method of a balanced PvE group SHOULD be far better prepared for level 60-70 content and theoretically, heroics.

[Morlife]

5 Shadow Priest would be interesting.

5x fear (imp fear for faster cooldown)
5x Silence
5x Blackout 20% stun x 5 = 100% stun
5x Vamp Embrace (Heal 125% of all shadow dmg to all members)
5x Vamp Touch(return 25% mana of all shadow dmg to all members)
5x Shield

39 yrd range on spells
Dispell as needed or Mass Dispell ( I think it's a diss, maybe holy)
MindFlay auto rotates characters so jumping beans don't make a diff.

[Xzin]

A few caveats - I like the 5 (or 3-4 shadow priest strategy) but keep in mind:

Fears have diminishing returns on players.

20% times 5 would not be 100% but on average it would be expected to proc nearly 100% of the time.

Shadow priests need to channel mind flay and to do so they need to be facing their target. If they take damage, it breaks it. Channeling breaks follow. Pressing the Mind Flay button while some are already casting would cancel the other casts (unless you setup the macro to somehow not cast if you are already casting).

Shields don't stack but could be reapplied instantly if you timed it right.

Renews do stack but healing is not possible (directly) while in Shadowform and shifting is mana intensive. No AoE healing (nova or otherwise) either.

Plus, once you hit 3 shadow priests, you are basically at infinite mana anyway.

What do you mean by: " MindFlay auto rotates characters so jumping beans don't make a diff."?

Shadow priests dots are easier to dispel and no unstable affliction (castable silence helps some though). Silence does have diminishing returns on players though.

If you do this - go undead shadow priest. Racial dots + WOTF = win.

[Morlife]

" What do you mean by: " MindFlay auto rotates characters so jumping beans don't make a diff."? "

When you start casting mindflay, if the target runs behind you, your charater automatically rotates to keep it facing you.
So if the player is jumping all over the place (like some do in PVP), mindflay keeps locked in with out you needing to do anything.
Like a geostationary orbit and your target is the satellite.

You are right, mindflay breaks if taking dmg. If you are shielded it doesn't break. This would be an issue.

Wow, the Dots would be great. Now that I think about it, you could
Put Vamp Embrace - SWP (Dot) + Vamp Touch (Dot) + Racial (Dot).
Then do the same to a 2nd target.
You would get healed 125% of shadow damage from each target, so 250% healing of all shadow dmg being done. If it's possible, do same on 3rd target for 375%.
Between that + fear + mind blast(1700dmg) + new insta cast spell(1000dmg) you probably wound't need mindflay.

I think there is a 5 point talent that allows shadow spells to be less resisted and harder to dispell, that stacks 5x on target too, need to check it.

[Yarddog]

You can include the conditions of channeling or nochanneling in a macro. I believe you can use this then to prevent already channeling toons from being interrupted.

[notole]

/use [nochanneling:Arcane Missiles] 13
/use [nochanneling:Arcane Missiles] 14
/cast [nochanneling:Arcane Missiles] Arcane Missiles

This is a macro I use for AM. I'm guessing it will work for Mind flay also.

[Auralis]

Im working on a paladin 2 mage 2 shaman group atm.. Normally I wouldnt go with this odd group but me and a friend already had level 50 shaman and we both wanted mages and since we needed a tank pally seems better for 5 boxing because of aoe threat. Im going to 4 box and hes going to play a mage so its going to be interesting. The goal is to have 1 shaman resto and the other elemental but still be capable of healing when needed.

[Xzin]

*cringe*

Interested to see how well that works.

[zachwlewis]

I think there is a 5 point talent that allows shadow spells to be less resisted and harder to dispell, that stacks 5x on target too, need to check it.
The talent you're thinking of it probably Shadow Weaving. It stacks five times on a target and each time increases shadow damage dealt by 2% (so with five, the enemy takes 10% more shadow damage).

I'm not sure if this talent makes separate stacks if multiple priests have it, but that would rock: 50% more shadow damage would be sick.

There is also a talent that prevents shadow resists (Shadow Mastery, or something like that) but it doesn't actually put a debuff on a target.

[shockbeta]

You can include the conditions of channeling or nochanneling in a macro. I believe you can use this then to prevent already channeling toons from being interrupted.

Think the syntax is this...

[channeling:<spell name>]

I haven't used it but as notole has stated

[nochanneling:<spell name>]

should work as well.

/cast [nochanneling:Mind Flay] Mind Flay

Should only cast mind flay if you're not already channeling it. I'm sure I'm late and everyone already realized this:p

[Xzin]

I never used arcane missiles nor mindflay (being a fire/holy build) so this is actually new to me and quite helpful. Of course, the fact that it was added in 2.0, which was when I stopped playing for a while probably contributed to this as well :)

Totally digging this and /focus. Both of which are VERY helpful for multiboxers.

[shockbeta]

/focus is very handy. wowwiki has a nice page for conditionals and macros.. good thing to check when deciding how to make your macros..

http://www.wowwiki.com/HOWTO:_Make_a_Macro

I haven't checked any but most of the conditions can probably be prefixed with no for opposite check.

[Xzin]

500 - Internal Server Error

Guess they are temporarily offline.

[shockbeta]

hmm nice... go here

http://www.wowwiki.com/Macros

then on the right click the "HOWTO: Make a Macro" link

not sure why direct link didn't work....

[Xzin]

It did, their server was temp down.

[And0]

5 Shadow Priest would be interesting.
...
...
5x Blackout 20% stun x 5 = 100% stun
...
...


I know this is an old thread, but I just wanted to help with the math on 5 x Blackout. Instead of a %20 chance of stunning, think of it as an %80 chance of doing nothing. If one hit does nothing, the next hit gets its %80 chance. Each hit follows suit.

So for five hits, the math would be:

%80 x %80 X %80 x %80 x %80 = %32.7 chance of all five attacks doing nothing

= %67.3 chance to stun

[Ughmahedhurtz]

Math ftw. Playing 4, blackout normally only procs about 40% of the time. Of course, that's 40% "per cast," so if I drop VT+VE+SW:P+MF, it damn near stuns every single pull. For non-elites, it is rare that they ever get to me just from dropping VT+VE+flay due to the combination of blackout procs and the slow effect of flay.

[Hippieman]

I voted for four mages and a priest, simply becasue of the massive ammounts of spec-comboes. You've got:

4xPompyro (meaning arcane+fire) mages + one holy/disc priest for massive AoE and burst damage.

4xFrost/elemental/frost+arcane mages + one holy/disc priest for massive CC and some epix damage

4xFire+arcane mages + one holy/disc priest for loads of burst damage and some half-decent CC.

Of course, you could always spec the priest shadow for a wee bit more damage, but the healing aspect really outdo the tiny DPS you'll be bothered to do anyways. Besides, post 2.3, holy mages have insane manaregen, thus making them even more efficient. I have one in my 2v2 team (warrior/priest) and the guy just never ever seem to OOM unless he chain-manaburns.

[Kyudo]

EDIT: Getting confused/deja vu too.... moved my post to the PvE poll here:http://www.dual-boxing.com/forums2/viewtopic.php?t=2160

For PvP I think I'd go for priest + 4x lock or priest and 4xmage.

[Vyndree]

In my opinion, I probably would not go with the shaman. I don't believe at 70 a shaman can be a primary healer.

In my opinion (sorry for digging this old post up), I probably would not go with commenting on the abilities of a class I know nothing about.

Shocks are instant cast with a 6 second global shock cooldown. Lightning bolt is the only spammable shaman spell.

Shaman are perfectly good primary healers. In 5 mans I earth shield the tank, lay a healing stream and some random buffing totems depending on my group makeup, and I melee with my healing mace. It can't get easier healing than that.

If you want flexible heals, including hots/direct heals/bubbles, go priest
If you want single target heals and excellent buffs, go paladin
If you want decent aoe heals and excellent buffs, go shaman
If you want excellent hots and decent single target heals, go druid

All 4 are very capable primary healers. Each has their own weaknesses. Choose whatever works best for your situation.