Vanguard:SOH personal impressions

[Korruptor]

I don't often see threads on Vanguard in general so I will share my experience with the game as it is now.

I've heard how much of a debacle the launch for this game was and that is truly unfortunate. The game has been out for a while and recieved a great deal of rework (some of which has upset some). I signed up for the trial under two of my old station accounts and for the trial it's only a 2.3GB foot print on my system.

As much as I despise SOE I have to say this is the game I've wanted since I've left EQ (Yes, yes, it was developed to be the true successor to Everquest by the original EQ developer Sigil). My opinion is that this game as it is, for me at least, is the modern EQ. The classes and the game-play really brings me back to the old EQ days that I long for.

I am currently only dual boxing this (due to the high resources required) and having a great time on the Xeth server. I will play it out for the full 14 days and try every class to see which dual-boxing combo's work for my style.

The macro ability of the game is good but the /follow ability is identical to old EQ in it's mechanics and doesn't corner as well as WoW.

[Korruptor]

Following up...

So far I'm still amazed with the game.

I've danced around with multiple classes both solo and dual boxing and have settled with a fun combo of Ranger+Necro both Dark Elves!!!! I've always wanted a Dark Elf ranger back in EQ so finally I'm able to scratch that age-old itch. Rangers are great ranged and melee DPS'rs and the necro's dots and nukes are mapped up with my ranger shots.

Send pet in to tank and punch the target from range. Both classes have lots of utility, pretty cool.

The fact you can use macro's to target corpse and loot makes alts far easier to manage!

[moosejaw]

Nice to hear that. I really liked EQ and I may check out the Vanguard trial. I think I looked at it during open beta and it was quite the mess. Pretty funny that the follow problems still exist.

[Elesar]

If it is the same as when I triple-boxed it, follow it a bit tricky at first, but once you are used to having to sweep your corners and pause for the followers, its not that bad. Due to that reason though, it is best to either avoid confined spaces, have a solo player that can scout corners and pull for you, or break follow and do it yourself.

I played for the first year the game was out, and recently tried to go back, but only one of my friends could get it to work on their system. Still has an issue with blocking out Ventrilo as well :\

This game is my MMO home, as it was my first, and I would love to see it fully compatible and with decent populations, but I'm afraid that is unlikely :S

[Korruptor]

The population is low in that there are few servers but there are quiet a few people going through the trial. The game isn't a ghost land.

Also, I found that converting your trial to a normal account merely costs the month sub fee of 14.99. There is no free month technically but you don't need to pay $40-$50 to "buy" the game. So I converted both my trials.

[Mooni]

Loved it. I usually played as a (whatever the wolf-type) Shaman or Blood Mage or Disciple. I imagine you could have a tank/healer combo that would actually do well there, though. (those duos could thrive in EQ)
Do you have sympathetic moves keybound or something? Or are you just ignoring them for now?
Actually I don't know if they'd even come up with a double ranged group like yours.

But wow, what a great game! Yeah the launch fell apart, and my computer really couldn't handle it. It's weird that they mention Vent problems - we were on vent all the time back at the beginning.

[moosejaw]

Thank you LOLARENA maintenance. I am downloading the Vanguard trial right now.

[Korruptor]

Do you have sympathetic moves keybound or something? Or are you just ignoring them for now?
Actually I don't know if they'd even come up with a double ranged group like yours.Kinda, for example, my ranger (main) casts his lightning arrow shot and the necro at the same time begins casting hit dot/snare. Then while the necro pet is tanking i fire my staple DD shot and the necro fires off bone spike.

The macro engine is very flexible. The same key for the necro's /assist and /cast "Bone Spike II" is also followed with /cast "Necropsy". So if the target is alive he nukes it, if it's dead he attempts to rip body parts off. The ranger forage ability is also paired under my loot script so if i'm not targetting a corpse i'm foraging with auto-loot (must disable the warning about looting BoP items for it to work).

On a ranger note... forage is great for making arrows. Once per gaming session all you need to do is select the arrow/bolt crafting pattern you want to make and then use a macro to /assemble each time you have the parts to make them.

I haven't spent a ton of time working on my spells/macro setup because the normal mobs ("oo"'s ) die too fast. Taking on the "ooo"'s will no doubt force me to rethink this since they are tough elite types.

Here is a great macro link:
http://www.vanguardsagaofhero.com/Vanguard-Hotkeys-for-Dummies

If you happen to decide on playing on the Xeth server send a tell to Diederich (that would be after the trial since trial accounts can't send tells).

Here are some additional links:
http://www.tentonhammer.com/vanguard/guides
http://www.vanguardsagaofhero.com/Vanguard-Guides ('http://www.tentonhammer.com/vanguard/guides')
[url]http://www.vgnecro.com/article/Must-Have-Necro-Macros

[Kromtor]

I'm done with WoW, I had tried Vanguard but it was a long time ago. What's the maximum group size? It sounds like it'd be fun to multibox especially for people who actually have multiple boxes =)

[Korruptor]

I believe the max size of a group is 6.

My necro/ranger combo is currently sitting at lvl 16 but my leveling slow isn't a bearing on the game. I've just been busier then usual.

It's a very large world to explore, and very beautiful at that.

[Erron]

I played Vanguard from Beta solo. At launch ended up two boxing a Paladin and a Cleric up to level 50. Eventually with the disappearing population, I went to five boxing Paladin, Cleric and 3x Sorcerers. Spent a lot of time in the ancient port warehouse when it came alive. The game was so broken for me by that point I lost interest. I always left that sixth spot open for guildmates and pick up players. Which broke up some of the boredom from tank and spank. Someday I might go back and see how the game is coming along. But for me, right now, WoW is much more mulitbox friendly.

My old team:
Vanguard 5box team ('http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_f8dm16JKS7s/SYM4WuNumhI/AAAAAAAAAMU/vN9HeB4y6pM/s1600-h/ScreenShot_00119.JPG')

[Korruptor]

Well mmorpg has finally re-visited Vanguard. Check out their evaluation:

http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/147/view/reviews/load/69/Vanguard-ReReview.html

[moosejaw]

Nice review. I am seriously going to log in this afternoon after work and start a new character. A little vacation from Wow this weekend.

[Korruptor]

You want to see a sick list of mounts in VG??

http://www.kayoss.net/vgmounts.htm

I've been learning the details from a kind fellow who responded to my question in zone chat and then flew out to me, gave me some coin and spent an hour or so showing me around and giving me tips on crafting, diplomacy and faction. The community over all is a good one.

Since in VG all races start off as neutral you can build your faction with any city but there are pro's/con's so you need to weigh your choices before deciding. Here is a guide:

http://forums.tentonhammer.com/showthread.php?t=33974

This game is all about choices - you make your own path.

[d0z3rr]

Nice review. I am seriously going to log in this afternoon after work and start a new character. A little vacation from Wow this weekend.

Let me know how it goes. I recently cancelled all my WoW accounts and am looking for an alternate MMO to play now. Vanguard seemed pretty cool since it's been updated alot.

[Frosty]

I tried to take a look at it but it wouldn't run on my crappy laptop. Waiting on new PC. :S

[moosejaw]

Nice review. I am seriously going to log in this afternoon after work and start a new character. A little vacation from Wow this weekend.

Let me know how it goes. I recently cancelled all my WoW accounts and am looking for an alternate MMO to play now. Vanguard seemed pretty cool since it's been updated alot.

I played to level 3 in the starter area. I need to dedicate more time to it. I can not pass judgement or give a grade at this time. :D

[Kromtor]

What's an ideal 6 man setup? I'm assuming it's like EQ where you want a tank, 1 or 2 healers, AoE CC and DPS... then pretty much every grinding group needs a bard so:

War, Cleric, Shaman, Sorc, Ranger, Bard

Or maybe swapping out the cleric for a BM since it'll still do some healing and bring some good DPS to the table...

[Korruptor]

Erron used a paladin, cleric and three sorc's (see his post above).

This game is easier to solo then EQ was so you don't really need a full group unless that's what you want.

For my simple setup I have great opening damage, roots, snares, off-tank and fear (and I use it often) and that's with only two characters. I've experienced little trouble with multiple three dot mobs, even named ones because with fear, dots and snares I can keep them off my group quite well. If I had to add another character to my group it would be another necro or ranger. I personally can't imagine making it any more complicated then it already is.

After this first group, my plan was to level a pair of blood-mages. They have good synergy together with good damage & good heals.

[Ualaa]

Does Keyclone work with Vanguard?

[Kromtor]

My wife and I each played 2 chars in EQ, but ever since WoW I've been unable to play happily without having a full group. Grinding in EQ was inexplicably fun when you had a killer group (DAoC was sorta fun grinding too) but in WoW due to the fact that killing anything more than a few above your level was a total waste of time it was boring as shit. I'm really looking forward to playing a modern EQ as you call it.

I'll be starting up in about a week... ping will dictate the server choice but for all I know all the US servers are in the same location. I generally like to play on PvP servers after reading this I'm not so sure:
"Vanguard classes are not balanced with PvP in mind, and some classes are more capable in this regard than others. For example, the maximum damage of a single attack is restricted to 40% of maximum hitpoints of the victim, but certain classes can combine multiple instant attacks, resulting in the possibility to one-shot kill other classes with no chance for the victim to fight back."

If there's one thing I hate its getting 1 shotted but I guess in a group with res's I could live with it. Xeth isn't PvP, what made you choose the carebear route? (I did the same in EQ when playing multiples I must confess)

[Korruptor]

First off, there isn't a "carebear" route in VG: SOH.

To strike a contrast, Warhammer is a PvP focused game with with two settings, medium and hardcore, with PvE being a means to an end: to gain levels. The focus is PvP; in RvR lakes, in scenarios and taking zone/world objectives (enemy city being the final objective). I played Warhammer for the PvP because that was the games' focus. The PvP was the best I've ever seen and balanced in the sense you needed balanced group and work together to win. This is a true PvP game. PvE was the after thought (and it was boring).

Vanguard: SOH is a PvE game with a very, very large world to explore, a faction system for defining your position in that PvE environment, an intense crafting system, and an interesting twist on some "harvesting" skills (you need wood? you literally chop down a tree). All of this leans towards a making it a PvE game. Sure they have a PvP server but that doesn't mean that is what the game was designed for or even good at. It is more of an after thought like it was back in EQ. There was little balance and in my opinion, little point except to grief others.

I don't like, enjoy or get kicks from griefing people. If you want PvP in VG, thats what it is: Griefing. Pointless PvP where Rangers, Sorc's and Rogues clean up because they have stealth and/or invis, roots, snares and great alpha damage. No thanks, thats not what Vanguard is about.

I wanted a challenging PvE game, I got Vanguard. I want PvP, I got Warhammer.

[d0z3rr]

Started a 14 day trial on the weekend. I think the game is pretty good. Not sure when I'll start fulling multiboxing it, still have to see how keyclone works. Not to mention the stupid sony online launcher makes it more of a pita to launch multiple copies on one computer. I only have 2 comps and 3 monitors, so 6boxing will be interesting......

Once I'm done playing Fallout 3, FEAR2, and Street Fighter IV. I'll look into boxing this game. It's gonna be weird healing without Healbot!!

[Jezebel]

i played this during beta with my guild (from shadowbane, the only real PvP game still going =P) and i thought it had a lot of potential, despite the bugs. i didnt box it at the time, because i was limited to one beta account, but the macro system made me think it was very possible.

one of the things that put me off the game (aside from the huge amount of bugs, exploits and dupes that ruined economy) was the extreme squishy-ness of casters. any form of melee or archer type could one-shot/two-shot anything in cloth. soon after that they put a cap on damage.. 40% or so, i think? but that in itself was a pretty sub-par effort to fix blatant imbalances between archetypes. its been a long time since then, though. might have changed? i also remember there was a lack of significant AoE healing at the time, which makes boxing a group hard.

and have they added some sort of end-game content, yet? a the time it was pretty much just hack'n'slash until level cap and then nothing to do.

[Erron]

Does Keyclone work with Vanguard?

My experience was Keyclone worked well. I only played with each copy of VG on it's own machine. I understand others have had luck with two clients on one machine and Keyclone.

[Kromtor]

It sounds like I'll be going to a PvE server then. EQ was the same way which is why the PvP servers got old really quick. The nice thing about a game that doesn't give a shit about PvP balance is that they're less likely to nerf the cool stuff - MOBs dont whine on forums to the devs =)

Hope to see you in game then, I'll be easy to spot.

[Korruptor]

...and have they added some sort of end-game content, yet? a the time it was pretty much just hack'n'slash until level cap and then nothing to do.There is end game raid content (Ancient Port Warehouse) but I don't know much about it yet.

And the Crafting/Diplomacy spheres add a lot of side content that you can do either as you level or after you cap out. The kind fellow that gave me some coin was a ship builder and others craft everything from weapons to houses.

[heffner]

I played VG when it first came out. I thought it was a game with a lot of potential and it definitely had a more challenging feel to it [honestly, WoW isn't that difficult - but I have a lot of fun with it]. If people have only done tradeskills in WoW, you will be surprised what it's like in other games like VG. I find the tradeskills a bit much for my taste but I know people who love it. Anyway, I stopped playing due to time issues at that point in time. My brother plays regularly and is always trying to get me involved. I almost picked it up at the store many times, but never bought it since I still have so much to accomplish in WoW [and very little time, so it takes me a while to get anywhere].

You've piqued my interest again though. Especially with a free trial! I'd love to try multiboxing it as well.

[Kromtor]

Hard to believe this game has been out for as long as it has and it's still this clunky and buggy. Quests were a nightmare for multiboxing gave up on those - that's ok I like to grind. You have to fly to get to the trial dungeon /follow doesn't work properly while flying, you get no elevation changes... but hey it didnt work on certain mounts in WoW either so no biggie. Then I finally fly each guy individually to the temple destination and i repeatedly fall through the structure and end up underneath it, inside it, stuck. Use /stuck, wait 60 seconds. Back to a safe spot. Buy another pegasus ride. Get there and fall through the ground for the 3rd time and I do my alt F4 special move. What's worse is that these problems are known and discussed on vanguard forums but are not fixed.

And I'm not spoiled by WoW - I'm playing EQ again now and finding it feeling far more advanced and fluid than Vanguard. People say Vanguard is what EQII should have been, I dunno... maybe it's what the prequel to EQ should have been. I'm done.

[Korruptor]

The /follow not working on flying mounts was annoying, true but I never fell through any area around the temple like you did. I did however, one time, fall through the bottom of a river when I decided to swim at the bottom of it skimming the river bed. But that was just one time.

Kromtor, let us know your opinion of the current status of EQ is.

[Gorthu]

Yeah. I triple boxed it with keyclone. I quit VG because they closed the Team PvP server and went to only FFA.

Pics are posted at: http://solidice.com/keyclone/user_ss/ss_vanguard_3_in_1_boxing.jpg

however, if i played today, I'd triple-box using two comps and not one. IF nothing has changed, the key to loading them into keyclone and the Maximizer is to be in window mode and to use the ADD button on the main window of Keyclone; this adds the game window to keyclones list; then right-click on the game list in keyclone to select a maximizer region.

[Kromtor]

Well full disclosure I'm a sucker for EQ. It was my first MMO and it has nostalgiac qualities. Playing on FV with a group of 1 cleric, 1 bard (was a chanter but they're kind of useless now), 4 mages I'm having a blast. Server is multiboxer friendly it seems and have already met some cool people in game (which is odd).

But I have no idea what the state of end game is - I just enjoy the grind playing an efficient group. Im looking forward to building some wealth and doing a melee group.

I jumped into a body of water that I know used to be easily gotten out of but that was not the case. Had to drown myself. I think they screwed up some of the water physics and never bothered to fix it because being in water at all (even with higher swimming) is not a pleasant experience.

[epi]

Well i loaded up the 14 day trial. Created two accounts. Two gnome necromancers. Cant get keyclone to pass the keys to the second client. Playing both on one computer. Course im a computer idiot. Running them in windowed mode on two screens. Any suggestions would be great. Thanks

[Scritchin]

After 2 boxing a Warr / Cleric and then Sorc / Monk to 50 it gets very grindy in all spheres (Craft, Diplomacy, Raiding). The ride to 50 for me was much better than actually being 50.

Vanguard was a sad out come for what could of been a truly great game but was ruined by the grind mentality and countless bugs.

That being said I have very fond memories of Telon and its mob and landscape beauty.

[heffner]

The past couple of days I was trying to test out Vanguard to see how multiboxable it was. So, I created 6 trial accounts got everything up and working and played a bit to level 4 or so. Next day, all accounts gone. So I figured that maybe it was because I forgot to verify my email address. I went through the entire process again, played a different set of 6 toons to about level 4 again. Tonight, I try to log in again and all my accounts were gone....again. I suppose it could be anti-spam or something, but geeze, it's a trial and on a "trial island".



Next, I try to go to the official forums and put a post and ask for some help. You think I could actually create an account and make a post?? Hell no. Not only is it confusing as all hell, but once I actually logged in with a new account the forums were basically not there. I assume because I wasn't a paying player.



How the hell does this company expect to get new players when it's such BS to even try to play the trial? Setting up an account and the software was pretty bad IMO too. No wonder this game has been a complete failure.



Also, although this thread is old, Epi you need to run Keyclone as administrator to get it to work.