4870x2, 2x 4870, or something else?

[FunkStar]

Some may already have read the thread where I had problems with my new 4870x2 card:

4870x2 Issues ('http://www.dual-boxing.com/forums/index.php?page=Thread&threadID=18184')


After a long time of trying to fix it with different drivers, a format, settings, hotfixes for drivers,.. I've tested the card in my old pc which gave exactly the same artifacts.
As a result I would think that either my card is broken, or the whole series is incompatible with wow (which I doube because noone else seems to report these issues).

Now I'm within 7 days of purchase so I can get my money back and get a new card, or just get it replaced with warrantee.
I wanted to ask the community what would be most optimal for boxing, and what the pro's & cons would be.

My setup:
i7 920 Nehalem
6 GB Triple channel 1066 mhz ddr3 ocz ram
900 w psu
gigabyte ex-58 ud5 mobo
2x 1 tb spinpoints in raid0
2x 750 gb spinpoints not in raid (yet)

I run 2 monitors (2x 24" @ 1920x1200) when boxing

I run 3 clients on this PC. 1 client in maximized window 1920x1200 on the first monitor. 2 other cilents on 960x1200 windowed on the 2nd monitor (vertical split)

Options
1. get a new 4870x2 under warrantee
2. get my money back & buy 2x 4870 (so 2 single gpu cards)
--> will 2 cards use more power?
--> is it easy to switch between Crossfire mode and non crossfire mode? (for when I want to play FPS games at a LAN-party or so)
--> Is it advised to get 2 single gpu's for multiboxing? Does it work 'properly' to connect my main screen (and therefor main wow char) the 1 of the cards, and the 2 others (2nd monitor) to the 2nd card when they are not in crossfireX? Is there any benchmarks of the gains of this versus both monitors on a single 4870?
3. get my money back & buy a total different card (gtx280, 295, ... ?)
4. get a single 4870 (or another equally priced card) and 6gb more ddr3 ram

From what I've read option 2 is my way to go, but I really have no clue of what kind of performance gains you get with having 1 monitor per card versus 2 monitors on a single card.

I can't force anyone to reply on this, but if you wish to help, please do so before next Tuesday because my send-card-back-get-money-back ends then :P

thanks in advance

[jag989]

Running a 2nd monitor on a 2nd video card really won't offer any improvement as it will default to software rendering.

You have a very fast CPU, the limiting factor will likely be the video card no matter what you pick up. I'm 5 boxing on 2 monitors, 1x 1920x1200 (high settings) and 4x 800x600 (low settings), with only a 4850 (not x2). Everything up to Northrend runs capped at 60fps with non focused screens locked at 30. WoW gains very little benefit from dual card solutions (crossfire or SLI), I actually had to disable crossfire between 2 4850s because of terrible dual monitor support on crossfire.

My advice would be to get 1 fast single card, a normal 4870 or GTX 280 or greater should be perfectly fine. Get 2 if you like to run other games as well, but you will notice that comparing the WoW performance with 1 card compared to 2 is little to no different.


Edit, more answers:

-It is very easy to switch from Crossfire to normal. With Windows running you can check/uncheck a box in Catalyst Control Center. Other than some monitor flickering it only takes about 2 seconds.

-Off topic: As opposed to using Keyclone or some other software to decide your core management, give all 3 copies full access. In your WTF folder you should have a config file. Open it with wordpad and you should have a line that reads SET processAffinityMask "3". Changing the 3 to a 15 will give the game default access to the 4 physical CPU cores.

-As far as the options you listed go, I vote for #4. You probably don't need more RAM with only 3 clients running but it certainly wouldn't hurt : )

[FunkStar]

Running a 2nd monitor on a 2nd video card really won't offer any improvement as it will default to software rendering.

Why do so many people on db.com use multiple non sli/crossfire cards then? Only to support more monitors? I have the money to get 2, or a 4870x2, I just dont quite see how there can be no performance gain by running them on a separate monitor.
Could you possibly explain what exactly is the benefit/disadvantage (technically) of having a monitor on each card? I'm quite computer fancy, compared to the average, but upto now I just never use sli/xfire or multiple gfx cards before

[jag989]

From my understanding, monitors attached to any card other than the primary (crossfire or not) will only run in software mode without extensive juggling of primary displays each time you start up the programs. The video card flexibility is nowhere near what you can do with a CPU. Ultimately, when it comes to performance you wouldn't see a gain with a 2nd video card even if WoW could take care of it - you would already be maxed out on one card that fast.

Buy two cards! Many, many, modern games utilize them. WoW is more of an exception.

[FunkStar]

would it, in that case, be best to get a 4870x2 or 2x 4870's ?

Any advantages/disadvantages to either?

So far I found that you can't really disable the 2nd gpu of the 4870x2 for wow (i got told if u have crossfire running ur performance is actually worse than if its disabled).
How is the power usage of 4870x2 vs 2x 4870 ? any Cooling difference?


edit: a bit an offtopic question, but the system mentionned in first post with a 4870x2 in it, got 18 k score in 3dmark06 with that (nothing overclocked). Is this 'normal' ? Reason I'm asking is to find out if its just the artifacts in wow that are flawed on my card, or peformance as well.)

[jag989]

I would go for 2x 4870s purely for the flexibility and even portability if you build a new system. The 4870x2s are literally two cards stacked together in crossfire.

A 4870x2 would probably be slightly more power efficient compared to two individual cards, but not noticeably. Having crossfire enabled could definitely impact performance some for applications not designed to take advantage of it - it would only be extra stuff in the background.

Cooling would really depend on your setup and case. Running 1x 4870 while playing would be cooler than the 4870x2.

That score does seem a little low but it would be very safe to blame the artifacting.

[FunkStar]

I would go for 2x 4870s purely for the flexibility and even portability if you build a new system. The 4870x2s are literally two cards stacked together in crossfire.

A 4870x2 would probably be slightly more power efficient compared to two individual cards, but not noticeably. Having crossfire enabled could definitely impact performance some for applications not designed to take advantage of it - it would only be extra stuff in the background.

Cooling would really depend on your setup and case. Running 1x 4870 while playing would be cooler than the 4870x2.

That score does seem a little low but it would be very safe to blame the artifacting.

Ok thanks for the explanation :)

The artifacts are only in wow though (or well, at least not visible in the benchmark), i've not installed any other games yet

[sqeaky4100]

At the cost of either of the one's your looking at, you should look into a GTX295.

Theyre $500, just came out, and are the fastest single gpu cards in the world. Which is what you want for WoW ( a single gpu )

[FunkStar]

At the cost of either of the one's your looking at, you should look into a GTX295.

Theyre $500, just came out, and are the fastest single gpu cards in the world. Which is what you want for WoW ( a single gpu )

Which I understand, but multi-gpu supporting games would still beat it by a fair margin I suppose? (considering 2x 4870). Since I only have 3 clients, I just want them to run fine (main on max, alts on decent) which should be alright with a 4870.
Best bang for the buck would be 2x 4870 I guess.

[sqeaky4100]

At the cost of either of the one's your looking at, you should look into a GTX295.

Theyre $500, just came out, and are the fastest single gpu cards in the world. Which is what you want for WoW ( a single gpu )

Which I understand, but multi-gpu supporting games would still beat it by a fair margin I suppose? (considering 2x 4870). Since I only have 3 clients, I just want them to run fine (main on max, alts on decent) which should be alright with a 4870.
Best bang for the buck would be 2x 4870 I guess.
I still would recommend this card:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130439

The 295's are outperforming 4870s Crossfired, and 4870x2... plus it's nVidia... their driver support is far superior to anything Radeon has to offer. Plus the 48xx series is plagued with hot running cards, that you have to deal with tricks/settings to cool down, not cool.

http://www.overclock.net/hardware-news/435548-fudzilla-new-gtx-295-vs-4870x2.html

Simply put, right now - both the 4870x2, and the 295 will basically dominate any game you throw at em'... the 295 is more future proof.

Last point: As far as WoW goes, WoW was created with nVidia in mind, not Radeon cards... so WoW has been proven to run slightly better on nVidia drivers. ( though if your only running 3 clients, both cards will practically be sleeping while you're playing WoW )



If you're still set on getting a Radeon card ( for the last few years nVidia has been dominated them, the 48xx series has given Radeon 'some' strength back ), I would personally get the 4870x2 over the 2x 4870 in Xfire... First reason is that it is the latest and greatest technology. Seoncdly, tests show they run a tiny bit faster. Lastly, it takes up less space, only 1 slot instead of 2. And having just 1 card will make the enitre case a lot quieter and cooler.


but still, get the brand new, shinny, awesome, fast, spectacular GTX295!

[FunkStar]

"Today is the day that we can lift up a big chunk of mystery that you guys have heard about in the rumor channel for a while now. It's the GeForce GTX 295. As usual, the rumors were pretty accurate. The GeForce GTX 295 will be an all new dual-GPU graphics card from NVIDIA based on the 55nm GeForce GTX 200 derivatives."
quoted from: http://www.guru3d.com/article/geforce-gtx-295-preview/

Was just looking up some reviews, and instantly found that it was a dual GPU card as well. It outperforms the x2 though, i'll give you that, but it's not single gpu :p


edit: if theres anymore people with opinions / experiences feel free to share :)

haven't made up my mind yet

[Yo-Yo Freak]

if you want bang for your buck, get 2x 4870's.

if one of your cards ever dies, hopefully they won't but still, you still have another card to play off of until you can replace the dead one. with the dual GPU cards, if they die well then your dead in the water so to speak, you can't play (unless you have some spare high end or decent card lying around, and not many people do) until you can replace it. IMHO 2x single GPU will always be better then dual GPU for exactly that reason. Period. as for performance, 2x 4870's is just as good as a 4870x2, don't even consider the GTX 295, its overpriced atm and it is also new which means that its going to have some flaws. if you read some more reviews on the GTX 295 you will also find that it isn't any better than the 4870x2, its just new and over priced. definatly not an option if you want bang for your buck.

oh and make sure if you get the 2x 4870's you get 1G cards.

hope this helps some. ^_^

~YYF

[pinotnoir]

You want the best bang for the buck get this... http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102809 $299.99. It's a ATI 4850x2 2gig ram card with 4 DVI's. So you can run 4 monitiors if you wanted. Toms hardware said its the best for the money in the dec video card article. It beats nvidia 280's and almost does the same as a 4870x2. Its the same chip but ddr3 ram and a slower clock than a 4870x2.

[jag989]

You want the best bang for the buck get this... http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102809 $299.99. It's a ATI 4850x2 2gig ram card with 4 DVI's. So you can run 4 monitiors if you wanted. Toms hardware said its the best for the money in the dec video card article. It beats nvidia 280's and almost does the same as a 4870x2. Its the same chip but ddr3 ram and a slower clock than a 4870x2.You could run 4x monitors but you would still have the same software limitations on the 'extra' 2 DVI ports. You would also have more trouble disabling the internal crossfire on the card which can sometimes provide trouble when running multiple monitors and 3D apps.

The card is without a doubt a fantastic buy for general purposes, however, for multiboxing I would still go with one or more individual cards.

[pinotnoir]

You want the best bang for the buck get this... http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102809 $299.99. It's a ATI 4850x2 2gig ram card with 4 DVI's. So you can run 4 monitiors if you wanted. Toms hardware said its the best for the money in the dec video card article. It beats nvidia 280's and almost does the same as a 4870x2. Its the same chip but ddr3 ram and a slower clock than a 4870x2.You could run 4x monitors but you would still have the same software limitations on the 'extra' 2 DVI ports. You would also have more trouble disabling the internal crossfire on the card which can sometimes provide trouble when running multiple monitors and 3D apps.

The card is without a doubt a fantastic buy for general purposes, however, for multiboxing I would still go with one or more individual cards.

My vista 64 could run 4 dvi just fine. And turning crossfire on and off is simple as clicking the button in the ati control center.

[FunkStar]

What do you guys think about this one:

(2x )XFX GTX260 Black Edition (Retail, HDTV, 2x DVI)


The review I've read puts it above the 4870 in 95% of the cases (its a gtx260 'improved' version). Anyone has this card? Or experience/thoughts about it?

You can find specifications here:
http://www.alternate.be/html/product/details.html?articleId=65981&showTechData=true

though the site is in dutch, speficiations should be clear

[pinotnoir]

Read this it can help.

http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/best-graphics-card,review-31483-5.html

Best graphics cards for the money Jan 09.

They have that 4850x2 listed in the $330+ area but if you get it from newegg its $299 on special right now. So for the money its a win win. Or you can spend almost the same and get a 260 thats slower.

[Ualaa]

I'm happy with the 4870 X2, which was the best card on the market at the time of my purchase.

Essentially, one card vs two cards in SLI/Crossfire...
A single card costs more, but is more powerful then either of the two cards. A single card allows you a second (also) more powerful card down the road for an upgrade if you choose to go that route.
Two cards allow more monitors if you want to use them, will cost less then one single stronger card, and if your card does go... your system can still run, rather then be out of commission.

Pretty much decide which factors are most important to you.
These were the factors I considered, but everyone has their own opinion.