Somewhat finalized Thunderstorm rotation, elemental tips

[magwo]

Yesterday me and Lizandra discussed the Thunderstorm rotation a little, came to the conclusion that it's best to have your grounding totems included in the rotation of TS.
For those who are new to this or not aware.. what I do is that I have 4 separate buttons, each with the same but rotated spells around the shammies:

Button 1: TS, Grounding Totem, Fire Nova Totem, Grounding Totem
Button 2: Grounding Totem, TS, Grounding Totem, Fire Nova Totem
etc, or something similar optimized for your needs

Should preferrably be used in succession B1-B4 to maximize effect.
On a side note, the reason I don't use cast sequence is that they are unreliable in PVP with all the CC and silence going around - they get way out of synch. Using these buttons in pvp I spam them as needed until the TS goes off.

This rotation has improved my pvp performance immensely in BGs. Knockback + aoe stun + spell defense in one single button press - it's simply an awesome tool to survive the onslaught of many enemies.. The thing to look out for is to not waste TS on nova stunned targets.
I used to have Frost shock and no groundings in the rotation, but the frost was sort of counter-productive, because meelee that was TS:ed and frosted sometimes didn't get back fast enough to get stunned by the Nova.


Edit: Note that "TS" in this rotation is a macro with pvp trinket + TS which makes it more useful under pressure where you are often stunned or polymorphed or whatever.

[GizmoxLoW]

On my TS roation i have one of my shamans drop an earthbind. so when i do knock someone away it gives me a few extra seconds to set things up to start nuking

[suprafro]

I don't get the value of separate buttons, aside from the issue of the toon whos turn it is to fire being CCd? Thats solved though with a PVP trinket or simply hitting the button again to progress to the next character/sequence...I DO have a seperate squence that is empty aside from staggered TS (ex: ,,,TS,) so that if someone is missed I can use it to access their TS without waiting on GDCS from doing other stuff. I find that party cooldown tracking is priceless for monitoring whos are available...Anyway I have staggered cast sequences on all my shaman on one button to produce the following:

main sequence: (all toons)

1 tap = 1 TS, 1 nova, 1 tremor, 1 earthbind, 1 warstomp

backup sequence: (all toons)
TS,,,,
,TS,,,
etc

I've played around with having the warstomps out of the sequence but I prefer them in the sequence as they are delayed by 0.5 so they hit after TS knockback and stun remaining targets whom probably had up some sort of magic immune ability up at the time

[pinotnoir]

Can you guys post your macros for this? I am trying to figure out the best combos for either button press keybinds or cast sequence macros. I have 3 cows and I never use their stomp. I like the idea of rotation on novas for the stun. I think the button press would be tough because the character assigned to ts may be cc'ed. That would require tons of awareness to know whos turn it is and if they are able to ts by not being cc'ed.

[magwo]

I don't get the value of separate buttons, aside from the issue of the toon whos turn it is to fire being CCd? Thats solved though with a PVP trinket or simply hitting the button again to progress to the next character/sequence...I DO have a seperate squence that is empty aside from staggered TS (ex: ,,,TS,) so that if someone is missed I can use it to access their TS without waiting on GDCS from doing other stuff. I find that party cooldown tracking is priceless for monitoring whos are available...Anyway I have staggered cast sequences on all my shaman on one button to produce the following:

main sequence: (all toons)

1 tap = 1 TS, 1 nova, 1 tremor, 1 earthbind, 1 warstomp

backup sequence: (all toons)
TS,,,,
,TS,,,
etc

I've played around with having the warstomps out of the sequence but I prefer them in the sequence as they are delayed by 0.5 so they hit after TS knockback and stun remaining targets whom probably had up some sort of magic immune ability up at the time


Many times when you use this your pvp trinket will be on cooldown.

Hitting a cast sequence button again causes multiple drops of unwanted totems, for example several fire novas or several earthbinds. Then they might be on cooldown when you actually need them. Most of the time when I'm doing this 1-4 of my shammies are coming out of CCs like fears, stuns, silences so I need to mash the button for a while to make sure most of the stuff is actually done.

I only have 4 shammies, and I value grounding totem way over earthbind, and my tremor should not need refreshing when I'm doing this rotation. Not having earthbind in the rotation eliminates the need to also have tremors in it.

[suprafro]

toona:

/castsequence reset=45 thunderstorm, fire nova totem, tremor totem, grounding totem, earthbind totem
/castsequence ,,,,war stomp

toonb:

/castsequence reset=45 earthbind totem, thunderstorm, fire nova totem, tremor totem, grounding totem
/castsequence ,,,war stomp,

toonc:


/castsequence reset=45 grounding totem, earthbind totem, thunderstorm, fire nova totem, tremor totem
/castsequence ,,war stomp,,

toond:

/castsequence reset=45 tremor totem, grounding totem, earthbind totem, thunderstorm, fire nova totem
/castsequence ,war stomp,,,

toone:

/castsequence reset=45 fire nova totem, tremor totem, grounding totem, earthbind totem, thunderstorm
/castsequence war stomp,,,,



I'm not saying these are the ideal abilities to have in a sequence, thats up to you, but there is no waste here... each sequence is only using 1 nova and 1 TS per button push. If an ability on the first sequence is not available or on cooldown use the second sequence (warstomps)

[magwo]

Um I'm not sure if I'm missing something here.. but I fail to see how that would work.

Assuming your pvp trinket is on cooldown:

1. You get AOE stunned, toon C and D resist.
2. You press Your TS rotation button, no TS but toon C casts a Fire Nova.
3. You press your TS rotation button again, still no TS but toon D drops a Fire Nova.
4. You get AOE feared, toon B resists.
5. You press your TS rotation button, no TS but toon B drops a Fire Nova.
6. You get out of CC and now most of your Fire Novas are on cooldown.


I don't see how you avoid this problem with cast sequences.


EDIT: All this is referring to suprafro's castsequence model for doing this.

[entoptic]

Sorry guys but I am failing to see this.

Why not have all your grounding totems on one button. Press it and blame 5 grounding totems.

Why not have all your TS on a single button as well. Press it and watch everyone die and fly.

Use shift to modify or just another button for round robin.

I guess I don't see the use of single TS vs TSx5. I get the whole knock back thing but if you use TSx5 then they go FLYING and you can just chain heal up and roll whomever comes in next.

[entoptic]

Um I'm not sure if I'm missing something here.. but I fail to see how that would work.

Assuming your pvp trinket is on cooldown:

1. You get AOE stunned, toon C and D resist.
2. You press Your TS rotation button, no TS but toon C casts a Fire Nova.
3. You press your TS rotation button again, still no TS but toon D drops a Fire Nova.
4. You get AOE feared, toon B resists.
5. You press your TS rotation button, no TS but toon B drops a Fire Nova.
6. You get out of CC and now most of your Fire Novas are on cooldown.


I don't see how you avoid this problem with cast sequences.

Drop grounding totems and tremor totems before they come in. For me these 10 totems are ALWAYS down. TSx5 kills just about everyone and if they survive FSx5 and they are dead. Then CL whomever is left. No one wants to run back into the mix after you TSx5 and they are at low health.

[suprafro]

I've got seperate modifier keys to drop all novas, all TS (with EM), all groundings, staggered novas, staggered TS, and staggered tremors but I just find it convinent to merge nova and TS into a combined sequence in a single button to handle most PVP situations. There are definitely times when blowing all nova/TS is a beautiful thing like BGs, but in the arena I always use them staggered as im basically dead if they are all on CD and everyone ive come across in arena is in the 22-26k hp range. Just my experience anyway

[magwo]

It seems as if I'm not getting my point across at all here. :\

[magwo]

Why not have all your grounding totems on one button. Press it and blame 5 grounding totems.

Because they will get wanded down, then you will get bursted down. It's IMO better to have a more steady stream of groundings.. and when you put them in this rotation you won't forget them in your most dire moment.

[Ualaa]

Everyone will have their own system; there are merits to dropping them together and in having them as part of the TS sequence.
For maximum effect, as in having them out whenever possible, they can be added to the TS sequence fairly easily.
It's not like we have another more useful Air totem, which will be overwritten at an inopportune time.

I personally have Groundings in my initial totem stomping macro.
I also have a key for all shammies to drop their grounding immediately, assuming its not on cooldown.
Since there isn't another useful Air Totem, adding Groundings to my TS macro is a great idea -- additional chances for a Grounding to be placed.

[pinotnoir]

I have a cast sequence that drops all my totems before the fight. Fire totems I do manually but the sequence lays down all the good ones. Right now I have two TS options.. tsx5 and ts round robin. I also have nova x 5. With the amount of health people are sporting my novas + ts doesnt kill them. Especially true in wintersgrasp cause alliance always has tenacity. Sometimes I am fighting people with 70k health. I think the round robin nova ts idea is pretty sweet. Now I have to figure the best way to do it. Dropping totems as the fight happens seems bad. If you get feared or sheeped before you get temor or grounding down will screw you up. I think throwing the totems down prefight is best. I am thinking about just putting nova totem on a key and have keyclone round robin it. Seems like the easiest way. When the toon is cc'ed you will not ts but shit happens.

[Multibocks]

I think Magwo is playing a higher rating of arena. TSx5 is great in the low brackets(hey it won me a game today!) but once you start hitting the high brackets where healers actually heal and casters/melee know to wand/stab your grounding totems... throwing everything out at once is bad and leaves you open to their dps cooldowns.

[Ellay]

I'm not sure of my stance on this tactic. Personally I don't find the value in doing it, but if someone is able to produce this to very effective results, more power to you :)

[blast3r]

Sorry guys but I am failing to see this.

Why not have all your grounding totems on one button. Press it and blame 5 grounding totems.

Why not have all your TS on a single button as well. Press it and watch everyone die and fly.

Use shift to modify or just another button for round robin.

I guess I don't see the use of single TS vs TSx5. I get the whole knock back thing but if you use TSx5 then they go FLYING and you can just chain heal up and roll whomever comes in next.

yea, why waste your TS if you don't need it? i have TS on it's own button and round robin it. i just use ts when i need it not when i drop my main totems. going to add an earthbind to it, though.

[magwo]

Well, to clarify:
1. I tend to forget refreshing groundings when there are 4 dps plowing me into the ground. Putting them in buttons I am certain to press with regular intervals is a neat way to help me not forget them.
2. My reasoning for never using TS x4, is that.. well.. if the team has such low hitpoints that you are able to AOE them down with the weak damage of your Nova+TS, then you shouldn't have a problem killing them with TS rotation and single target nukes. TS x4 can be a fun and gimmicky maneuver, but for arena it's a BIG reduction in survivability for the next 40 seconds.

Edit: Often in 5v5 I find myself losing 5 vs 3, after killing 2 of them. Usually there tends to be DK + Pala + Healer left, and they can just mow me down if I don't have cooldowns and mana up.

[Owltoid]

Use a software solution instead of WoW macros. For typhoons (druid spells that cause AoE damage and knock back anyone in its path 5 yards with a 20 second cooldown) I have all my druids with the keybind number "1". Using HKN, I toggle through my WoW windows. The first time I push "1" it is only sent to WoW1 (Owltoid). The second time I push "1" it is only sent to WoW2 (Weirdowl). The third time I push "1" it is only sent to WoW3 (Owlive). Then it resets and the next time I push "1" it will be sent by Owltoid and the cycle continues. What this allows me to do is choose where I want massive AoE damage all at once by spamming "1" or if I want to have a staggered knockback by pushing 1, waiting a couple seconds, pushing 1, waiting a couple seconds, and then pushing 1 again.

IMO it's a better way then castsequences.

[Owltoid]

yea, why waste your TS if you don't need it? i have TS on it's own button and round robin it. i just use ts when i need it not when i drop my main totems. going to add an earthbind to it, though.Sorry, I guess I just repeated this solution. Oops.

[magwo]

Um, well, to play pvp with reasonable performance, you need to be a button masher, or you will be wasting valuable time when coming out of CC.

And.. button mashing and automatic round-robin doesnt mix well.

[Owltoid]

Um, well, to play pvp with reasonable performance, you need to be a button masher, or you will be wasting valuable time when coming out of CC.

And.. button mashing and automatic round-robin doesnt mix well.I'm not sure why you'd want to button mash in this situation. If you're trying to do massive AoE (as in three typhoons) then mash away. If you're just coming out of CC and worried about the guy on top of you, why wouldn't you want another toon who isn't CC'd to be doing the spell? If I am stunned and I hit "1" during the stun then the rogue is still going flying. If he starts approaching me again then I hit 1 again until I see a typhoon go off. If I spam any button then they're all going to use the ability which doesn't seem useful in a situation where you're trying to make and maintain difference.

[pinotnoir]

I replaced my old bloodlust button (round robin in keyclone) with nova totem. OMG what a difference that is. Kept those bastard melee off me. I have TS on round robin and I would ts then nova and by the time they come back they get stunned. Then ts again if they are not dead. Plus I still have my tsx5 and novax5 if I want to do that too.

[xtobbenx]

Yo guys.. I was part of developing this idea.. thought it was His idea and resoults.. So all credit to him:D

But i really feel that you ppl are missing out the idea with this... The point is not to do 1 1 1 1 TS or 4xTS or what ever. or why not use 1 button to add 4x Goundings..

Most of us have keys for all kinda things.. and ofc 4x grounding is a good way to start when the fight is starting... and at some point you might want to try to 4x TS a few ppl down.. But in the middle of the fight when your HP starts droping and you just need to make a little space for you to nuke someone down or to heal back up.. or just to be able to take a good deep breath... Then this Button that we are talking about is what you might want to use...

So whats happens is that.. 1xTS will blow ppl off you, 1x Fire nova will be droped... so that 5 seconds later when they all come runing back in and are narly on you.. they get stuned... and on top of this just to add in somthinging on the 2 last shammys (assuming you have 4) you have groundings. It might be that your goundings are allrdy on CD from your first 4x gorunding button you used.. but if not then 2 more should be added to drop alittle dps off you for some sec... So this whole thing is a way to make some space.. a few seconds that you can use to get something done. And this whole setup is 4x round robined.. Or set out on 4 diffrent buttons if you want max control on it.. I personaly think i will do that.. F5 F6 F7 F8. And then i ofc have my 4xTS button for panicing :P

PS: Allie, you are "the god of 5v5 shammy boxing" if i may say so :P ..you didnt really say much, could you give your thought on this a bit more detailed :P

[entoptic]

Why not have all your grounding totems on one button. Press it and blame 5 grounding totems.

Because they will get wanded down, then you will get bursted down. It's IMO better to have a more steady stream of groundings.. and when you put them in this rotation you won't forget them in your most dire moment.

by the time 5 grounding totems get wanded down you can cast them again.

Also you need to be going up against some smart players for that to happen.

And again pressing grounding totem once to drop 5 is better then having to mash it over and over when you could be healing or dpsing imo.

[entoptic]

Yo guys.. I was part of developing this idea.. thought it was His idea and resoults.. So all credit to him:D

But i really feel that you ppl are missing out the idea with this... The point is not to do 1 1 1 1 TS or 4xTS or what ever. or why not use 1 button to add 4x Goundings..

Most of us have keys for all kinda things.. and ofc 4x grounding is a good way to start when the fight is starting... and at some point you might want to try to 4x TS a few ppl down.. But in the middle of the fight when your HP starts droping and you just need to make a little space for you to nuke someone down or to heal back up.. or just to be able to take a good deep breath... Then this Button that we are talking about is what you might want to use...

So whats happens is that.. 1xTS will blow ppl off you, 1x Fire nova will be droped... so that 5 seconds later when they all come runing back in and are narly on you.. they get stuned... and on top of this just to add in somthinging on the 2 last shammys (assuming you have 4) you have groundings. It might be that your goundings are allrdy on CD from your first 4x gorunding button you used.. but if not then 2 more should be added to drop alittle dps off you for some sec... So this whole thing is a way to make some space.. a few seconds that you can use to get something done. And this whole setup is 4x round robined.. Or set out on 4 diffrent buttons if you want max control on it.. I personaly think i will do that.. F5 F6 F7 F8. And then i ofc have my 4xTS button for panicing :P

PS: Allie, you are "the god of 5v5 shammy boxing" if i may say so :P ..you didnt really say much, could you give your thought on this a bit more detailed :P

Or you could TSx5 and blast them 80 plus yards away, heal up, drop totems and blast them before they make it back to you.

one TS is crap imo as you dont have time to do anything.

[emesis]

Or you could TSx5 and blast them 80 plus yards away, heal up, drop totems and blast them before they make it back to you.

one TS is crap imo as you dont have time to do anything.

Oh yeah, that would be sweet, if the knockback from Thunderstorm stacked. 80 yards, lolz.

You were joking, right?

[Dominian]

Or you could TSx5 and blast them 80 plus yards away, heal up, drop totems and blast them before they make it back to you.

one TS is crap imo as you dont have time to do anything.

Oh yeah, that would be sweet, if the knockback from Thunderstorm stacked. 80 yards, lolz.

You were joking, right?

it does actually..

The record is 3 and i did send a guy from LM and almost down to the flag on bs!

However you have to fire them right after each other and it doesnt always work.

[emesis]

Or you could TSx5 and blast them 80 plus yards away, heal up, drop totems and blast them before they make it back to you.

one TS is crap imo as you dont have time to do anything.

Oh yeah, that would be sweet, if the knockback from Thunderstorm stacked. 80 yards, lolz.

You were joking, right?

it does actually..

The record is 3 and i did send a guy from LM and almost down to the flag on bs!

However you have to fire them right after each other and it doesnt always work.

Wow, I'll have to try that. I've always either fired them simultaneously or separated by enough time where I guess I've never seen that.

[BobGnarly]

I can see the value of staggering the TB and the FN totems, of course, but I'm not seeing how this is better than a castsequnce macro or round-robin.

I also can't agree on the grounding. 1 button 4 totems for me. Not only are you protected better early, but it's easier for me to remember to drop them when they are all synced up time wise. And yeah, if there is enough wands/spell casts to clear them all out before I can recast them, then spreading them out isn't going to help any.

On balance, it seems to me one RR button is better, but thanks for sharing the idea anyway. Glad it's helping your game.

[xtobbenx]

Goundings: As i said, 1 button from drop all groundings is the way to Start.. but during the battle its nice to include them on other buttons.. I rather have my other shammys droping groundings then not doing anything on the GCD while 1 shammy is TSing.. Goundings are down in 11.5 sec CD now (4set bonus + talent) and i guess that you could be able to remeber this every like 12 sec or so.. but for myself i know that i wont remeber it before i have killed most of them and only have a mage left nuking on me and i go like "ohh.. new gouundings would be nice.. "

TS: Also the TS stacking is working yes. I have noticed the same if they goes off not exactly on the same time.. But i dont belive that its more then 2 of the TSings that are actualy stacking Kick wise... But in a small arena i cant see why you want to use 4 to throw them as far away as 1 would, since of the walls and pillers etc... But ofc.. 4 adds more DPS.. So i guess that if you are sure to be nuking them down before they get in melee range again then sure go for 4x :D

But again.. this is not about, If its good to drop 4 gounding or 4 TSIng... This is an additional way to keep it all up in a tacktical way. Just ignore this and go your own way for god sake. But if you found the idea to be intresting then try it out in a way of maximizing your defence rotations.

[Dominian]

Goundings: As i said, 1 button from drop all groundings is the way to Start.. but during the battle its nice to include them on other buttons.. I rather have my other shammys droping groundings then not doing anything on the GCD while 1 shammy is TSing.. Goundings are down in 11.5 sec CD now (4set bonus + talent) and i guess that you could be able to remeber this every like 12 sec or so.. but for myself i know that i wont remeber it before i have killed most of them and only have a mage left nuking on me and i go like "ohh.. new gouundings would be nice.. "

TS: Also the TS stacking is working yes. I have noticed the same if they goes off not exactly on the same time.. But i dont belive that its more then 2 of the TSings that are actualy stacking Kick wise... But in a small arena i cant see why you want to use 4 to throw them as far away as 1 would, since of the walls and pillers etc... But ofc.. 4 adds more DPS.. So i guess that if you are sure to be nuking them down before they get in melee range again then sure go for 4x :D

But again.. this is not about, If its good to drop 4 gounding or 4 TSIng... This is an additional way to keep it all up in a tacktical way. Just ignore this and go your own way for god sake. But if you found the idea to be intresting then try it out in a way of maximizing your defence rotations.

Im just curiouse on how you plan to set it up?

You cant use a castsequence.. I could see it work with a castrandom TS and Grounding, but then again you would often blow 2..

If you drop a set of groundings and use a TS the macro will get stuck since grounding is on cooldown, If the macro get stuck it will after a while be totaly fk'ed up and start using 2 thunderstorms at once?

For me all theese things would certainly cause more pain then good! :/

[blast3r]

Or you could TSx5 and blast them 80 plus yards away, heal up, drop totems and blast them before they make it back to you.

one TS is crap imo as you dont have time to do anything.

Oh yeah, that would be sweet, if the knockback from Thunderstorm stacked. 80 yards, lolz.

You were joking, right?

it does actually..

The record is 3 and i did send a guy from LM and almost down to the flag on bs!

However you have to fire them right after each other and it doesnt always work.

When doing PVE I always hit TS one time and knock them back the current 15 yards (20 yards after next patch!). When I am doing PVP I get a little excited and spam the TS and usually knock them way the hell back. Lumber Mill in AB is a good place to knock them off the flag and into instant death. :)

[Kruschpakx4]

Mhm I play with a holypala in 5v5, I do 4 flameshock on the fake target, put 4 aoe totems, switch to melee shamy/warri/rogue/whatever an use crit+trinket+bloodfury+CLB, enemy melee eats 4 aoe totems, stunned for 2 sec, while stunned 4 crit CLB+4 thunderstorm, most times 1-2 melees don't survive that (secound target eats 4 earth shocks) when nothing resists. Most times they try to nuke me so their warrior isn't in deff stance, bladestorm warrirs in bersi stance can't survive that burst;

before i start to burst i put 4 groundings so next~3 secs every shaman is save against cs/cc; i also don't cast anything before the totems detonate so i can't get kicked;

Works nice but atm I'm always between 1450 and 1600... my realmpool is not very easy and those fucking tripple melee/cc setups, problem atm, i eat kick, stunn, aoe totems-crit-trinket-ect, mainchar dies... yeah if i survive more than 5 secs of tripple melee brust with bl or the first 2 rogue stunns i win mostly^^

[entoptic]

Or you could TSx5 and blast them 80 plus yards away, heal up, drop totems and blast them before they make it back to you.

one TS is crap imo as you dont have time to do anything.

Oh yeah, that would be sweet, if the knockback from Thunderstorm stacked. 80 yards, lolz.

You were joking, right?

No becuase the knock back does stack.

[entoptic]

Or you could TSx5 and blast them 80 plus yards away, heal up, drop totems and blast them before they make it back to you.

one TS is crap imo as you dont have time to do anything.

Oh yeah, that would be sweet, if the knockback from Thunderstorm stacked. 80 yards, lolz.

You were joking, right?

it does actually..

What works best this is...

Make sure to circle your enemy when you blast them. They do the classic ping pong and they are out!!!! Everyone will get a damn good laugh at it as well.
The record is 3 and i did send a guy from LM and almost down to the flag on bs!

However you have to fire them right after each other and it doesnt always work.

Wow, I'll have to try that. I've always either fired them simultaneously or separated by enough time where I guess I've never seen that.

[entoptic]

I can see the value of staggering the TB and the FN totems, of course, but I'm not seeing how this is better than a castsequnce macro or round-robin.

I also can't agree on the grounding. 1 button 4 totems for me. Not only are you protected better early, but it's easier for me to remember to drop them when they are all synced up time wise. And yeah, if there is enough wands/spell casts to clear them all out before I can recast them, then spreading them out isn't going to help any.

On balance, it seems to me one RR button is better, but thanks for sharing the idea anyway. Glad it's helping your game.

+1 on the stacks. I would rather be dpsing then dropping tots in battle.

[magwo]

I would rather be dpsing then dropping tots in battle.

Have you played 5v5 lately?

[5fingersofdoom]

I use a staggered Fire Nova/Earthbind,with other totems thrown in so its a chain across 5 chars.
Work well in BG's for getting range on chasing melee,and in static melee with TS.
No exp of this in Arenas