BM Hunter Pet Abuse

[Shaitan256]

Ok, weird Title but maybe someone tried it already, or is going to try it out. (Can start my team next month, but with RAF it's going to be quick)

So their are a few abilities for the Tenacity Pets:
Intervene (hope this was the right)
Taunt
Last Stand
Roar of Sacrifice (just a bad translation don't know the real) The 30% dmg absorb thingy.

So as a BM you got 20 Points to spent on the Tenacity(in this case) Tree. I would Recommend a Turtle because of the 50% DMG reduction.

So you could easily take dmg of your Tank with these abilities, Combined with Boneshield for example could be a dmg reduction of 50% (after Patch) Combined with the roar.

Intervene just to Minimize the dmg of the Tank.

Taunt + Distracting Shot to your pet culd give your tank a little break or let it take big attacks, and that's where the turtle ability comes in to play. You could easily Combine all that to Minimize the DMG on the pet + last Stand it could survive long enough. With a Full BM you can get it to
1,6 % of getting crits(down from 5,6) ,
about 11% dodge through talents (9 Hunter Tree, 2 Tenacity).
-75% AoE dmg taken
+50% HP gain throught heal

Or you could just let it take the ultimate attacks of the bosses just to save your a**.

Came just into my mind while playing my 2 Hunters. Maybe that is something for one or two of you :)

Edit: You also get the 3% dmg buff from your pet crits.
+ You get a CC with Freezing Trap / Arrow or for mobs just a nice off tank.

[Multibocks]

I'm calling PETA right now. Shame on you!

[Shaitan256]

I'm calling PETA right now. Shame on you!

Couldn't find another Title, but I think it fits.

*disappear into the underground* ^^

[Shaitan256]

Intervene is very tricky to work on a pet - its supposed to auto-cast, but it doesn't.

This would probably work on normal instances, but heroics? Not sure there. Pet might get wtfpwned by a nasty cleave or something.

But still, interesting ideas. Thanks for sharing. :D

I share Any Idea I have :)


That's why I said The turtle could do it. I saw on Bigredrhino.wordpress.com / Bigredkitty.net that some tried to Tank HCs with it and found a vid with a Gorilla tank a Boss of a raid instance (looking for it) Don't know which exactly but it's insane what is possible in Wotlk with all the "Oh shit Combinations" and WTFpwn buttons on some classes.

Edit: not bigredrhino.com - Bigredrhino.wordpress.com ^^
nnot bigredkitty.com bigredkitty.net ^^

[homerjunior]

I am sick of everyone posting awsome stuff. I would like to level one team :P

[Shaitan256]

I am sick of everyone posting awsome stuff. I would like to level one team :P

I know, my head is exploding of Team set ups and all that combination stuff, but can't really start before I get my GTX260 + another 2GB of Ram and my Vista 64 :) So I'm Theorycrafting more and more, I guess if I start I know everything about every class and specc and I'm a "Wandering WoW class Wikipedia" lulz

[Shaitan256]

http://files.filefront.com/Gruul+Bubbles+tankswmv/;12128097;/fileinfo.html

this is the link to the Gorilla tanking Gruul. but it seems to be off for some reason. ... now it works xD

here is the Post of it on Bigredkitty.net
http://www.bigredkitty.net/2008/10/22/its-not-a-heroic-but/

[Shaitan256]

Yeah looked @ it on the Warrior, and it has minimum Range 5m / yard , so the Tenacity has 8yd . That isn't the biggest prob. Usually you're tanking with the back of the Boss to your grp if you send your pet it's usually at the back of it so you have @ bigger bosses no problem to get the minimum range. But the main problem is you could get a way for the boss to turn to your grp, and that's what is kinda risky if the boss starts something like "wave attacks like Cone of Cold" (or the Taifun of the Boomkin) and I guess they have a huge range. That would be another Problem to solve.

I'm so excited to test it xD

[Gaffy]

First off I think it could work, I have a solo BM hunter and so far I haven't found a 3-man quest that my gorilla can't tank with just mend pet for heals. Haven't got my shammy leveled yet but once I do I'll be finding out how well he does against 5 man quests with a healer.
At 80 with mostly crappy gear my pet is sitting at about 16k health, 55ish% physical damage reduction, plus the talents that reduce magic damage and aoe damage. And that is unbuffed also.
So just guessing I would say in heroics, trash: good offtank with mild healing plus mend pet. Bosses: sacrificial lamb when needed. But better to lose a pet than the tank.

[Shaitan256]

First off I think it could work, I have a solo BM hunter and so far I haven't found a 3-man quest that my gorilla can't tank with just mend pet for heals. Haven't got my shammy leveled yet but once I do I'll be finding out how well he does against 5 man quests with a healer.
At 80 with mostly crappy gear my pet is sitting at about 16k health, 55ish% physical damage reduction, plus the talents that reduce magic damage and aoe damage. And that is unbuffed also.
So just guessing I would say in heroics, trash: good offtank with mild healing plus mend pet. Bosses: sacrificial lamb when needed. But better to lose a pet than the tank.

That's exactly what I meant.

Not just Sacrificial with Last stand and as a Turtle it really could take some of the DMG from the tank. And the Roar of course, if you have a healer with a HoT (or More) / Group heals it would be cool, just to take the 30% less dmg @ the tank (this dmg cannot be critting only if the tank isn't crit immune, because it's just taking dmg from your tank and not a direct hit by the boss) .

Ok, Roar holds 12 sec by a 30 sec cd with 2 Hunters or just on 1 Button with Bone shield or something.


Btw, thanks for the stats, that was what I needed, could you give me an armory link? Crappy could mean to some just blue stuff, for the others its green :)

[Gaffy]

Can't get the armory link for him currently (at work where they block wow, and just moved so having to wait till Saturday for internet hookup) but he's Erwinor on Quel'dorei (US). Mostly the LW crafted pvp gear and quest gear atm.

[Shaitan256]

Can't get the armory link for him currently (at work where they block wow, and just moved so having to wait till Saturday for internet hookup) but he's Erwinor on Quel'dorei (US). Mostly the LW crafted pvp gear and quest gear atm.

I guess if you focus on Stamina you could boost your pet has about 20k (with pet talents of course) and if you focus all your talents on the pet, too, wouldn't really make it a tank but would increase its ability to survive a few seconds after a taunt.

I'm going to play my Hunters ^^

[Boylston]

Solo hunters have already MTed a couple heroics with their pets... http://bigredrhino.wordpress.com/2008/12/08/pet-feat-utgarde-keep-heroic-mt/

Multi-hunters have some nice advantages in that you can lose a pet and just allow others to pick up tanking. Reviving the pet is a 4sec unlimited battle rez... I haven't attempted one yet, but I am optimistic that at least a few will be possible with slightly better gear.

I do worry that I might have made a mistake in using Druid as my healer, since I think the best buff for heroics is going to be Fortitude, since you get 161% of its benefit on your pets' health. Pets are super easy to heal and their mitigation is pretty decent, but their health pool is a bit small.

[Shaitan256]

Yeah, that's making them vulnerable. And the 1.6% crit left is a big issue.

Yeah haven't seen this post, was just on that page by coincidence as I googled for "Heroic Pet Tanking". Yeah that with Fortitude is insane :) and with blessing of kings too? does they scale up each other on the pet? That would be really insane xD
Priests also have Shields :) and can Give a + to Spell dmg and Spirit.

But I guess I will use my Pet as off tank and I call it "Side Tank" because it's just taking dmg via absorbing and at the big attacks Taunting so their is a chance for me to make things a lot easier. Gonna start today with 1 Team, but don't really know if it's going to be a regular grp pr a 5xdruid / 5xShaman But I guess I'd put a hunter into this regular grp.

But the real pet Skills are available @ 44 (intervene) or 62 (last row of the tree, or 60 with the BM talent of course)

Hehe, with 3 Hunters this would be insane DPS and you could keep the Roar on Cooldown xD what makes the tank taking all the time 30% less dmg :) Guess I'll start draenei then, get an extra HoT and Hit isn't bad at all^^

[Boylston]

Yeah, a priest with the talented PW:Fort gives a pet about:

165*1.3*1.61*10 = 3453 extra hit points...

I just got my crew to L80 last week, and am still a little undergeared for heroics, but I definitely think I'll be testing the waters soon. I know from being in heroics with 2-3 of my hunters (and a real, player controlled tank) that trash is really not a problem, but the bosses hit very hard. I am not worried about the remaining 1.6% chance to be crit so much, since there's always a backup tank if a pet gets crit hard and dies. I am more worried about just having the pets killed in 1-2 regular attacks. 3453 hit points would go a long way and maybe allow the healing to get off another heal.

I am still convinced that the druid is possibly the best healer for the multi-hunter PvE setup, largely due to some of the amazing glyphs. (I also think Wild Growth is >> Circle of Healing.) However, a priest might be the best way to get started doing heroics until pet health gets into the 20-25k range.

For bosses, I have been working on a macro rotation to always keep Roar of Sacrifice up on the main tanking pet. I'll report back when I get it working well.

[Shaitan256]

That's a lot for 1 Buff.

Didn't know that Wild Growth affects Pets as well.

GL HF :)

[Gaffy]

I am still convinced that the druid is possibly the best healer for the multi-hunter PvE setup,

I was thinking the same only for the multiple hot's all boosted up an extra 50% could mean a massive amount of health per tic, as long as the pet doesn't get 1-2 shotted, the hots would be able to bring the health back up

[Boylston]

Glyph of Rejuvenation is awesome for pets-- boosts healing of rejuv another 50% when the target is below half health, which is when you need it the most. Combined with all the extra +Heal% that talented pets get, rejuv can give a LOT of health to a pet. I think of it as life insurance. Glyphed regrowth is also nice, it gives another 20% to a regrowth if there's a regrowth HoT still active on the target. A properly talented regrowth crits a TON, which also procs a reactive heal on the target... There's just a lot of synergy...

IF the target can avoid being 1-2 shotted. That's the main concern. I think with some gear and proper Roar of Sacrifice chaining, my pet crew will become beefy enough to tank bosses without too much worry. We'll see.

Pretty much the only significant advantage that priests have over druids for healing a hunter multiboxer setup is Fortitude. Unless changes are made, Wild Growth heals more per application than Circle of Healing, and it's HoT ability is actually useful in boss encounters because you can pre-apply some healing to people you know will get AoEd. On the whole, they are very equivalent, but I prefer the druid style after having spent the last 10 levels appreciating how much forgiveness HoTs give the pets.

It stinks that Pallies don't have decent AoE healing capability. The only interesting pally mechanic that might be worth exploiting is their Beacon of Light ability for boss fights. Using Roar of Sacrifice, you could ensure that a second pet is always taking some of the tank's damage, and now have two targets that are soaking damage-- an ideal situation for how Beacon works.

* * *

My current healing strategy as a druid is...

Keep Rejuv up on anything that has aggro. (Life Insurance)
Regrowth spam on any target that is taking significant damage
Wild Growth on either the pet group or the huntard group every 6 seconds

I don't roll lifeblooms too much during trash, because I generally just let the pets have a free-for-all and duke it out for aggro. Wild Growth is awesome for dealing with this bouncing aggro. Lifeblooms are employed only on boss fights when I try to keep aggro on a single hunter pet.

For the last three weeks, I have pretended that WG already has a 6 second cooldown, and I will not re-use it while it is still ticking on anyone. I don't think the nerf will impact my playstyle much as a result.

[Shaitan256]

Yeah the glyphs are insane for Heal druids (haven't looked at the other yet) If it's only Fortitude is the druid to 100% the better choice, you could ask a Priest if he casts you the 1 Hour thing on you be fore you get into a Instance, give him just the Money for his Reagents, don't think they won't do it^^

Regrowth is insane you can get it to 70%ish with talents and normal 5% crit , without any +crit rating. If you have 4 Pets it's doable Keep RoaroS up, if your going to get 4 Tenacity Pets :).

[Boylston]

There's no reason not to go with 4xGorillas (tenacity pets). Several of us in this team composition have tested other combinations, we almost always come back to 4xGorillas...

[Niley]

the only thing about this idea, is that not only You're gimping Your hunters damage(turtle part), but in a 5 box team this would over complicate every thing, and based on my experience is not really needed.
Its always easier to spam heal one target then make Your healer keep switching to pets, back to the tank, to Your team w/e. Thats why priest or shaman healers work best for boxing, one button heals Your tank, one button heals Your whole team.
Anyways just my point of view :P I'm actually going to change my team quite a bit in next few weeks, kicking out 2 shamans, and replacing them with different classes, boxing is kinda easy with just 2 classes.

[homerjunior]

If your boxing a 5-man team purely for hunter tanking would not 2 healers be wise? 3 hunters,Priest,Druid for example

[Boylston]

Niley: Its always easier to spam heal one target then make Your healer keep switching to pets, back to the tank, to Your team w/e. Thats why priest or shaman healers work best for boxing, one button heals Your tank, one button heals Your whole team.
Here are a couple of interesting things to consider about running a Healer+4xHunter team as opposed to a more common Tank+4xShaman (or any Tank+Healer+DPS) setup:

1.) Most of the time, PvE instance boxers play the tank as the main character and controller the healer with buttons, since it's an alt. I play my HEALER as the main, and all the DPS and tanks are "alts". In my setup, I use mouse-click-casting through healbot to heal and mash buttons to control my "tank" and DPS. I can very effectively chase damage around this way.

2.) Unlike other boxing setups, ALL the characters are in a pile together at range while the "tanks" are farther away. Using an AoE heal (WG, CoH, CH), I can hit all the characters at once easily or all the pet tanks at once easily. There's nothing earth shattering about this observation, just that it is a little different than your normal boxing setup where you have characters split into two groups. I like the way this works since I can easily see everything that's going on with the pulls.

For trash pulls, I really don't mind having aggro bouncing all over the place. I have macros set up to mark and assign tanks to up to 4 targets, but in most scenarios I just let the 4-pack of Gorillas charge in and let natural variations in their Thunderstomp damage split aggro up between 2-3 of them. I set them all to Growl and compete for aggro. This means that the aggro is bouncing around a lot, which is OK since I am using a strong AoE heal in Wild Growth. I can very simply Wild Growth the pack, toss rejuv on pets that get aggro, and then use Regrowth or Lifeblooms on any target that starts taking heavy damage. (In heroics, I will probably revert back to manually assigning tank targets for 4+ elite pulls, however). The nice part about doing this from a DPS perspective is that I can have all my damage on the same target and quickly burn stuff down. Anyhow, the normal frustrations of having aggro bouncing around aren't there for me since I play the healer as main, utilize great AoE heals, and I have basically disposable tanks. If a pet DOES die, I can battle rez it in 4 seconds and keep on trucking.

For bosses, I just need much more healing on the pets, so I try to restrict the tanking to one Gorilla that I can pre-hot and keep WG, Rejuv, Regrowth, Lifebloom all going for the full duration. The Heal-over-Time efficiency doesn't concern me, since pets get such insane healing bonuses, but it's just spike damage I worry about.




homerjunior: If your boxing a 5-man team purely for hunter tanking would not 2 healers be wise? 3 hunters,Priest,Druid for example
Nah, the real magic of this setup is that I can go with a full 4xDPS classes and kill stuff faster than a traditional instance team. The only good compromise would be to run a character like an elemental shaman that would DPS on trash but then also toss a few heals during boss encounters. I don't really want to run a mixed group, though. My focus is NOT always PvE-- the core of my team is 4xHunters for BGs and raiding, and I play the healer only as a way to level and (hopefully) farm heroics.