My new set up - building for aoe [Archive]

Sam DeathWalker

12-11-2008, 09:23 PM

Well as many have guessed my first run at RAF was a disaster, getting to like level 22 on all my guys lol ... ok well

Anyway setting up my 26 new accounts now and doing things slightly differently set up wise.

Instead of 1 raf 2 raf 3 raf 4 like I was Im going

Main Pally invites all 5 group leaders (I have 5 groups plus 1 main). Each group leader then starts the group raf chain.

The reason for this is that now the Pally can group with any group and get RAF (as long as he is with the Group Leader), AND can be the tagger for ANY group, and get RAF exp ...

So now the pally can run and grab a ton of mobs, run back and tag all with consecrate and he and the other 4 in his group get all the exp. Or he can just tag during single pulls (well I guess "run to's" is more accurate in wow as you run to the mobs and not pull them to you).

I found this guide to help me aoe:

http://www.wowwiki.com/Mage_area_of_effect_locations

AND looks like on test fire nova and magnum totoms dont cause threat! WOOOOT! I guess I wont even have to drop stone claw totems even.

algol

12-11-2008, 09:54 PM

Why are you trying to do your groups in parallel instead of in series anyway?

Multibocks

12-11-2008, 11:36 PM

so does this mean you are buying 26 new accounts to set up the RAF?

Sam DeathWalker

12-12-2008, 02:27 AM

zanthor

12-12-2008, 09:40 AM

Posting to the interwebs - Free
Making huge claims and ignoring all advice offered - Free
Buying 26 copies of WoW/TBC - $780 suggested retail
Big bold face claims to be the biggest and best thing out there only to turn around and buy 26 more copies of wow due to failing at step 2 - Priceless

The retailers association appreciates your support.

I'm still bewildered... take 5 on RAF, level them to 60... don't even bother granting levels and take 5 more on RAF and level them to 60, you can even have the first team tag along to help with totemDPS since totems won't affect the XP the levelers are getting... repeat until you have 25 level 60's...

Playing 2 shaman or 24 shamans is virtually identical. With a 5 shaman group I rarely had to cast more than 2 vollies to decimate any target...

The problem with your plan is that the pally is going to vastly out level the others if you keep him in the main group. This is fine until the mobs turn gray to him, then he's a huge sucking vortex of xp drainage... In or out of group.

I think the biggest thing you haven't come to accept is that grinding is not the best way to level in WoW, period. Never has been, never will be. The absolute best XP you can get (and this applies 300% more than for RAF) is questing. Even if you only do the kill-this target quests and totally skip collections you will come out so far ahead of a player spending the same time killing shit.

Anyhow, I'm going to stop with the horse, I'm sure he's had enough.

Smahs

12-12-2008, 10:23 AM

AoE'ing normal mobs with 4 players? I don't know. If I where you I would AoE instances with 1x paladin, 2x resto druids, and a resto shaman. Pull the mobs have the druids heal you then have the shaman drop all the totems including that AoE totem and have fun. Thats to way to go if you have 4 accounts, might want to bring along a friend to heal you since you might die a lot. But if you get use to it, you well master it and have a lot of fun. You would make TONS of money too.

If you have 2 accounts and AoE it would probably be best to just AoE normal mobs.. But if you have 3, 4, or 5 do a instance. More EXP, more money, more fun, more gear, more fun.

Smahs

EDIT: Your trying to do this with 26 accounts? Wow man, thats just to insane. Not to diss you but wouldn't you rather want to get something more valuable with 500+ dol;ars (and like 300 dollars a month). just do 4 accounts, thats all you need. What could you possible do with 26 accounts that you can't do with 5 accounts. /wrists

Sam DeathWalker

12-12-2008, 03:42 PM

The problem with your plan is that the pally is going to vastly out level the others if you keep him in the main group. This is fine until the mobs turn gray to him, then he's a huge sucking vortex of xp drainage... In or out of group.

Ya that is so true I must be vigillent to keep him within 9 levels of the others. I can group him with eveyone except the group leader and he wont get raf. Is there a way to lose exp in this game? Still the advantage of looting all the time with the main is really really great.

Well aoe with 4 or 5 surely wont be as effective as aoe with 25 (and if everyone is within 9 levels then there is no exp loss). Don't mages aoe level and not quest?

badashh

12-12-2008, 03:49 PM

Make sure that you don't lose those levels you can gift. that's 25 level 11s you can have.

Sam DeathWalker

12-12-2008, 03:51 PM

emesis

12-12-2008, 04:34 PM

I already used up the granting, Im not even going to bring over the guys I made ....

But i was in limited way using the raf for the mains, its kinda neet but if you level up the last people on the chain you can gift levels up the chain. So if the last guy gets 2 levels over the guy up the chain above him he can raise that guy 1 level. It kinda breaks down as some point but is a bit of extra that dosnt hurt.

What a waste to use your RAF grant a levels at low levels.

In fact, if you level your entire set of toons to level 31.9, and then level a single toon (ok, maybe a quintet for speed and the 3x XP bonus) the rest of the way to 60, you could chain-level grant the remaining 25 or 21 toons directly from 31.9 to 60.9 in one fell swoop. Result: 26 level 60+ toons with no money and mostly level 20 or so gear. Woot!

Were I nuts enough to try to do this, this is the route I would have taken.

suprafro

12-12-2008, 05:00 PM

Sam what was the /played time investment to go levels 1-22 with your 26man team? Probably been said before but it just seems like leveling 2 teams 1-60 and then 3 more teams 1-45 (using gift levels 45-60) would be pretty efficent and could all be done with only 5 accounts...keeps you from having to maintain 21 extra accounts until you actually have 26 level 60s to use. Then when you get them all to 60 you can xfer them off to seperate accounts (im assuming 60-80 as a 26 man farming raid is the best way to roll)

Boylston

12-12-2008, 05:33 PM

I just come back to the the fundamental "Why Do This at All" question.

Seriously...

algol

12-12-2008, 06:01 PM

I just come back to the the fundamental "Why Do This at All" question.

Seriously...Well, 25 I'd see the point of, but I don't understand the supernumerary.

But Sam, really...this game isn't made to allow more than 5 people to level together with any sort of efficiency. 5x22 would be easily doable in a week or two of casual play if you did them in series. I don't really follow your strategy here.

puppychow

12-13-2008, 12:40 AM

stop picking on Sam, the economy needs a boost and Sam buying 26 new copies of WoW every 3 months is going to help out. For the next 2 years. He should be level 50 by then.

glo

12-13-2008, 01:05 AM

This guy has way more money then he does sense. Give up on this 26 account idea, it's not going to happen for you.

To put this in perspective 22 should take about 4-5 hours without RAF, it'll take you roughly 15 years to level at this rate. After 60 you won't get RAF bonus regardless of how many copies of wow you buy. Many have suggested it already and they are 100% right in this, level one character and get an idea of the basics of the game.

Sam DeathWalker

12-13-2008, 01:20 AM

We will see, I think I was about like 6 days played but lots of time standing around while one guy is doing trade skills, lots of time spent getting flight nods, lots of time spent fixing computers and tons and tons of time getting macros and UI fixed up. Im level 22ish but keep in mind I have 150 plus in all main professions. And I had zero gold when I started and no high level boosting toon. I'v had to earn as I go. I mean for my 6 days in game I spend 30-40 days worth of hours out of game doing things to help me in game ....

Also I understand the math behind the argument that its slower to level up the higher you go but given that moveing around is so much simpler at higher levels that cuts down on a lot of wasted time.

Anyway by Monday my RAF will all be back and the first thing I do is get my main ported to shatt and then raf summon all to Inn there and bind all there. That should really cut down travel time for me. And at level 30 my pal gets a mount and I cna use ghost wolf on the shammny to start moving around faster.

Ya I wasted my level grants basically, Ill be better this time.

Dont forget 26 will level slower then 5 ...

glo

12-13-2008, 01:24 AM

We will see, I think I was about like 6 days played but lots of time standing around while one guy is doing trade skills, lots of time spent getting flight nods, lots of time spent fixing computers and tons and tons of time getting macros and UI fixed up. Im level 22ish but keep in mind I have 150 plus in all main professions. And I had zero gold when I started and no high level boosting toon. I'v had to earn as I go. I mean for my 6 days in game I spend 30-40 days worth of hours out of game doing things to help me in game ....

Forget crafting professions, once(if) you get to the level cap you can get someone else to craft anything you need.

Also I understand the math behind the argument that its slower to level up the higher you go but given that moveing around is so much simpler at higher levels that cuts down on a lot of wasted time.

Anyway by Monday my RAF will all be back and the first thing I do is get my main ported to shatt and then raf summon all to Inn there and bind all there. That should really cut down travel time for me. And at level 30 my pal gets a mount and I cna use ghost wolf on the shammny to start moving around faster. Setting your port to shatt will probably make leveling slower, not faster. Set your hearth to where you are leveling and use it to save a run back to the quest hub once an hour.

Ya I wasted my level grants basically, Ill be better this time.

Dont forget 26 will level slower then 5 ... Yeah, the idea that you refuse to quest is so hard to believe I forgot you did it. Grinding 26 characters should qualify you for a check from the government.

Vicker

12-13-2008, 01:37 AM

Dont forget 26 will level slower then 5 ...

I think everybody here is trying to tell you this, yet you seem to be ignoring them. 26 will level slower than leveling 5 groups of 5 separately. Why don't you concentrate on getting one group of 5 to level 60, or maybe level 50 at least? Then go work on your second group of 5.

Also, what is 150 in all professions getting you?... Do you mean to say that you have two professions at 150 on every single one of your characters?... I'm curious, do you mow your lawn with scissors as well?

Sam DeathWalker

12-13-2008, 01:38 AM

Vicker

12-13-2008, 01:42 AM

Do mages aoe grind or do they quest?

Every mage I have seen does quests.

No I have 5 guys each with the 2 main professions at 150 plus.

Once again, why?

If you could drop 25 fire nova totems with no threat you would quest?

Because quests grant more xp.

Xinxo

12-13-2008, 01:47 AM

Also, what is 150 in all professions getting you?... Do you mean to say that you have two professions at 150 on every single one of your characters?... I'm curious, do you mow your lawn with scissors as well?
This made me laugh a little bit :)

Sam DeathWalker

12-13-2008, 02:14 AM

algol

12-13-2008, 02:23 AM

Mages with RAF do quests. Grinding is for if you're a poor sap with no RAF. As a supplement to questing.

Also, there's this little thing called the Raid XP penalty. You don't grind with a raid, it's several times slower than just doing it with five no matter what method you're employing.

If you'd leveled in series, you would probably have a few different raid teams by now. Raid XP is garbage.

Sam DeathWalker

12-13-2008, 02:31 AM

Vicker

12-13-2008, 02:31 AM

Every mage I have seen does quests.

Humm so whats the purpose of this guide then, which lists places from level 16 through one in NorthEnd.

http://www.wowwiki.com/Mage_area_of_effect_locations

To blankly claim that questing is always better then aoe grinding... seems many others have different opinions:

http://www.wowguru.com/forums/printthread.php?t=10610&page=5&pp=60

Trying to reason with you is like trying to convince that homeless guy in front of Taco Bell to stop shooting heroin.

Ask around. See if you can find anybody who went from 1-80 purely by aoe grinding.

Sam DeathWalker

12-13-2008, 03:43 AM

Ya who ever heard of mages that aoe grind:

http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.html?topicId=107621534&sid=1&pageNo=1

daviddoran

12-13-2008, 06:00 AM

Just because plenty of mages aoe grind, does not mean it's the best way to level.

but for the amount of money you paid to xfer all the toons, you could have done as suggested earlier, level up in teams of 5, which can kill 90% of EVERYTHING all by themselves. Level each team to 60, then xfer to the various accounts.

Your method of "MORE DPS = BETTER" doesn't really work outside of instances, and you cant bring more than 5 into an instance. Rock and Hard place. I only grind for items or rep. Exp is always best received from quests. Always has been, always will be.

glo

12-13-2008, 06:41 AM

I am never in a raid and never plan to be, as stated raid exp is nothing.

Pull with Pal (Pal grouped with 4 others all RAF). Concecrat with Pal to draw agro and tag mobs. Lay down 25 fire nova totems. All mobs dead and 5 toons get all the exp and group and raf bonus.

I mean as you all say why 25? Well if I am going to level 5 at a time then ya why 25. I play 26 and plan to always use 26. Why? Because I have 20 extra fire nova totems or thunderstorms ... to help the single group I am leveling.

Dont forget I have done my share of aoe:

http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/4738/eq000452nc4.th.jpg ('http://img139.imageshack.us/my.php?image=eq000452nc4.jpg')There are a very few spots in the entire game with enough mobs for even a single mage to get a good xp rate, there are 0 spots in the game for 26 characters to get a good xp rate. If you had played this game at even the most basic level you would understand how thick headed you are being. Ignorance is one thing but having a large group of experience players(boxers even) who want to see you succeed giving you the same advice over and over and over again and still ignoring it is as silly as it gets. I wouldn't say doing groups of 5 at a time would be faster but there is absolutely no way grinding can compare to questing, none, zero, zilch, and nada. The funny part is you are watching videos of mages aoe grinding and believing this is some magical way of fast leveling when in actuality they are making about the same xp they would questing and much less then what they would make questing in a group. Most of these mage videos you see are just that, mages making a video to show off their aoe capabilities, you aren't seeing the down time where they drink/bandage and travel to the next spot and then wait for the respawns.

Even if you were to manage to grind to 80 it would only prove that you are masochistic and you would more then likely require carpal tunnel surgery shortly after you ding.

glo

12-13-2008, 06:45 AM

aboron

12-13-2008, 06:47 AM

Just for comparison, I leveled an RaF group of 5 mages using ELBA's wonderful tour guide RaF multi-boxing files ( Horde and Alliance Multi Boxing RAF 1-60 Leveling Guide ('http://www.dual-boxing.com/forums/index.php?page=Thread&threadID=14471&pageNo=1&highlight=horde+level') ).

It got me 5 mages at 58-59 within 3.5 days:

http://www.ggxtech.net/played_lv59.jpg

glo

12-13-2008, 06:59 AM

60 in half the time it took him to get to 22 which isn't even extremely fast for RAF. I don't care how you do the math questing is faster ;)

blast3r

12-13-2008, 07:02 AM

Yep transfering my level 22's from my old accounts to my new accounts (I have 150 plus in all professions I dont want to lose and Im not doing that totem quest again going up that stupid mountian with 25 following taruns lol ... ) ..... so still only 26 accounts but now I can have 2 zhevras lol ... (well maybe for an alt but not planing to make alts at this point).

oh boy that would suck. lol..too bad you don't have a warlock you can use to summon them... but then holy crap the amount of shards you would have to manage.

Malekyth

12-13-2008, 11:15 AM

With all the contempt he receives for not following the herd, Sam's got to have the thickest skin in the universe. I might've stomped out long ago, slamming the door behind me for emphasis and possibly even voicing an "I'll show them! I'll show them ALL!"

Pacman23

12-13-2008, 12:11 PM

Sam

Good to see you again.

This will be the third online game we have crossed paths in.
We go all the way back to Age of Empires, then we played on Sullon Zek ( I remember attacking you with my 3-boxed Mages and their pets in Northern Ro - before you even starting boxing on the Sullon Zek beta realm)

I have 10 boxxed wow pretty extensively and my specialty is leveling up toons quickly. ( I have 2 80's atm - including a realm first DK - 10 more 70+ plus toons and another 15 or so 60 plus toons.)

I understand you want to learn to play all your toons at once - but there will be time for that once you get them leveled. Using your current plan you're going to be 10x slower and much more painful than it needs to be.

Here is how you should level your team up.

-1st don't activate all the RaF's at once.
-Having a 70 Prot pally to pull your others teams up should be the priority. So start just by Rafing the pally and one other toon of your choice together.
-Quest these 2 toons together until you get to 60.
- Then just quest the pally the rest of the way till 70 by himself - (Within a few days played you will now have a 70 Prot pally.) I'd get him some decent prot gear - prolly just buying Northrend blue/green boe's would be sufficient.
- Next quest in groups of 4 your remaining toons up from 1-15 in the Blood elf starting area.
- Now use your Pally to boost your teams of 4 thru instances all the till 60

15-20 SFK
20-43 SM
43-45 (worst part here I'd prolly do ZF but its not easy with just a prot pally boosting)
45-58 Strat
58-60 Ramps

Each team of 4 will prolly take you 2-3 played days to get you to 60 each. With 24 more toons to get to 60 that means 18 played days or so which is doable before your RaF time runs out. Using your method your Raf's are going to run out way before you begin to even sniff 60 - and I cant even imagine trying to level 24 toons with no RaF bonus to 60.

Once you get to 60 you can start to really take advantage of rested exp and prolly just quest your groups one at a time thru each of the zones in Outland. One group does Hellfire completely while all the others groups are getting rested. Then bring group 2 thru Hellfire completely etc..

Once you get to 68 or 70 I'd start the same cycle on the Northrend zones.

Good luck Sam - and trust me on this if you try and do all 26 at once you're prolly looking at 6-12 months before you hit 60 and it would be doubtful if you could get them to 80 before the next expansion hits.

Pacman23

Dominian

12-13-2008, 01:41 PM

Why all 25 toons at once?

I mean i can likley get a 5 man team to 60 in 1 day and 10 hours, maybe less if i dont slack to much..

Since i know were all the good quests etc are it should take you abit more..

Maybe 2-3 days played? Alot less after you done one or two teams!

Now you will be sitting with your 26 guys at level 60 within 15 days played

I dont realy see the point WHY you have to aoe grind when its just SO much slower.

One of the reason 3x xp is so fast is because you can skip ALL the grind quests in azeroth and just do kill quests wich is super fast with a 5 man team!

mikekim

12-13-2008, 02:57 PM

just look at it this way sam,

If you would have taken everyones advice that you have been given here, then in the 6 days /played time you have for your 26 toons to get to lvl 22 you could have levelled 3x5 toons to lvl 60 (average 2 days played time to 60) and granted another 7 toons up to 60 for free.

so in 8 days played all your toons would have been at lvl 60.

I know which way i would have chosen, and i'm sure Blizzard thanks you for the way you have chosen :P

Sam DeathWalker

12-13-2008, 04:10 PM

Hey Pacman, nice to see someone from the Age of Empires days! Good times for sure. Man I can't even remember how it is to play with one computer anymore lol ...

Well we will see, respawn rates are important also for sure. Ya questing does seem overall faster but it sure is a real pain with 26 ...

All these 1-60 in a few days stuffs isn't counting getting professions, and seems to assume you start with unlimited gold oh and they DONT loot either, also I doubt defensive skills get maxed either, and although I lost 3 months in my first RAF, by far most of that time was offline. If you add in professions to 300 plus on all 5 (2 professions each), starting with zero gold and looting everything and having decent skills, no one is going from 1-60 with 3 days played.

Also I have lots of downtime when one guy is going to the AH or another guy is doing Blacksmithing everyone else is doing absolutly nothing so my days played will never be low.

I think its fair to say I got to level 26 in like 3 days of play time killing mobs, all the rest was doing other stuffs.

Its foolish to say it took me 90 days to get to level 26, when maybe 3 days of that was actually killing stuffs. Iv been busy in RL and Iv leared lua programing, macros of all kinds, UI set up and the like, and now all my computers are stable as well. You build a house by starting with a stong foundation and I am ready for Part 2!

Ya instance boosting also makes a lot of sense, we will see, Ill try my way first and if its not working as good as I hope its on to something else.

I really am loath to try any method that does not use all 26 of my firepower, those who play 5 or 10 dont level up one at a time for good reason and for the exact same reason someone who plays 25 might not be wise to level up 5 at a time.

We will see, I am looking forward to 25 nova totems with the new patch being non agro and if it works it works if not well ... on to something else.

Low level shaman have not every had aoe opportunities untill very recently ... of course when others leveled up their shaman teams aoe grinding was unwise, but times have changed, even the upcoming change of no threat for nova totems is a big big step up for aoe capabilities. Also aoe isnt a simple task eaither, in EQ for sure the smallest error is a complete wipe, I am sure WoW is simpler but its not a skill that everyone has. But ya lack of mobs is always going to be the holdup, but with 26 toons in one area mobs spawn a bit faster no matter where you are.

Xzin

12-13-2008, 05:20 PM

You build a house by starting with a stong foundation and I am ready for Part 2!

Except instead of doing research into what does and what does not work, you poured the foundation and then realized while it was setting up that you forgot to pour the forms. Or the fact that it was to rain that afternoon.

Now you have to shell out a bunch more to buy new accounts and then pay to transfer them all over.

I enjoy your optimism but I remain pessimistic that you will rocket to level 80 and own face in..... Wintergrasp and nowhere else. Ever heard of vehicles?

This is like watching a slow train wreck.

Xzin

12-13-2008, 05:23 PM

[p]ossibly even voicing an "I'll show them! I'll show them ALL!"

I continue to wait for Sam to show us anything that Prepared has not done.

Hell, a 10x level 70 boxer has 700 combined levels - Sam managed 25 times what? Level 26? That's only 650. And I know several level 70 10 boxers that are probably pushing 80 by now.

glo

12-13-2008, 06:42 PM

Turenn

12-13-2008, 07:01 PM

Sam don't forget that mobs that are killed by totems only, don't yield any experience. So you still have to do at least some damage to all of the mobs then drop the totems.

And if you look at this from a logical point of view I'm sure you will see that leveling up 5 teams of 5 will get you to 80 faster then doing them all at once. And while you are in the progress of rerolling monster style. Add a few more classes. 5 Shammies, 5 Druids, 5 hunters, and 5 mages/locks, and 1 Main tank, 1 Off tank/healer, 3 more healers, will benefit you alot more than 25 shammies. And you'll still own world pvp.

And wha't with the 26th account?

You say you are the best, now prove it. Break 25 man Naxx alone and I'll never doubt you again.

algol

12-13-2008, 07:35 PM

Tur, I think that's what the consecrate was for.

Littleburst

12-13-2008, 07:44 PM

If he didn't had those screenies i'd say he was one of the most funny trolls ever.

It only gets worse and worse.

Just hire some people to level the chars up for you, would be a lot cheaper and faster anyway.

edit:
For your own good, go try and find a place where you can in your words "lvl up effectively by AoEing" with a few chars, then imagine how long you're waiting for respawns with 26.

Xzin

12-13-2008, 08:30 PM

I leveled up with AoE. But only with 5 characters at once and I was in an instance so respawn wasn't an issue.

Sam DeathWalker

12-13-2008, 09:10 PM

xcept instead of doing research into what does and what does not work,

And yet while in the therycraft period I was told that I should not spend so much time at it ....

I leveled up with AoE. But only with 5 characters at once and I was in an instance so respawn wasn't an issue.

Well... so purhaps there is a bit of disagreement as to if quests or aoe is better ...

I agree that respawn time is the key to the whole thing. Yet no one knows what respawn time is if 26 are in the vacinity. I know those gnolls in the swap zone sometimes were respawning right on me, and thats killing one at a time, so no one can say there are no instant spawn camps. And few even know if you kill all the mobs in the area if they dont all respawn back at the same time ...

Lets not forget that in EQ I leveled up more then anyone. Im basically 3 days played here, and 290 days played over there ...

Don't forget that Prepared, as excellent as he has done, does not use jamba, keyclone, macaroon or most any addon at all. 3 months ago I didnt know what lua was, yet now I am pretty much able to make macros do as much as they are abel to do. In your opinion is it better to use these tools or just jump in and level up as fast as you can with the default UI? If you think that these tools are better for the long run then you will agree that there is a learning curve and that is what I have been doing these last 90 days. Plus I have stable computers with what, in my opinion, is by far and away the best hardware set up. Everyone else takes whatever computers they have at hand and toss them together, mine are made from the ground up for what I do. Right now I am the only person who can brodcast a single ui to 5 other computers and 25 other characters, log in and ONLY have to move the professions macros from the spell book to the bar. I dont have to load ANY profiles, titanbar shows where I set it on the first UI, everything is just like the original UI, all macros are where they were placed on the first UI. That took me over a week of work to do. But now I can change something, spend about 5-10 mintues to broadcast it (I use copy muppy, macroexpress3 and microsoft word to do it lol), and bang, add in the professions and Im all set to go!

Iv been in the thousand needles zone mostly as of last and Im not seeing a shortage of mobs, I start at one end of those centar things and kill up the southside then come back and kill down the northside, by the time I am done the first mobs have respawned already, and with looting and mining slowing me down there seems no problem.

In my own words the first attempt was a complete disaster ... lets see how the 2nd attempt goes.

Ya and as for that EQ screen shot, apparently someone had enough skill to pull not only the north side of Plane of Nightmare (see the gobs and dead wraits) but managed to get the South side (trees and consorts) ALSO in the same pull. Humm ...

Bigfish

12-13-2008, 10:06 PM

Sad thing is I'm putting my 25 man raid together, and Sam will will yet to hit 30 by the time I get them to 60.

welwyn

12-14-2008, 10:46 AM

rather than try and change his mind help the man with what he asks. he has shown that he has more money than sense here lol so no point trying to change him.

I agree that respawn time is the key to the whole thing. Yet no one knows what respawn time is if 26 are in the vacinity. I know those gnolls in the swap zone sometimes were respawning right on me, and thats killing one at a time, so no one can say there are no instant spawn camps. And few even know if you kill all the mobs in the area if they dont all respawn back at the same time ... instant respawns are ingame. you did stumble across one in wetlands with the gnolls level 28 ish iirc? there is also 1 in duskwood above the main town there level 32 ish that respawn instantly if you kill them another will respawn within that area. spread your toons out and just AOE mash the area. i will look into a few others for you (i did actually quest most of my groups up) but i did stumble across them few. i did find that 1-5 was the starting area in NE place there is some little demons that respawn same area when 1 dies. 5-15 its above IF they keep running at you at the old airport ( its impossible to get there unless you have my handy group of 3 warlocks up there) 15-24 i quested 24-31 it was them grolls in wetlands 31-37 it was the duskwood mobs. from 37 onwards it took way to long so i quested. but that should help you out a bit for now. good luck and please post some wow videos of your wow army!

Sam DeathWalker

12-14-2008, 04:59 PM

Now thats a helpfull response!

Ifalna

12-14-2008, 05:12 PM

I think you are seriously underestimating mob spawn time.

You have to do this out in the open. You can kill your group of mobs, get the exp on 5 chars, great. Then wait. And wait. And wait. Then do it again for 5 more. And wait. And wait.
The spawns in that guide are tiny. Like 10 mobs usually, and they have to be specific melee types to aoe down efficiently..
Level them in groups of 5, then play the "endgame" you are aiming for. It is not going to work any other way, but then again, you are not going to listen and try it yourself regardless.

So best of luck I guess.

glo

12-14-2008, 07:23 PM

Now thats a helpfull response!Not really, all he did was give you hope that what you are trying to do is going to work.

Even if you could setup to kill those mobs as soon as they spawn there are not enough of them to give you a decent xp rate and you still have to run around consecrating to tag. There literally is no spot in the game a group of 26 can get good xp aoe grinding like you are considering. Yes grinding with your setup is braindeadeningly easy/boring but it will take many times longer then walking around doing quests. Either way is going to take a long time but questing is going to be faster and give you money, gear, and rep.

Starbuck_Jones

12-14-2008, 07:38 PM

Wow Deathwalker. Ive always liked you from the EQ days and playing with Fires of Heaven etc. Ive read this list so ill have to put my 2cents in but I dont think its anything that hasnt already been said.

First off, Grouping 4lows with a level 60+ to AOE boost with RAF only works in instances, and only if your booster can grab the whole instance and nuke it down in under 10min or so a run. If you need proof, take your 70, group with 4 level 1's and see how much xp they get off non-leet mobs. It will be like this for all 60 levels. Trust me, I just went through this on 2RAF accounts. Level 1, they got 1xp a kill. Level 59, they were getting 90xp a kill. Trying to do it this way is exactly like the south park episode killing boars for 1xp a shot. Only reason the instance boosting works is speed, volume and that eliet mobs give 2x xp per kill. Check out Hobbs AOE grinding videos here, http://www.youtube.com/user/wowhobbs If you cant aoe an instance like that or close to it, then dont bother leveling this way.

It seems like your idea to leveling is based on mob tagging and from what ive experimented with its not going to work, Mobs that are killed by high level people will yeild no xp to the low person that tagged it. Nova totems like pets might be different, but other than the cool factor of having all thoes novas go off its gonna be just like mowing your lawn with scissors.

Next and I think this is going to be the most important factor to consider for ya Deathwalker. Recruit a Friend. You have 3 months of tripple XP and level passups to a maximum of level 60. That one sentance needs to be your primary focus as you level your 25 shamen to 60 EVERYTHING else needs to be secondary, Gold, Tradeskills, (insert non leveling thing here). I completely understand your desire to do tradeskills and the like. My first 'cluster' I had all 5 to tailoring, (1priest and 4 mages), and one did enchanting. It was nice, but looking back now, Other than one enchanter the tailoring was a waste of time and a money sink I couldnt afford.

I just finished leveling a paladin and shaman to 60 on Saturday, the paladin is all I wanted and shes now 63 for my mage cluster, I did this with RAF. It took 46hours played time to get them to 60. I did this completely by questing. I grouped the 2 with 3 of my mages and just blew through quests, They didnt get any real xp from mob kills, but I remember at level 50 something when I finished the Cauldren quests in Western Plaugelands and with the RAF bonus got over 40k xp for the turn in. NOTHING beats that. Every quest you complete is like finishing 3. Do 5 quests and you get the xp of having done 15. Do 10 quests and the xp of 30. I remember getting the Acheivement for 50 quests completed. I may have only done 50 quests, but I got 150 quests worth of xp. It was about 20min after getting the 250 quests complete acheivement that my paladin hit level 60. I ran ZF once to complete like 4 quests I had there, and that was the only time I went to an instance with her.

Hopefuly I as well as others have convinced you that questing is the way to level, let me address what seems to be your other hold up. Money.
Do not let your desire to do tradeskills handycap your ability to level. If you only have 1g and you can either buy the next rank of Lightning Bolt, or a stack of tradskill items. Buy the spell. When I leveled my pally and shaman to 60, the Shaman had about 60g more in training costs than the paladin. I gave each 100g for training and flight path money, At 60, the paladin had about 95g left and the shaman had around 30g. You stated you dont have a sugar daddy toon to hand out money, hell supporting 25 toons is going to be expensive for anyone, so your going to need to budget. My advice is to become a one trick pony. Update your lightning bolt spell and healing spell and thats it chain lightning/healing when you get there. Do you need to buy the 140 other enhancement spells that you never use? When do you get thoes other spells? Level 60 when you can afford them. And thats how your going to get your gold. Dont upgrade these accounts to the burning crusade untill your ready. Once you hit 60, do some more quests and get the ubar coin instead of XP, this is also where I would do the tradeskills that you love so much. I would repeat the gold questing at level 70 too before going to WotLK.

In the end though Sam, Do what you have the most fun with and dont let anyone tell you different.

tushygalore

12-14-2008, 08:03 PM

ok kiddles, the real issue here is dorkwaloker wants to level up his trade skillz as he levels. aside from all the 7th graders giving you grief ,lol its wow. or diablo 2.3 or something

blizard doesnt knoiw anything abvout games. so they made all tyhe tradeskills twink. you level up to 60 then buy your trade skill and thro in 4 hours time. lol perfect for all the battlenet bitches who just gotta level leet5.

dorkwalker inconsiously is trying to compensate for the gimp trade skillz by aoeing, which shows he is capable of critical thinking which shows hes in the wrong game probably and the wrong forum definately

Starbuck_Jones

12-14-2008, 08:13 PM

I dont know how far youve gotten into setting this new RAF system up, but I took a moment to draw out what I feel would be the optimum setup for you to choose. Look at http://www.flickr.com/photos/27177242@N08/3108921066/

Group 1 is 5 shamen out of your 25. Do this 4 times each to level 60. Then create a Second group consisting of your main account (square with a 1) and 4 of the others. Level them to 30 and then use the gift levels from group 1 to get that second group to 60. And if you want, transfer the 60 toon from your main account to the last account on the end there that doesnt get the gift levels. If you stick your main account at the top instead of the side, You have to level 5 groups instead of 4, and the level boosting will only benifit 4 accounts instead of 5 so you loose out quite a bit there. Also you will be able to create easily any 5 man group you want this way in group 2 very quickly or another 25 man group in half the time.

Sam DeathWalker

12-14-2008, 08:55 PM

I am set up the way you show in your picture.

All my guys are within 4 levels of each other (including the main) and I plan to keep them within 9 levels so everyone always gets full exp.

Ok if I level up the 5 that you have labled g1-60, who can they give raf levels to except the main? You cant give levels except to your inviter and you cant group with most anyone cept your inviter (and invitee) to get raf.

But I thinking from your ideas is that I might be able to group the main (pal who has to tag) with 4 of a group and then as they get exp they can grant levels to the guy that wasnt in the group, and by somehow alternating the odd man out there would be a way to gift a lot of levels in that manner. Lets say you have the Main (M) who invited Leader (1) who invited 2 who invited 3 etc.

If a group of M and 1 and 4 and 5 were to get 2 levels then 4 could gift a level to 3. Then group M 2 3 4 5 (main wont get raf) and 2 could gift to 1 after 2 levels so there is some possibility to get some gifting.

I cant see how you plan to gift levels from your diagrma as once the first group is 60, who can they raf to? Unless you are talking about doing 2 transfers, one to the group that got to level 60 and then after the transfers get to level 30 transfer them to their final spot.

Right now I am not planing to level up more toons then 26 but of course if at the end of this RAF I have levels to gift I will use them to make alts.

Well ya even now I am buying just minimal spells, shocks, LB, totems (offensive and stone claw) ... still it adds up, say to level 25 I have to spend 60G on spells for all guys ... that 60G dosnt come from quests ...

The only real issue is mob respawn rate, either they will spawn fast enought to make aoe viable or they won't. Ill know by the middle/end of next week.

dorkwalker inconsiously is trying to compensate for the gimp trade skillz by aoeing, which shows he is capable of critical thinking which shows hes in the wrong game probably and the wrong forum definately
Kinda hard to figure out if I am the one being insulted or if everyone else is .... ?

Sam DeathWalker

12-14-2008, 09:10 PM

Even if you could setup to kill those mobs as soon as they spawn there are not enough of them to give you a decent xp rate and you still have to run around consecrating to tag.

Well there is two ways to do this. I can pull with the pally, just run around grab up mobs with proximity agro or the new 30 yard palladin taut (not in game yet) then bring them to the shamans and consecat (one time), then drop the fire nova totems (no agro so all the mobs stay on the palladin), all mobs die and the Pal and 4 shaman get all the exp.

The other possibility is to run all 26 into a few groups of mobs, stop dead, concecrate then fire nova. This might result in some shaman getting hit by some mobs while they lag into the pal. As soo as they reach the pal his consecrate will take the agro. This has the advantage of being on the move so you can pick up more mobs basically as you dont have a set camp. Also although most mobs seem teathered and stop chasing after awhile i ahve seen some mobs (those ones to the right looking out north from thousand needles to barrens) that donst stop chasing for 1/2 a zone or more. Anyway just run around and pick up 10-20 mobs by proximity agro and then finally stop drop concecrate and fire nova totems and rack up the exp. The head off to the next area.

What I am really hoping for is spots like gnolls in wetlands where I can run in 26 to the middle of thier camp, consecrate and drop fire nova toems and kill 8 or so mobs and then have them all spawn again instantly, even while the first concecate is still up ... if THAT works well ...

keyclone

12-14-2008, 09:28 PM

here's a thought... what if you brought 5 groups (1x prot pally + 4x arc mages) to a standard 5-man instance.

walk each group into their own instance. once inside, the mob layout is pretty much the same.

advance your pallies at once, in 5 separate instances, gather aggro and aoe to death across all 5 instances at once

i would steer the pallies using the right-click/run-to movement mechanism in wow... and just click each one as needed (since the pov would be different for each). this would allow you to group heal/aoe/consecrate across all instances at once while also leveling up each group like a normal 5 man.

thoughts?

Starbuck_Jones

12-14-2008, 09:33 PM

First off, yes as long as anyone who is RAF'ed and within 4 levels of each other the RAF accounts get 3x xp regardless of who else is in the group. I just did this. 2 accounts linked with RAF and grouped a full 5man.

If you level the group that I have tagged as G1. They pass gift levels one account to the left. So the main account (square with a 1) and the next 4 over get the grant levels. So when group 1 gets to 60, thoes have 30 free levels to give to all of group 2, thus only level group 2 to 30. Thats also why I have the line that says transfer the guy on the main acount to that last account on the right because its the only one that doesnt get the free levels. else you will have extra level 60's on the main account and the 4 accounts on the far right will be short.

Heres another pic that I hope helps. Main account RAF's A, Account A RAF's B. etc etc.
Group 1 is accounts abcde. All 5 get RAF 3x xp bonus and when they get to level 60. each account has 30 level grants. to pass up the chain. So account e passes 30 levels to d. all the way to where account a passes to the main account.
This is why group 2, thats the main account 1abcd only has to get to level 30.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/27177242@N08/3108314545/

Now the guy you level to 60 this way on the main account you need to transfer to account e, other wise if you go back to the first picture, your main account is going to have like 4 extra level 60's on it.

Theres actualy a lot more free levels to pass to the left but lets not get overly complicated.

Zub

12-14-2008, 09:37 PM

why do you care about agro on Nova totems? 5 of those totems will kill anything of level, so who cares about threat.
25 totems is just overkill, and therefore a waste of time and mana.

Mages have been aoeing groups of mobs since the dawn of time. That's what they are good at.
Need those 8 items for a quest ? no problems > gathers 10 mobs > Aoe all > loot > turn in quest.
I aoe farm on my paladin as well. note the main word is "farm", not "level" (she's 80 anyway). AOE farming is great for the reputation grinds. For leveling do quests.

You say your first RAF was a disaster, and funnily enough you're doing exactly the same thing for this second attempt.
I need to buy more popcorn.

just curious, how much gold have you made from your crafting professions? (including how much you might have spent to level them to 150)
Now, how much do you think you would have made with only the 3 gathering professions, after selling all the mats you got from those.

in any case, good luck with attempt #2, i'm sure you'll get to 30 at least this RAF.
And then another 2-3 RAF and you'll be 60! :-) woohoo

Sam DeathWalker

12-14-2008, 09:42 PM

here's a thought... what if you brought 5 groups (1x prot pally + 4x arc mages) to a standard 5-man instance.

walk each group into their own instance. once inside, the mob layout is pretty much the same

With some lot of work that might not be as impossible as it sounds. Although moveing stright is fessable, one you turn one guy facing 80 and another at 81 degress they start to seperate, well humm I guess with auto follow and just sending key strokes to the leader ... well its something to try, I dont see anything impossible about it. Well with my set up I can control any indivdual toon a sgood as anyone with a 3 or so seconds delay getting to the toon. Humm ...

i would steer the pallies using the right-click/run-to movement mechanism in wow Umm I can move my mouse sycronislys (sort of its not perfeect) on 5 screens (setting the resolution the same for all and the mouse speed the same for all) and then click with one mouse key, going to all 5 computers (leader only). Well hummm ... this sure needs looking into.

just curious, how much gold have you made from your crafting professions? (including how much you might have spent to level them to 150)
Now, how much do you think you would have made with only the 3 gathering professions, after selling all the mats you got from those.

All my income basically is from selling iron bars and the basic disenchanted dust (cant advance with it anymore). I would have more money just from mining and selling (well the dust sales kinda paying for the loss to get the other professions up and I wouldnt have green items to disenchant without tailor/bs/leather).

Sam DeathWalker

12-14-2008, 09:53 PM

Group 1 is accounts abcde. All 5 get RAF 3x xp bonus and when they get to level 60. each account has 30 level grants. to pass up the chain. So account e passes 30 levels to d. all the way to where account a passes to the main account.

Right but passes to what character? 5 new shamane who then transfer to other new accouts at level 30? You can't pass to other level 60's ....

Level the shaman up to 30 on other acocunts then move them to the first accounts then level them to 60 instantly then transfer them back to their origianl accounts? Not sure if you can transfer more then every 30 days ...

Ok then you have 5 accounts with a level 60 and a level 30 on them. Then what?

Starbuck_Jones

12-14-2008, 10:03 PM

No, This would be how to level a second set of toons to 60 super easy. you will still level the first 25 shamen normally but you can get 25 new guys to 60 for the effort of leveling to 30, Thus you dont have to do shamen on group 2 Do like 5 paladins, mages, druids, warlocks. It says in the RAF faq's that if you transfer a toon you loose all unused gift levels they have, also the 30 time limit is to the toon, not the account. I guess if you are only looking to get 25 shamen as fast as possable the way I have it set up its like a pyramid scheme. It will prolly be totaly confusing so you would have to chart it out. because the guy you got to level 30 and gifted to 60 now has 30 levels to pass up the chain. Give me a few min and ill do it.

Sam DeathWalker

12-14-2008, 10:06 PM

Right now Im not planing to do alts, the only way I can beat prepared is to have guys stronger then his and thats going to be impossible if I dont focus on just my 1 pal and 25 shaman (I might add 10 more accounts though).

You know the more i think about Keyclones idea the more it dosnt seem impossible. Lets say I even have a 10 second delay going from instance leader to instance leader, I dont have to do all sycronisoly. Do group 1, 10 seoncds later (and its really like 2-3) move group 2, 10 seconds later group 3 etc. Well umm bad thing is that I would have to wait abit on first group if I drop totems with one press. Well moving the leaders with arrow keys they might not EACH go perfectly but it should be close enough. I gonna check out an instance as soon as I get online (1-2 more days for all the toons to move to the new accounts).

algol

12-14-2008, 10:09 PM

Right now Im not planing to do alts, the only way I can beat prepared is to have guys stronger then his and thats going to be impossible if I dont focus on just my 1 pal and 25 shaman (I might add 10 more accounts though).
If that's your goal, okay, but you should take a serious look at the TTL your strategy is going to give versus the others outlined, and there's one thing you should really keep in mind.

You are not Prepared.

Sam DeathWalker

12-14-2008, 10:11 PM

Number 2 tries harder.

Also I could be at say 2 or 3 differnt camps at the same time ... only one Pal though ouch. Well drat I would need at least 5 more pal for Keyclone plan to work, cause as pointed out killing only wiht totems is zero exp. Still when the shaman get thunderstorm no tagger is needed. Might be possible to /targetenemy and hit a few before totem ... still. Ok level 32 is chain lightnign that should tag enough to not need a tagger.

keyclone

12-14-2008, 10:21 PM

i suggest using the 'move to mouse click spot' mechanism so you can instruct pally #1 (P1) to a spot and while he is running to it... with his mages in tow... you could click P2 to do the same... repeat for all pallies.

then, hit consecrate and arcane exp to all toons at once across all 5 instances. keep arc exp until all dead. scan around looking for anyone that needs healing. then loot.

once you empty the instance, walk out, reset and repeat.

good for xp and loot

keyclone

12-14-2008, 10:25 PM

the highest dps pve group i have created was the prot-pally + 4x pom-pyro mages.
the pally held the aggro and was survivable, plus could heal when needed.

the biggest worry was insuring the mages didn't get aggro... since they can be quite squishy

you should be able to run instances fairly quick once the mobs are manageable (go in too early and its a bit rough)

Sam DeathWalker

12-14-2008, 10:29 PM

I doubt I will move to mages, but at level 32 I could do with shaman only. Not perfectly but good enough I thinks. Ya move to a ground spot while in overhead view surly has some possibilities.

Bigfish

12-14-2008, 10:52 PM

Bottom line is if you're going to level 6 groups simultaneously, aoe isn't going to be the way to do it. Really, you would want to find an instant-spawn camp with 6 different spawn points, park a group in front of each, and lay waste to everything as it spawns.

Starbuck_Jones

12-14-2008, 11:10 PM

I dont know Deathwalker, I spent the last hour or so trying to see how you could stack the accounts in series to get out of leveling some and the best I could do is manualy leveling 3 groups of 5 to 60 and they level grant 9 to 60 instantly but thats only 24 toons not 25/26 Prolly the quickest way would be to chain them all together one after another and start at the bottom. Get group 1 to 60, then each subsequent group only has to get to level 30. Once you get leveling to 30 down, you should be able to do it in an afternoon, if you quest... But your going to have a lot of character transfers to do and they are going to be no gear/no spells so youll have to farm.

Starbuck_Jones

12-14-2008, 11:44 PM

No, I figured it out. with 6 accounts you can get exactly 25 level 60 toons by leveling 3 groups of 5 to 60. But your still looking at paying for 20 character transfers. This is all a moot point if you already created your accounts etc. But create a 5man group out of accounts abcde. Level to 60. Use accounts bcde to give you 2 instant level 60s on account a. You should now have 3 guys on account a to gift levels to account 1 so instant level one there. So in total you should have 8 level 60 toons and one guy on account 'a' that still has 30 levels to grant. Repeat this process for another 5man group but this time account 1 will get 2 instant levels instead of 1 giving you 9 new toons for 17 total, Rinse repeat a 3rd time for 8 new guys for a total of 25 toons. You should still have 30 gift levels on account A left over so level your paladin to 30 on account 1 and gift to 60 and poof. theres your 26 man team. You can midigate some transfer costs if you level the groups on different subsets of accounts but set up the same way. End up with 10 transfers instead of 20.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/27177242@N08/3109498152/

Sam DeathWalker

12-15-2008, 02:07 AM

If I was going to level up groups seperatly thats a very smart way to do it, because you have four feeding the one you get instand high levels on the one. Thats a lot more optimal the chain inviting. Looks to be the best way I think for sure.

But I have moved all but 9 to the new accounts (waiting on name changes and one guy had mail... ) so ...

What I plan to do, because I need the PAL in the exp group all the time to tag (at least untill level 32), is to be in your original formation (1 invites 5 who then chain down 4 more), and have the Pal group with bcde. I.e. Pal invites all the a's of 5 groups then they invite the b's who invite the c's etc.

So if the Pal group with bcde (Pal dont get raf though) then when bcde of the 4 the first one who gets to a new level, lets say all are 25, and d hits 26 first ... d gets c to 26 who gets b to 26, doing this at some point b stockpiles a lot of levels and grants to a. Over the whole course I think Ill use up most of the gifting levels, have to sit down and figure it out. And whoever get to high just sits out, if D gets 2 levels above the others then I run with PAL/abce (no raf for e though). ONly when B or C sit out do all get RAF, I think by always sitting the highest that I should do well. And if Pal not getting raf thats means nothing cause he is always in the exp group, at least until level 32 on the shaman.

With 25 totems you can kill mobs a bit higher then you can with 5 or 10, so although its a lot of overkill and wasted mana, how mana is wasted if you level up the groups seperatly? The 4 groups that are sitting in the inn dont generate any mana ...

But if Keyclone plan works then Ill be at multiple camps or instances at the same time.

Youngceo

12-15-2008, 07:15 AM

This guy has to be a bigger attention whore than any female I know

The fact your stupid enough to try something like that and not even think it through to be fool-proof (which isnt that hard with something like a game where you KNOW the princple factors aint gonna change) only to fuck it all up, then go out and buy a spastic amount of new accounts and pay transfer fees for level 20 something chars only shows you far lack the intelligence to have earnt the financial freedom you currently have on your own.

If only whoever left you your inheritance only took the time to teach you the value of money. I havnt bothered reading all the thread but im sure its been stated a number of times you've got more money then sense.

Quit while your behind and go see a financial advisor if your not capable of planning your own future before you piss what you have left down the drain and finally realise how fucking stupid you've been.

keyclone

12-15-2008, 01:14 PM

@Youngceo

to be honest, you just echo'd the exact statements i hear from single boxers whenever i roll into orgrimmar the first time on a server.

if Sam wants to spend his time and money, it's up to him to figure out how... and has zero to do with your or anyone else's approval.

let's keep it friendly.

asonimie

12-15-2008, 01:39 PM

Quit while your behind and go see a financial advisor if your not capable of planning your own future before you piss what you have left down the drain and finally realise how fucking stupid you've been./agree with Keyclone

and also... Despite his posted youthful pictures in viking garb.. those are very old, and Sam is advanced in years. I don't think hes interested in planning for his future financially, this IS his future :P

and btw: Crazybadger (eq) says hi.

Sam DeathWalker

12-15-2008, 03:20 PM

Hey Badger how ya doing, nice to see so many people from the old days.

$200/month is a lot of money to someone, purhaps like the above critic, with $10,000 in da bank.

$200/month is chump change to me. The advantage of winning at life is that I have money to "waste".

You want financial advise: Bailouts will continue and the government will not raise taxes or cut entitlement programes, they will print money to fund the 2 or so trillion total of the bailouts over the next year, which will reduce the value of the dollor (as there will be more dollars in ciruclation) which will increase the price of everything (inflation). Thus Sam DeathWalker says that there will be a minimum of 30 percent inflation (very high by current standards) of all goods over the next 5 years. I type it here now and we will see if I am right 3-5 years from now.

Im 55 with an IQ of 144 (mensa supervised california standard aptitude test); I will surely give your critisium all the consideration that it deserves.

And you are right on one point I am in WoW basically soly for the fact that more people play it (of course they have done a lot right, I just hate the way my characters look though and the cartoon look of the world. Also look at Freeport comparded to Orgimar ... I mean the new freeport is like you would actually expect a city to be, Org is well like a cartoon city, also no where in wow is "ominous" or "threathing" I mean there is no immersion, but a LOT has been done right thats for sure also).

Rin

12-15-2008, 03:26 PM

You say you are the best, now prove it. Break 25 man Naxx alone and I'll never doubt you again.

Haha, 25 shaman would get worked in Naxx so quick, it wouldn't even be fair.

Sam,

Why don't you buy a guild? Do like the guy from the United Arab Emirates did and just pay people to play for you, under your guild. You seem to have the resources to do such a thing. That way, you can tell everyone: "See, I win. I have 25 of the best geared players in the entire world in my guild. I have all access to their accounts, I have it all. There are no achievements that I can't do, and there is nothing that I can't attain. I win WoW. GG."

Who cares if you can't do it by yourself when you "own" the characters that can do it for you? At least that way you can proclaim that you've defeated WoW, and surely no one will be able to doubt you. :thumbup:

Sam DeathWalker

12-15-2008, 03:29 PM

Well I play for fun lets not forget, sure I want to win, but I also enjoy killing mobs lol ...

Look the thread right next to mine, where are all the "you are a fool/moron/attention whore/idiot/money waster/non compos mentis to aeo when you can quest" guys at in this thread:

Switching out a mage for a shaman, or, how do I boost a lvl 63 shaman to 80? ('http://www.dual-boxing.com/forums/index.php?page=Thread&threadID=17486')

To Quote Fat Tire from that thread:

I just had my shamans in a group and the DK out of group. Shamans following the DK around, DK would round up AOE mobs and start dmging them. I did a EM/TS with the 4 shamans and it killed them all pretty much. 2k+ exp per mob 15-20k per pull. 400-500k exp/hr

Rin

12-15-2008, 03:31 PM

Wouldn't it be more fun to be able to proclaim that you've beaten WoW though? I mean... that does seem to be your goal, right? At least that way you could LOL at anyone who hasn't achieved what you've done in the game/in your funded guild.

Sam DeathWalker

12-15-2008, 03:34 PM

You don't win if you don't play the characters ....

Rin

12-15-2008, 03:34 PM

You win if you own all of the characters though. :thumbup:

Sam DeathWalker

12-15-2008, 03:36 PM

You can't be the best car racer in the world if you don't drive the car ....

Rin

12-15-2008, 03:40 PM

Hey, question

I'm just trying to clarify one thing: Are you making 5? new Paladins to go along with your teams so that you can do the instance bosses in sync, as Keyclone has mentioned?

Sam DeathWalker

12-15-2008, 03:49 PM

Im going to try his idea at level 32 when I can tag without a Pal (chain lightniing, not perfect but 5 /targetenemy CL should hit most of the mobs in the proximity). But I will also try with a Pal in one instance now and see whats up (with the others not tagging in other instances just to test it out), maybe it is the way to go. I like the idea a lot. But then what can I do with 5 mellee and 21 shaman later ... well maybe mages if they get aoe at level 20, just anything that will do some actual aoe damage. I mean as some shaman is doing dps all the time, subbing in mages for dps (well 5 anyway) dosnt seem that dumb. Of couse they would not be taren.

Aethon

12-15-2008, 04:40 PM

Wow, Rob, that idea for the concurrent instance grinding has to be the single most original thought I've seen in a long time!

Only thing to worry about is mobs that run and facing, but I bet if you prestage all your tanks (pallys) to back into a corner, then you don't have to worry about the mobs getting behind you. Also, if you can keep an eye out for when to throw a frost nova or earthbind totem or other such limited cc spells, it might not be so bad.

TheBigBB

12-15-2008, 05:11 PM

Take a look at my guild in my signature. All those characters are mine, with 10 accounts between them, but I could easily have a 26 man team setup from this. I started boxing for real when I registered on this site. I had a few characters from before, but 75% of those are new characters since a few months ago. I never level more than 5 at once because I want the gold and reputation and general feeling of having REAL characters. Meaning, I want to feel that when I play a guy by himself for some reason that this character is a normal character and not some multibox slapped-together gimp. Leveling from 1-60 is extremely quick and easy with 5 at a time doing RAF questing.

Here are my leveling rates for 5 hours played per night for 5 toons at once: 1-60 takes 5 nights of work. 60-70 takes 7 nights. 70-80 takes 25 nights. This includes questing almost every quest I can do and taking the time to mine and herb and skin and whatnot. At this rate, I would have 25 fully featured characters from 1-80 in 210 nights. This is not a rough estimate, but almost like clockwork for how I play the game. It's been very consistent for me. In the past 32 days or so, I got one team from 1-65 and now my main team will hit 80 tonight. I even took two days just to level professions! Anyway, think 200-210 nights for 25 characters to 80. That's not bad at all, considering how some people on this site have quit the game over even going from 70-71.

Sam, you really ought to work on a smaller scale and then combine it later on. REALLY.

Talamarr

12-15-2008, 06:00 PM

Wow, Rob, that idea for the concurrent instance grinding has to be the single most original thought I've seen in a long time!

Yea, I agree. That's a great idea and probably the best way to level up multiple groups at the same time. It would be pretty amazing to watch too.

PS: this thread (and others like it) freaking rocks on so many levels :D

Sam DeathWalker

12-15-2008, 07:22 PM

I would have 25 fully featured characters from 1-80 in 210 nights.

Ok so 1000 hours for yur full crew.

Thats like 40 days played, which is about 1/10th of the time I put into my eq guys ....

I to am anxous to try Robs idea. Give me about 3 days (I wont get any exp cept in 1 instance, as all shamans have no real way to do non totem aoe damage at level 22, but the mobs will all die and it will be good enough to test the theroy).

Prepared

12-16-2008, 03:54 AM

xcept instead of doing research into what does and what does not work,

Don't forget that Prepared, as excellent as he has done, does not use jamba, keyclone, macaroon or most any addon at all. 3 months ago I didnt know what lua was, yet now I am pretty much able to make macros do as much as they are abel to do. In your opinion is it better to use these tools or just jump in and level up as fast as you can with the default UI? If you think that these tools are better for the long run then you will agree that there is a learning curve and that is what I have been doing these last 90 days. Plus I have stable computers with what, in my opinion, is by far and away the best hardware set up. Everyone else takes whatever computers they have at hand and toss them together, mine are made from the ground up for what I do. Right now I am the only person who can brodcast a single ui to 5 other computers and 25 other characters, log in and ONLY have to move the professions macros from the spell book to the bar. I dont have to load ANY profiles, titanbar shows where I set it on the first UI, everything is just like the original UI, all macros are where they were placed on the first UI. That took me over a week of work to do. But now I can change something, spend about 5-10 mintues to broadcast it (I use copy muppy, macroexpress3 and microsoft word to do it lol), and bang, add in the professions and Im all set to go!

I don't quite follow you with these statements. But an FYI, Octopus does what Keyclone does. They compete with each other. They both broadcast keys and mouse. I use one keyboard for full 100% control of one character while the keys goes to all of my other screens. Not sure what you mean by 'I am the only person who can broadcast a single ui to 5 other computers and 25 other characters'. I use only Octopus which does what Keyclone does, it sends the keys to the other instances of WoW. So I believe I'm doing the same thing you're doing which is what everyone else on these forums are doing, they control one screen (i.e. one character but sends the keys over to the other instances of WoW to do casting, healing, etc.) and multibox. The only difference between what we're doing and most others on here is that we have more wow instances, but the concept is identical.

I'm using the default UI and 3 addons. ClassIcons, CT_MapMod and SSPVP3. I find that is all I need for what I'm doing. However, I'm heavily using in-game macros with just about every cast and other things such as forming groups, rezing, trading etc. I'm a firm believer in the lighter the client, the better game play. With my configuration, I see no lag except if I put down all totems and then it's only a little noticeable difference.

I'm not working on any professions at all right now. Am not planning on working on professions until all characters hit level 80. Then will only focus on a few characters which need to get above 375 in each profession. It's taking awhile just to level up, with professions, it would take a lot longer.

Sam DeathWalker

12-16-2008, 05:58 AM

Youngceo

12-16-2008, 08:17 AM

Whose "we" dont you mean you? or is this because you refer to yourself in 3rd person?

Prepared > Sam

RobinGBrown

12-16-2008, 10:06 AM

Deleted, this is just silly

Tynk

12-16-2008, 10:22 AM

Whose "we" dont you mean you? or is this because you refer to yourself in 3rd person?

Prepared > SamPlease try to keep this civil, there is no need to try and sling veiled insults.

We do the key broadcastinga bit different also. You broadcast in software to all clients on all computers, as you say.

In this case he is using "we" to refer to himself and the poster he was responding to as they both have different means of multi-casting.

We = "You and I" do things differently
Not the way you read it as "The group of people I am associated with" do things differently from you.

zanthor

12-16-2008, 10:26 AM

I mean I can broadcast my UI ... the UI set up itself like titanbars and simple minimap and macaroon, and macros, without loading profiles. Sry if it was unclear.

Now lets say you make a macro for your shaman on one computer can you copy it to all the others or do you ahve to rewirte the macro in game for each shaman. The way I have set up is I can make a change on my main computer (say I want to go from earth shocks to chain lightning at level 32), then broadcast that macro change (by erasing and altering the WTF files/folder) automatacally (well takes 3 programes and about 10 mintues). I guess copy is a better word, well I guess clone would be the correct term, So I can test out different macros kinda fasts.
So I can change a macro on the main computer and clone it to all other characters on all other computers.

Maybe copying the WTF folder works if you are not using macaroon but if you do then it takes a bit more then that.Copy your UI from one pc to the next would be a better way of saying this... I personally use RDX which has the facilities to BROADCAST your UI changes in game to any other player running RDX. For exmaple if someone wanted my RDX setup all they would have to do is log onto Blackhand, group with me, and I could send it to them. The bigger the package the longer it takes, but I've used this for years both for multiboxing and raiding - in raids it was invaluable to be able to code boss mods on the fly.

No doubt the lighter the client the better, but I can surely suggest that addons Jamba and Macaroon are major major facilitators in game play. How do you know if any of your guys break autofollow? How do you know if one of your guys is under attack? With Jamba you can see the health of everyone and if they are following (well basically) on the main computer. Also with Jamba you can click on a flight path with your main and everyone automatically goes to that point, and a bunch of quest stuffs also. Macroroon makes each key (or click button) a full macro in itself and lets you go over the character limit. I boxed without Jamba for well over a year before using it, I'll agree it's a great application but far from required. I keep my camera far enough back that I normally see breaks before jamba tells me. As for under attack, I have health bars on screen for them, this would be exacerbated by multiple groups but if a mobs in yoru group, you should be nuking it not chatting with it. Flight points can be handled with mouse broadcasting, etc.
We do the key broadcastinga bit different also. You broadcast in software to all clients on all computers, as you say. I hardware broadcast from one keyboard/mouse to 6 computers then software broadcast to the 5 instances on each compouter. Not sure if that is better or worse actually lol ... Well it is a bit better I can left mouse click on six computers at the same time ... I mean on 6 instances. Key->Broadcast->Broadcast->Client seems to have a layer of failure built in waiting to happen, but really I can see it having benefits as well. If the software broadcaster dies on one machine you don't lose them all.

All said and done, even Prepared isn't doing anything all that "rocket science" like... he's doing the same thing we all do, to the N'th power. Honestly I'm much more impressed by the mixed class 5 and 10 boxers who succeed at heroics and raids than I am any multiboxer playing X of the same class. Having played pally/priest/priest/mage/mage I realize the logistical nightmare it can be - having played shamam^5, druid^4, lock^4 I can say that they are all trivial to setup and level.

Sam DeathWalker

12-16-2008, 01:19 PM

I play multiple classes in EQ (1 war, 1 bard, 1 chanter, 1 shaman, 5 clerics, 13 wizards, 1 ranger, 1 mage), but Shamans just do so much (heal, dps, aoe, raz ... ) that well.

You can't just transfer an addon that uses Ace2 or Ace3 (i.e. macaroon) which has your characters name in the Macaroon.lua files to another computer and expect it to work, unless you load default profiles, which also dosnt work all the time ... You have to change the Macaroon.lua (and arkinventory and Jamba) files themselves ...

Macaroon mess ('http://www.dual-boxing.com/forums/index.php?page=Thread&threadID=16162')

but if a mobs in yoru group, you should be nuking it not chatting with it Well you have to konw you are under attack first ...

Key->Broadcast->Broadcast->Client seems to have a layer of failure built in waiting to happen There are so many possible things that could go wrong its amazing that these games work at all.

Prepared

12-16-2008, 01:21 PM

How do you know if any of your guys break autofollow? How do you know if one of your guys is under attack? With Jamba you can see the health of everyone and if they are following (well basically) on the main computer. Also with Jamba you can click on a flight path with your main and everyone automatically goes to that point, and a bunch of quest stuffs also. Macroroon makes each key (or click button) a full macro in itself and lets you go over the character limit.

I can see any of my characters break auto follow by the screen they display as not moving. Just one key to bring them back to following. I have another key to set focus to any of my group leaders so as long as I can set focus, I don't have any issues there. I know any one of my characters is under attack by sound from any computer or by their health going down. My 2 main computers contains the group leaders for all groups so I see the health of all from those two screens.

The Jamba flight path for all to go to the same point sounds nice! Sounds like the other options I don't need but that one would save a lot of time for me :)

We do the key broadcastinga bit different also. You broadcast in software to all clients on all computers, as you say. I hardware broadcast from one keyboard/mouse to 6 computers then software broadcast to the 5 instances on each compouter. Not sure if that is better or worse actually lol ... Well it is a bit better I can left mouse click on six computers at the same time ... I mean on 6 instances.

Octopus broadcasts to each instance and computer. The mouse doesn't work that well for multiple instance windows on the same computer, but I'm hoping a newer version will fix that.

Sam DeathWalker

12-16-2008, 01:29 PM

Ya there is more then one way to skin a cat ...

Prepared

12-16-2008, 01:30 PM

All said and done, even Prepared isn't doing anything all that "rocket science" like... he's doing the same thing we all do, to the N'th power. Honestly I'm much more impressed by the mixed class 5 and 10 boxers who succeed at heroics and raids than I am any multiboxer playing X of the same class. Having played pally/priest/priest/mage/mage I realize the logistical nightmare it can be - having played shamam^5, druid^4, lock^4 I can say that they are all trivial to setup and level.

My view is that we're all doing the same thing with regard to the mechanism we use to multibox. Keep in mind some of us multiboxed every single class and even a small few did that without any keyboard or mouse broadcasting software prior to finding out about this web site. /agree on the multiboxers that can do heroics, raids and good ratings in PvP arenas by themselves. However, having said that, I don't agree with some on here that state the best boxing PvPers have the highest ratings unless those boxing PvPers are doing the arenas by themselves. I.e., some boxers work with other players in the PvP arenas which isn't as impressive as the boxers in the PvP arenas by themselves.

Prepared

12-16-2008, 01:39 PM

Right now Im not planing to do alts, the only way I can beat prepared is to have guys stronger then his and thats going to be impossible if I dont focus on just my 1 pal and 25 shaman (I might add 10 more accounts though).

You'd need to add 14 more accounts to surpass me in WoW to have more accounts than I do. :)

Right now, I'm staying with 38 accounts. They are paid up to April. Next summer, I might not be playing all of them, we'll see.

Sam DeathWalker

12-16-2008, 01:42 PM

Ya I agree but for sure it is very smart to have 4 dps and another person healing as then you get the best of both boxing (focus fire) and non boxing (varible response on healer)... very very smart.

Ya I have to have my guys much stongers then your guys to kill stronger mobs then you and 12 more toons is a big edge. We will see. Im haveing problems with just 26, even running through quests with 38 is going to be a nightmare. For now I will stick with 26 and see what occurs. I think you can see that you will have to invest a very very large chunck of your time to get all to 80 and quality gear. Even though its 1/4th of whats needed in EQ its still a TON of time.

zanthor

12-16-2008, 01:44 PM

Keep in mind some of us multiboxed every single class and even a small few did that without any keyboard or mouse broadcasting software prior to finding out about this web site.Maximizer, focus follows mouse, and LOTS of clicking/key thrashing! Most I ever did without software was two melee + healer, which was a real bitch to keep up with a rogue/warrior + priest healer.

Sam DeathWalker

12-16-2008, 01:50 PM

Fortis

12-16-2008, 02:16 PM

Stop talking about power leveling

-Svpernova09

Prepared

12-16-2008, 02:16 PM

I didnt use mouse or keyboard software broadcasting (well I did do the hardware onekeyboard to 6 computers broadcasting) in EQ ...

Heh seems like a obsolete way to do things ... dang now I have to reset up all my eq stuffs also. Well can use delays in EQ socials though, that helps a lot.

If you're still playing Everquest with 25 characters, you won't get very far in WoW boxing 25 characters. All the RAF and ideas for speedy leveling aren't going to help much if you are trying to box 25 characters in both of the games.

I don't feel so bad about 38 characters :)

Prepared

12-16-2008, 02:17 PM

Sam, why not pay for Powerleveling services? They are only 200 bucks to level 70. so 26x70=5.200$. Thats probably cheaper than buying new accounts everytime yor RAF expires and you can....like....level a char to 70 and learn how WOW works in the meantime? Just as an advice......

Because the account will be banned. Not 'may', but 'WILL'.

Rin

12-16-2008, 02:18 PM

Sam, why not pay for Powerleveling services? They are only 200 bucks to level 70. so 26x70=5.200$. Thats probably cheaper than buying new accounts everytime yor RAF expires and you can....like....level a char to 70 and learn how WOW works in the meantime? Just as an advice......

26 Emails from Blizzard stating that your account has been banned = Priceless.

Fortis

12-16-2008, 02:24 PM

Because the account will be banned. Not 'may', but 'WILL'.
They will? Interesting. Never used a leveling service (and never would), but arent they just, like, playing the game?

Rin

12-16-2008, 02:29 PM

Because the account will be banned. Not 'may', but 'WILL'.
They will? Interesting. Never used a leveling service (and never would), but arent they just, like, playing the game?

Half of the companies don't even have a VPN setup... a China IP address playing your account for several days on end is going to flag it. Most of the companies don't even level by hand; they use a <google a program here> to level your characters, which has about a 20-30% success rate overall (Blizzard's Warden algorithm is pretty fancy). The other companies use your characters to transfer gold, so even when you think the account is safe, you receive a letter a few days later stating that your account has been banned for exploiting the economy (something to this effect). That, and once Blizzard bans one of your accounts, you better believe that they'll investigate anything else that's tied to your Firstname / Lastname. Its a simple, really.

The only way to get around it would be to have someone who you KNOW lives here in the US (preferably near you and using your internet company/a similiar provider) level your characters, at which point the costs would probably exceed the value (I don't know too many people here willing to work for less than $20/hr).

Prepared

12-16-2008, 02:31 PM

Because the account will be banned. Not 'may', but 'WILL'.
They will? Interesting. Never used a leveling service (and never would), but arent they just, like, playing the game?

No, they're not. You know when you go to a major city and you see advertising for gold? Those are usually on trial accounts. When you see them advertising in the trade channel, those are being done on the accounts that are supposed to be for powerleveling. The powerleveling guys don't powerlevel the accounts, they use those accounts for further advertising which gets the accounts banned. Blizzard checks IP addresses amoung other things after they receive reports of spam for gold. They ban the accounts for gold spamming and record the IP addresses for determining where the accounts are being played for that purpose. If you pay for a powerleveling service, your account WILL be banned PERIOD.

The powerleveling services don't care if the accounts get banned. They have absolutely 0 interest in having the characters on those accounts to the level you pay for. Once you pay, you lose the account. Most don't know this which is why the guys are still advertising for gold and powerleveling services.

Svpernova09

12-16-2008, 02:33 PM

Sam, why not pay for Powerleveling services? They are only 200 bucks to level 70. so 26x70=5.200$. Thats probably cheaper than buying new accounts everytime yor RAF expires and you can....like....level a char to 70 and learn how WOW works in the meantime? Just as an advice......Powerleveling is against ToS. Because it is allowing someone (NOT the account owner) access to the account. Since it is against the ToS, we don't allow it here so knock it off.

Bigfish

12-16-2008, 02:39 PM

Stop talking about power leveling

-Svpernova09

Sam DeathWalker

12-16-2008, 02:40 PM

Using real life cash to advance myself in WoW? Surely you kid.

Besides those guys are amatures look at the ideas for leveling fast we have just in this one thread. You dont belive that these "powerlevelers" can acctually out level the people on this forum, ligitly?

Man I had to start out begging gold (made like 3 gold begging - Who da Man!). Thats why I have to do professions really.

Well just finished cutting and pasting my new account names into all my programs hopefully everything will work when the servers come back up. Might even test keyclone idea today. Im level 22, any good instance I should try in the contenent mulgore is on? My guys are at Thunder Buff right now. Well unless they still didnt flag the accounts for a name change.

Rin

12-16-2008, 02:45 PM

(I don't know too many people here willing to work for less than $20/hr).

Plenty of people work for minimum wage. Just need to find a bunch of low skill workers and say, "Hey, wanna play a computer game for 5$ an hour?" Sure as hell beats flipping burgers.

Edit: Sorry nova, was typing it up when you posted that.

In doing this, you would still have to provide them with computer(s), internet, training (not everyone can multibox), and what are you going to pay them with? cash? hire them as contract workers? provide them with an office space (your house?), supervise them? provide insurance? lol. Or are you going to hire people who you can't even communicate with to level your characters? You've still gotta provide them some sort of facility to do it in.

As I said earlier, the benefits would outweigh the cost, and that's why people "try" to use the aforementioned services (because of cost).

puppychow

12-16-2008, 02:48 PM

Hey Prepared, is your team at 80 now? Did you raid any of the ally cities or run Lake Wintergrasp yet? Just curious how that has worked out, since I know raiding cities was one of your original goals. I got the black war bear on my team (just 5) but since then I've never wanted to go into an ally city again, my FPS dropped to < 1 and the lag was terrible. Even lake Wintergrasp is awful on my server most of the time, too many people in the zone makes casting a nightmare :( If you have any blog or such would love to read how things are going for you. TBH I recently cancelled my wow subs (probably will reactivate 1-2 in january and just dualbox), leveling was really fun but endgame just doesn't seem that fun in WOTLK for me as a multiboxer, its more fun for me solo.

Sam - no one really cares what you did in EQ anymore. Grats on whatever you accomplished there, but we are all talking about WoW here and the fact is that after 3 months you have reached level (22? 26?) whereas Prepared has basically leveled 38 characters to near 80 in nearly the same amount of time and many, many people have leveled 10-20 characters 1-80 in that same time. You really need to stop using as an argument "but in EQ I...", the fact is so far on every measurable stat you are far, far, far, far, far behind every other person. Its NO BIG DEAL, its just a video game, but you aren't winning by any measure anything. The amount of time to go from 70-80 also dwarfs 1-70 for multiboxers, so its only going to get worse, not better.

To be honest what I'd suggest is investigate games coming out in the next year. Theres Stargate and Bioware's new Star Wars MMO (2011? 2012?) You wanna jump ahead of the curve, WoW is what, 4-5 years old now with a massive userbase, if you really want e-fame get into the next big thing. You could try Warhammer, which is 100% all about PVP, but its a lot harder to multibox.

Bigfish

12-16-2008, 02:51 PM

Stop talking about power leveling

-Svpernova09

Fortis

12-16-2008, 02:53 PM

Don't even joke about it. Its not funny. Don't talk about it here.

-Svpernova09

Bigfish

12-16-2008, 03:01 PM

bah, nevermind

Bigfish

12-16-2008, 03:05 PM

Rin

12-16-2008, 03:22 PM

In doing this, you would still have to provide them with computer(s), internet, training (not everyone can multibox), and what are you going to pay them with? cash? hire them as contract workers? provide them with an office space (your house?), supervise them? provide insurance? lol. Or are you going to hire people who you can't even communicate with to level your characters? You've still gotta provide them some sort of facility to do it in.

Forbiden topic completely unrelated at this point:

What, you think the people running those things don't have overhead costs either? You think people can only speak one language? You think low-skill work provides insurance? Do you even know what a no-skill and/or illegal labor market looks like?

What, you think the people running those things don't have overhead costs either?
These companies are NOT based in the US. I'd even argue that the companies that have shells here are sub'd out to other countries. Economics 101: Outsourcing (in the case of leveling characters) = cheaper costs, hence why you see the cheap leveling methods available.

You think people can only speak one language? Did I state that? In my argument, I posed that he wouldn't find workers here (in the US, hence my $20/hr comment) to provide those services without exceeding the value of the services

You think low-skill work provides insurance? McDonalds has a healthcare plan for it's full-time non-salaried employees, as does Wal-Mart for it's fulltime employees. I don't think we can get much more cutthroat in the US low-skilled/low wage legal labor market.

Do you even know what a no-skill and/or illegal labor market looks like? Again, your argument fails on the premises that if Sam wanted to succeed in his leveling by using a service, he would have to do it in house (US based), which means US based leveling, US based workers, US based internet company. Don't forget that we're combating time in this as well, because clearly the point of using a service would be to level as fast as possible. But, since I've only built two corporations, clearly I know nothing about business and labor markets...perhaps you can enlighten me: Where is it that I can find US based workers to work at $5/hr (minimum was higher at last glance), that have computers, don't need insurance, and have the internet available for usage? I mean really, if you have these people available, shoot me a PM, I'd honestly like to talk with you. :thumbup:

genocyde

12-16-2008, 03:23 PM

Are we back on that "whose winning the never ending game" thing again? I killed the first boss in heroic slave pens on my lvl 70 hunter back during Season 3. 1 toon 1 heroic boss and I honestly think forming a successful hogger raid of lvl 1-3 chars might be a much harder challenge ;) . I'm gonna take my 5 man team back to heroic slave pens and solo that boss 5 times simultaneously in 5 separate instances at the same time. 5x 70 heroic boss at the same time... come on, I win!

EDIT: on a serious note I think both Prepared and Sam are doing some great things. While I think the constant reminder of Sam's accomplishments in EQ have no place in the WoW thread, and I'm not even remotely impressed by anything EQ, I am secretly hoping Sam and/or Prepared pulls off their own personal raid boss kill in lvl 80 content since it's so easy and might actually lead to some nifty advice/strats/software coming out of them when they actually make it to the beginning of the game (lvl 80).

genocyde

12-16-2008, 03:47 PM

Oh, While I'm here. Sam I will suggest you seriously reconsider rolling 26x hunters, or possibly, what I would consider the best available group 1 pally, 4 shaman, 20 hunters, 1 priest.

Consider for a second having a pally tank with pally buffs. 4 shaman for your common totems and heals. 20 hunters just for the fact they are exceptional characters to think of 20 in 1 group. 20x multishot 20x explosive trap 20x PET!!!!! hunters can heal their pet, rez their pet, etc. and 20 core hounds could possibly annoy enough people to make a serious impact on your location.

But in all seriousness this group would be capable of raiding if you ask me. Grab your 26th char as the priest just for priest buffs and a viable sub-in for AOE healing certain bosses.
20 hunters/pets is the most fire and forget damage I can possibly think of. you could /afk with 20 pets on defensive and still be save on a pvp server.

Seriously. I want to see an enemy assault deal with 20x multishot / pet / explosive trap. Do it!

Bigfish

12-16-2008, 03:54 PM

What, you think the people running those things don't have overhead costs either?
These companies are NOT based in the US. I'd even argue that the companies that have shells here are sub'd out to other countries. Economics 101: Outsourcing (in the case of leveling characters) = cheaper costs, hence why you see the cheap leveling methods available.

Actually, outsourcing is more of a topic for an International Economics class, and is generally motivated by cheaper wages and lower working standards. It doesn't mean operations in foreign countries don't pay for rent and capital.

You think people can only speak one language? Did I state that? In my argument, I posed that he wouldn't find workers here (in the US, hence my $20/hr comment) to provide those services without exceeding the value of the services

Yes, actually you did state that when you listed language as a barrier to entry, which it isn't necesarily.

You think low-skill work provides insurance? McDonalds has a healthcare plan for it's full-time non-salaried employees, as does Wal-Mart for it's fulltime employees. I don't think we can get much more cutthroat in the US low-skilled/low wage legal labor market.

You've never seen many migrant workers, have you? Or, for that matter, taken an indepth look at the "insurance" "offered" by Wal-mart and McDonalds. Namely, being such large corporations, they are legally required to, and all that legislation really did was screw over the low skilled workers who had their hours cut so they wouldn't qualify as "full time".

Not to mention the Illicit Minor fallacy.

Do you even know what a no-skill and/or illegal labor market looks like? Again, your argument fails on the premises that if Sam wanted to succeed in his leveling by using a service, he would have to do it in house (US based), which means US based leveling, US based workers, US based internet company. Don't forget that we're combating time in this as well, because clearly the point of using a service would be to level as fast as possible. But, since I've only built two corporations, clearly I know nothing about business and labor markets...perhaps you can enlighten me: Where is it that I can find US based workers to work at $5/hr (minimum was higher at last glance), that have computers, don't need insurance, and have the internet available for usage? I mean really, if you have these people available, shoot me a PM, I'd honestly like to talk with you.

The capital is easy to come by, and honestly quite minimal compared to most small businesses. The labor is a matter of knowing where to look. Plenty of people out there willing to work for less than minimum wage, if you don't mind running things off the books, and plenty of people perfectly willing to work AT minimum wage if you want to be a stickler for that. Teenagers, migrant workers, the entire low-skill labor market who already work more strenous jobs for the exact same pay. All of them would JUMP at the opportunity if someone told them they could get PAYED to play a game.

Rin

12-16-2008, 04:06 PM

I'm impressed. ^^ I would go on, because obviously you're a smart person, and I would like to argue about a couple of other things... but we're turning Sam's thread into an economical debate (nothing wrong with that, as I just learned something after reading and looking up what you had mentioned about the new legislation enacted upon large corproations with regard to insurance) :)

Rin

Bigfish

12-16-2008, 04:14 PM

Ahh, but I love a good economic throw down! Anyway, high five. :thumbsup: That was fun.

Sam: Have you considered adoption? Legally, you could get a bunch of hippie-haired loincloth-laden orphans to level your guys, and if you're their legal gaurdian, it isn't even against the TOS!

genocyde

12-16-2008, 04:44 PM

If someone wants to win multiboxing, I challenge one of you economically smart individuals to run for both president and vice president simultaneously. :thumbup:

(although, I will refrain from challenging Sam to run for every elected position in the U.S. Government simultaneously)

Bigfish

12-16-2008, 04:52 PM

Multibocks

12-16-2008, 04:55 PM

holy crap this thread is still going! (yes I realize the irony of me posting)

Sam DeathWalker

12-17-2008, 04:14 AM

Arghhh Matee! My thread has been Pierated by economic peoples!

Well its a multiboxing forum, and lets face it, EQ is the harder game of the two. I mean umm no AA's to get in WoW. And all mobs is EQ are elite, and they dont stop chasing you lol ...

Thats not to say WoW hasnt made some excellent moves though. Anyone can auto follow, no fail combines in trades, AH instead of keeping your computer on all the time in Bazzar, I would assume better pvp... etc.

Went to work all day today and some female coming over soon but gonna try and log in and see whats up now.

Sam DeathWalker

12-17-2008, 04:37 AM

This will be in the 3.0.8 patch (the one after 3.0.3 for some reason):

Tapping will get easier

"All player spells which cause a creature to become aggressive to you will now also immediately cause the creature to be tapped." I'm not sure why they changed this particular game mechanic after so long, but I only see this as a positive change. Basically, in order to get the experience and loot from a mob, you and your groupmates currently need to actually do damage to a mob. This means that casting a DoT, which takes a tick before it does damage, or a debuff currently will not actually mark the creature right away as yours even though it will now attack you. So you may get aggro, but someone else may have tapped it and will get the kill. But after the next patch, any spell that catches your target's attention will tag it as yours for experience and loot -- as long as you and your teammates kill it. This isn't really a huge change, in my opinion, but you should be aware of it when questing in heavily populated areas"

Does this mean that if you kill a mob only with totems that you WILL get exp?

RobinGBrown

12-17-2008, 05:27 AM

Well its a multiboxing forum, and lets face it, EQ is the harder game of the two.

If EQ is 'harder' and it's taken you three months to get to level 22 just how long did it take you toget to high level in EQ?

I'm a bit tired of all this publicity you're generating while you're managing to actually accomplish nothing at all.

So from this point on as ar as I'm concerned this is all e-peen waving and attention seeking - show me some screenshots of at least level 60s.

Svpernova09

12-17-2008, 07:42 AM

TheBigBB

12-17-2008, 02:42 PM

Svpernova09

12-17-2008, 02:47 PM

No, it means as soon as you aggro a mob its tapped to you.No, I think it just means that when you use a DOT or something else, it taps the enemy even before damage is done. I certainly hope some guy mounting through an area doesn't tap everything just by aggroing it.I meant to imply when you cast a spell on it, not just by running by and aggroing. original post edited for clarity.

sleep deprivation ftl.

Bigfish

12-17-2008, 05:47 PM

By my figures, playing 1 Day Main-10 Man group followed by 1 Day Alt leveling alternating, I should have 25 <60s by February, all of them 70 by March, and a full 25 80s by May.

Starbuck_Jones

12-17-2008, 07:07 PM

and some female coming over soon but gonna try and log in
lol

Talamarr

12-17-2008, 07:57 PM

This Sam vs Prepared saga is really interesting, but I think at the end of the story, we're going to find out that Sam and Prepared are the same person. Ellay is "their" brother and they're going on an epic quest to stop Fur from killing Vyndree's fish in her famous fish tank.

It's not a very good plot but it'll make a made-for-tv movie and use a few swear words during prime time and get some publicity. Keyclone will be the sponsor.

Youngceo

12-18-2008, 01:34 AM

I'm a bit tired of all this publicity you're generating while you're managing to actually accomplish nothing at all.

You and 95% of the forum. He would rather took about it for 6 months rather than actually do something. Prepared is the king and this guy is the screaming 5 year old that never got enough attention from his parents trying to steal prepareds spotlight.

Least prepared has some decent personal character, whereas sam is the chump trying to brag about an apparent IQ and "winning at life". Dont know about anyone else but if I was 55, looked at wow as a fulltime job and had to pay for "woman to come over" and let everyone on a forum know.. I wouldnt think I was winning.

Move to the south of France or something and buy yourself a yacht, who the hell wants to play wow 10+hrs a day once they're retired :huh:

Sam DeathWalker

12-18-2008, 01:50 AM

LoL so you should play WoW 10 plus hours a day when you have a job, family, school etc. but not when you don't lol ....

keyclone

12-18-2008, 02:46 AM

very funny.. young, you are echo'ing all the statements solo boxers make about multi-boxers. you don't see the irony?

if sam wants to fart around for 3 months getting the feel for a game he hadn't played that much, that's up to him. if he wants to do his RAF time again having learned the ropes, again... up to him.

and if he has retired early and decides to have some fun on the side... that is his choice and should not merit any criticism unless he is hurting someone else (and a forum post isn't hurting anyone... if you think it is, your scales are off... go to a local biker bar on a saturday night and start ordering wine coolers for adjustment)

don't get me wrong... the whole loincloth thing made my eyes bleed as i attempted to claw the image from my frontal lobe.

http://www.fohguild.org/forums/attachments/retard-rickshaw/85521d1219178612-deathwalker-plans-26-boxing-wow-deathwalkersloincloth.gif

Youngceo

12-18-2008, 06:43 AM

Theres a difference between 5 boxing and trying to 25+ box just because someone else already is and you want more attention than them, even if you dont know how to get it.

Im far from angry about it, just I like everyone else im sick of the pleas for attention rather than producing some actual results. Hey if the fella can 26 box or whatever he wants to do and even come close to pulling it off then good for him, but not making it past the 20's before failing miserably and talking the same dribble on forums over and over and over about EQ achievements and being some sort of winner at life (lol) just gets boring real quick.

"Back when I was your age... yadda yadda yadda" you might have been the talk of EQ champ, but this is a wow forum, and here Prepared rules #1. Actions speak louder than words, and least when Prepared speaks he isnt arrogant and boring.

genocyde

12-18-2008, 03:58 PM

As much as I agree against the whole EQ statements about anything (that game is as much of a joke as WoW tbh just different). Sam deserves no personal attacks and the only 'attention whoring' he is accomplishing is actually being created by the people complaining. With exception to the who's winning comments and the EQ dribble he seems to be a straight forward poster that I think may actually contribute to the community someday. As for this being a WoW forum; last I checked WoW forums are that way -> http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/ ('http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/') this is www.dual-boxing.com/forums general discussion.

As for the 'GTFO' 'Go buy a yacht in france' 'Do retired things when retired' type of comments. Go earn the achievements 'independently wealthy' & 'Retired' and then come back and tell him in great detail how much of his time he's wasting doing something he enjoys.

Just my $0.02

Edit: spelling

Sam DeathWalker

12-19-2008, 12:53 AM

5 boxing and trying to 25+ box just because someone else already is

I 24 boxed EQ for years, why wouldn't I 26 box WoW? Also my plans were already in place before anyone even heard of Prepared (he was basically unknown untill the "who's the 30 boxer" thread about Aug 31st 2008). Check his posts on this forum, or try and find anything on the internet about him, prior to 8-01-08, there are none before the middle of Augest, under his Prepared name. You'll find one post by me that has over 200,000 hits even years before 8-01-08. I mean even the title of the thread "WHOS the 30 boxer" indicates that the OP of that thread had never heard of him.

Whereas my plan was set on 7-29-08:

http://www.fohguild.org/forums/retard-rickshaw/35500-deathwalker-plans-26-boxing-wow.html

Go to samdeathwalker.com or google sam deathwalker, I think its safe to say I been around a while.

Still just waiting for the account moves and renames to finally finish before I test Keyclones idea.

Talamarr

12-19-2008, 02:12 PM

Sam, all this mention of EQ means you're missing the point.

There's nothing "special" about owning X number of accounts other than you can afford the setup. What makes multiboxing special and meaningful is what you are able to accomplish in game (like leveling for starters). We all recognize that you have the resources to be able to do this. That's cool in its own way but it's really not what anyone cares about.

What this community cares about is what you can do with those resources.

Being better than some other boxer isn't necessarily a numbers game. In fact, some of the cooler accomplishments in wow involve just how few toons are able to do something. You want to be better than Prepared (or anyone else)? Accomplish something different, post some screen shots, videos and teach others how to accomplish the same thing. That's what this community cares about.

So get to it.

Sam DeathWalker

12-19-2008, 02:55 PM

I agree I am in last place in WoW, but probably First Place in EQ.

Ya action is where its at ... just waiting on the account moves and renames... can't drive to Blizzard HQ and thunderstorm them you know.

Bigfish

12-28-2008, 09:25 PM

25 level 35+s now. 4 More playing sessions of 3-5 hours each and they should be 55. 3 more after that and they'll be 60.

Sam DeathWalker

12-29-2008, 01:44 AM

How many can you get in the game at one time though? If you can only play 10 at a time then your 10 best are the only ones that count.

Bigfish

12-29-2008, 09:53 AM

I could get all 25 logged in at once if I really wanted to. You, better than anyone, should understand its just a matter of throwing $$$$ at it. At this point though, there is no reason to. Why log in with 25 characters if they're all useless? No, I'll be waiting until the point when they all hit the only level that matters. The ship has to float before it's worth loading up with gold from the New World.

Svpernova09

12-29-2008, 10:50 AM

Do mages aoe grind or do they quest?

No I have 5 guys each with the 2 main professions at 150 plus.

Professions are getting me gold which I use to get spells that I need.

If you could drop 25 fire nova totems with no threat you would quest?Questing has always been, and will always be the fastest way to level in World Of Warcraft. If you're just not into questing, you're playing the wrong game. No matter how many toons you run, no matter how horrible the quests are, you're always going to be faster to quest. The ONLY time this is NOT the case is when boosting with a high level via instancing. But you can't exactly do that with 25 toons in 1 instance. Sure mages are very efficient at AoE grinding, but they're still leveling slower than me. All things being equal (mainly # hours played, no boosting) I'll out level anyone that is grinding, simply by questing. It doesn't matter what faction or class, I'll beat you to X level every time.

Sam, You catch a lot of shit here but I think it's like someone else stated above, we don't box to say "I box X toons". We box to do shit. We box to PvP, we box to PvE. What you're doing is cool, but this isn't EQ, this isn't ANY other game for that matter. What you did in another game is totally irrelevant to WoW. At any rate, GL with whatever you're doing and I hope you get a frickin Christmas card from blizzard.