Raid loot and the multiboxer

[Kicksome]

Just wonder how your guilds do raid loot in 10 or 25 man raids when you bring multiple characters.

Do they let all your guys roll? Or do they just count you as one person, equal to all the others? Do they give you extra DKP etc...

Considering I have five repair bills, and have to level and gear five characters to raid, it sort of sucks I don't get to roll on anything with my alts, unless no one else needs it (which isn't happening at this point). On the other hand, it's fun to bring five toons to a raid and help out the guild to fill out raid spots. Although it's nice to get SOME consideration in return in some fashion (e.g. repair bill money maybe at a minimum?). I'm helping out 20 other people to make the raid happen, without the downtime or risk of pugging people. Not to mention, they all get more loot since 16% of the raid isn't allowed to roll on loot (i.e. me)

Maybe we can come up with a couple standard policy or something for multiboxer loot that's fair.

[Dominian]

I doubt any guilds would bother to take our loot policy into consideration.

Imagin if the rogues came with a loot policy wich they found on the rogue forums! :P

Some guilds gear up the main tank first while others dont, and every guild is different. From what ive seen on theese forums you should be happy to raid at all as most here cant find a guild that wants them.

1 player will NEVER be able to play 5 chars better then 5 singel chars that know how to play.

Personally i would never bother to raid with a multiboxer in a seriouse pve guild, yes i could allow it a few times if we were low on people but i would demand that my GM recruited more people.

[Harem]

In my guild alts are always geared last. I'm usually happy when I can bring an alt.

If your guild needs your alts there, then they should get to roll. If you are doing the same dps/support functions as other people in the guild, then the alts should also get to roll.

I'm lucky when I can bring mine - if no one else needs the drop then the alts get an upgrade.


I guess you have to decide/guild has to decide - if the other characters are mains or alts? do they allow multiple mains? How do they treat other peoples alts?(I realize other people prolly don't play their alts at the same time they play their mains - but thats not the question here).

Don't bring them to the raid if you can't afford the repair bill, and if they need your alts for the dps etc. then mention there's no point in bringing them if they don't get to roll on gear.

[genocyde]

Comments like Dominian's are why I have my own guild. Some people take raiding way to seriously. It's all about the loot and the first to the finish line and not about the challenge at all. I have 3 real life friends and 2 very good friends on WoW and between them and my 5 box we can cover a 10 man raid just fine and we haven't had problems yet.

My tank friend was even nice enough to bring in his tank to heroic oculus for me since my tank does not have good enough gear to survive in there yet AND he agreed to leave for the last boss so I could 5 box the dragon fight at the end for personal challenge. That final fight for the record was no where near as hard as I expected you just have to go into the fight aware that your not going to use the same strategy as another typical 5 man. Same with raiding. I believe our 10 man group, half of which is me, can down any 10 man raid fight if we tailor our strategies to our group.

As for loot. If you 5 box all the same class I wouldn't expect your guild to bring a 6th of that class. With my mixed group I run druid,priest, mage x3 We have one other mage and 2 other priests but we do not roll on loot. We have a simple system: Whoever gets the biggest stat upgrade out of the single piece of gear gets the piece as long as they have our required raid attendance.

DKP systems are inherently worthless IMO. Our guild gives everything that drops to whoever it is the biggest upgrade for since we run the same people every week. In a 25 man I imagine you'll never see the same loot system twice for a multiboxer due to 20+ other people offering opinions.

[Sam DeathWalker]

A long standing problem for sure.

No doubt a boxer is not as good as a 5 real people.

Still boxers are what 70-80 percent as effective, at least on dps classes? If you run 5 at 70 percent effectiveness then you should get 3.5 X dkp ...

I'v just kinda given up on raiding no matter. Either I get the gear from trade skills (which is why I will max all professions), buy and sell in AH, or just from mobs that I can kill myself or I just dont get the items. Ya my guys will never have near the best gear but hopefully I wont be lagging to far behind. From what I understand the very top trade skill items are fairly powerfull.

[Memn]

In the raids I have been in it typically works one of two ways:

In a PUG raid, where everyone is need or greed rolling, each of my toons gets their own roll.
In a DKP raid, where everyone is accrueing and spending DKP, each of my toons is treated as a seperate toon.

This is fair, because my toons aren't typically going to be in as many raids as other, so my main & other playres will typically gear up much faster anyway. My clones never have muc DKP saved up,and I can't every bid on a contested item, but I can pickup those upgrades that everyone else has easily.

[Bollwerk]

I'd be happy to just get the badges and to at least roll for loot on 1 toon. I wouldn't expect to roll with all my toons unless I setup the raid and the rules beforehand.

[Ken]

For me it depends:
If it's a raid with friends, then I won't care much. If it's a raid where I'm bringing my characters to a PUG so they can have a full group, then I'll demand a roll on each character.

[Dominian]

Comments like Dominian's are why I have my own guild. Some people take raiding way to seriously. It's all about the loot and the first to the finish line and not about the challenge at all. I have 3 real life friends and 2 very good friends on WoW and between them and my 5 box we can cover a 10 man raid just fine and we haven't had problems yet.

My tank friend was even nice enough to bring in his tank to heroic oculus for me since my tank does not have good enough gear to survive in there yet AND he agreed to leave for the last boss so I could 5 box the dragon fight at the end for personal challenge. That final fight for the record was no where near as hard as I expected you just have to go into the fight aware that your not going to use the same strategy as another typical 5 man. Same with raiding. I believe our 10 man group, half of which is me, can down any 10 man raid fight if we tailor our strategies to our group.

As for loot. If you 5 box all the same class I wouldn't expect your guild to bring a 6th of that class. With my mixed group I run druid,priest, mage x3 We have one other mage and 2 other priests but we do not roll on loot. We have a simple system: Whoever gets the biggest stat upgrade out of the single piece of gear gets the piece as long as they have our required raid attendance.

DKP systems are inherently worthless IMO. Our guild gives everything that drops to whoever it is the biggest upgrade for since we run the same people every week. In a 25 man I imagine you'll never see the same loot system twice for a multiboxer due to 20+ other people offering opinions.

Playing with friends and a people you dont know in a guild isnt what i would consider to be the same thing..

Cant say i take raids THAT seriouse but when people show up with yellow gear and without health potions it's annoying since 24 people have to wait for the last person.

From my time on raiding back in azeroth we always had to much people when we ran BWL and NAXX (the first part of it were we never wiped) Once we decided to keep up with the twin emperors wich was a wipe fest for us we nearly never had enough people.

Your perfect loot system wouldnt work in our raid simply because we wouldnt have had the people for new encounters were loot werent guaranteed. I guess things are easier now that you can make a guild of just friends.

So saying that i play for the loot and "first to the finish line" is bs..

Kinda weird to state that when i multibox isnt it? But i see it from the old raider in me pont of view, and do i need to kill Onyxia solo? No i dont and its cool for them who do and manages to but it wouldnt make me feel better.

[Kaynin]

In guildruns, runs with friends etc, I always only roll with one character.

I've sometimes had second thoughts. Why am I only rolling with one? I make up an integral part covering multiple slots in the group and I'm doing it well, so.

In pugs I roll with all characters. :P

[Kaynin]

Roll? What?

PuG? Huh?

divide.by.zero.error

:P

[Rin]

I think people are missing a critical part here: All content in the game can currently be PuG'd
(Note: some of the tougher achievements need a coordinated effort, but the basic RAIDS can be PuG'd!)

That being said, if I'm on a PuG for a raid, I would roll with all characters. If I'm with friends/fellow multi-boxers, then I let my friends pick their items first, and I take the scraps. Ideally, we would take turns, unless there's something specific that a person is aiming for. If a friend of mine wants/needs something specific, then by all means, I let them have it.

Often times, multiboxing is an integral part of getting through raids, especially for pick-up groups. I can't even begin to tell you the amount of people sitting in the general channel wanting to run x, but needing (usually in this order): healers, tanks, and then other classes. I see chat like this everyday on my server; I'm sure it's probably not much different on your servers.

I would agree with some of the other comments here too in stating that a multiboxer is actually often BETTER than a single player if a) the boxer knows the encounter and b) the encounter does not require LOTS of movement.

There are plenty of encounters that qualify for both points A and B in this game. Besides that, the multiboxer is playing at least 1 character at 100% capacity, and usually multi-boxed toons have similar gear (e.g. If you're running heroics, all of your characters have heroic gear)

Cheers

[Littleburst]

There have been quite some topics concerning this problem, so a quick search will give you a lot of opinions.

My opinion:
If you raid with them for your fun and take up spots which would else have been filled with other guildmembers, then be happy you can tag along.

If you join a raid to fill up spots on a weekly base you should be able to loot on more then one character because you really add something to the raid.

If you're a steady raider who normally joins with all chars, you should be able to get some more loot aswell.

It's all about what you add to the raid and if others lose something because you took 'their' place. If none loses anything and more people then just you gain something you should defenitly be able to loot more. Have a decent chat with the Guildmaster. Non-boxers may know not much about the concept of multiboxing, maybe he/she didn't even thing about it :)

Sidenote: didn't you have 4 ZA bear mounts? >.>

[kadaan]

My opinion:
If you raid with them for your fun and take up spots which would else have been filled with other guildmembers, then be happy you can tag along.

If you join a raid to fill up spots on a weekly base you should be able to loot on more then one character because you really add something to the raid.

If you're a steady raider who normally joins with all chars, you should be able to get some more loot aswell.
Loot is so abundant in Wrath it shouldn't really be a problem. There are 15 bosses in 10-man Naxx, each dropping 2 loots. That's 30 drops for 10 people, not counting anything on trash. There are obviously some pieces that will be wanted by several people (spellpower jewelry/weapons for example,) but in the end there's just far more loot than there ever was before. Double that in Heroic!

Not to mention with the gear changes there's simply less types of gear dropping so you should see upgrades more often!

[Leon]

Roll? What?

PuG? Huh?

divide.by.zero.errorEeek, Black Hole

[Kicksome]

I've never rolled on my alts vs. a guild member by the way. I never had a ZA bear mount.

Although one time, as usual, I brought my shamans in a BT run because we didn't have enough people, and the spell damage shield dropped off trash. Since my shamans were my "guild alts" (My pally tank was my main) I didn't get to roll vs. a member who never showed up for raids (when he did he has constant DC problems and had to be dropped) and just happened to be in the raid at that time. That actually pissed me off a bit since that was his second time in BT and easily my 10th on all 5 shaman.

[Hor]

It probably helps that I took over as our MT and that 95% of my guild members are RL friends. But I generally only take 1 shaman at a time, and that's only if we're short DPS. I don't bother trying to heal. I just tank and nuke. And if something drops that either can use/wants. I roll. We're very casual about it all, so I haven't had any problems. I dont' think I could handle the mandatory 6 days per week DKP minus raid environment anymore, did it for too long in EQ and again in WoW. Feels too much like a job.

[suprafro]

Personally, with the current state of raiding I've just been tagging along on the 10/25man runs with 2-3 shaman and collecting all the unwanted stuff. On guild runs I don't bid/roll on anything, not even on my main character, im just happy that im tagging along with multiple characters raking in the crap ton of unwanted epics that spew out everywhere. Even if everyone needs a majority of the drops now in your guild...realistically that wont last long with the volume of items, Every new raid will have more and more unwanted stuff for you to yum up. Honestly, if your a more casual playtime player (I kinda am) I haven't even bothered with any wotlk HMs because they don't even feel worth the effort when you can tag along and collect the unwanted raiding scraps (from a pure time investment:epic item ratio)

[Terraelf]

My guild runs DKP. It's rare that I get to multibox in raid (especially while doing progression), but when I do, each toon in the raid instance accumulates DKP and for loot purposes are treated as separate chances. More often, what happens is they want me to bring my tank for fight x and my healer for fight y and my mage for the trash mob leading up to z and then switch to my warlock or hunter for boss r. The DKP is accumulated per the rules as if each toon is independant. Whichever toon is in the raid instance at all for that day gets the attendance DKP now matter how long they are in. Each toon accumulates DKP for boss kills if they are in the raid instance at the time the boss dies. They have seperate DKP pools so might be a situation where one toon is elligible and another toon isn't. So while my individual characters accumulate DKP slower, on the whole I am gaining more DKP per day mostly because I get multiple attendance DKP. This means I will be slow to be the first to be geared, but regular attendance will eventually get everyone geared appropriately. It helps that I have every profession in the game at or above 425 and I'm working on hitting 450 so I can craft everything you can get from a trainer and I am staying on top of my dailies. When the dust clears I'll evenutally have all the craftable stuff and in downtime between raids, I am working on trying to perfect a Heroic Dungeon or two I can 5 man to get badges up and get geared.

[daviddoran]

I say, that if the raid wouldn't happen if you didn't bring more than 1 toon, then each toon you bring should be as equal as any other. Just cause you have 2+ otherwise identical toons doesn't mean you 'get' two rolls for yourself. you need 2x as much gear, therefore 2x as many chances to roll.

However, if they 'let' you bring in more than 1, while another sit out, then I'd just take what they give me and shut up about it.

Thats why I switched servers to play with Fur. It was worth the money to switch to a server where both of us can "duo" a 10 man and just give the loot to whichever character gets the most out of it. If/when we progress to 25 mans, I'm sure we will need all the available toons we have, and I'll probably be bringing in all 6 of my toons, (unless i go crazy and try to 10 box...)

[Yamio]

For me it's really simple; I don't play to have the most loot, so if I'm running multiple shaman in a pug or with friends, then I roll once. Each shaman doesn't get a roll. If I'm bringing a multi class group,i.e; Pally, lock, mage, healer, sh priest, or any variation thereof, if the item is a significant upgrade, then whichever toon that can use it rolls. My multi class group has a lot of clothies and they all are wearing more or less the same gear, if the item is a big upgrade for all of them then they all get a roll.

If it's gear that I can't use or won't use, all my guys pass on it. With my guild the same rules apply.


edited for attrorcious sspelin