Will Blizzard take a stand on dual-boxing?

[pjdell]

I have a hunch that devs are fans of dual-boxing.com, they never admit they like boxing but never deny it either, though if i remember one said it takes some skill to do... i would bet that we might have one of them among us at dual-boxing.com

But honestly what do you think. More and more QQ threads are popping up on wow forums and it wouldn't be the first time blizzard sided with the QQ threads.

It's not against TOS right now, but all they would have to do is set in action a 1click 1 account 1 action policy...

It would be a sad sad day. I would keep doing it with separate computers keyboards and mice if they did that.

[Meeo]

I have a hunch that devs are fans of dual-boxing.com, they never admit they like boxing but never deny it either, though if i remember one said it takes some skill to do... i would bet that we might have one of them among us at dual-boxing.com

But honestly what do you think. More and more QQ threads are popping up on wow forums and it wouldn't be the first time blizzard sided with the QQ threads.

It's not against TOS right now, but all they would have to do is set in action a 1click 1 account 1 action policy...

It would be a sad sad day. I would keep doing it with separate computers keyboards and mice if they did that.

Many times have the devs stated they have multiboxed previously and like to multibox still, but they never did say if they do it within wow.

Blizzard believes Multiboxing to be a playstyle, so when they start ruling out how people play a game they will probably cause more problems in the long run to solve people who QQ about it.

[Svpernova09]

The sky is not falling.

I would think that the financial loss would outweigh the QQ'ers. We are a very small population of WoW. But we represent a fair financial number for them. So long as we're abiding by their rules I see no reason they would side against us. If there comes about some method that they deem against the rules, they'll just patch a fix and we'll have to work around it. Much like the nerf to using the minimap for spellcasting.

[Evilseed]

EDIT: I said something I should keep my mouth shut on.

[Rin]

Hint: $83,700,000/year is a lot of money.
(edit: math)

^^ Exactly..

[Svpernova09]

Yep, thats why I said "But we represent a fair financial number for them"

[TheBigBB]

The sky is not falling.

I would think that the financial loss would outweigh the QQ'ers. We are a very small population of WoW. But we represent a fair financial number for them. So long as we're abiding by their rules I see no reason they would side against us. If there comes about some method that they deem against the rules, they'll just patch a fix and we'll have to work around it. Much like the nerf to using the minimap for spellcasting.A little bird whispered to me that 3.1% of World of Warcraft accounts are tied to a unique billing method (ie, multiboxers). While 3.1% may not seem like a lot, crunch a few numbers for a moment and you'll see why Blizzard wants the multiboxing trend to increase. Drastically increase.

That's interesting, and I wonder where the info comes from. I wouldn't be shocked if it were true, though I don't believe that most people with multiple accounts actively or effectively multibox in the manner that we think of it. I owned 2 accounts for years and only occasionally used them both at once, and never synchronized keyboards. I used to just have a priest I'd put on follow and hit healing once in a while, which I don't think falls into the same category.

Anyway, I think you're correct that regardless of anything else, Blizzard would be stupid to ban multiboxing even if just for monetary reasons.

[Evilseed]

Please stop posting this shit.

Blizzard has stated COUNTLESS times that multiboxing is 100% legit. Even the lead developer is on board with it (Mike M.).

If Blizzard acted on the QQs of players, WoW wouldn't be here anymore, because everyone complains about everything.Well that is a more direct way of saying what I (and I would think everybody else) was thinking :)

[Rin]

Please stop posting this shit.

Blizzard has stated COUNTLESS times that multiboxing is 100% legit. Even the lead developer is on board with it (Mike M.).

If Blizzard acted on the QQs of players, WoW wouldn't be here anymore, because everyone complains about everything.

Fur, who pissed in your cheerios today? I took a *very* quick look at pjdells other posts, and I didn't see another thread like this one. You know the answer to his question, I know it, everyone else knows it too... but maybe he was just curious and didn't want to use the search function :) .

[Hachoo]

I think Fur was talking to the community as a whole (as opposed to just the OP) since this type of thread gets posted daily these days :)

Unfortunately every time someone new signs up theres no way they'll have seen that response prior to making a post just like this one :)

[Duese]

That's always true until the sky actually falls. =)

To add to that point, it's a "i'll believe it when I see it."

Wait, follow not working on vehicles?
Wait, boss fights requiring lots of movement?
Wait, encounters requiring multi-user interactment?

GRAB THE UMBRELLAS! I think it's gonna happen this time!

(To point out, I don't think any of those changes were directly made in spite of MB'ers. So, no, I don't think the sky is falling. I just think that the way blizzard would combat MB'ers is to make lots of user interaction required, which ironically is the same thing that they do when they make new boss fights. The days of "don't stand in the fire" are coming to an end! The new fight mechanic, "Don't stand in the frost!" /utgardpinacle.)

[elsegundo]

I have a hunch that devs are fans of dual-boxing.your hunch is correct. are we done here?




That's always true until the sky actually falls. =)

To add to that point, it's a "i'll believe it when I see it."

Wait, follow not working on vehicles?
Wait, boss fights requiring lots of movement?
Wait, encounters requiring multi-user interactment?

GRAB THE UMBRELLAS! I think it's gonna happen this time!

(To point out, I don't think any of those changes were directly made in spite of MB'ers. So, no, I don't think the sky is falling. I just think that the way blizzard would combat MB'ers is to make lots of user interaction required, which ironically is the same thing that they do when they make new boss fights. The days of "don't stand in the fire" are coming to an end! The new fight mechanic, "Don't stand in the frost!" /utgardpinacle.)
also i would agree and further this by saying that if Blizz is against MB-ing, then they would outright announce it instead of slyly try to make content harder for us to MB. the game is complex and the encounters require a lot more coordination, but that's not because they want to remove all the MB-ers. they're trying to make the instances more fun, more complicated and more satisfying when its completed. having it more difficult for MB-ers is just a side-effect, or if you will, coincidental.

[accretion]

/agree Fur

[Lumibox]

Well, the truth is that it's in the TOS that Blizzard can, at their discretion, ban you for any reason- or no reason.

I don't think legit multiboxers are at any more risk of being banned than legit single players. By which I mean, we can all hope we don't get struck by lightning. That said, more people would have to cancel their accounts and give multiboxing as the reason for cancellation than those who subscribe multiple accounts for them to even think about changing it, IMO.

We forget that, whilst multiboxers may be a small part of WOW, those who forum QQ are also a small demographic (even if it seems like they are growing) and are often far more impotent than us (because people who threaten to quit over X are different from people who actually do).

ed-spelling

[blbjtb]

I think Fur was talking to the community as a whole (as opposed to just the OP) since this type of thread gets posted daily these days

This.

I've been doing this (multiboxing) for well over a year. Pretty much every day someone says "the sky is falling, blizzard is going to ban us".

Guess what. I'm still here. ;)

Oh Crap the sky is falling....No wait thats just rain... Odd it tastes alot like tears..Oh its more QQ

(pretty lame Joke but once I started to type it I felt committed!)

[pjdell]

I think Fur was talking to the community as a whole (as opposed to just the OP) since this type of thread gets posted daily these days

This.

I've been doing this (multiboxing) for well over a year. Pretty much every day someone says "the sky is falling, blizzard is going to ban us".

Guess what. I'm still here. ;)I'm a little bit dissapointed that you included my thread here in "that type of thread"... I was just curious as to what people think. And i used search to see if i found a post that i felt was what i was looking for, and i couldn't find one. I'm sorry if there have been others like this but i didn't want to put in every possible word into the search box to find it.

I wasn't telling you all that doom is around the corner. I am not posting any "shit" that is in anyway going to do anything except spawn some conversation. Guess i was wrong

There are things in game that i'm sure blizzard never expected to change that are now much different.
If you think QQs never start the ball rolling for blizzard to change something you probably havn't played since vanilla wow. I'm guessing you have though so i don't know why you'd think that.


I apologize for posting something that is OBVIOUSLY incredibly stupid.

[Sam DeathWalker]

I dont see how they can stop it ... I could say I am two people, I die enough times that I could even be a pick up group lol.

[zanthor]

I dont see how they can stop it ... I could say I am two people, I die enough times that I could even be a pick up group lol.Remove /follow.

All aspects that people complain about with Multiboxing are finished right there.

[Basilikos]

One thing to consider is that even if people actually start quitting over multiboxing, I doubt that would do much. Either the people who threaten to quit about other issues are serious and go through with it or they're just faking it. But in either case, pretty much every one of those issues (imagined or real) still exists in the game (i.e. "X" class is overpowered as well as other dumb things). Unless there were a massive exodus all at once, I doubt anyone would notice or even care.

[Malekyth]

Something a lot of players don't realize is, if they were allowed to design the game through whining and petitions and platitudes and threats to quit, we'd end up with a poorly-designed game. They don't understand the need to leave game design to the game designers. They're demonstrably better at it than players are -- they made World of Warcraft, after all.

Fortunately Blizzard, in a position to know better than any of us, doesn't believe that multiboxing breaks the game. They base this decision on a lot of different factors, including their apparent conclusion that multiboxing does not unfairly and negatively impact anyone's game experience. If some very vocal people on the messageboards choose to work themselves into an emotional frenzy over the subject then that's their privilege, but Blizzard has been clear that this emotional response is not equivalent to a game-breaker requiring revision.

So ... done. Understand who calls the shots and you don't need to worry.

[suicidesspyder]

Has anyone here played games like socom on ps2/ps2. Well i did and there was this thing called ranking up to get the most points to number one. No where in the terms did it say it was illegal to play in your own room full of your own ps2's. For me this accounted for 17 a lot more money then this game. When they found what people were doing they put in patches but never banned the account. All glitchers did was found a new way to do it again. So i dont think blizzard will ever do that because they understand it takes SKILL and some people dont have the time others do. So they will allow people to multibox to allow those few to enjoy the game at a more relaxing pace, Have any of you ever noticed tho as playing onr account your always looking for a group pr people are asking you to group with them if your a healer or tank class. Now they leave you alone they pull up your the good ole /who for the area and see 5 of you and normally leave you alone.

MULTIBOXING WILL NEVER EVER DIE.

[zanthor]

Something a lot of players don't realize is, if they were allowed to design the game through whining and petitions and platitudes and threats to quit, we'd end up with a poorly-designed game. They don't understand the need to leave game design to the game designers. They're demonstrably better at it than players are -- they made World of Warcraft, after all.

Fortunately Blizzard, in a position to know better than any of us, doesn't believe that multiboxing breaks the game. They base this decision on a lot of different factors, including their apparent conclusion that multiboxing does not unfairly and negatively impact anyone's game experience. If some very vocal people on the messageboards choose to work themselves into an emotional frenzy over the subject then that's their privilege, but Blizzard has been clear that this emotional response is not equivalent to a game-breaker requiring revision.

So ... done. Understand who calls the shots and you don't need to worry.The funny thing is blizzard listens to the community more than any other mmo I've seen hit the market. When Blizzard was developing WoW I had a friend who worked there, and he was constantly asking questions about what his friends liked/disliked/loved/hated/could improve about EQ, he also asked about other games, UO, AC, DAOC, etc... we had great in depth discussions about every aspect of the game. Many of teh topics of these discussions he said he put in the idea bucket/suggestion forums they had internally. And one of the reasons I've been playing WoW since early beta (and one of my close friends since F&F Alpha) is that Blizzard listened.

Now that in mind, Blizzard ALSO has stats to back things up. They track every aspect of the game, think about the fact that they can restore your account back to an earlier state, this isn't an accident at all, it's good planning, logging, etc. While there are some issues in WoW, Blizzard isn't apt to make knee jerk reactions to community outcry, but if you pay attention, you will see that they also LISTEN to that outcry (Honor points reset @ Lich King launch...)

[OzPhoenix]

Surprised I must say to see threads like this on Dualboxing.

As we all (should) know, if Blizzard wanted to discourage multiboxing, the removal of the /follow command will kill it absolutely and without exception.

That said, I have to agree with Fur (though somewhat more diplomatically...hehe). Multiboxing, having been around for at least the last 10 years, is here to stay.

[ImaHealer]

I wonder how many Devs are 3x boxers "Mammoth 3 person mount"
or 2x Boxers "Motorcycle 2 person mount"


:-) just a thought

[Basilikos]

I wonder how many Devs are 3x boxers "Mammoth 3 person mount"
or 2x Boxers "Motorcycle 2 person mount"


:-) just a thoughtI've always wondered what the decisions were behind the number of players per mount.

[heffner]

Personally I don't like the fact that anytime Blizzard refers to multi-boxing they always indicate "currently" or "at this time". This leaves the issue open with little repercussion. So, they have taken a stand. However, it's a stand that doesn't offer permanent closure to the issue.

I would guess that multiboxers make up a very small percentage of players and the number of QQers outnumber multiboxers a thousand fold, if not more. Blizzard has no good reason to keep us happy. However, do they have good reason to cave into the QQers?? I don't know. It's easy to associate the QQing with nerfs or changes, but I believe the devs actually notice these things after some playtime and often make what they consider the appropriate changes.

Is there a point worrying about it? I guess that's up to the individual, but some people worry about planes crashing into their house too. Right now I think it is unlikely they would make changes to impact this playstyle any more than they already have.

In addition, hopefully they have observed the trend in other MMORPGs where on the decline in subscribers there is an increase in multiboxing. So, disallowing it would probably not be a wise business decision.

[Sam DeathWalker]

They wont remove /follow for group members as that would be a nerf to everyone playing the game. And I'v been playing EQ for years without out of group follow so ....

[Starbuck_Jones]

/rant on
We pay for x copies of the game, we pay x monthly subscription fees, we do nothing that any other group of x players cannot do. We use the same UI mods and same in game macro and command system that everyone has access too. The perceived advantages of multi-boxing do not over rule the disadvantages that multi-boxing has. The internet is full of hate and fan boys. I think what aggravates me most about this topic is how much it causes the multi-boxing community to get worked up and all butt hurt about it. We are a minority and will be looked on and pointed at and used as an excuse to all the evils of the world because we don't play the same way everyone else does.
/rant off

The reason I multi-box is that it removed everything I came to hate most about the game. Other people.

[Ellay]

Nothing is ever set in stone, you can't bank on anything in life, except that your going to die at some point.

Dual-Boxing is very special and this community makes it even more so. If I could reference an anology to compare Dual-Boxing to WoW or any MMO, I'd say it would be that cute girl in class you know likes you and looks at you a lot, and you feel the same way but your too shy or bashful to say anything. That's us :)

so I throw out lots of Smilies because Blizzard is super cute, :love: :love: :love: :love: :love:

[OzPhoenix]

The reason I multi-box is that it removed everything I came to hate most about the game. Other people.I must admit, that was a big factor in my decision to multibox also. While the game is great, it has easily the worst community/playerbase I've ever seen. The good people in there, are very few and far between.

[Xzin]

Look guys. Aside from removing /follow (or instead of) they could just make it so damn annoying TO box that nobody wants to. Change the system, don't force people to change to adapt to it. That is all they would have to do. They are already doing some of it - even if it isn't intentional. Dynamic outdoor instances/quests that wreck /follow. Vehicles. DKs. Dungeon content that makes it impossible to progress with a single person at the helm, etc.

I see no compelling reason why Bliz would want to make boxers go away though. But I don't see any evidence they are encouraging boxing either.

[OzPhoenix]

Look guys. Aside from removing /follow (or instead of) they could just make it so damn annoying TO box that nobody wants to. Change the system, don't force people to change to adapt to it. That is all they would have to do. They are already doing some of it - even if it isn't intentional. Dynamic outdoor instances/quests that wreck /follow. Vehicles. DKs. Dungeon content that makes it impossible to progress with a single person at the helm, etc.

I see no compelling reason why Bliz would want to make boxers go away though. But I don't see any evidence they are encouraging boxing either.I agree, the /follow is the nuclear option. Personally I think Blizzard is never going to actively discourage multiboxing because there's no valid reason to.

That said, Wrath has been I think particularly un-fun to level 5-toon teams in, given the prevalence of collection quests in particular, but that's more I think somewhat poor design than any deliberate decision.

[Bena]

If boxing offered a true advantage over other players then I'm sure Bliz would 'fix' it. The fact is that in PvP a 5man box team can get utterly destroyed by only 2 other players so there goes that theory; in PvE.. who cares if a boxer is doing his own instance runs. The resources that his 5 toons use on the server side are paid for by 5 seperate fees just like 5 separate players. Again boxing is not doing anything that a regular group wouldn't do.

I agree with Bliz when they said that it offers an 'alternative play style'.. nothing more. The only advantage that we have is that we can run an instance whenever we want.. as opposed to lfg for 2h. ok I give them that :)

Though after reading about the npc helpers in EQ2, and seeing some of the quests in wotlk; I'm not going to be surprised if one day Bliz offers an option to buy yourself an extra account with an npc healer/tank that will follow you..heh

[Xzin]

But I don't see any evidence they are encouraging boxing either.


Only thing that comes to mind is all the multiboxer screenshots on the front page of worldofwarcraft.com.

Yeah but those look pretty and don't say I AM BOXING LEARN HOW TO DO IT HERE. Not sure I see that as compelling evidence that Blizz is actively encouraging boxing.

[Xzin]

The fact is that in PvP a 5man box team can get utterly destroyed by only 2 other players so there goes that theory

I don't think I can think of a SINGLE instance when 2 players beat me. I can think of perhaps a handfull over 50,000+ kills where 2 players managed to one shot ONE of my characters before promptly dying. I am not kidding when I say that there were time I LITERALLY took 10 players and wound up still standing. Those were some FAST AB matches :) A lot has changed of course since the original game but even then..... 2 vs 5, even a boxer... unless they are a terrible one, should not really be a contest. All things equal (gear, levels, etc).

[zanthor]

They wont remove /follow for group members as that would be a nerf to everyone playing the game. And I'v been playing EQ for years without out of group follow so ....Yep, you played a game based around "Stand here and pull shit to this safe corner" for years multiboxing... as you discovered (I think, you are sorta slow on the uptake at times) in WoW you go to the mobs, not the other way around.

[Bena]

lol.. yes I suck in pvp .. there's a reason I don't do it ;) but the times when a rogue would sap me, warrior would charge in and fear shout me, and both proceed to rip me a new one was quiet a few :).

I don't think I can think of a SINGLE instance when 2 players beat me. I can think of perhaps a handfull over 50,000+ kills where 2 players managed to one shot ONE of my characters before promptly dying. I am not kidding when I say that there were time I LITERALLY took 10 players and wound up still standing. Those were some FAST AB matches :) A lot has changed of course since the original game but even then..... 2 vs 5, even a boxer... unless they are a terrible one, should not really be a contest. All things equal (gear, levels, etc).

[OzPhoenix]

The fact is that in PvP a 5man box team can get utterly destroyed by only 2 other players so there goes that theory

I don't think I can think of a SINGLE instance when 2 players beat me. I can think of perhaps a handfull over 50,000+ kills where 2 players managed to one shot ONE of my characters before promptly dying. I am not kidding when I say that there were time I LITERALLY took 10 players and wound up still standing. Those were some FAST AB matches :) A lot has changed of course since the original game but even then..... 2 vs 5, even a boxer... unless they are a terrible one, should not really be a contest. All things equal (gear, levels, etc).This I think reflects at least in part the utter disorganisation of most PvP'ing in WoW.

I've definitely been in situations where I've taken on well more than 5 Alliance, only the smash them all watching with amusement as each one of my 5 Shamans takes a little damage, none taking a lot.

I do however believe that the general point stands, that, all else being equal, a multiboxer will struggle against a coordinated team. That is, 5 people, playing independently, but using (as we do) various assist and other targeting macros to focus fire their opponents down.

We just don't see it in BG's is all, where I've long since stopped taking screenshots showing my 5 guys in the top 5 positions on kills, with no deaths either.

[Basilikos]

They wont remove /follow for group members as that would be a nerf to everyone playing the game. And I'v been playing EQ for years without out of group follow so ....Yeah, I've thought about that before. Manual movement on alts would be lame, but it would be doable. Many people here already do manual movement in combat.

[Basilikos]

Personally I don't like the fact that anytime Blizzard refers to multi-boxing they always indicate "currently" or "at this time". This leaves the issue open with little repercussion. So, they have taken a stand. However, it's a stand that doesn't offer permanent closure to the issue.

...

In addition, hopefully they have observed the trend in other MMORPGs where on the decline in subscribers there is an increase in multiboxing. So, disallowing it would probably not be a wise business decision.Blizzard covers anything they say with "currently" and "at this time." They have to. I haven't studied the trends involving MMO populations, but it does make sense that multiboxers would be the ones to keep a game going for another year or two.

[Basilikos]

The reason I multi-box is that it removed everything I came to hate most about the game. Other people.I must admit, that was a big factor in my decision to multibox also. While the game is great, it has easily the worst community/playerbase I've ever seen. The good people in there, are very few and far between.Damn straight. I love not needing other people to do things I want to do when I want to do them.

[Basilikos]

But I don't see any evidence they are encouraging boxing either.Only thing that comes to mind is all the multiboxer screenshots on the front page of worldofwarcraft.com.True. But I believe that those screenshots coincide with large QQ threads about multiboxing just to rub it in people's faces. Let's recall that several devs multibox. As far as not encouraging multiboxing, though, I'm pretty sure Blizzard is just trying to get the point across to the general population of WoW that multiboxing is NOT required in order to do well.

[Catamer]

it's amazing how many "mount" quests, and if it's not a mount quest it's a mind control quest which are incredibly hard to do as a multiboxer.

I hate the mount quests, it doesn't matter how well you play YOUR character or how much fire power you brought etc. it only matters how well you play mount.

[Basilikos]

it's amazing how many "mount" quests, and if it's not a mount quest it's a mind control quest which are incredibly hard to do as a multiboxer.

I hate the mount quests, it doesn't matter how well you play YOUR character or how much fire power you brought etc. it only matters how well you play mount.It could seem that way, but let's recall that not too long ago, Chilton (I think it was him, anyway) pointed out that they are going to create content to endorse multiboxing to some degree. Perhaps they simply forgot to consider us when they setup the vehicle system.

[oMek]

imo multiboxing has got pretty big. and it brings in alot of money for blizzard ie 5x accounts/subs ect. and it does not affect the ingame economy.. so why would they really care?

[Gadzooks]

Personally I don't like the fact that anytime Blizzard refers to multi-boxing they always indicate "currently" or "at this time". This leaves the issue open with little repercussion. So, they have taken a stand. However, it's a stand that doesn't offer permanent closure to the issue.

I would guess that multiboxers make up a very small percentage of players and the number of QQers outnumber multiboxers a thousand fold, if not more. Blizzard has no good reason to keep us happy. However, do they have good reason to cave into the QQers?? I don't know. It's easy to associate the QQing with nerfs or changes, but I believe the devs actually notice these things after some playtime and often make what they consider the appropriate changes.

Is there a point worrying about it? I guess that's up to the individual, but some people worry about planes crashing into their house too. Right now I think it is unlikely they would make changes to impact this playstyle any more than they already have.

In addition, hopefully they have observed the trend in other MMORPGs where on the decline in subscribers there is an increase in multiboxing. So, disallowing it would probably not be a wise business decision.No worries about the language they use, they *have* to use that kind of language, it's wiggle room should a situation develop that forces them to do something about it.

For instance, if the account thief/botter community started using MBing as a group, and there was a widespread release of tools to automate it, and a significant number of players were using them, Blizzard would HAVE to react and do something about it - up to and including banning the practice.

QQing, however, will not effect us.

I think Blizzard respects our community, and the GMs and CMs are always posting in our favor - and that is a direct result of this community being open, honest, hardcore about following the rules, and we don't go out of our way to troll the WoW forums or in the game. We're well behaved, respectful, and generally well informed on the policies and don't allow discussion of the underbelly of the game (botters, etc...) here.

I think as long as we keep to those standards, as a community, we're fine. If, and I think it's a big if, there's a concern, we'll get a head's up, or be aware of an issue developing.

Blizzard knows all about MBing. Kalgan stated in an interview he did it in EQ, so even the top devs know the mechanics intimately, and we're not, as a community, trying to hide *anything*.

So relax, and just read the CSF forums regularly, and keep up to date on the policies and such. We're cool, as far as Blizzard is concerned, and don't let their "wiggle room" language scare you.

[Smahs]

It is a different play style. Tbh I was really bored of WoW before I started multi - boxing (even tho I got it 4-5 days ago) it's just like model editing stuff to make it new, getting a UI, and respecing.