Upgrading to Vista 64 for 5x fun? I need opinions!

[Clovis]

Hi folks,


I'll appologize in advance if this is the wrong forum and take no offense if it's moved.


Okay, so currently I'm running an Intel Duo Core E6850 (3.0ghz) , 4gb of ram, 8800 GTS w/ 640mb and Vista home premium (32bit).

Dual boxing (2 characters) looks great and works very well but now that I'm getting into five boxing with one machine I can still do it but the FPS goes down to 20+ with 5 characters (versus 50-60 with my 2 mains in the new WOTLK zones).

Based on the previous feedback I've recieved from my fellow boxers (Thank you!) I'm going to upgrade to a quad core and to 8gb of ram and hoping this improves but my question is, is it worthwhile to also upgrade to Vista 64?

What advantages does 64 offer over 32 for 5xing?

Also, my current CPU runs at 3.00ghz - a quad 6600 runs at 2.4ghz and oddly enough is cheaper by $10 then my current CPU, go figure - will the drop in speed actually result in improvement due to going to a quad from a duo, or should I try for something a little higher speed. Keep in mind to avoid also upgrading the MB, I'm limited to a 65 nm chip.

Thanks!



-Clovis

[algol]

64-bit means you can rock the 8GB of RAM. It helps for running x5 on one rig. Vista over XP...there are differences, but not major ones to most people. Vista fixes enough of XP's persistent bugs that it's a solid choice after SP1 to be a solid choice (unless you have an old computer with puny memory capacity...which you won't be multiboxing on anyway!).

[Clovis]

Thanks for the response :)

All though I'm currently using vista home premium (not XP) and I'm debating upgrading to vista 64.

More microsoft fun, it's $159 to upgrade to 64 through microsoft, yet $179 to buy it new (full install) from the local store I bought vista from to begin with, go figure.

[jdpatt]

1) If you want to go over 4g of RAM, you don't have much choice...you HAVE to use a 64 bit OS...either Vista or XP, but like the other posters, I'd recommend Vista. You'll also open up more of the memory you already have, since 32 bit OS will really only let you use a little over 3g...even if you have 4 installed. I'm not sure I completely understand why myself, but do a search on Google for "Windows 4 gig limit" and you can learn why.

2) In my opinion, the disadvantages to a 64 bit OS are minor (some driver issues, mostly with older printers and peripherals...some older software won't work), and the advantages are huge. I'd say go for it.

[algol]

Yeah. I figured I'd toss that bit in though since the topic was ambiguous, in case anyone came looking for their own answers.

Check Newegg for OEM licenses. I would be surprised if you have to pay over $100. For single-computer multiboxing, the memory limits in 32-bit suck.

[Clovis]

Thanks again for the replies and I'll take a look at newegg.

I know when I first build this machine, prior to SP1 with vista it only reconized 3 of the 4 gb of ram, however since then on the "welcome center" all 4 gb and even 8gb when I tested that were reconized, but if it's being fully utilized is another question all togather.

Vista 64 it is!

[Freddie]

Keep in mind to avoid also upgrading the MB, I'm limited to a 65 nm chip.
Are you sure you can't flash the bios and upgrade to a 45 nm Wolfdale or Yorkfield (i.e. Q9300)?

With regard to your question about quad vs duo, since you're got five simultaneous processes, I would take the quad at a lower speed. Five processes use all four cores, so if the CPU runs at 2.4 GHz it's actually working at a rate of 4 x 2.4 = 9.6 GHz. With your duo the max work rate is 2 x 3.0 = 6.0 GHz.

With a Yorkfield you'll get a little extra bonus since they are faster clock-for-clock than the older Conroes.

[Clovis]

You can flash a MB to allow for 45 NM? On newegg it's listed as a manufacturing type so I was under the impression it was an actual hardware, not software issue? Could you clarify?

I checked my motherboard manual and it only says that it uses a socket LGA775 (up to a quad) but nothing about the 45/65 rating so is that rating specific to the chip itself?

-Clovis







Keep in mind to avoid also upgrading the MB, I'm limited to a 65 nm chip.
Are you sure you can't flash the bios and upgrade to a 45 nm Wolfdale or Yorkfield (i.e. Q9300)?

With regard to your question about quad vs duo, since you're got five simultaneous processes, I would take the quad at a lower speed. Five processes use all four cores, so if the CPU runs at 2.4 GHz it's actually working at a rate of 4 x 2.4 = 9.6 GHz. With your duo the max work rate is 2 x 3.0 = 6.0 GHz.

With a Yorkfield you'll get a little extra bonus since they are faster clock-for-clock than the older Conroes.

[pengwynman]

You can flash a MB to allow for 45 NM? On newegg it's listed as a manufacturing type so I was under the impression it was an actual hardware, not software issue? Could you clarify?

I checked my motherboard manual and it only says that it uses a socket LGA775 (up to a quad) but nothing about the 45/65 rating so is that rating specific to the chip itself?

-Clovis SOME mobos you can flash to allow for 45nm, if they came out right around the time the 45nm cpu's started hitting the market. my old asus mobo that i had an e6600 in wouldn't run my new q9550 so i had to upgrade. getting a mobo with a newer chipset never hurt either.

also, in regards to vista 64-bit.... if you already bought vista home premium, you should be able to simply request a copy of the 64-bit dvd. costs like $10 for shipping:
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsvista/1033/ordermedia/default.mspx

[Ellusionist]

Vista Home Premium (64-bit) is what I use. I've never seen it crash yet.
Ultimate would be a waste of money for me--it has "0" extra features I would use. Just like XP Home -vs- Pro.

Running keyclone and 5 accounts on Vista x64. It does great. Can't say I've ever seen a lick of instability.

[algol]

Vista was patched a while ago to lie and show the installed memory, not the addressable memory. You're still only able to use ~3GB.

[pengwynman]

Vista was patched a while ago to lie and show the installed memory, not the addressable memory. You're still only able to use ~3GB.what he means is, the 32-bit version was patched to show total installed memory. You're still only able to address a TOTAL of 4GB of memory (this includes video card and other component memory, in addition to the system memory). If you get a 64-bit version of vista (or any OS for that matter) you'll be able to address more than the 4GB max that applies to 32-bit OS's.

Also, I would agree that Vista Ultimate isn't really worth it unless you need more drive encryption and remote connection options... nothing that would make it better for multiboxing or gaming in general.

[Clovis]

So wait, you can upgrade from Vista Home Preimum 32x to Vista Home Premium 64x?

I was under the impression if you wanted 64x you had to go with vista ultimate? Could you clarify how this is done?

Thanks,

[Clovis]

Okay, so I answered my own question ;)

So I'm running vista home premium x32 - apparently to have the option to upgrade to 64 (which requires a fresh install of vista, correct me if I'm wrong?) I would have to get the retail version of it; apparently I bought an OEM copy previously so now I'm looking to see if they're is an upgrade option for cheaper way (a retail x64 cost $120) or if I'll have to simply buy another copy of vista but vista 64 instead, ugh.

-Clov

[Clovis]

Ah-ha.. more research.

So yeah, I tried to link provided to get Microsoft to send out a 64 bit version of Vista, however for the product key it has to be a retail product key, not an OEM.

When I build this machine last year, I went to a local computer store to buy a copy of vista and the OEM 32 is what they handed me, which would explain why it was $120 versus $230 (for the retail at newegg or bestbuy).

After a return trip to the store they were nice enough to confirm the only way for me to get the 64 bit version to to rebuy the OEM version (64bit) for another $120... ugh, that's a bit irritating to say the least.

Oh well, so it's an extra hundred bucks added into the cost of multiboxing... damn you microsoft.

[Ellusionist]

Ah-ha.. more research.

So yeah, I tried to link provided to get Microsoft to send out a 64 bit version of Vista, however for the product key it has to be a retail product key, not an OEM.

When I build this machine last year, I went to a local computer store to buy a copy of vista and the OEM 32 is what they handed me, which would explain why it was $120 versus $230 (for the retail at newegg or bestbuy).

After a return trip to the store they were nice enough to confirm the only way for me to get the 64 bit version to to rebuy the OEM version (64bit) for another $120... ugh, that's a bit irritating to say the least.

Oh well, so it's an extra hundred bucks added into the cost of multiboxing... damn you microsoft.I think the link posted above would allow you to retreive the 64-bit version using your current 32-bit license. At least that's what it seemed like when I visited the site...

Which would cost you ... shipping? You wouldn't have to re-purchase a fresh 64-bit version.

[heffner]

I saw a table comparing the various Vista's available and I believe Ultimate allows you to use more RAM. Something like 32G vs. 16G max. Not really relevant for our use atm, but it is a difference.

[Clovis]

The link provided requires you have a retail version, not OEM version of Vista. When I entered the product key from my OEM disc, it says "no offers are available".

OEM / "system builders" version: $120

Retail version: $230

That apparently is the reason.

Thanks,

-Clov





Ah-ha.. more research.

So yeah, I tried to link provided to get Microsoft to send out a 64 bit version of Vista, however for the product key it has to be a retail product key, not an OEM.

When I build this machine last year, I went to a local computer store to buy a copy of vista and the OEM 32 is what they handed me, which would explain why it was $120 versus $230 (for the retail at newegg or bestbuy).

After a return trip to the store they were nice enough to confirm the only way for me to get the 64 bit version to to rebuy the OEM version (64bit) for another $120... ugh, that's a bit irritating to say the least.

Oh well, so it's an extra hundred bucks added into the cost of multiboxing... damn you microsoft.I think the link posted above would allow you to retreive the 64-bit version using your current 32-bit license. At least that's what it seemed like when I visited the site...

Which would cost you ... shipping? You wouldn't have to re-purchase a fresh 64-bit version.


I think the link posted above would allow you to retreive the 64-bit version using your current 32-bit license. At least that's what it seemed like when I visited the site...

Which would cost you ... shipping? You wouldn't have to re-purchase a fresh 64-bit version.

[Freddie]

I checked my motherboard manual and it only says that it uses a socket LGA775 (up to a quad) but nothing about the 45/65 rating so is that rating specific to the chip itself?
I think the only way you can know is to go to the motherboard manufacturer's website, look up the board, and check the list of supported CPUs. I don't think you can rely on the manual for this purpose because it may have been printed before Intel introduced the CPUs you're interested in. If your revision of the motherboard requires an updated bios for a particular CPU the site should tell you.



You can flash a MB to allow for 45 NM? On newegg it's listed as a manufacturing type so I was under the impression it was an actual hardware, not software issue? Could you clarify?
Here's an article that answers your question:

http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.aspx?i=3138&cp=2

[Clovis]

Okay, so apparently 45nm isn't a problem with my MB.

It's an Abit IP35 Pro and while their website has been unavailable to me to verify, I was able to pull up a few reviews on the board and each of them talks about how the board is prepared for the "current" (at the time) 65nm as well as the next generation 45nm.

Since I've resigned myself to the fact that I have to purchase yet another OEM copy of vista home premium in order to run 64 I'm running some ideas as well. (if you bought an OEM version like I did, you get either 32 or 64; you can't switch one from the other; if you want to it requires purchasing the 64 bit version - only microsoft forces you to buy software twice for the same machine).

The retail versions of Vista are transferable from one machine to another (provided it's uninstalled on the previous) but the OEMs, once installed and activated are tied to the motherboard; meaning you can change out any hardware except the mother board before having to buy a new copy. This also means that if your motherboard is defective and dies at some point, Microsoft being the total bastards they are will require you to buy a new copy of Vista as well all though I've heard stories of people calling into MS and being able to get past this if their board is defective but apparently it depends on the indivisual tech rep you get and not their offical policy.

Anyhow, my old gaming rig (built 6 years ago, retired 5 years ago when I built this one) has been resurrected as a media server - at least that's the idea - currently it has a fresh copy of XP on it but that's it. (It's a Pentium 4, 2.55GHz, 1gb of ram, GeForce 5700 LE and dual 250gb hard drives. However, according to my wife there is a problem with file transfering between an XP system and a Vista system which effectively defeats the purpose of the media server, unless it too is also running Vista... (vista only works with vista, a lot of new games now require "vista only" under the regarded games for windows.. if you want direct x 10, you need vista.. see a trend of evilness here?)

So, since my copy of vista is tied to the motherboard and I have to buy another OEM copy of vista if I want the 64 bit, I'm considering moving this motherboard/CPU to the media server and running VISTA and getting a TV tuner card to have it act as my DVR as well. Talk about a waste of $500 from a year ago - an IP35 Pro MB + Intel Duo E6850 CPU 3.0GHZ - reduced to a simple media server. But, this would allow me to pick up a new i7 920 CPU and accomping motherboard.

Then again, convincing myself to buy this is one thing, convicing my wife to give the approval in the budget is a whole other story, lol

What I would like to do is simply upgrade to vista 64, upgrade from 4 to 8gb of ram and see if this is enough to 5 box the way I want to. Currently I can run 5 characters but it's in the 20-25 FPS range and I haven't seen how it bad it would be in WOTLK all though my two mains (74 resto shaman, 73 BM hunter) dual box in WOTLK just fine both running at 50-60 FPS. But of course to do this, would require buying 64 and tying it to the motherboard and we're back to square one - BUT, then again I just remembered the you can run VISTA without activating for... 30 days? That may be an options, or maybe my 32bit would activate the 64 bit, so far I haven't been able to get an answer on that yet.

Thanks for your help everyone,



-Clovis

[Chaosomega]

Screw vista, me and a blizz rep. talked and figured out that the reason why my wow gave me error 131, 132, 134 is because vista. Vista's crappy os bugged my HD to the core. (i reformatted still nothing)



i have sice gone back to xp and it works fine.

[algol]

Screw vista, me and a blizz rep. talked and figured out that the reason why my wow gave me error 131, 132, 134 is because vista. Vista's crappy os bugged my HD to the core. (i reformatted still nothing)



i have sice gone back to xp and it works fine.

Um, okay... 8|

[Ellusionist]

Screw vista, me and a blizz rep. talked and figured out that the reason why my wow gave me error 131, 132, 134 is because vista. Vista's crappy os bugged my HD to the core. (i reformatted still nothing)



i have sice gone back to xp and it works fine.

Um, okay... 8|Ditto!

Reminds me of all the people I've had tell me stories about viruses that they "have on floppy disks so they can mess with people". One was a story of a little man that came out and started eating your screen. Your monitor was then permanently damaged.

Not even 6 months ago, someone told me they had a "windows script" that would let them access their computer hundreds of miles away using power lines or street lamps. Using them to repeat or "mesh" a wireless signal as far as they wanted.

LOL!