Sharp skill curve adding a tank to the mix?

[unseen]

I've been multiboxing 4 warlocks and a priest up to 70 where I already had some characters ready to throw into the mix (mage, warrior, paladin, druid) to set up a "proper" pve team.

I've done several instances with 4 warlocks and a priest so far and found it pretty manageable and fun. I went into mana-tombs in heroic mode just to see the difference and wiped twice just clearing the first three pulls in. Granted, my guys have trash gear - but considering how little my gear affects my demons I realized I will have to get a real tank.

So last night I got my protection warrior all set up, modified a few macros for my slaves to target off of him and I was set to go. I went through Shadow Labs in normal mode to get a feel for it and it was pretty rough going.

Here's the troubles I ran into:
I had to worry a lot more about placement, letting my tank run ahead. Previously this was a non-issue. I would forget to take my guys off follow, leading them all right into melee range to be cleaved. I would get so focused on my tank getting heals that I'd look up and notice nobody is dpsing. I would be so focused on dpsing that my tank wouldn't get enough heals. Num lock would be turned off, which meant no heals for my tank since my heals are bound to my number keys (I'm no longer in range to hear the heals going off, which was very helpful in my previous group composition) -- this wiped me twice. I noticed a large drop in dps due to that 4th dpser not being there. He happens to be the best geared :(. (Additionally, that one warlock I'm missing already has 375 alchemy and herbalism.)I'm going to keep trying this, but I've got to say moving from 2 classes to 3 has added a whole new level of complexity. Unless someone can confirm that a 4 warlock 1 priest team can do heroics in wotlk I think this is the only way I can really proceed. My plan was to be able to do heroics.

[Biz]

I wiped a LOT at first it just takes time to get used to. I have a spammable dps macro right next to a spammable healing macro which makes remembering to do both a lot easier.

[Dominian]

I've been multiboxing 4 warlocks and a priest up to 70 where I already had some characters ready to throw into the mix (mage, warrior, paladin, druid) to set up a "proper" pve team.

I've done several instances with 4 warlocks and a priest so far and found it pretty manageable and fun. I went into mana-tombs in heroic mode just to see the difference and wiped twice just clearing the first three pulls in. Granted, my guys have trash gear - but considering how little my gear affects my demons I realized I will have to get a real tank.

So last night I got my protection warrior all set up, modified a few macros for my slaves to target off of him and I was set to go. I went through Shadow Labs in normal mode to get a feel for it and it was pretty rough going.

Here's the troubles I ran into:
I had to worry a lot more about placement, letting my tank run ahead. Previously this was a non-issue. I would forget to take my guys off follow, leading them all right into melee range to be cleaved. I would get so focused on my tank getting heals that I'd look up and notice nobody is dpsing. I would be so focused on dpsing that my tank wouldn't get enough heals. Num lock would be turned off, which meant no heals for my tank since my heals are bound to my number keys (I'm no longer in range to hear the heals going off, which was very helpful in my previous group composition) -- this wiped me twice. I noticed a large drop in dps due to that 4th dpser not being there. He happens to be the best geared :(. (Additionally, that one warlock I'm missing already has 375 alchemy and herbalism.)I'm going to keep trying this, but I've got to say moving from 2 classes to 3 has added a whole new level of complexity. Unless someone can confirm that a 4 warlock 1 priest team can do heroics in wotlk I think this is the only way I can really proceed. My plan was to be able to do heroics.

Its always possible to do heroics if you outgear them enough but the easy way would be to use the paladin to tank instead of the warrior... Dont get me wrong, both can do it but its alot easier to make tank macro's with the paladin.

I would recomend ranged dps mage/warlock/boomkin druid..

Earth and moon vs curse of elements outrules each others so you dont realy need the druid but he does actually have some decent cc.. (hibernate)

[eqjoe]

I always set my arrow keys on my keyboard to pass only to my followers. If I want to break follow or move/face my team without following my tank, I simply use an arrow key. Bind a key and use it for both nukes on your dps casters and heals for your healer. That way, when you are nuking, you are healing. The thing to watch out for is healer aggro. Build is important here as well as mixing in "fade" if you are playing priest. I use TwoBoxToolKit so that my healer can whisper the tank when he is low on mana. I have mana pots in a toolbar with a key assigned that is not bound anywhere else for my priest.... I might change this and use a button on the ClickBoxer interface so that I can free up that key.

You have lots of options. Part of the fun is figuring out what works for you and downing that BossMob. :)


-j

[DgtlSorcrs]

I've been multiboxing a Prot pally, Holy Priest, and Arcane Mage together for some time, so I'm quite used to a tank in the mix.

For my $0.02 worth, I'll tell you how I manage... the tank is my master. I just couldn't conceive of running into battle any other way. All my other toons have /assist TANK_NAME /cast SOME SPELL macros set up for their "opener" dps. Every time I change targets on my tank, I can just whack that to focus fire on the new mob. If I then want to switch tank to something else, I just use other spells than the one with the /assist.

My setup for entering combat is to stop just outside of aggro range, then hit a quick "backstep" on my slaves to get them to stick where they are, then range or face pull with the pally... range if Im not worried about aoe/cleave, face if I am.

Nice thing with a pally is that if my slaves start to pull aggro on something, I hit consecrate and my "follow me" button, and suddenly my squishies are right next to me in my consecrate, and the mobs generally tend to forget about them and go for my pally.

I've also had luck when I was first leveling my priest using a rogue/priest combo. There, I had the rogue stealth, the priest would pull with shadow word pain, and when the mob came running, the rogue would cehap shot and I'd dps like hell, hoping to kill them before they murdered either. It was a lot dicier than runnin in with my pally, but it worked.

Either way, for me, there's no way I'd have a tank/mele on any by the master. With everyone else following, they're automatically "on point" and I have the least amount of repositioning to do when combat begins.

Hope that helps.

[TheBigBB]

What I do is I have my own buttons for the tank and I play the tank just like I was single-boxing it. I have the followers use the arrow keys to move, and I tap backwards whenever they need to stay back. You get used to adding in the DPS and healing more and more as you play, but just make sure you're not selling your tanking short, and make sure to get in the habit of leaving the others back a long ways.

[Hachoo]

Its always possible to do heroics if you outgear them enough but the easy way would be to use the paladin to tank instead of the warrior... Dont get me wrong, both can do it but its alot easier to make tank macro's with the paladin.

Post 3.0, I strongly disagree. Warrior tanking is easy now.

Paladin's still bring more to the group as far as synergy goes though.
Warrior tanking might be easier post 3.0 and also much more AoE capable but its still nowhere near as easy as a paladin. With a paladin you really only have to ever push 1 button to tank, and you don't really have to move at all. Warriors are nowhere near this easy, even post-3.0.

[Ellay]

I've been thinking about adding a tank to the mix, and 5 boxing just for the sheer fun of it. PvE is 100x more enjoyable and really getting into it with this expansion. I think it is highly due to the encounters being more intriguing and that tanking got a LOT easier.

The biggest bang for your buck is an Unholy DK because they add 13% damage to the group.
If you prefer a different tank, you can drop a Shaman and place a Boomkin which some have used with great success.

[Sam DeathWalker]

It has been my experience that you must pick classes based on their ability to do ONE thing great. You only get one key to mash basically when multiboxing. Tie the priest heal key to the mage nuke key and the warrior tank key (whatever they do besides attack). Write a single macro using the best ability you have and then spam the key.

/castrandom works well for this.

People who figure they can move from one keyboard to another and do multiple things with different classes are in for a hard time. Im not saying its impossible, espiacally with only 5, but you are going to run into some issues for sure.

[Vyndree]

As for the "learning curve" question....

I would say from easiest to hardest...
1) same class, same spec
2) similar roles (role = ranged DPS/melee DPS/tank/healer)
3) multiple roles

The more roles you add, the more you have to think about.

If you mix and match 5 different ranged DPS classes, in your head you're still thinking about DPSing. Nothing more. It's easier with the same specced classes because you don't have to worry about different cooldowns and cast times -- but still, you have one goal: dps.
If you add a healer, you now have to think not only about DPSing, but keeping people alive. (However, doing ezmode questing or outgearing an instance will be less work because you generally don't have to worry about anyone dying.)
Add a tank and no healer, same thing as above. Thinking about holding threat/damage mitigation and DPSing simultaneously.
Add both a tank and a healer to your DPS and you're now thinking about THREE things at once: keeping people alive, DPSing, and holding threat/mitigation


So, of course it's harder to do 3 roles than just 1. How hard? That depends on your personal skill level, motivation, and goals for the group. Normal instances? Pretty easy. Heroics? Hard. Raids? OMFG. (at the correct gear/level ofc)

[Ellay]

People who figure they can move from one keyboard to another and do multiple things with different classes are in for a hard time. Im not saying its impossible, espiacally with only 5, but you are going to run into some issues for sure. It is hard and there is a learning curve, but I play on 2 keyboards at the same time ever since I start dual-boxing :P

To note I did try in EQ2 a healer / tank / dps 3 boxing a longg time ago and my brain shut down at 10 minutes. Was not happy fun times.

[Turenn]

Seriously tanking with a warrior post 3.0 is just stupid easy.

Here's how you do it. Have a key for thunderclap and shockwave, and a /castrandom Shield Slam, Devastate, Revenge on the same key as your DPS macro on your slaves. Open with charge/bloodrage (if you are worried about forgetting to put the slave off follow just bind the charge/bloodrage key to move forward key on your slaves) to get rage, thunderclap, shockwave, and just start spamming your tanking/dps/heal buttons.

Post 3.0 I have not lost aggro once using this method, and it seems to me that thunderclap isn't ever resisted anymore.

[DgtlSorcrs]

It has been my experience that you must pick classes based on their ability to do ONE thing great. You only get one key to mash basically when multiboxing. Tie the priest heal key to the mage nuke key and the warrior tank key (whatever they do besides attack). Write a single macro using the best ability you have and then spam the key.

/castrandom works well for this.

People who figure they can move from one keyboard to another and do multiple things with different classes are in for a hard time. Im not saying its impossible, espiacally with only 5, but you are going to run into some issues for sure.

So true... I nearly fully play my pally tank, but for my Holy priest, and arcane mage, I just hit my 2 key for (/assist TANK /cast OPENER_ATTACK) and then spam the 1 key for (/cast LONGER_CAST DPS SPELL)

Effectively, my holy priest uses her massive +spell power to deliver pretty big hits on shadow word pain for an opener and /castrandom Holy Fire, Smite, Mind Blast for DPS while my mage does A Frostfire blast for opener followed by Arcane Missiles (with a /cast [channeling];Arcane Missiles so I can spam it without constantly interrupting my own missles)

Since my pally tank is well geared, I only occasionally need heals. For that, the holy priest it PERFECT... I have a macro for /target MY_TANK /cast Prayer of Mending

The PoM is so incredibly useful if my toons all start taking damage, and I can use that key even if the PoM is on CD to retarget my tank and then whack renew

Basically, PoM and Renew are almost all I ever need, and those can be whacked when needed and I can hit Pom, and renew, then back to smite/holy fire before the mage has even gone through one channel of arcane missiles


However, I totally agree about keeping it simple. My Mage has other very useful spells... I'm sure that blink and invis and blizzard and polymorph would be terribly useful if I were sologing. Likewise, when I run an instance with my priest healing, I never do any dps casting, but use all of my various heals as they are needed. My pally's the only one I pretty much play the same whether multiboxing, or soloing... except I need to "mute" my mage and priest as I tend to unconsciously reach for my PoM and Renew buttons even while my pally is MTing an instance.

[genocyde]

With my PvE group (druid tank, ret pally, disc priest, mage, hunter) i started out with every single button on my N52TE gamepad (all 3 states) bound to some combat action. I could use any ability on all 5 classes at any time and I headed to my first instance. This was a massive wipefest of wrong button presses, forgetting to do something, or poor action resulting in 15 min single trash pulls.

I immediately abandoned this bind everything method, despite hours of macro work, and started over with 3 buttons; 1 heal, 2dps, 3 tank. Things went very smoothly until my mage pulled a boss of the tank and i realized i had no taunt macro available and lost my mage and hunter before getting aggro back on tank and then 2 tooning the boss the last 20 some % while the ret pally sat off in the distance where the boss used to be. Slowly I have worked my way back up to the point where I am running out of buttons on my N52TE for my 5 classes which is a scary thought (I wish they'd make an N52 style pad for the right hand with a trackball style mouse ball instead of a d-pad).

If theres any wisdom I can impart from my experiences it is:
Start small; bind only 1 heal spam macro, 1 tank spam macro, 1 tank taunt/oh $#!+ button, and 1 dps spam macro. Bind them to 4 DIFFERENT buttons. The sooner you learn to separate the dps,heals,tanking the sooner you'll be able to do complicated fights like bosses with a total aggro dump. Aggro dumps area near guaranteed wipe if your dps is tied to your tank button and your not ready with taunt.

Positioning: a button thats bound to walk backwards on all ranged dps is very helpful for getting them out of harms way. I set my team up as follows
Button 1: A quick tap of this button as i get to where I want my raged dps to sit.
Druid tank: enrage
Ret pally: Favorite seal
Ranged DPS/healer: Walk backwards

Button 2: This button engages the boss and positions my ret pally.
Druid tank: Faerie fire
Ret pally: Judge/startattack
Hunter: fire misdirect on tank
Mage: cast Slow on boss (arcane mage)
Priest: Prayer of Mending tank

After a while I got so used to this style pull that I found myself chain pulling instances all the way to the boss and forgetting to even rest up before pulling the boss (bad Idea in heroics in WotLK so far)

Using this setup I have accumulated a good chunk of emblems so far in WotLK and until i met Jedoga Shadowcaster in heroic Ahn'Kehet I thought I would steamroll all heroics in WotLK. Good luck to anyone with a holy trinity group on this boss.

[Rin]

People who figure they can move from one keyboard to another and do multiple things with different classes are in for a hard time. Im not saying its impossible, espiacally with only 5, but you are going to run into some issues for sure.

I'm going to have to disagree with this, as I've recently converted my team over to an entirely mixed setup (1 Warrior, 1 Death Knight, 1 Paladin, 1 Priest, 2 Hunters, 2 Mages, 1 Shaman, 1 Druid), spanning across three (sometimes four) boxes. If you're serious about multiboxing, you've probably already read Xzin's great thread about the X-Keys, and/or you probably already know about the G15 keyboard (or similar device) offered by Logitech/other manufacturers. Multi-class boxing isn't very easy to learn, but it shouldn't be touted as overly difficult too. Vyndree said it best when she discussed breaking things down into roles; having specific characters that would do specific things.

For my setup, I run two distinct groups - Group A: Warrior, Death Knight, Hunter, Hunter, Priest; Group B: Shaman, Paladin, Mage, Mage, Druid
The priest is always on a standalone box, located to the left of my main guys; her keys are tied to random keystrokes that I can instantly access on my G15 keyboard. All of her main heals are covered by G1-G4 (Circle of Healing, Greater Heal, Renew, Lesser Heal). Usually, when running a Warrior + DK mix, the Priest can spam CoH without having any threat issues. By default, her heals are tied to whomever I select with my warrior that needs healing. If I'm really getting my ass handed to me, I can quickly swap the Priest's main cast line up with her secondary line, which lets her heal as if she were an independent player. This is handy in situations where threat management is an issue. Having her on her own box means that I can keep the mouse down by the heal area at all times... a simple left or right movement with the mouse that's tied to her = a heal. Its no more than a 1 second notion, and < 1 second if I realize that I'm going to be in trouble early.

While this is happening, my Warrior and Death Knight remain in the mix, throwing down blows; my hunter's and their pets also remain in the fight by doing their own thing. If I feel the healing may take more than 1 second, I can always line up a few shots (simply by going through keys 1-4 on my keyboard); and have them ready to go while I focus on the heals. There's nothing overly complicated to it.

On Group B, my Paladin is tanking (Avengers Shield + Consecration); while I can independently hit a separate key for the mage attacks (e.g. key 4 would fire off missles, and key 4 would fire off a lightning bolt), while the druid can hang out as an owl and provide her damage enhancements.

For positioning, I always hit the S key (sending my team back a few notches) before I engage mobs; breaking the follow and allowing for everyone to be out of range of the "tanking area", as I call it.

[Ellay]

n52 gamepad for all boxes besides main. Keyboard for main.
Left hand on n52. Right hand on numpad.
a simple shift to the right from this setup converts me to WASD and mouse control for the main character.

[Pikey]

n52 gamepad for all boxes besides main. Keyboard for main.
Left hand on n52. Right hand on numpad.
a simple shift to the right from this setup converts me to WASD and mouse control for the main character.Gladiator Keyboardturner... Hmmm has a nice ring to eet.

PS. Numnum

[TheBigBB]

Why are you only using one key? I'm (usually) not going to consecrate when there's only one mob, or waste mana and a cooldown on another Avenger's Shield when the mob is about to die and I could just go chain pull something else with the shield right after. There's nothing hard about having different key sets.

Sam, I don't know why you're even posting in advice threads here when you basically don't know or refuse to learn how the game works before you box it. From what I see, you're just going to write one macro based off something you read in the macro forum and then call it a day and spam mindlessly until the end of time.


It has been my experience that you must pick classes based on their ability to do ONE thing great. You only get one key to mash basically when multiboxing. Tie the priest heal key to the mage nuke key and the warrior tank key (whatever they do besides attack). Write a single macro using the best ability you have and then spam the key.

/castrandom works well for this.

People who figure they can move from one keyboard to another and do multiple things with different classes are in for a hard time. Im not saying its impossible, espiacally with only 5, but you are going to run into some issues for sure.

[Bigfish]

Well, in his defense, I would advocate the one-character-one-role mantra. I've run characters trying to simultaneously heal and DPS, or heal and tank, or tank and DPS, and invariably I came to the conclusion that it just doesn't work. In fact, I think we had a conversation about that in another thread.

Anywho.

I would have to say the "put your best ability on a button and spam it" notion isn't particularly ideal unless you only plan on spending your time killing boars in Elwynn. You really need to develop a good /castsequence that utilizes as many class abilities as you can, not to mention knowing when to bind keys to certain functions such as crowd control, Mana Regens, etc. I'm even starting to ponder creating diffent castsequences for non-elites, elite trash, and bosses, just because of the subtle differences in dealing with those enemies warrants entirely different methods of killing them.

[unseen]

Thanks for all the responses so far guys! Glad to see I'm not going crazy for realizing it's a lot tougher than I had thought.

I appreciate the tips on handling the different roles and some of the macro suggestions. I was trying to control all my dps and healing with keybinds and clicking all my abilities on my tank, but that was a bit much for me. I think I'll make room for a few warrior keybinds (thunderclap and shockwave at least) to ease up the need to click as much. I'll also have to set up a macro for kind of a generic dps rotation so I don't have to pay as much attention to that as I did previously.

[Vyndree]

I'd also disagree on the "spam button" idea...

Even with my prot paladin, I ended up being a "clicker" for seals/judgements and only really put "Holy Shield" on my spam button.

On my shammies, I have CTRL+1 through CTRL+6 set for defensive totems (water, earth, air, tremor, groundings, totemic recall, poison/disease). I also have SHIFT+2 through SHIFT+6 set to heals (quick emergency heals, healing wave, lesser healing wave, chain heal specific target, AoE heal - chain heal off "buddy", GotN). Lastly, I have 1-7 (plus SHIFT+1) for my DPS spells (lightning bolt, PvP damage shocks -- FS on rotation, PvE damage shocks/interrupt -- all ES, chain lightning, searing totem, magma totem, fire nova totem, flame shock -- mostly for stealthers, purge).

And that was just my leveling bindings, and doesn't count the bindings for buffs/mounting that I put on my xkeys.

Take a look at how I end up being a "tank clicker" here: http://www.gamevee.com/viewVideo/World_of_Warcraft/PC/ZulFarrak_Gauntlet_Multiboxing/309646


I loathe excessive use of castsequences or even castrandom. They're useful in certain places, but IMO the spirit of multiboxing IS the multi-tasking. The only real times I use /castsequence is something along the lines of:
/castsequence reset=12/target Curse of Agony, null
(prevents me from having to CoA twice -- not only a waste of mana, but CoA is backloaded -- in case one char was incapacitated or barely out-of-range and needed to recast)

/castrandom is completely unreliable for tanking anything that can get you crit or crushed. The only thing I /castrandom are my DPS trinkets.

Removing that level of control from your characters makes you less likely to be able to recover from new, unprecedented situations. When someone gets the jump on me in a way I haven't anticipated, I still have a high chance of success because I, too, can be dynamic about my spell choices and actions.

[Bigfish]

I loathe excessive use of castsequences or even castrandom. They're useful in certain places, but IMO the spirit of multiboxing IS the multi-tasking. The only real times I use /castsequence is something along the lines of:
/castsequence reset=12/target Curse of Agony, null

Removing that level of control from your characters makes you less likely to be able to recover from new, unprecedented situations. When someone gets the jump on me in a way I haven't anticipated, I still have a high chance of success because I, too, can be dynamic about my spell choices and actions.

I don't understand. Its not like you can't be dynamic while having a castsequence for the 90% of the times when your hitting the same abilities in the same order, particularly for those of us running multiple classes. Personally, I take a bit of pride in the fact that my characters run themselves pretty darn efficiently for pressing 2 over and over.

[Turenn]

In PvE the key is to make it as simple as possible. Too many buttons to tap while tanking, healing and DPSing is going to screw you up more than having a castseqence or castrandom marco doing most of the work. In PvE getting the boss down is the goal, nothing else.


"I loathe excessive use of castsequences or even castrandom. They're useful in certain places, but IMO the spirit of multiboxing IS the multi-tasking."

"Vyndree"

^^ PRICELESS!

[ss2]

With a paladin/shamans/moonkin I tank and dps with 3 keys(assist, follow, attacksequence) and the click of avenger's shield. I found adding a dedicated healer more complicated than tanking and dps'ing combined; it took up my entire numberpad and then some to use efficiantly.

[elsegundo]

i would only put holy shield and hammer of the righteous in a castrandom macro. the other spells are a bit too situational, even consecration, to add to that macro.

i have /startattack with hammer of wrath.
i have consecrate and avenger's shield on modifier. i find this really helpful if i see some passerby that i also want to add to the "being tanked" group. consecrate costs a lot of mana so i dont want to constantly spam it, even with awesome mana regen.
my judgments are based on modifiers as well as seals.
i think thats it. all my other pally abilities are clicked as they are not as time-sensitive as my battle abilities.

[Ualaa]

Until you have enough defense to be crit immune, that is a threat.
In Wrath, a mob has to exceed your level by 4 or more to land a crushing blow.
The highest mobs in the game are bosses which are considered 83rd - at 80th you'll never receive a Crushing Blow.

So far I have only one mixed group.
I've broken my dps down to Opening Moves and Spamming Moves.
My opening moves is a cast sequence, where the paladin does the first three moves (Seal, Avenger's Strike, Judge Wisdom).
Every other character passes on the first two keypresses and does a Dot type effect on the third.
If its a tougher opponent, this key is two more dot/debuff type effects for other toons but nothing for the pally.

My other dps key, is the spammable dps mash for other toons, and a basic cast random for the paladin.
My druid, who heals for this team will Faerie Fire on the initial debuff/dot button (and moonfire/insect swarm if I press it two more times).
The druid has a castsequence reset=combat !Wrath in the dps button, so she helps to kill trash but has no GCD's in the way of her heals.

Everyone has a set up that works for them, it just takes a while to learn it.
You'll learn yours.
Plus, you can borrow from what works for others, to tweak and improve your set up over time.

[Vyndree]

I don't understand. Its not like you can't be dynamic while having a castsequence for the 90% of the times when your hitting the same abilities in the same order, particularly for those of us running multiple classes.

I think you misunderstand my definition of "dynamic".

For example:
Let's say a person is running a moonkin.
Let's say they decide to do a common /castrandom Wrath, Starfire (or even castsequence)
Let's say they come upon a mob that is immune to Nature. Can they adapt? Perhaps, depending on if they get lucky with the /castrandom or if the mob doesn't hit too hard or how much they have to DPS to kill it...
Let's say they come upon a mob that is immune to Arcane. Can they adapt? Perhaps, depending on if they get lucky with the /castrandom or if the mob doesn't hit too hard or how much they have to DPS to kill it...
Let's say they come upon a mob that is magic-immune. Can they adapt? Did they bother to bind other abilities as simple as /startattack and/or catform and catform's various DPS buttons?

Exacerbate the problem, add a mage:
Does the mage need to sheep? Is the boomkin alt prepared not to accidentally break the sheep?
Does the mage need to interrupt/silence?
Does the mage need to frostnova?

Exacerbate the problem more, add a priest:
Can the priest heal a specific target at a moment's notice?
Can the priest use AoE fear?
Can the priest AoE heal without accidentally /castrandom or /castsequencing Holy Nova such that they don't break the mage's sheep?


Keep in mind -- people here are talking about having 1 button to end all buttons. I was a bit obscure having not specifically called that out as what I was addressing. I'm talking about a 1-button castsequence/castrandom spam, and added a little personal opinion about what sort of castsequences I use/don't use.

Having a /castsequence "i'm doing easysauce content that I outnumber/outgear/outlevel" to mash when fighting a brainlessly easy opponent is no problem (though I don't do so, personally). However, assuming that one button will fit all of your needs is a bit of a stretch -- interrupts, cc, not breaking cc, tanking, healing, totems, buffs... those all deserve adequate attention.

By "dynamic" I'm saying "I can adapt to whatever the world throws at me". Nature immune mob? Yea, I bound shocks that aren't in the nature school. Spellcaster mob? I've got an interrupt button. Groundings too. Fearbomb mob? I can tremor, and I've got trinkets bound. Mana running low? Manatide/watershield/manaspring baby!

That's dynamic.


/castsequence [nocombat] Healing Stream Totem, Wrath of Air totem, Tremor Totem, Searing Totem, Water Shield, Lightning Bolt, Lightning Bolt
/castrandom [combat] Lightning Bolt, Chain Lightning
THIS is not dynamic.

How can you interrupt?
How can you deal with nature immune mobs?
How can you deal with spells that need to be grounded?
How can you deal with not hitting CCed targets with your CL or Searing?

How do you do ANYTHING but that rotation?

The point is, saying that "You only need ONE button on a /castsequence" is oversimplification. It's more appropriately "You only need ONE spam button for leveling, since you outnumber almost every quest encounter anyway" or "You most likely will be pressing a spammable DPS button".

ONE button does not rule all. ONE button can be used more OFTEN than others, but it doesn't mean the others aren't useful or necessary.


Personally, I take a bit of pride in the fact that my characters run themselves pretty darn efficiently for pressing 2 over and over.

That's fine, it's why I used the phrase "IMO".

Efficiency is relative. Is a castsequence efficient in raids? Depends on the class and how well they fit into a rotation. Is efficiency your ability to react to PvP situations where the same thing almost never happens twice? Certainly. Is efficiency the ease at which you can power through quests and level because you have 5x the firepower designed for the encounter? Sure, but personally I still think you can do that without relying totally on /castsequences.

/castsequences are not efficient for DPS that cannot easily be put into a reliable sequence. They're also unreliable because "reset=12" does not mean "reset 12 seconds from the first time I pushed the button". It means "reset 12 seconds from the LAST time I pushed the button" -- and that means if I have 3 DoTs with different timers, it's not efficient DPS uptime. If I have 3 DoTs, pressed the button once, ran around for a little bit, and pressed the button once more, my timers will be "off" so that, if I wanted to skip DoT #3 and go straight back to refresh DoT #1, I can't.

That's what I meant by dynamic.

EDIT: This post gives some more good information about why castsequences are not ideal for maximizing DPS. For mixed groups it may be a necessary evil, but still applicable on a per-character basis.
http://dual-boxing.com/forums/index.php?page=Thread&postID=152932#post152932

Extra healing, moving around, changing targets, all make long castsequences that are cooldown based a pain. All mostly upsetting the cooldowns so much it's not worth it. The only reason castsequences seems good for is for when you get in that situation when you do still have thge cd's and need to totally nuke as much as possible, or a few fights where you do indeed not have to heal/move. Patchwerk in naxx for example. Or when testing dps. But with the vast amount of various tactics needed for pretty much all five man and the lack of hp on trash causes castsequences for us to be more of a pain then to be effective.

/castrandom is as close to effective as it will get, but even then you would stumble upon problems with changing targets, blowing flameshock cd's on low targets and lava bursts on flameshockless targets. The problems come with the AI needed to apply flameshock at the proper targets and the timing on the lava bursts.
(emphasis mine)

[Duese]

I will interject with a slightly different opinion. While it is neccessary to have the ability to adapt, the frequency of that need may be such that you can script it. For instance, using AHK, you could have a flag that says "Nature Immune Mob". When you turn that flag on (however you want to do it, most likely *yet another* key bind), then it will only cast the non-nature spells. However, the nice thing about this is that if something does come along that has some sort of immunity, you can turn the "flag" on, then still press your same DPS button that has been rerouted to a different keybind.

I am currently running a simple two tank setup for lvl'ing to 80, but have done up to and including 5 boxing. Pally tank is by far going to be the easiest and for the sole reason that even if you lose facing on a target mob, your consecrate will still keep the threat ticking without your weapon even swinging. Thunderclap, even though it's pushing 500-600 damage for my warrior to all the surrounding, still doesn't compare to the 1000+ total damage of a consecrate with the +90% threat gen of righteous fury. I'm not using exact numbers nor theorycrafting, just using my experience. Pally's have it such ezmode it's not even funny.

As far as my keybinds go, I sort of separate them out by AoE/Non and High Mp/Low Mp. I'm still working out my 5 box setup. I did the whole "keybind everything" and completely forgot where all my keys were when I needed them. I have a few ways I am going to try working around that though when I get back to them.

[Vyndree]

I will interject with a slightly different opinion. While it is neccessary to have the ability to adapt, the frequency of that need may be such that you can script it. For instance, using AHK, you could have a flag that says "Nature Immune Mob". When you turn that flag on (however you want to do it, most likely *yet another* key bind), then it will only cast the non-nature spells. However, the nice thing about this is that if something does come along that has some sort of immunity, you can turn the "flag" on, then still press your same DPS button that has been rerouted to a different keybind.

That's still TWO macros.

I think the argument that "one size fits all" still stands -- you can't just have one. Even if you use one button 90% of the time (which I said was fine -- it's just not my style but that's personal opinion), you STILL need those "backup buttons" for the last 10%. You can't shove everything into ONE macro.

Example:
You can use a "spam button" for 90% of your time if you're out in the world questing.
World PvP happens.
You can either have prepared for that 10% and send them packing, or you can sit there for an hour while they teabag you in a corpse camp because you weren't prepared and all you had was your spammable dps buttons.

True story. ;) Though it does require that you're PvP flagged/PvP server. ;)

[Bigfish]

For example:
Let's say a person is running a moonkin.
Let's say they decide to do a common /castrandom Wrath, Starfire (or even castsequence)
Let's say they come upon a mob that is immune to Nature. Can they adapt? Perhaps, depending on if they get lucky with the /castrandom or if the mob doesn't hit too hard or how much they have to DPS to kill it...
Let's say they come upon a mob that is immune to Arcane. Can they adapt? Perhaps, depending on if they get lucky with the /castrandom or if the mob doesn't hit too hard or how much they have to DPS to kill it...
Let's say they come upon a mob that is magic-immune. Can they adapt? Did they bother to bind other abilities as simple as /startattack and/or catform and catform's various DPS buttons?

Exacerbate the problem, add a mage:
Does the mage need to sheep? Is the boomkin alt prepared not to accidentally break the sheep?
Does the mage need to interrupt/silence?
Does the mage need to frostnova?

Exacerbate the problem more, add a priest:
Can the priest heal a specific target at a moment's notice?
Can the priest use AoE fear?
Can the priest AoE heal without accidentally /castrandom or /castsequencing Holy Nova such that they don't break the mage's sheep?


Keep in mind -- people here are talking about having 1 button to end all buttons. I was a bit obscure having not specifically called that out as what I was addressing. I'm talking about a 1-button castsequence/castrandom spam, and added a little personal opinion about what sort of castsequences I use/don't use.

Having a /castsequence "i'm doing easysauce content that I outnumber/outgear/outlevel" to mash when fighting a brainlessly easy opponent is no problem (though I don't do so, personally). However, assuming that one button will fit all of your needs is a bit of a stretch -- interrupts, cc, not breaking cc, tanking, healing, totems, buffs... those all deserve adequate attention.

By "dynamic" I'm saying "I can adapt to whatever the world throws at me". Nature immune mob? Yea, I bound shocks that aren't in the nature school. Spellcaster mob? I've got an interrupt button. Groundings too. Fearbomb mob? I can tremor, and I've got trinkets bound. Mana running low? Manatide/watershield/manaspring baby!

That's dynamic.


Ok, let me explain where I'm coming from. I run one of every class. Some are more spell intense than others, and the fact that I have one macro that I largely spam doesn't restrict me from keeping interupts, or CC (not that CC has EVER been important) or healing individual characters. Suffice it to say, if something needs done, I can do it at the push of a button. That said, I have two options with my key bindings: I can either bind most abilitites to an individual key, which works fine if everyone was the same class. Problem is, I have a tank, a healer, and 3 seperate dps who all potentially funtion much differently from each other. I could be looking at weaving shots with my hunter, putting up DoTs with a lock, and spamming spells on my mage. Alternatively, I could we chopping away with my rogue, warrior, and throw in a DoT class for fun. All said classes function fundamentally differently, which leaves me the choice of pressing a dozen different keys, or I can make them work a rotation for their general DPS purposes. Now, as much fun as wasting half my potential abilities sounds, I'd rather have an intelligent cast rotation working that maximizes dps and uses all applicable abilites.

Bottom line, I'm not controling a bunch of clones whose sole purpose is to kill things through shear force of numbers. I want each character to be played smart and to their potential. Any castsequence I use on my characters is one I gladly use in an individual capacity, because there is no point in trying to manage all your DoTs and cool downs by hand when you can do it with a macro that isn't going to forget to push a button or lose track of how many seconds its been since you applied X debuff.

Specific instances of elemental immune mobs rarely come up nowadays, and yes, they can be dealt with rather easily by a quick switch of a button.



ONE button does not rule all. ONE button can be used more OFTEN than others, but it doesn't mean the others aren't useful or necessary.

Well then we agree. One button doesn't rule all, but its certainly easier to have a mage that casts intelligently as opposed to spamming Fireball. Makes more sense to me have my mage put up her scorches, spam fireballs and fireblasts, and then unleash a Pyroblast with a high statistical potential to be instant cast instead of trying to manage her and 9 other classes' abilities individually. Makes more sense for my Warlock to keep her dots up in an intelligent manner than trying to eyeball 3 lines of debuffs and micro manage that things. Makes more sense for my warrior to dump her rage than to sit on it at 100 because I was too busy managing everyone else to hit her buttons. And all with one button instead of 4 or 5.

In a situation where you've got upwards of 10 classes, that's a LOT of stimuli and responses that need managed, and the only differences I see in doing it manually versus macroed is difficulty and some sort of idealistic dislike for castsequence and castrandom.


Efficiency is relative. Is a castsequence efficient in raids? Depends on the class and how well they fit into a rotation. Is efficiency your ability to react to PvP situations where the same thing almost never happens twice? Certainly. Is efficiency the ease at which you can power through quests and level because you have 5x the firepower designed for the encounter? Sure, but personally I still think you can do that without relying totally on /castsequences.

/castsequences are not efficient for DPS that cannot easily be put into a reliable sequence. They're also unreliable because "reset=12" does not mean "reset 12 seconds from the first time I pushed the button". It means "reset 12 seconds from the LAST time I pushed the button" -- and that means if I have 3 DoTs with different timers, it's not efficient DPS uptime. If I have 3 DoTs, pressed the button once, ran around for a little bit, and pressed the button once more, my timers will be "off" so that, if I wanted to skip DoT #3 and go straight back to refresh DoT #1, I can't.

That's what I meant by dynamic.

Situational efficiency does indeead change, and is a scenario entirely suited to the player at hand. I don't PvP much, so I don't consider it too much when I write my macros. If I ever do get back in to PvP, I'll invariably have to adjust things, but a castsequence/random will still be my primary form of ability utilization. Now I don't know what impression you are operating under, but when you ask "Well what if you want to do this?" my reponse will usually be "Well why would I want to?" The macros I write aren't simply a matter of being too lazy to press a few extra buttons, its a matter of carefully calculated spell rotations that extend anywhere from 30 to 60 seconds. If something happens that delays the macro, its not a big deal since I could, theoretically, start the macro at any point during the sequence and in a matter of seconds be operating at on or near the same level as though the macro had started over. (Granted, the one exception to this I've come across is conflagrate)

At this point, every class can operate on an efficient /castsequence if you know what rotation you should be using. The only classes I DON'T have one set up on are my Paladin and Warrior, and thats only because I've found /castrandom to be more effective for them.

Checking the link now.

Edit: Checked the link. I'm not convinced. For elemental shamans? Probably. But then, elemental shamans have relatively few spells and are a natural disadvantage with getting Lava Burst to fire off at just the right moment, much like the problem I encountered with Conflagrate on my Warlock. When you have spells that are excessively timing based, a delay by any number of seconds can and will throw off your DPS. But that's a matter of a spell rotation I haven't even looked at or leveled in to. Will a cast sequence ever be as efficient as a single boxer driving the character? No, but the objective isn't to perfectly immitate, it is to achieve a reasonable facsimile and get as close as possible with a minimal amount of attention put in to it. At this point, my castsequences out perform actual pleyers. Not the best of them, but the type you find in PuGs, and honestly that's good enough for me.

[Sam DeathWalker]

Im not saying its impossible. I control my pal as good as a single person (well if I bothered to get more talents and spells, I mean I could control the tank as good as single player, like I do with my warrior in EQ). But if you are going to be on your main 100 percent of the time, then the support toons need to keep it simple.

Also I guess with only 5 its a lot easyer to get more out of each toon. Of course you will not come near to max dps with /castrandom, but you should do 75percent of max. If you can do 100 percent with your leader adn 75 percent with the rest seems to me you are doing well. No one will get 100 percent out of all 5. And all the extra work you need to do and extra concentration to get from the easty 75 percent of max dps/heal whatever to the 85 percent or whatever you do with tons of key bindings and macros, well seems a lot of effort for minimal return. On the other hand I am very familar with wanting to get the absolute max from your toons (who dons't compare gear and take the one that is .06 percent better lol), and really why not be the best you can be.

Well we do play different games kinda, I just press a button and the mob is dead, 25 earth shocks and its over. I even have fire nova totems now but where I am at there are to many casters/ranged mobs to really test it out. And I have a main button and a "emergeny heal" and a "drop dem totems" button but ....

Also I am not saying you use the same big button from level 1 to 80 for every encounter. You settle into your camp, figure out what you need and write your single spam macro accordingly to maximize efficeny for that particular camp or even particular encouter.

[Hachoo]

Seeing some of these responses about paladins and consecrate, judgements, etc, makes me think that DK tanking as a multiboxer is even easier than a Paladin.

Anyway, having castsequence and/or castrandom macros does NOT mean you can't also have individual ability bindings for when you need to be dynamic!

I personally use a single button spam for instances - it basically runs through a tanking castsequence/castrandom on my DK and randomizes LB/CL/Purge on my shamans - this covers 99% of battles in PvE and I'm very very happy with it.

However, these macros are in ADDITION to the macros I already used prior to developing them. My other macros allow me to manually do anything- Purge on a round robin, earth shock on round robin, cast LB when I want, CL when I want, use various DK abilities like death coil, unholy blight, anti magic shield/zone, etc...

Once I had been running instances for awhile and realized I was constantly rotating between macros to be "optimal" (ie: switching between LB and CL, throwing in purges, etc), I realized it would be a lot less stressful and easier to make special castsequences/castrandom macros for standard tank and spank PvE fights. It has made my life easier and made instances faster/more fun since I have done that. DK is the ultimate for a castsequence/castrandom IMO:

#showtooltip
/castrandom Unholy Blight,Rune Strike
/castsequence reset=target Icy Touch,Plague Strike,Pestilence,Death Strike,Blood Strike(,Scourge Strike)

Basically will use unholy blight or rune strike if one of them is up, and then cycles through a castsequence. Other than dropping a death and decay at the beginning for larger pulls, I hardly ever have to use another key on my DK unless I really want/need to.

[Sam DeathWalker]

Ya really you can do a LOT with a properly written macro, like the one above.

[Vyndree]

Anyway, having castsequence and/or castrandom macros does NOT mean you can't also have individual ability bindings for when you need to be dynamic!

Quoting this because it seems to be the summary of what everyone seems to be arguing with me about. The thing is, our arguments DO NOT CONFLICT.

I'm saying "You can't just have one, and ONLY one button to spam 100% of the time."

You are saying "But I have a button I spam 90% of the time!"


That's cool -- I don't have that sort of button setup but that is my PERSONAL macro preferences. 90% still does not equal 100%. So stop arguing as if I insulted you somehow by telling you you're wrong -- I didn't. You have other buttons than your spam button, don't you? Doesn't matter if you use them reliably or not -- my argument doesn't apply to you.

What I'm saying is -- you still took the time to think about and develop buttons for alternate situations (for example, CC/Interrupts/Healing/whatever). This was a priority for you, right? You can't just take one button and say "My team is done! Commence pewpew!" or you'll quickly learn the hard way that one size does not fit all.

So, just to clarify -- I'm not arguing with you. Your personal macro style doesn't sync with mine -- I like to micromanage, so I don't use castsequences/castrandoms. But my argument wasn't against castsequences/castrandoms (that little note was simply my personal macro preferences) -- my argument was about using ONE and ONLY one button to run your entire team.

And, for the record -- when I'm playing my shaman, 90% of the time I was hitting "Lightning Bolt". So I'm not arguing that spammable buttons are bad -- I've used them myself. But you still have to think "outside the box" about what might happen to your team (whether you're focused on PvP, raiding, heroics, questing) and tailor OTHER macros to those needs. Without that sort of thought, I feel you're dooming yourself to failure (or at least a very painful time when those situations do occur). For me, I care that I'm on a PvP server (and need anti-gank situational buttons), I do instances (and need heals/tanking buttons), and raids (for which I was constantly rewriting my macros per individual boss encounter).

I probably wouldn't have been able to do my instances while leveling if I had just my main "spam button". I probably would've been camped for ages if I hadn't bound grounding/interrupts/tremors and other anti-pvp server gankage buttons. I most certainly would NEVER have survived Karazhan without specific boss encounter buttons.

You see what I'm trying to say now? It's not that /castsequences are bad, it's that the idea that "to multibox effectively you have to put all your eggs in one basket" is just not feasable. You WILL run into special cases where you need special macros, and you DO need to think about those -- ESPECIALLY when you're trying to create a new group composition (which is exactly what the OP is trying to do). So, I say, telling a person that the effective way to multibox is to fit everything into one macro is completely ridiculous.




About /castrandom for Paladins specifically (and please note, I'm back on the "personal opinion" horse) -- I don't use it, because I want to be 100% sure I am keeping holy shield up because, at the time that I designed my macros, it was ESSENTIAL to preventing a crushing blow. For leveling? Heroics? Non-crushing bosses? Doesn't matter as much. But I still want to be able to control and maximize my pally's mitigation, threat management, and yes -- mana (mana was a bit of an issue for me, particularly multiboxing Karazhan pre-3.0).

[Hachoo]

Anyway, having castsequence and/or castrandom macros does NOT mean you can't also have individual ability bindings for when you need to be dynamic!

Quoting this because it seems to be the summary of what everyone seems to be arguing with me about. The thing is, our arguments DO NOT CONFLICT.

I'm saying "You can't just have one, and ONLY one button to spam 100% of the time."

You are saying "But I have a button I spam 90% of the time!"


That's cool -- I don't have that sort of button setup but that is my PERSONAL macro preferences. 90% still does not equal 100%. So stop arguing as if I insulted you somehow by telling you you're wrong -- I didn't. You have other buttons than your spam button, don't you? Doesn't matter if you use them reliably or not -- my argument doesn't apply to you.

What I'm saying is -- you still took the time to think about and develop buttons for alternate situations (for example, CC/Interrupts/Healing/whatever). This was a priority for you, right? You can't just take one button and say "My team is done! Commence pewpew!" or you'll quickly learn the hard way that one size does not fit all.

So, just to clarify -- I'm not arguing with you. Your personal macro style doesn't sync with mine -- I like to micromanage, so I don't use castsequences/castrandoms. But my argument wasn't against castsequences/castrandoms (that little note was simply my personal macro preferences) -- my argument was about using ONE and ONLY one button to run your entire team.

And, for the record -- when I'm playing my shaman, 90% of the time I was hitting "Lightning Bolt". So I'm not arguing that spammable buttons are bad -- I've used them myself. But you still have to think "outside the box" about what might happen to your team (whether you're focused on PvP, raiding, heroics, questing) and tailor OTHER macros to those needs. Without that sort of thought, I feel you're dooming yourself to failure (or at least a very painful time when those situations do occur). For me, I care that I'm on a PvP server (and need anti-gank situational buttons), I do instances (and need heals/tanking buttons), and raids (for which I was constantly rewriting my macros per individual boss encounter).

I probably wouldn't have been able to do my instances while leveling if I had just my main "spam button". I probably would've been camped for ages if I hadn't bound grounding/interrupts/tremors and other anti-pvp server gankage buttons. I most certainly would NEVER have survived Karazhan without specific boss encounter buttons.

You see what I'm trying to say now? It's not that /castsequences are bad, it's that the idea that "to multibox effectively you have to put all your eggs in one basket" is just not feasable. You WILL run into special cases where you need special macros, and you DO need to think about those -- ESPECIALLY when you're trying to create a new group composition (which is exactly what the OP is trying to do). So, I say, telling a person that the effective way to multibox is to fit everything into one macro is completely ridiculous.




About /castrandom for Paladins specifically (and please note, I'm back on the "personal opinion" horse) -- I don't use it, because I want to be 100% sure I am keeping holy shield up because, at the time that I designed my macros, it was ESSENTIAL to preventing a crushing blow. For leveling? Heroics? Non-crushing bosses? Doesn't matter as much. But I still want to be able to control and maximize my pally's mitigation, threat management, and yes -- mana (mana was a bit of an issue for me, particularly multiboxing Karazhan pre-3.0).You argue with me as if I was talking directly to you and as if you had previously responded to something I had said - neither of which is true.

[Rin]

Thread Summary

Having 1 Button for All Actions and All Scenarios = Unfeasible.

Micromanaging Characters = Great if you can do it, but it requires a lot more focused attention. It seems as if there are only a few of us who like this playstyle (*points to himself*, Vyndree, TheBigBB), and most of us who play this way are boxing a minimum of 5 characters. Probably a coincidence.

Cast Sequences/Cast Random = Appropriate for certain situations, although the people who like to Micromanage (see above) probably don't use cast sequences

Benefits of "1 Button" Playing
- Easy to learn
- Easy to accomplish most PvE goals (outside of Heroics and raids, I'd imagine)
- Works very well with classes that have synergy, and works OK with classes that do not.

Benefits of Micromanaging
- Highly customizable; can adapt to any situation (PvP, PvE, etc.)
- Easy to use ONCE you get adjusted to micromanaging (read: easy to use once you memorize where your macros are)
- Works with all classes/synergies
- Higher learning curve before you feel "relaxed"/comtorable with your individual macros for things

... And I'll leave the cons for someone else to finish up.

Keep in mind, we're all really saying the same things though, some of us just play differently. You have to pick a style that works with you.

Please note * 1 Button playing = 1 button to do most of your work

[Vyndree]

Anyway, having castsequence and/or castrandom macros does NOT mean you can't also have individual ability bindings for when you need to be dynamic!
Quoting this because it seems to be the summary of what everyone seems to be arguing with me about. The thing is, our arguments DO NOT CONFLICT.
You argue with me as if I was talking directly to you and as if you had previously responded to something I had said - neither of which is true.

For emphasis.



(*points to himself*, Vyndree, TheBigBB), and most of us who play this way are boxing a minimum of 5 characters. Probably a coincidence.
This is exactly why I favor pet classes. ;) Makes me feel like I'm 9-boxing. ;) I also favor hybrids because I can respec them to different roles and theorycraft my little heart out.

I don't 10-box because I don't feel there are enough outlets for me to use it. 10-man (or even 25) raids I can do with the archi 'boxers, PvP battlegrounds eventually get boring... I dunno. I 5-box b/c it gives me the most options.


- Easy to accomplish most PvE goals (outside of Heroics and raids, I'd imagine)
Add PvP. I have more PvP-specific bindings honestly than anything else, and it's mostly there for anti-gankage.
Examples: CoEx. Interrupts. Tremor rotations. Fear rotations. Purges (don't use often in PvE)/dispells. Etc


- Works very well with classes that have synergy, and works OK with classes that do not.
I'd ACTUALLY swap this around... I (personally) think the "1 button to rule them all" sort of thing works BEST for mixed groups BECAUSE they're hard to micromanage. If you castsequence them in a decent or close-to perfect rotation, you can get more out of spamming one button repeatedly compared to say... putting different cast times on the same buttons and not starting up the next cast until the person with the longest cast is finished.

Hopefully that made sense. O.o


- Easy to use ONCE you get adjusted to micromanaging (read: easy to use once you memorize where your macros are)

Doesn't a solo player have to memorize where their button layout is? (Caveat: clickers. Nothing wrong with clickers, they just have a higher learning curve).

Learning keybindings isn't limited to multiboxers. Depending on your setup, you can have more/less keybindings solo vs multiboxed. Depends on the person.


- Higher learning curve before you feel "relaxed"/comtorable with your individual macros for things

Isn't this the same as above?

[TheBigBB]

Vyndree, I always agree with you. :thumbup:

[xum]

My setup is as follows:

Prot Pally, FFire Mage or 0/41/30 lock, BM Hunter, Ele Shaman, Resto Druid

Easiest way to add a tank, like aforementioned is setting the tank to your main. Then, invest in a decent mouse, as Keyclone wont send mouse buttons to your slaves (I believe that there are certain software driven mice that can support global mouse).

With the four buttons I have on my mouse (exluding scroll and left/right click), I have a total of 16 combonations to use at my arsenal. More than enough for ANY tank -- I devote one button on my pally for buffs. Another button is for salv/bubble other/bubble self/hand of freedom, one for melee range tanking (and also HS), and one for pulling/HoW(decurse -- very nice if my healer gets CC'd). I find it easy enough to click on party member's unit frames for any buffs needed. **EDIT** Last but not least, and I did forget it, mouse wheel press = pally stun

For my DPS classes, 1-5 is my DPS, 6 is my CC macro, ~ is trinket macro, then 7,8,9,0 I use for my healing of party members, and finally -, = used for healing of healer.

All combonations use very intelligent overlay with / without the use of modifier keys

....ie 1 & 5 are LB on shaman, while 1 is Steady Shot on Hunter, while mod+1 is hunters mark, 5 is initimadtion, CTRL+5 is TBW and Shift+5 is Mend pet, 1 is incinerate/ffb and shift+1 is immolate.
Big note:: Since the cast times dont always line up, I use redundancy (and a bunch of practice on the dummies) to figure out what works best for me... Your results will vary. This means button mashing to some extent but also utilizing the other buttons (3/4) to hone in on cast rotees.

The best way that I've learned to do this is to start small, as adviced. However I recommend fully implementing the array of skills you will need on your character, but minimizing the keys via modifiers (ala 20 different attacks through using shift/ctrl/alt/nomod for keys 1-5). Then once you have mastered the controls of the first character, add in your healer. After your healer, add in your DPS, then your last DPS. The tank is VERY easy to control and allows you to multi-task with greatest efficiency without the learning curve of a N52 (which I'm still working on, and am unsure if I will further pursue).

[xum]

Also I'd like to further I utilize the following buttons:

E,F,G,Z,Q

Z = warlock's lifetap | mage's poly, mod for evoc | hex
Q = follow, shift+Q = mount
F = focus (mod keys used to micro-focus)
G = mage nova (mage was main from way back... kinda stuck)
E = assist main (mod+E = assist healer)

[genocyde]

Only one thing has been said in this thread that I disagree with. I don't remember how it was worded but it was along the lines of a /castsequence or /castrandom isn't as productive or efficient as being able to individually use abilites and to that I offer two inputs.
1. I have seen several players, usually dps, who are not up to par with my weakest castsequence macro as far as their output goes.
2. A macro that eliminated a hunter clipping his autoshot at 70 was almost a requirement for hunter dps. I had my hunters castsequence macro down so well it was within 5% of my capable solo play output. Now 5% output is easily lost through slow reaction, bad button presses, or several other things that actually made my macro more consistent at it's job than an individual could average.

Everything else I agree with as, despite my favorite hunter macro, I had every other ability bound at all times and was familiar with them. It is impossible to macro things as dynamic as feigning death on an aggro pull which is guaranteed to drop your output by 100% as you become a pile of player when a raid boss hits you.

My best story that agrees with dynamic being > castsequence:
I saved a raid wipe once with my pally tank on Maiden in karazhan when all of our healers failed at their job and got incapacitated probably due to blessing of sacrifice dropping off me. As I reached 5% health knowing I was ultimately going to die without question, cause all the healers were screaming bad news over vent like "someone pick up tank healing" and "I can't I'm stunned", I popped my bubble losing all threat on the boss and then taunted the boss back onto me having a few valuable seconds of guaranteed aggro on the boss while being completely immune to damage. The healers found their way out of the problem and brought me back up to 100% health and on we rolled to epic kara loot (back when that meant something).

I might mention, I had a little preexisting experience with this situation as I was dual boxing tank/healer and this was a very common move i used to save myself in 5 mans when I couldn't multi task well enough to get my healer out of a cc or such.

[elsegundo]

as Keyclone wont send mouse buttons to your slaves

You'll have to map your Mouse button to a key on the keyboard. then assign a hotkey for that keypress to a slot on your actionbar.

say for instnace your logitech mouse has two extra buttons and you want one of them to be "K". use your logitech program to set up your mouse button 3 to K. now every time you hit the mousebutton #3, you are actually hitting k. last step, keybind an action button on wow to K. drag a macro over it and you're done. yes... you'll need the third party software but they usually come with the mouse anyway.

ps. i used to live in olympia. lovely place.