Is 2 man slower lvling than 3,4, or 5 man?

[uberhoser]

I am a sad panda. I am dual boxing a ret pally (main t6 gear) and a elemental shammy. And right now it seems that it is slow going. True, I have finished BT and almost done HF (For the rep needed for mah CHOPPA), but I am about ready to tear my eyeballs out. A prot warrior is ahead of me for goodness sake :P. I thought you were supposed to get a bonus of some sort if you were in a party? ?(

[mmcookies]

you receive no party xp bonus with just 2 ppl

and obviously you have lower dps and don't kill as fast

[OogaJiggaWooga]

But you can take advantage of collection quests more easily :P

[Sam DeathWalker]

5 toons generate mana at 5X the rate of one toon. There is no reason they will not kill 5X as many mobs as one IF you have unlimited mobs.

Same applies to 2 vs. 5 or 3 vs. 5 etc.

And the group bonus kicks in. So ASSUMING unlimited mobs you go 5 or 10 or 15 for max efficency.

Also, judging from prepared fast leveling of 40 plus toons the simple fact that if you quest more toons dosnt seem to slow you down a whole lot ...

[Moorea]

5 toons generate mana at 5X the rate of one toon. There is no reason they will not kill 5X as many mobs as one IF you have unlimited mobs.

Same applies to 2 vs. 5 or 3 vs. 5 etc.

And the group bonus kicks in. So ASSUMING unlimited mobs you go 5 or 10 or 15 for max efficency.

Also, judging from prepared fast leveling of 40 plus toons the simple fact that if you quest more toons dosnt seem to slow you down a whole lot ...

Have you hit level 30 yet ? not sure you're qualified to comment...

[TeK23]

Questing with 2 toons is faster then 5 for resource quests.

But 5 toons can do higher level quests and so you can fight higher level mobs vs. 2 toons. The main thing is just quest out a zone and continue to move on, don't focus on resource quests unless they have a really high drop rate. You can waste more time doing resource quests then just grinding.

But if you are say doing instance farming with a high level toon. Then it doesn't matter. ;)

[uberhoser]

Nope, just doing all the faction ones I need to get exhalted for http://www.wowhead.com/?item=44503#comments

"This Schematic as of now looks like it requires exalted with alliance vangaurd for an engineer to learn it.

alliance vanguard has 4 different factions related to it.
- explorers league
- the frostborn
- the silver covenant
- valiance expedition

so to get exalted is it exalted with all 4 factions? or do each of them contribute their individual rep + alliance vanguard?

according to wowhead. the only 2 out of the 4 branches of this faction have quests to do. valiance has 198, and explorers league has 22.. all quests totaled give 41535 rep or 37655 for valiance and 3880 rep for explorers league..
if my math is right it takes 42000 rep to get from neutral to exalted...

i hope they add more quests or dailies at lvl 80 so getting exalted isnt so tough

"

[Sam DeathWalker]

Have you hit level 30 yet ? not sure you're qualified to comment...

http://eqplayers.station.sony.com/guild_profile.vm?guildId=631360193720

I'd say its clear Iv spent more time killing mobs then any MMO player in history.

Not to mention those are my mains, I have like 5 or 6 level 60 or so besides thouse. And my 26 X level 20 in WoW.

Not to mention leveling in EQ is way way way harder then in WoW, espically on a pvp server.

Oh and was there actually anything incorrect about my statement that 5 is better then two? Given you generate 5/2's the mana with 5 as you do with 2, which allows you to kill 5/2's the mobs with 5 as you do with 2, in the same time span, thus given the group exp bonus with 5 is greater then with two you should, assumming unlimited mobs, level faster with 5. Quests I don't know about much admittadly but seems if its a "go from point A to point B" type quest that it can be done with 5 just as fast as with 2 .... given autofollow.

Group Exp bonus with 5 is 1.4 vs. 1.0 with 2. Its silly to assume you will not level faster with 5, given each kill gives you 140pecent the exp you would get with 2.

[mikekim]

my toons will gernerate mana at the same rate wheter playing solo or in a group of five - so I dont know how you work that statement out. (the MP5 doesn't change according to the number of party members)

the only difference being that a group of 5 will kill mobs using less mana than the same kill if done solo.

mmcookies has the answer in his first post - 2 toons better xp, but slower kill due to lower dps. as for faster, it depends if you are questing or grinding. because most of the multiboxers here have used RAF, and at later levels Questing with triple XPis a better gain than pure grinding (4-5 man teams - mob kill xp is quite low, but your main source of XP would be from quest turn ins)

[Frosty]

5 toons generate mana at 5X the rate of one toon. There is no reason they will not kill 5X as many mobs as one IF you have unlimited mobs.

Same applies to 2 vs. 5 or 3 vs. 5 etc.

And the group bonus kicks in. So ASSUMING unlimited mobs you go 5 or 10 or 15 for max efficency.

Also, judging from prepared fast leveling of 40 plus toons the simple fact that if you quest more toons dosnt seem to slow you down a whole lot ...
This is also "assuming" you are playing with 5 mana based classes. And from the looks of your generating mana at 5X the rate, I'd say you are "assuming" those 5 classes are all Shaman with mana spring totems.


I'd say its clear Iv spent more time killing mobs then any MMO player in history.

Not to mention those are my mains, I have like 5 or 6 level 60 or so besides thouse. And my 26 X level 20 in WoW.

1, 2, 3 ALL EYES ON ME!!-much? It's great that you have done this, but please don't belittle or talk down to the rest of us because we choose to only use 2-5 accounts.


Not to mention leveling in EQ is way way way harder then in WoW, espically on a pvp server.
WoW != EQ so I don't see how this is relevant?


Oh and was there actually anything incorrect about my statement that 5 is better then two? Given you generate 5/2's the mana with 5 as you do with 2, which allows you to kill 5/2's the mobs with 5 as you do with 2, in the same time span, thus given the group exp bonus with 5 is greater then with two you should, assumming unlimited mobs, level faster with 5. Quests I don't know about much admittadly but seems if its a "go from point A to point B" type quest that it can be done with 5 just as fast as with 2 .... given autofollow.

Group Exp bonus with 5 is 1.4 vs. 1.0 with 2. Its silly to assume you will not level faster with 5, given each kill gives you 140pecent the exp you would get with 2.
Nothing you said is incorrect if we "assume" your assumptions are right. ;)

[Drizzit]

Oh and was there actually anything incorrect about my statement that 5 is better then two? Given you generate 5/2's the mana with 5 as you do with 2, which allows you to kill 5/2's the mobs with 5 as you do with 2, in the same time span, thus given the group exp bonus with 5 is greater then with two you should, assumming unlimited mobs, level faster with 5. Quests I don't know about much admittadly but seems if its a "go from point A to point B" type quest that it can be done with 5 just as fast as with 2 .... given autofollow.

Group Exp bonus with 5 is 1.4 vs. 1.0 with 2. Its silly to assume you will not level faster with 5, given each kill gives you 140pecent the exp you would get with 2. I really don't know how mana regenerate = dps. The more +spell you have the faster you can kill mobs. My +spell on my sham are on average 950 and the mana regenerate is about 50, and i can 1/2 shot anything. All mana does is that you have less down time, not that you can kill the mob faster.

Leveling 1 person is the fastest we all know that. Leveling 2 is probably a little faster then lvl 3 (cause of group xp). etc...

Group xp kicks in when you have 3 or more people in your group. Having more then 5 people in your group, and you are not in a raid instance, then you get negative group xp for being in a raid. I don't know the percentage of group xp but i will take your word that it is 1.4 times the mob xp. The reason why blizzard reduces xp in groups is because if they didn't people would group up and just farm a whole area being close enough so everyone gets the xp per kill. The reason they added the group xp is because the xp would be so low that grouping with more then 2 people will kill the xp.

Lets say mob xxx gives a person 1,000 xp
1 player = 1,000 xp
2 players = 500 xp each
3 players = 467 xp each (you get a total of 1,400 xp for group)
4 players = 350 xp each (you get a total of 1,400 xp for group)
5 players = 280 xp each (you get a total of 1,400 xp for group)
Anything more then 5 players you get like 10 xp cause of the stupid negative raid bonus

So the more people you have in your group the less xp you get... Sam you would have known this if you didn't start right out boxing.

[Sam DeathWalker]

I was responding to Moorea saying I am not qualified to answer the question .....

To get back to the point without wasting my valuable time defending off topic personal attacks:

Spells (ya I am considering shaman) do damage, spells need mana. Lets say you regen 1 mana per minute and do 1 damage per mana and get 1 exp per damage (to make it very simple).

1 Toon: 1 exp per minute = 1
2 Toon: 1/2 2 exp per mintue = 1 again
3 Toon: 1/3 3 exp per minute (plus group bonus) = 1 plus
4 Toon: 1/4 4 exp per minute (plus more group bonus) = 1 plus
5 Toon: 1/5 5 exp per mintue (plus the most group bonus of 1.4) = 1.4!!!!!!!

The amount of exp (given unlimited mobs) you get is directly proportional to the amount of mana you generate. So given unlimited mobs, and classes that do all their dps with mana then 5 will level 1.4 times faster then 2, assuming they are grouped together.

And this is a multibox forum not a wow only forum. But the theory of mana regen = exp is common to both games. Also mellee classes have unlimited mana basically as their dps is not limited to mana so they also level 1.4 times as fast in a 5 man group as a 1 person solo, assuming unlimited mobs and perfect placement for max dps each battle.

Ya over 5 forget it, untill you get to 10. So optimal numbers are 5, 10, 15, 20 etc.

Of course this is pure theory, you don't have unlimited mobs at your feet in practice, but still 1.4 times as fast is a LOT faster.

[Drizzit]

1 Toon: 1 exp per minute = 1
2 Toon: 1/2 2 exp per mintue = 1 again
3 Toon: 1/3 3 exp per minute (plus group bonus) = 1 plus
4 Toon: 1/4 4 exp per minute (plus more group bonus) = 1 plus
5 Toon: 1/5 5 exp per mintue (plus the most group bonus of 1.4) = 1.4!!!!!!!

The amount of exp (given unlimited mobs) you get is directly proportional to the amount of mana you generate. So given unlimited mobs, and classes that do all their dps with mana then 5 will level 1.4 times faster then 2, assuming they are grouped together.From wowwiki which i think is an accurate spot

The following is after very limited testing. The formulae here are best guess.
Assuming everyone in the group is the same level
XP = MXP/numberOfMembers * modifier.

Modifiers:
1 person group = 1.0
2 person group = 1.0
3 person group = 1.166
4 person group = 1.3
5 person group = 1.4

Example:
1 person = 100xp
2 people = 50xp each.
3 people = ~39xp each.
4 people = ~33xp each.
5 people = ~28xp each.

So how is 28 > 100???


Edit:
I am not attacking you... I just don't see how you are saying lvling 5 tons is faster then lvl 1 toon.

[Sam DeathWalker]

Because with 5 people you can kill FIVE mobs in the time it takes one person to kill ONE mob.

Because you regen 5 X the mana.

You are not considering that you are able to kill 5 times the mobs in the same time period, BECAUSE you regen 5 X the mana.

[mmcookies]

i seriously hope no 5-boxer's killing one mob at a time...

[TheBigBB]

Sam, saving mana is a big deal for having a large group. You do save mana. It's NOT a linear progression, though. If it takes 6 lightning bolts to kill a mob you may have times where you shot out 2 sets of 5 LBs before the mob died, thereby wasting 4 LBs. In this case, you'd only save 3x the mana, not 5x. There also comes a point where you can almost chain pull without going out of mana in some cases, especially if you spec for the mana saving talents and keep a mana tide nearby. This applies also to a single boxer. The strength of a 5 man group over 2 is probably more in pure killing speed due to raw damage output than to mana issues.

[Frosty]

And this is a multibox forum not a wow only forum. But the theory of mana regen = exp is common to both games. Also mellee classes have unlimited mana basically as their dps is not limited to mana so they also level 1.4 times as fast in a 5 man group as a 1 person solo, assuming unlimited mobs and perfect placement for max dps each battle.
I agree this is not just a wow only forum. But the original post was specifically asking:


I am dual boxing a ret pally (main t6 gear) and a elemental shammy.
I played EQ, and I'm sure not as much as you did. But comparing exp gains and killing mobs for exp in WoW vs EQ is comparing apples and oranges.

EQ was a LOT harderd to solo a single mob, let alone multiples. It took damn near forever to kill anything.
In WoW you can pretty much solo any even level mob with any class with little to no problems, and do it farily quickly.

So a formula that worked for EQ can't be easily applied to WoW.

As someone stated above, you were far less likely to waste mana in EQ by casting on a dead mob.
You could get up and make lunch in the ammount of time it took to cast anything in that game, and still come back with enough time to cancel the casting. :P

[Halo]

You are all correct. XP/hr and mana are inter related.

Leveling at it's purest form is based on XP/hr.

The hr part is fixed; nothing you can do about that (well, unless you're boxing at near the speed of light, but let's not get into that)

The XP part has a TON of variables going into it:
1. RAF: triple mob XP, triple quest turn-in value AND gifted levels

2. XP value of the mob per toon (which itself is related to mob level compared to toon level, elite mob or not, group size, rested or not)

3. Time to kill a single mob (related to group size, gear, spec but not affected by mana pool or regen unless you actually run OOM during a fight and have to wait for it to regen to finish off the mob... heaven help you if that's the case)

4. Time BETWEEN killing mobs (this is usually a big one: moving from mob to mob, eating/drinking, healing, looking at map, walking back out of instance, resetting instance etc, accepting turning in quests).

5. Time spent waiting for other toons in the group to gather quest items.

Group size decreases all of #2-4 and increases #5. The question is, which does it decrease MORE?

[Spook]

I am a sad panda. I am dual boxing a ret pally (main t6 gear) and a elemental shammy. And right now it seems that it is slow going. True, I have finished BT and almost done HF (For the rep needed for mah CHOPPA), but I am about ready to tear my eyeballs out. A prot warrior is ahead of me for goodness sake :P. I thought you were supposed to get a bonus of some sort if you were in a party? ?(
Lets look at the problem from a different perspective.

For the "PLAYER" to get a maximum level toon in WOW, a single toon will get there first. Period, end of discussion. Well, not quite, because this assumes that the solo player has the ability, skills and equipment, to make steady progress through the game, which in WOW is pretty much a given.

However, lets assume that a PLAYER wants ten total toons at maxumum level. Leveling each, one at a time would be the fastest for each TOON, but the player would spend far more time at the keyboard by the time he completed his ten. This is due prmarily to the travel time to do quests, and most WOW questing involve quite a bit of travel time. A group of five can travel from quest spot to turn in spot in exactly the same amount of time that the solo character can, so for this part of the play experience, five solo characters would consume five times the amount of time that the 5x group would. The group bonus experience for three or more toons actually more than makes up for the percieved decreased experience, due to the sharing, although it will SEEM like its taking longer for the group to level, as a solo toon shoots by them.

For this ten toon example, player A plays ten toons solo, each to maximum level. He finishes his first toon, gloating because player B with his five group is still only three fourths done, and starts his second toon. By the time player A gets his second toon about have way, player B finishes all five, and starts his second group. End result, player B has ten toons at maximum level, while player A is just finishing his third, and still has seven to go.

The above example assumes no magic bullet, like RAF, which tilts the odds so far in favor of the five box group that it isn't even a contest anymore. Does this make it any easier to understand? Yeah, the solo player will finish his character sooner, but he'll only have the one, while the multiboxer will have whatever number of characters, up to five, that he chose to play, and will be only slightly behind in finish time.

[Sam DeathWalker]

If you use castsequence X,,,, ,X,,,

You won't waste mana. Although you have to press the nuke button more times.

Ya there are a ton of factors to consider but as pointed out at the end of the day (lol thats from that level 80 guy video) one guy has 5 level 80 and the other 2 level 80.



"It took damn near forever to kill anything." Ya thats why I kinda like having 13 wizards.

[NumNum]

Is mana really an issue for shaman questing?

Inbetween getting hit by the mob when soloing, and traveltime with passive watershield regen - I cant really remember having had to drink with my shamans out in the world, the mobs are just too spread out.

[Memn]

Mana regen and dps are really only constraints for the solo leveller IMO. The group leveller has a much larger constraint of spawn rate. The majority of the game is tuned for solo grinding... I can never find enough stuff to kill!

[moji]

Mana shmana. that's not the issue here. I barely run out of steam on my toons, if you spec into some mana friendly talents (and you should pick up a couple) you can burn through 10-20 mobs depending on the class you choose before you even think about stopping. Even my fire mage, who is mana wasting as hell, solo can burn 10-15 mobs easily between mana breaks. Granted, he's in T6 and has crit and damage out the whazoo. Running around with 5 toons, you kill everything in 2 button presses, wasting the second half because mobs die too quick, but you also loose a ton of time getting to mobs, looting, and I'd say in most areas where mob population is kinda spread out like normal - 20 yards apart, you'd only see marginal gains with 5 toons compared to 2.

Where 5 really shines is how quickly it gets quests done. Later levels, it's ALL about questing. The rewards are huge, but it takes longer for 1 to kill 12 rhinos or whatever, and a 5 boxer can burn through it fast and be on to the next one. Dualboxing is still gonna be faster than one, almost guarenteed, but it's not too burdensome to take on collection quests and such, which can lead to big xp gains through chains. I'm currently dualing Warrior/priest, and just hit 77. Now that I got my flyer back, I'm plowing through quests, because being on a flyer changes everything. No more getting knocked off while crossing the zone, and the ability to drop right on top of a quest mob and killing it without killing every mob up to him - priceless.

Leveling fast = questing fast.