I'm the dev of "dualChoc".

[Itburnz]

dualChoc reads the chat buffer?

If you are reading chat buffers from the client. Then you are in violation of the ToS and this should NOT be dsicussed here. Thread locked.

From: "World of Warcraft/Data/enUS/tos.html"

2. Additional License Limitations. The license granted to you in Section 1 is subject to the limitations set forth in Sections 1 and 2 (collectively, the “License Limitations”). Any use of the Service or the Game Client in violation of the License Limitations will be regarded as an infringement of Blizzard’s copyrights in and to the Game. You agree that you will not, under any circumstances:

C. use any unauthorized third-party software that intercepts, "mines", or otherwise collects information from or through the Game or the Service, including without limitation any software that reads areas of RAM used by the Game to store information about a character or the game environment; provided, however, that Blizzard may, at its sole and absolute discretion, allow the use of certain third party user interfaces;


-Svpernova09

[Anemo]

Sure.

[Jafula]

Watching the demo video, I noticed that this program presses keys for you. Typing the command "#key s" on the main causes the slave toon to walk backwards (presses the S key). I assume you can cast spells as well. There is no way to do this from the wow API, the movement and spell functions are protected.

The ability to whisper cast was removed from the wow api. Why would Blizzard allow the same functionality in a 3rd party application?

In my opinion this is BAD, because the action does not orginate from a HARDWARE EVENT like pressing a key on the keyboard would do. In my opinion, if you use this program, you are fast on your way to getting banned.

[Itburnz]

Oh i have spoken to the Blizzard EU representative (actually before developing this). The word was basically : "As long as you do not automate anything your application is fine."

The program transfers your chatmessage into keypresses. Thats what it does. It works the same as other dualboxing apps but uses the ingame chat system instead. So you are correct. I dont know what you mean with "Cast was removed from the WoW API". When you enter /cast Spellname this still works so submitting that keyboardinput should be fine. The hardware event here is that you still need to create that /tell.

[Jafula]

There is nothing to stop me putting all those tells into a macro. Now with one keypress, I can execute that macro. So I could get my character to walk forward, cast a a spell, turn around, cast another spell, all with one keypress. I'm sure Blizzard did not intend this sort of behaviour be allowed.

I'd love to get some clarification from Blizzard on this chat control mechanism.

[zanthor]

Oh i have spoken to the Blizzard EU representative (actually before developing this). The word was basically : "As long as you do not automate anything your application is fine."

The program transfers your chatmessage into keypresses. Thats what it does. It works the same as other dualboxing apps but uses the ingame chat system instead. So you are correct. I dont know what you mean with "Cast was removed from the WoW API". When you enter /cast Spellname this still works so submitting that keyboardinput should be fine. The hardware event here is that you still need to create that /tell.The problems I have with it...

The installer triggers as a virus, you say so in your FAQ, however if you check the release notes of the installer you say you are using, it appears that all the false positives were eliminated. The site states "Endorsed by Blizzard", and links to the general GM statements, the only product that has specifically been endorsed by Blizzard is KeyClone, and it is generally accepted that was some minor miracle. Blizzard has said as long as one hardware event = 1 event on each client things should be OK, but your statement is misleading. "Give control to friends when AFK" is clearly against TOS as account sharing is clearly against TOS. "No setup! Start it and you are ready" is flatout misleading. It appears that you just start it and go, which is possible, however you are going to have to setup a crapton of macro's just like any multi-boxer is going to, or something seriously shadey is happening behind the scenes. The first time we hear anything about it was the first time the user had ever posted anything...If it's legit, then great, the more the merrier, but you will have to forgive the community for being skeptical when your website is filled with half truths and marketing speak.

[Itburnz]

There is nothing to stop me putting all those tells into a macro. Now with one keypress, I can execute that macro. So I could get my character to walk forward, cast a a spell, turn around, cast another spell, all with one keypress. I'm sure Blizzard did not intend this sort of behaviour be allowed.

I'd love to get some clarification from Blizzard on this chat control mechanism.No, that does NOT work. There is no queueing in the software. I really suggest you try it for yourself before making false assumptions.

[Itburnz]

The problems I have with it...

The installer triggers as a virus, you say so in your FAQ, however if you check the release notes of the installer you say you are using, it appears that all the false positives were eliminated. The site states "Endorsed by Blizzard", and links to the general GM statements, the only product that has specifically been endorsed by Blizzard is KeyClone, and it is generally accepted that was some minor miracle. Blizzard has said as long as one hardware event = 1 event on each client things should be OK, but your statement is misleading. "Give control to friends when AFK" is clearly against TOS as account sharing is clearly against TOS. "No setup! Start it and you are ready" is flatout misleading. It appears that you just start it and go, which is possible, however you are going to have to setup a crapton of macro's just like any multi-boxer is going to, or something seriously shadey is happening behind the scenes. The first time we hear anything about it was the first time the user had ever posted anything...If it's legit, then great, the more the merrier, but you will have to forgive the community for being skeptical when your website is filled with half truths and marketing speak.I'm using Winlicense from Oreans (so i dont have bother about coding license modells). Some virusscanners cannot unpack it and therefore trigger a generic detection. I agree some of the "features" a way too much "marketing" - will correct that based on your recommendations.

"No setup" is referred to the dualchoc setup. There really is just one button ... "on" to start dualboxing. Of course you are right, the macros still need setup but like in the video it's possible to manually enter them to have some basic dualboxing. My app is clearly aimed for new/rookie dualboxers. I'm sure most of you will stick to what they have already setup anyway.

I check this thread back and gonna update the webpage now. Thanks for your very valuable feedback - i didnt expect the page to look that bad for you :)
The one hardware event for 1 event per client is EXACTLY the same i got told by the community representative.

[Frosty]

I check this thread back and gonna update the webpage now. Thanks for your very valuable feedback - i didnt expect the page to look that bad for you
The one hardware event for 1 event per client is EXACTLY the same i got told by the community representative. The biggest problem you are going to run into is that everyone here has invested a LOT of time with our accounts.
So without any proof of what you say you have been told, it's going to be hard to get people (here) to try it.
As it is, this post is the first I've ever heard of your software. ;)

[Nachtkinder]

Never trust anything that sounds too good to be true.

There are right ways and wrong to introduce software into a community. When the first thing anyone hears about it is "zomg its not a virus" you can see how we might get a bad impression.

[Itburnz]

The biggest problem you are going to run into is that everyone here has invested a LOT of time with our accounts.
So without any proof of what you say you have been told, it's going to be hard to get people (here) to try it.
As it is, this post is the first I've ever heard of your software. ;)That's totally understandable. As for dualChoc being new... I've finished the homepage and the 1st release just this weekend... (Before i only had a given it out for testing to personal friends of mine.) .. I had a friend who tried to help me on marketing text and stuff but it appears that was rather some anti-marketing...

[Itburnz]

Never trust anything that sounds too good to be true.

There are right ways and wrong to introduce software into a community. When the first thing anyone hears about it is "zomg its not a virus" you can see how we might get a bad impression.Hab's scho kapiert! Hab die Seite DEUTLICH entschärft.

[Frosty]

Never trust anything that sounds too good to be true.

There are right ways and wrong to introduce software into a community. When the first thing anyone hears about it is "zomg its not a virus" you can see how we might get a bad impression.Hab's scho kapiert! Hab die Seite DEUTLICH entschärft.No clue what you're saying there. ;)

[olipcs]

Hab's scho kapiert! Hab die Seite DEUTLICH entschärft. trying to translate:
"Ok, got it! I eased (ok, not sure if its the correct word) the page drasticaly."

although, i don'T see a change..

[Harem]

Itburnz

I've often thought there was something already out there that did this. Closest, in my mind, is the twoboxtoolbox - where I can emote /follow me

I'll check this out - sounds very useful.


/agree with most of whats been said above, especially the 'over marketing' comments. Often over-marketing is a sign of a scam.



PS - just watched the video...

How do you read the chat interface from outside wow(non-lua)? I'm not a programmer, but isn't this reading memory or something?

[yetisWowbox]

Svpernova09 edit: We don't talk about cheating here. Read the forum rules.

[Svpernova09]

You're free trial key seems to be broken. And your help button refers to a page that 404's.

Let me know when I can test this out.

http://www.halosrealm.com/dualchocerror.gif

[Itburnz]

Try again, Nova! I was playing with the license tool and actually forgot to set it back to normal. Works for me now. Make sure there are no spaces/extra chars.

[Svpernova09]

Try again, Nova! I was playing with the license tool and actually forgot to set it back to normal. Works for me now. Make sure there are no spaces/extra chars.Same issue, do I need to redownload? I snagged the zip file if that matters.

[Itburnz]

Try again, Nova! I was playing with the license tool and actually forgot to set it back to normal. Works for me now. Make sure there are no spaces/extra chars.Same issue, do I need to redownload? I snagged the zip file if that matters.TBH i havent tested the .zip... gonna do that now. Guess this is the worst software launch ever...

EDIT: I've just tested the .zip - works fine as well. This might be a localization issue.

[yetisWowbox]

I tryed to use it but it randomly crashes, the bsods me with access violation non_paged_pool error in reans.sys 0x during the license screen and anti virus halts when rebootted

b79b5c68 809c4c28 89113020 89113020 00000000 nt!MiCheckSessionPoolAllocations+0xe3
....

[Itburnz]

Ok i obviously need to generate a new release. Gonna try to figure out why some people can run the license tool while others cant...

[Kel]

This won't be something I'll be trying, like others, I'm somewhat concerned about the legality of this in regards to Blizzards policies. Several reasons for this:

1. I'm not sure blizzard would class a line of chat as a hardware event, so I guess it depends on what actions you are doing with the tells. Following I guess is alright (at least it doens't seem to be something that other addons have been pulled up on), but for actually casting spells I don't think this is allowed (note this is only my opinion, it's not based on any proof from blues etc). There used to be an addon called whispercast which would let people whisper you a buff and you'd then buff them with the correct spell. Quite a while ago Blizzard broke the function that let people do that with addons, so I don't see how a piece of software that enables this is going to be ok with them.

2. Giving control to a friend. This is deemed account sharing and therefore a no-go in terms of not being banned, also having your toon controlled by a friend would class as unattended play.

3. The way macros are set up it is possible (with the use of an addon I believe) to put a delay inbetween (at least) two lines of chat, coupled with your software that would make it possible for people to perform more than one action with a keypress, so not needing to be at their computer in order to do something. Also addons are capable of of sending messages via chat, again making this a potential tool for unattended play or reactive in a way that isn't possible through blizzard macros, e.g. alt announces event in chat (like a stun), main whispers this to alt, alt uses pvp trinket. Now I'm not saying that the stuff for that is already out there (I've never needed to look), but from what I know of addons that do similar things I don't think it would be too difficult to set up a relay that works in that way.

Lastly, whilst endorsements of other software which has been used without problems supports this not being a keylogger, the fact that the alternative software was for 'warping and botting' doesn't fill me with confidence in terms of keeping my accounts up and running should I use it.

[Svpernova09]

This won't be something I'll be trying, like others, I'm somewhat concerned about the legality of this in regards to Blizzards policies. Several reasons for this:

1. I'm not sure blizzard would class a line of chat as a hardware event, so I guess it depends on what actions you are doing with the tells. Following I guess is alright (at least it doens't seem to be something that other addons have been pulled up on), but for actually casting spells I don't think this is allowed (note this is only my opinion, it's not based on any proof from blues etc). There used to be an addon called whispercast which would let people whisper you a buff and you'd then buff them with the correct spell. Quite a while ago Blizzard broke the function that let people do that with addons, so I don't see how a piece of software that enables this is going to be ok with them.

2. Giving control to a friend. This is deemed account sharing and therefore a no-go in terms of not being banned, also having your toon controlled by a friend would class as unattended play.

3. The way macros are set up it is possible (with the use of an addon I believe) to put a delay inbetween (at least) two lines of chat, coupled with your software that would make it possible for people to perform more than one action with a keypress, so not needing to be at their computer in order to do something. Also addons are capable of of sending messages via chat, again making this a potential tool for unattended play or reactive in a way that isn't possible through blizzard macros, e.g. alt announces event in chat (like a stun), main whispers this to alt, alt uses pvp trinket. Now I'm not saying that the stuff for that is already out there (I've never needed to look), but from what I know of addons that do similar things I don't think it would be too difficult to set up a relay that works in that way.

Lastly, whilst endorsements of other software which has been used without problems supports this not being a keylogger, the fact that the alternative software was for 'warping and botting' doesn't fill me with confidence in terms of keeping my accounts up and running should I use it.I agree with you 100%, I'm trying to verify the author's claims and if I find it does things against the rules, well, we'll go from there.

[Itburnz]

There used to be an addon called whispercast which would let people whisper you a buff and you'd then buff them with the correct spell. Quite a while ago Blizzard broke the function that let people do that with addons, so I don't see how a piece of software that enables this is going to be ok with them.I remember that. Now in whispercast it 100% automation. Remember dualchoc only triggers your text. Converts it from tell into chat. So you can for example just submit a "#cmd Hello" and it'll write "Hello" in whatever channel is active. This means for /cast you would 1st have to manually target someone using /target, then use "/cast whatever". There is no automation - i assume you can do the same with other programs, the difference is you have a more complicated setup to do so. (Making tons of macros.)

Seriously. All the software is doing is allowing you to control another character interface - just through the chat itself instead of tcp/ip or p2p. It might be the best idea to get a blue statement on the official forums for this. I guess everything else doesnt really matter...

[Itburnz]

3. The way macros are set up it is possible (with the use of an addon I believe) to put a delay inbetween (at least) two lines of chat, coupled with your software that would make it possible for people to perform more than one action with a keypress, so not needing to be at their computer in order to do something. Also addons are capable of of sending messages via chat, again making this a potential tool for unattended play or reactive in a way that isn't possible through blizzard macros, e.g. alt announces event in chat (like a stun), main whispers this to alt, alt uses pvp trinket. Now I'm not saying that the stuff for that is already out there (I've never needed to look), but from what I know of addons that do similar things I don't think it would be too difficult to set up a relay that works in that way.Well i can't deny that one could abuse the software to use it for automation. But i'm sure one can also use keyclone and other software for that.

[yetisWowbox]

So how does this software send to the chat frame on #cmd hello thing, does the text just instantly appear?

Or does it physically type it by moving the mouse to 'focus' the chat window then presses the keys "h" "e" "l" etc.. + "enter"?

Or is it not bannable to hook the chat interface? Or do Blizzard allow you to call their code - thats well cool if this is "endorsed" as you say I can use it on all 5 of my shamans :love: ?

Hmm ... let us know.

[Lax]

It is bannable to read or modify WoW game memory, including the in-game chat interfaces. Blizzard would certainly not approve of software that does that. Please explain to us how your software is reading chat, since you are preventing analysis of your 2 gigantic 3MB executables for something so mundane as applying keystrokes upon an incoming tell (which could be done with ~10kb in a .NET app or probably under 100kb without .NET). Even if it was legitimate to read the chat and automatically respond by pressing keys, I wouldn't trust these executables.

[Itburnz]

There is no hooking or calling of any code. The software simply reads the chatbuffer from the wowclient. You just wrote what it does. It types the text into the chatwindow (exactly the way other dualboxing software works. The difference here is that it does not read the keys coming from another dualChoc app but from the chat.)

[Harem]

The software simply reads the chatbuffer from the wowclient.

This is what I asked earlier. Since this isn't an LUA addon and is an external program - how is it reading the chatbuffer? This is something Blizzard allows?

Couldn't an LUA mod be written that does this? How does the twoboxtoolbox allow me to use '/follow me' to make my toons follow?

[Lax]

There is no hooking or calling of any code. The software simply reads the chatbuffer from the wowclient. You just wrote what it does. It types the text into the chatwindow (exactly the way other dualboxing software works. The difference here is that it does not read the keys coming from another dualChoc app but from the chat.)Thanks for clearing that up for us.

I believe you are wrong about how you think (or at least how you say you think) other dual-boxing software works. Your site says you can do things like this:

/t PlayerName #cmd /assist Playername
... which legitimate dual-boxing software accomplishes /assist Playername by emulating keystrokes to WoW binds -- it would be very unreliable to execute a command like "/assist playername" by emulating typing. I don't exactly believe this is what you are doing.

Also, it is very much against Blizzard's policies to read the chatbuffer from the WoW client memory. Any time you need information about WoW-specific memory addresses or data structures to accomplish your goal, you can bet that it is NOT within the rules of the game, and has no place on a forum like this. As someone previously mentioned, they disabled the ability to do similar things via addons, and there are "blue posts" stating that if they removed the ability for an addon to do it, they do not want you to do it.

I don't believe this is a) a real application regardless of whether it is allowed or not, nor b) allowed as per the Terms of Service. If it was doing this and only this, it would not come in the form of 2 encrypted 3mb executables with protection against running in a Virtual Machine. It may even do what it claims to do in order to hide its real purpose. I wouldn't trust it one bit.

The "endorsed by Blizzard" bit is hugely misleading especially with what the app claims to do, and I believe this is simply a tactic to get as many people trying it as possible under the false pretense, to install whatever malware is packaged inside. I know at least one person has sent an email to hacks@blizzard.com about this, and I would recommend anyone else do the same.

[Svpernova09]

If you are reading chat buffers from the client. Then you are in violation of the ToS.

From: "World of Warcraft/Data/enUS/tos.html"

2. Additional License Limitations. The license granted to you in Section 1 is subject to the limitations set forth in Sections 1 and 2 (collectively, the “License Limitations”). Any use of the Service or the Game Client in violation of the License Limitations will be regarded as an infringement of Blizzard’s copyrights in and to the Game. You agree that you will not, under any circumstances:

C. use any unauthorized third-party software that intercepts, "mines", or otherwise collects information from or through the Game or the Service, including without limitation any software that reads areas of RAM used by the Game to store information about a character or the game environment; provided, however, that Blizzard may, at its sole and absolute discretion, allow the use of certain third party user interfaces;

[zanthor]

There used to be an addon called whispercast which would let people whisper you a buff and you'd then buff them with the correct spell. Quite a while ago Blizzard broke the function that let people do that with addons, so I don't see how a piece of software that enables this is going to be ok with them.I remember that. Now in whispercast it 100% automation. Remember dualchoc only triggers your text. Converts it from tell into chat. So you can for example just submit a "#cmd Hello" and it'll write "Hello" in whatever channel is active. This means for /cast you would 1st have to manually target someone using /target, then use "/cast whatever". There is no automation - i assume you can do the same with other programs, the difference is you have a more complicated setup to do so. (Making tons of macros.)

Seriously. All the software is doing is allowing you to control another character interface - just through the chat itself instead of tcp/ip or p2p. It might be the best idea to get a blue statement on the official forums for this. I guess everything else doesnt really matter...Actually Whispercast had to have a button push (hardware event) and it used the whispers to Queue up the spells it would cast. It was simply a logic trap... a logic trap that blizzard removed completely from combat situations because they didn't want it used this way.

[Xzin]

Sorry but this software appears at first glance to be so sketchy, I wouldn't even run it under a VM.

[keyclone]

It is bannable to read or modify WoW game memory, including the in-game chat interfaces. Blizzard would certainly not approve of software that does that. pot meet kettle. just laughable.

it's also bannable to use loops, delays, or multiple keys from one key press.

of course, the last ban wave happened months after ISxwarden /wowglider had been used for months... all the time the users were being told how 'safe' they were, since your software hid glider from wow.