Rin
11-14-2008, 04:49 PM
All,
For those of you that have seen me around on the forums, I'm not usually one to predict doom and gloom, but I come here today after running numbers, looking through spell lists and talent trees, and I can only help but to think one thing: Will Death Knights (in and of themselves), be the end of the 5-boxed Shaman teams. I think the answer to this may be yes, and I would like to hold an intelligent discussion as to why this may be the case.
Death Knight Facts
- DK's are plate mail wearers, and could arguably be touted as Blizzards answer to spell-casters.
- DK's get a variety of talents, for a variety of different things, but the one line that truly shines is the Unholy line.
- DK's get Death Grip, a spell with a 30 yard radius that can pull a member of your team to them (haven't seen this resisted yet)
- DK's specialize in bursty damage, much like a post-nerfed Retribution Paladin, except they can also mitigate damage (especially spell damage), better than a Retri paladin.
Elemental Shaman Facts
- All caster, and shaman damage is largely based on their spell power (sp); recently blizzard has given shamans less crit chance and more SP damage (bigger end-game nukes)
- Shaman are mail wearers whom rely heavily on totems to help enhance them in battle
- Shaman are useful - a shaman can handle a variety of situations effectively (fear, tough bosses, etc.); but a lot of that viability comes from totems with long cooldowns (Elemental totems have a 20 minute cooldown)
- Shaman can easily be chopped up by plate classes (as we've seen in the case of the ret paladin or in the case of an arms warrior using whirlwind + rogue stunlocking you);
DK's going down the unholy tree will quickly realize that the tree is built for spell damage mitigtion. Literally, everything in the tree either helps to enhance spell damage, or reduces the spell damage that comes into the DK. There are two spells and an ability that I would like to point out:
Anti-Magic Zone: 10,000 + 2 * AP spell-damage barrier on all members within the zone (75% reduction, 2 minute cooldown).
Anti-Magic Shell: 100% reduction of all spell damage incoming to the DK (1 minute cooldown).
Magic Suppression (Passive): (Required to get AMZ and the 100% AMS) Reduces all magic damage taken by 5%
Also, if the DK spec'd Blood Elf, they will realize an additional 2% reduction in all magic damage taken.
What we have here is a base 7% magic damage reduction (your spells on a naked Death Knight, spec'd unholy will only be hitting for 93% of their 100% effective rate).
This is scary for Shaman, not only because realistically, our nukes will not be hitting for 10k per hit every single time at 80 (yes, even with talents, unless you burn your Elemental Mastery), but also because theres nothing we can do about the Anti-Magic Shell, and I believe the zone as well (need to verify). From the skill listing, it looks like Anti-Magic Shell can't be dispelled, spell-stolen, etc. I would envision the same thing for the Anti-Magic Zone, but I can't tell at this point. What this means for you in PVP is that unless you run up on an unholy death knight who's AFK, your first round of nukes wont do anything (provided the person sees you coming and knows how to hit 1 button on her keyboard). What's more devistating is that a team of boxed death knights can permanently keep you out of action. It is not unrealistic to say that a level 80 DK with blue gear should have an Anti-Magic Zone of at least 30k+. Are you going to be doing more than 30k+ damage per cast? That's doubtful; maybe with 10 shaman though.
On a roation, a Death Knight can keep up the Anti-Magic zone permanently ... (I'm doing this right now with my 4 DK's.. I have the zone up literally from the time I log on to the time I exit the game).
You might be thinking: Well, what if they run outside of the zone? they can't sit in the bubble forever.
You're correct to think that, but if you're in range to HIT a death knight with your spells, the DK team is in range to PULL your characters into the anti-magic zone 1 at a time (round robin). With this in mind, I ask the community - is this the end of the 5 box shaman team viability? I AM NOT saying that shamans arent useful, because they are; but with the recent nerfs and patches, shaman simply can not keep up with the damage and damage mitigation of current classes. Case in point, a 5 mage team may be able to get through the zone (5 mages x Mirror Image x nukes = at least 50k+ damage per tick); but the shamans do noth ave this luxury.
Thoughts?
Rin
For those of you that have seen me around on the forums, I'm not usually one to predict doom and gloom, but I come here today after running numbers, looking through spell lists and talent trees, and I can only help but to think one thing: Will Death Knights (in and of themselves), be the end of the 5-boxed Shaman teams. I think the answer to this may be yes, and I would like to hold an intelligent discussion as to why this may be the case.
Death Knight Facts
- DK's are plate mail wearers, and could arguably be touted as Blizzards answer to spell-casters.
- DK's get a variety of talents, for a variety of different things, but the one line that truly shines is the Unholy line.
- DK's get Death Grip, a spell with a 30 yard radius that can pull a member of your team to them (haven't seen this resisted yet)
- DK's specialize in bursty damage, much like a post-nerfed Retribution Paladin, except they can also mitigate damage (especially spell damage), better than a Retri paladin.
Elemental Shaman Facts
- All caster, and shaman damage is largely based on their spell power (sp); recently blizzard has given shamans less crit chance and more SP damage (bigger end-game nukes)
- Shaman are mail wearers whom rely heavily on totems to help enhance them in battle
- Shaman are useful - a shaman can handle a variety of situations effectively (fear, tough bosses, etc.); but a lot of that viability comes from totems with long cooldowns (Elemental totems have a 20 minute cooldown)
- Shaman can easily be chopped up by plate classes (as we've seen in the case of the ret paladin or in the case of an arms warrior using whirlwind + rogue stunlocking you);
DK's going down the unholy tree will quickly realize that the tree is built for spell damage mitigtion. Literally, everything in the tree either helps to enhance spell damage, or reduces the spell damage that comes into the DK. There are two spells and an ability that I would like to point out:
Anti-Magic Zone: 10,000 + 2 * AP spell-damage barrier on all members within the zone (75% reduction, 2 minute cooldown).
Anti-Magic Shell: 100% reduction of all spell damage incoming to the DK (1 minute cooldown).
Magic Suppression (Passive): (Required to get AMZ and the 100% AMS) Reduces all magic damage taken by 5%
Also, if the DK spec'd Blood Elf, they will realize an additional 2% reduction in all magic damage taken.
What we have here is a base 7% magic damage reduction (your spells on a naked Death Knight, spec'd unholy will only be hitting for 93% of their 100% effective rate).
This is scary for Shaman, not only because realistically, our nukes will not be hitting for 10k per hit every single time at 80 (yes, even with talents, unless you burn your Elemental Mastery), but also because theres nothing we can do about the Anti-Magic Shell, and I believe the zone as well (need to verify). From the skill listing, it looks like Anti-Magic Shell can't be dispelled, spell-stolen, etc. I would envision the same thing for the Anti-Magic Zone, but I can't tell at this point. What this means for you in PVP is that unless you run up on an unholy death knight who's AFK, your first round of nukes wont do anything (provided the person sees you coming and knows how to hit 1 button on her keyboard). What's more devistating is that a team of boxed death knights can permanently keep you out of action. It is not unrealistic to say that a level 80 DK with blue gear should have an Anti-Magic Zone of at least 30k+. Are you going to be doing more than 30k+ damage per cast? That's doubtful; maybe with 10 shaman though.
On a roation, a Death Knight can keep up the Anti-Magic zone permanently ... (I'm doing this right now with my 4 DK's.. I have the zone up literally from the time I log on to the time I exit the game).
You might be thinking: Well, what if they run outside of the zone? they can't sit in the bubble forever.
You're correct to think that, but if you're in range to HIT a death knight with your spells, the DK team is in range to PULL your characters into the anti-magic zone 1 at a time (round robin). With this in mind, I ask the community - is this the end of the 5 box shaman team viability? I AM NOT saying that shamans arent useful, because they are; but with the recent nerfs and patches, shaman simply can not keep up with the damage and damage mitigation of current classes. Case in point, a 5 mage team may be able to get through the zone (5 mages x Mirror Image x nukes = at least 50k+ damage per tick); but the shamans do noth ave this luxury.
Thoughts?
Rin