So, my guild flamed the hell out of me for leaving...

[TheBigBB]

I just left my raiding guild because I won't have time to raid with them due to real life issues. I mentioned that I am going to be around and 10 boxing, and I got a huge negative response from them. It's unbelievable because these are generally mature older people in this guild. A lot of this was through tells, but you can see one guy took it to the public guild forums. EDIT: I guess the thread got moved.

This is really shocking to me that people I raided with cordially for months would think to say these things. I've been vocally multiboxing 2 up to 5 and now 10 accounts since I joined this guild, too.

Since this was posted in their public forum, any one of you is free to reply, but please don't turn that thread into a flame war. I'd ask that you not comment unless you think you have a really good reason to, and make it clear who you are and why you're there.

In case the thread or a post is deleted at some point, here are some quotes from my "friend":
10 box? Seriously man do you even have friends? The whole point of this game is community...this is just fucking sad I'm sorry. Leave real people for playing with yourself. Sad....
You think I give a shit what you think about me? Don't even show your face here again, just go play with yourself please since you obviously can't socialize with normal people Point of interest: What I "think about" him was actually something nice. I didn't flame him back.

[FunkStar]

Can't believe they're that harsh. Definitely not after the way you made your goodbye post. Couldn't really think of any better way to put it to words.

Not much to do about it though, try and ignore it, and realize that they're simply being ignorant when it comes to why you are leaving them.

[Helmer]

hate to see something like that happen. but truthfully if they're gonna be like that, at least u know now and can stay away from them

[shaeman]

I couldn't look at the thread but It looks to me just like sour grapes.

I think they view this as a rejection of sorts, when people are rejected they hit out. I guess there is also a bit of gang mentality to it as well.

"You don't want to be in our gang any more - then you are dead to us".

Do what suits you best. Real friends would support you in what you want to do, not berate you for it.

[mmcookies]

It'll be ok. I still give people too much credit as well.

[aNiMaL]

They just can't deal with loosing you :p

Some of my guildies were hating me for boxing aswell,
but when they found out I hardly pvp with 'm after the first bit of gear grind they soon didn't care and even started liking it.
As 10 boxer it's easier to raid for just a few hours whenever you want,
which (can) make more time for social life..
(Can is the magic word here :p)
They just don't want to see your reasons,
they're just mad you're leaving.

Do as you please, it's your life, it has to please you.
Not them.

[Carnage]

seems to me that these are the kinds of people who believe friends online = friends irl, the joke is on them. Let them live there silly lives, someone has to stack the shelves of our local supermarket ;)

[Yamio]

Don't pay no mind to those asshats.

You hurt their feelings by going your own way and they took it as a rejection; you dumped them. I'm guessing their thinking is if you're not WoW'ing with them then you're either quitting the game period or you're dead.

That guy who posted on the guild forum is not emotionally mature enough to simply wave goodbye and tell you how much fun it was to have you with them. I don't care how old he is, and by your description it sounds like others in the guild harbor those same feelings which makes them just as emotionally immature.


I guess there is also a bit of gang mentality to it as well.
I've seen this same mob mentality wreck havoc throughout a guild; the gm gets mad, then the officers, then the guildies. It's like a floodgate that has been opened. You were honest and cleared your conscience. That's all you can do. TBH, if they act like this at someone's leaving then I'm sure theirs is a guild I wouldn't have liked being part of.

[Lumpa]

Toons = Real Family

[Svpernova09]

Seems like you're better off without them if they're gonna be like that :-/

[valkry]

At least you know you made the right decision leaving them. Imo, gear up, 10 box and have better progression than them in wotlk.

PS: Speaking of communities, you have one right here who accepts you as you are!

[Fef]

seems to me that these are the kinds of people who believe friends online = friends irl, the joke is on them.

So true.

[Ifalna]

All I can see in that link is one douche doing what they do best.

Being a douche.

I wouldnt call it your guild flaming you, so much as their being one retarded mouthy asshat making an idiot of themselves.

[TheBigBB]

All I can see in that link is one douche doing what they do best.

Being a douche.

I wouldnt call it your guild flaming you, so much as their being one retarded mouthy asshat making an idiot of themselves.

He is speaking for many people. As I said, I got tells in game about this. At least three members of the leadership of the guild expressed similar things to me in-game. He's just the guy who decided to respond in the public forum. I didn't screenshot the tells I got, but some of them were just as harsh.

Tbere are some good people in the guild, and one of them just responded it seems. I'm glad someone there finally had the guts to publicly support me. I know that a few people ARE my friend in there, even if they are too shy to speak up.

Even one person flaming me is new ground for me because on my server, being PVE as it is, people aren't as sensitive that I'm upsetting any balance of PVP power, People tend to be interested in what I'm doing.

[Kaynin]

Raiding guilds.

All I got to say really. :p

To make a raiding guild succeed as best as possible, a certain amount of 'taking the game serious' is needed for many people (also called elitism.). And every now and then people overdo it, most common in raiding guilds, and also competative high arena ratings and such.

Will always have people with a set mind bitching about anything and everything that doesn't fit that mind set. Nothing to do about it, and not worthy being bothered by it.

I'm in a casual ten man guild, we aim to conquer content as best as possible, but don't get bothered if it doesn't go perfectly either. All ex raiders and good players, nice people.. There ain't nothing better, really!

Literally, we only have ten people in the guild. One is a dualboxer and me a quad boxer though. We 14 manned Gruul and stuff, really fun. If some people can't show, me and the other boxer can fill up spots. It's perfect.

One thing is for sure, a hardcore raiding guild I will never join again. :P

[Anjuna]

I'm happy for you....

































Happy that you don't have to raid with s___heads like that guy anymore. Best of luck to you.

[TheBigBB]

One thing is for sure, a hardcore raiding guild I will never join again. :PAgreed! I used to think that I wanted to see all the content enough to struggle with it, but I see how unnecessary that is now. You get to see content eventually even if it means waiting 2 years until you outlevel it. Seeing PUGs take down 25-man Kael'thas is a real eye-opener. hah

[Rin]

This is to be expected, I think. Very few people understand boxing, let alone 10-boxing. Oddly enough, on my server, Burning Legion, I've received a few informal invitations to several T6 raiding guilds on my server. I like not being forced to play WoW on a daily basis though, as I often have other things going on. I'm sorry that you had to deal with such a negative response; what you're doing is great - there's only a few of us that can handle 10 :D .

Best,
Rin

[Catamer]

when I was part of a non-multiboxing guild I was constantly being asked to run people through instances only to have them go AFK or say they were sorry and had to log before the instance was over.
I would say a lot of them just wanted twink runs for gear, no quests to complete.

if you can find ( or create your own ) multiboxing guild you will find the other multiboxers are highly self sufficient and do thier own twinking runs.
you will find life so much better.

[Sajuuk]

They moved the thread so it's no longer public.

[Rin]

There's no way I could convince you to roll Horde and switch over to Burning Legion, is there BB? :D

- Rin

[TheBigBB]

There's no way I could convince you to roll Horde and switch over to Burning Legion, is there BB? :D

- RinOh man, I wish you could just smash characters through a horde-transformation machine. I like the horde, I just wound up on the alliance when all was said and done. I started off on horde and then tried alliance just to see their side, and wound up using that alliance as my raider due to enjoying the class I had picked for her.

[badashh]

Well you know I'm on Garona on the horde side if you ever feel like making the transfer over. I just boosted my guys from 25-40 in about 3 hours last night. If you want to get started over there let me know.

[TheBigBB]

Well, I really couldn't leave this team. I have 5 of them at 70 and 7 of them over 60. but maybe I'll see you around, like in lake Wintergrasp. :-)

[SilverSlice]

what you just experienced thats just sad.
looks like they can'nt handle people having other priority then wow and raiding

all in all i say you are quite so better without that guild

o yeah, i do love 10 boxers if you do anything cool let us know :)


Silver

[Schwarz]

Hardcore raiding guilds are cool to do once I think. It was sweet walking around the game with full t4/t5 before 99% of everyone else had it. I remember at one point thinking to myself that there might only be ~20 as geared as me. But in time you realize that commiting so much time to a game is crazy. It isn't so much the time it is the rigidity or it. I had to pass up on several things IRL to get my raiding in. Now that I look back at it that is stupid and I would never do it again. I saw best of luck to you playing solo.

[elo]

Hardcore raiding guilds are cool to do once I think. It was sweet walking around the game with full t4/t5 before 99% of everyone else had it. I remember at one point thinking to myself that there might only be ~20 as geared as me. But in time you realize that commiting so much time to a game is crazy. It isn't so much the time it is the rigidity or it. I had to pass up on several things IRL to get my raiding in. Now that I look back at it that is stupid and I would never do it again. I saw best of luck to you playing solo.You hit the nail on the head man. I certainly thing I spend as much, or close to it, collective time playing as a lot of the hardcore raiders, I just can't spend it on their schedule. Specifically I (and this is where multiboxing ROCKS) walk away from my system at least a dozen times every night.

Hungry? Just go make a snack.
Thirsty? Go get a drink.
Kid's going to bed? Stop and tuck them in, XOXO
Wife has a question? Stop and talk to her.
Wife has needs? Stop, go to the bedroom for 3.5 minutes.
Need a smoke? Just go smoke.
Out of beer? Go to store and buy more.
etc. etc.

So sure, I've spent 4-5 collective hours in an instance but I'm always able to put my family and personal needs first and don't have to worry about screwing over other people (which I HATE to do). Then when family is out of town or in bed or just w/e I can join up with people on a variety of toons, filling a variety of roles, and I've been able to get the gear I need on my own to be valuable to the team when I can play.

This is what multiboxing gives us. It let's us put in all the work and effort required to succeed in the game without having to depend on or be screwed by other players all the time and that is a glorious thing. I feel bad for people, mainly their families, who wrap their lives around a raid schedule or even just do 5 mans every night on vent. Even 3-4 nights a week for 3-4 hours is taking an incredible amount away from your family because you can't just walk away at anytime to take care of the needs of your family. I've got to think this plays into the high anti-boxing emotions. Even if they won't conciously admit it people know what the game is really taking away from them and it infuriates them that someone else can have both a RL and an OL (online life). In some cases we're actually more valuable than the hardcore single boxer because we have so many toons to draw from. My guild (less aggressive raiders/players) loves having me around because if they need to fill a spot they know I've got a toon ready to go (provided my family can support it). Also when someone has one of those group quests to complete they just call on the Elo Army, I drop a toon, invite them, and we're good to go.

Now, I'm certainly no Ward Cleaver, even with boxing I still spend too much time on the game and not enough with the kids, but it's definitely a healthier balance and they all know that if they need my attention they've got it, no questions or conditions.

[pengwynman]

Wife has needs? Stop, go to the bedroom for 3.5 minutes.
i lol'd :D

[Kaynin]

I think most multiboxers have raided actively in a hardcore environment in the past, and are glad they did so they know what it is like but are enjoying the game with minimal attachements to schedules, able to freely log in and off at any given time. Experiencing and enjoying the game how it is meant to be enjoyed!

Without regrets and never going back to raiding.

Íf I'd had to guess, I'd say 80% of all multiboxers feel the same. :P

[TheBigBB]

Everyone in here echoes my thoughts about this actually helping your personal life. Thanks for a little cheering me up, guys.

I find it funny that people in my old guild who leveled every class in the game to 70 the slow, solo way were never called out, but as soon as I level 5 at once it's like this big point of conflict. It has to be some kind of jealous rage for some people, there's just no logic behind it.

[Rin]

Wife has needs? Stop, go to the bedroom for 3.5 minutes.
i lol'd :D

Haha, only 3.5 minutes?

:D Sorry, I lol'd too

[Rin]

This thread is great. I enjoy multiboxing because it lets me do what I want, when I want, without restrictions. I too come from a hardcore Everquest (uhm, when it was popular - :thumbup: ) background, where I would spend far too many hours raiding, with no end in sight. I remember once spending 5 days out of my week (at about 6 hrs a night) on 1 boss in the game, and then finally killing him on day five, only wondering - wtf am I doing?

I started boxing because it gave me an outlet - a way to do the things that I wanted, whenever without worrying about others. You'd be suprised at how many people will actually embrace you if you say something like, "hey, I'm going to be running <this>, do you want to come, or can you bring any chars along?" Also, as other posters have pointed out, you don't need to worry about other people when you're boxing. And, now that I've got my girl into boxing ... well, you can only imagine how our nights are spent :rolleyes: .

[elo]

Oh yeah I didn't even mention runs where I take only one toon then someone bails and we can't find someone else so I just bring in an alt. Talk about the <3. Particularly in KZ. There was one night where I started with one and then we lost a healer. So I brought on one of mine as well. Then 2 bosses later the guy came back. I just walked my priest out and he comes back in. Then a boss later a DPS had to go, so I brought in a 2nd dps. Then at Netherspite we lost another DPS. Where were we going to find a DPS to come in for ONE boss??? THE ELO ARMY!!! In comes another shaman and we take him down.

No muss, no fuss, running instances with friends, while multiboxing.

[Motgib]

I'm on Garona Alliance Side as well. Which guild were you previously in? So I can avoid them, lol.

I've been in <Dragon Bane> for about 3 years and I really enjoy the atmosphere :-)

If you ever need any help running anything let me know, I'm currently leveling my Prot pally(64) / Holy Priest (67) Team. (But I've also got a few 70s)

[elsegundo]

those people arent worth your time. now you know. life's too short to have to deal with that garbage. hope you find a nice relaxed guild to chill with in the future.

[Sam DeathWalker]

Ya chosing yur own times is the greatest thing about multiboxing.

Also in guilds how do they give you loots? Each toon gets dkp or you get one toons worth of dkp to split over all yur toons? Or is there just enough rot stuffs you will get everything you want anyways?

[TheBigBB]

Ya chosing yur own times is the greatest thing about multiboxing.

Also in guilds how do they give you loots? Each toon gets dkp or you get one toons worth of dkp to split over all yur toons? Or is there just enough rot stuffs you will get everything you want anyways?It depends on the guild how you do loot. You either earn points to bid or do a loot council where officers vote. Usually everyone ends up well geared after a few months no matter what. The big difference is that in a points guild, usually the same guy gets his gear first - the guy who has shown up to every raid since 2004. Anyway, loot is usually only a point of drama in poorly run guilds, which is most guilds.

[TheBigBB]

I'm on Garona Alliance Side as well. Which guild were you previously in? So I can avoid them, lol.

I've been in <Dragon Bane> for about 3 years and I really enjoy the atmosphere :-)

If you ever need any help running anything let me know, I'm currently leveling my Prot pally(64) / Holy Priest (67) Team. (But I've also got a few 70s)I'd like to add you to my list of friends, because at some point I will be going back and doing content which uses more than 10 people, and it'd be nice to have some boxer-friendly people who might want to bring some alts along to help out. I'd like to get the classic raider achievement, for one. I have my own guild for all my characters called <Army Dreamers> now, if you want to ever slap some alts into my guild to keep up with my progress, that'd be cool.

The guild to avoid is Intrigue. They used to be called Conspiracy, but the GM had health issues and left. A lot of my friends skipped out after that, but what's left is still good players. Their GM is an awesome player; one of the best theorycrafters I ever met. Just, apparently, don't get on their bad side. :thumbdown:

[suprafro]

It's just one of those "never tried it and therefore don't understand it" things. Not much different really then trying to explain MMOs to a non-mmo gamer

10 boxing = pro, imo

[Malekyth]

Agreed with pretty much everyone. Someone capable of responding that way to such a courteous post is beneath consideration, not worth thinking too much about unless you're shaking your head and smirking while you do it.

It's possible that it wasn't actually meant personally ... I mean, maybe the dude didn't think about his responses but just acted the way he thought he should. I've noticed a lot of that in WoW, where certain stimuli evoke particular canned responses, e.g. complaining about something in /trade begets "QQ MOAR!" as an immediate reflex action. The complaint doesn't matter, the actual substance of the complaint is nothing they intend to think about, they just follow the script established by louder peers and move on. I think a lot of the negative responses to multiboxing are unleashed for the same reason, because the unleasher thinks he's supposed to. This guy might've seen "multibox" and consulted his script: "oh, I need to be incendiary, OK", is all. Or he could have seen "leaving guild" as a similar trigger. Either way, it's possible that it wasn't a truly personal response, so I hope there is no scarring. :)


10 boxing = pro, imo
Agreed^2

[TheBigBB]

Agreed with pretty much everyone. Someone capable of responding that way to such a courteous post is beneath consideration, not worth thinking too much about unless you're shaking your head and smirking while you do it.

It's possible that it wasn't actually meant personally ... I mean, maybe the dude didn't think about his responses but just acted the way he thought he should. I've noticed a lot of that in WoW, where certain stimuli evoke particular canned responses, e.g. complaining about something in /trade begets "QQ MOAR!" as an immediate reflex action. The complaint doesn't matter, the actual substance of the complaint is nothing they intend to think about, they just follow the script established by louder peers and move on. I think a lot of the negative responses to multiboxing are unleashed for the same reason, because the unleasher thinks he's supposed to. This guy might've seen "multibox" and consulted his script: "oh, I need to be incendiary, OK", is all. Or he could have seen "leaving guild" as a similar trigger. Either way, it's possible that it wasn't a truly personal response, so I hope there is no scarring. :)



10 boxing = pro, imo
Agreed^2This is very possible, and you deserve 10 boxes of multiboxer cookies for successfully analyzing human psychology on a web forum. The guild leadership, of which he is not quite, were the ones who disliked me the most. They saw my boxing as sort of taking my time away from their goals, I think. They let me do it on my own time, but didn't like me for it. So, this guy probably saw his guild officer buddies bad-mouthing me and decided he'd be the cool guy to repeat their behind-the-scenes trash talk to my face. That's a very likely scenario. Especially since I got some hate tells from officers, too.

[eqjoe]

You box and keep all the loot, and you get to play on your terms when and where you want.

They are upset because you don't need them.

Life is so unfair!

-j

[5fingersofdoom]

6 months down the line you won't care.
Look forwards not back.
(btw10box is awesomeness in a can gz) :)

[asonimie]

I think most multiboxers have raided actively in a hardcore environment in the past, and are glad they did so they know what it is like but are enjoying the game with minimal attachements to schedules, able to freely log in and off at any given time. Experiencing and enjoying the game how it is meant to be enjoyed!

Without regrets and never going back to raiding.

Íf I'd had to guess, I'd say 80% of all multiboxers feel the same. :PMy Thoughts Exactly. I used to push end content with one of the top 25 guilds in the world. I quit the game for 6 months and when I came back they all treated me like I had committed High Treason. It's one of the things that got me into multiboxing - focusing my Elitist Talents into something else that can yield Above Average achievements > 5Boxing. Same motivation that drove me to raid in the past, but infinitely more rewarding in my opinion. Not one of those raiders from my old guild could log in and Solo Heroic MGT in 20 mins, then sign off and watch a movie the rest of the night on a whim. Thank You Boxing :)

[TheBigBB]

My Thoughts Exactly. I used to push end content with one of the top 25 guilds in the world. I quit the game for 6 months and when I came back they all treated me like I had committed High Treason. It's one of the things that got me into multiboxing - focusing my Elitist Talents into something else that can yield Above Average achievements > 5Boxing. Same motivation that drove me to raid in the past, but infinitely more rewarding in my opinion. Not one of those raiders from my old guild could log in and Solo Heroic MGT in 20 mins, then sign off and watch a movie the rest of the night on a whim. Thank You Boxing :) Yeah, when you think of them sitting there slaving over the game unable to move until the GM says so, you don't feel bad about leaving at all. I was nervous about the money at first, but I love WoW so much that I know I won't stop playing it. If spending more money can improve my quality of life by making a hobby of mine more managable, it's worth it. I also realized that even at $1300 per year in subscriptions fees, I used to spend $1000 per year on console gaming so if I stop buying $60 console games every month, it's barely more money at all. I guarantee that when solo boxing, I'd get so bored that I'd buy other games. Not that WoW bores me in general, but how often did I have to log out for the night because no one was running some instance I needed? Often enough.