Hmm, 8600GT 256MB to 9800GT 512MB didn't make much difference

[Hachoo]

So I just today upgraded my video card from an 8600GT to a 9800GT, expecting a huge framerate increase.

I have 3GB memory, dual core 2.2GHz AMD X2, 2 7200RPM hard drives. Everything ran pretty decent prior to upgrading the video card. Symlinked data/cache directories. I was running my main window at 1152x864 and the 4 clones at 800x600, all at minimum settings but with the main window environment detail set to half. I had maxfpsbk to 10 on all 5 windows, and maxfps to 30 on all 5 windows. My main window would stay at 30 pretty much everywhere, except shatt and probably org (would still be 20-25 in org though).

Anyway, upgraded to the 9800GT, uninstalled drivers, installed newest ones, loaded up the game with slightly different maximizer settings. Set maxfps on main window to 50, and tried 2 different layouts. The first layout is the main window set up at something like 1344x1050 and the 4 clones in tiny windows veritcally on the right side of the screen - this layout came from the keyclone website. The second layout is the same as before, only 1280x960 on the main window, 800x600 on the other 4 hidden behind the main window.

I still average around 30fps even with maxfps set to 50, even if i manually set it to 1000. Sometimes outdoors it goes up to 40 but in even small towns like thrallmar it will drop to 20, which is WAY worse than my 8600GT. Aside from the larger resolution the only things i changed are the terrain distance slightly (a few notches) which I actually had higher on my 8600GT for awhile and didn't have any issues.

Additional information: The hard drive is not reading like crazy - in fact its barely reading at all, so I'm not swapping nor am I loading ridiculous amounts of cache. When I check task manager I'm not above 50% on either of the two processors, so the CPU isn't the limiting factor.

If I run a single copy of wow in a different folder at 1680x1050 8x FSAA, all effects set to max, shadows set to minimum, I get a steady 60FPS (at least outside - was at tyr's hand when I tried it, haven't tried it in a city). Anyway, not sure why when multiboxing the 9800GT seems slower? I guess I could try dropping back to 1152x864 and see what happens but considering the 3dmark score of the 9800 is almost 3x as much as the 8600 I would think that would barely trip it up at all.

Looking for suggestions.

Edit: thought I'd add I just tested shatt with 1680x1050, 8x FSAA, full detail on everything except shadows, and I get a steady 30FPS (single copy running)

[Silya]

.my guess would be the cpu or the BUS on the mother board.. it can be a mojor slow down.. and it would be my best guess as your computer seams to say on 30 fps, no matter graphic settings.
even more into computer details, the fps i getting improved by most or your computer part, how ever the graphic details is only desided by your graphic card.

Conclution, would be better with a farster CPU.. ( dont know much about AMD cpu'es, but if using intel for 5boxing, i would have a 3,6 GHZ(duel core) with 6mb level 2 catch(quadro 2,8 + Ghz) to run flawless)

Or a farster motherboard, but need more details to tell if its okey, or not



Edit: by the way, i am able to run 5x wow, 4 in 800x600 hidden( no detail or eany thing) as well as a 1200x1024 with full details with 50-55 fps with this system: Xp service pack3, 4gb ram(xp is only able to use 3GB) a intel core2 duo E8400, 3GHz 6MB level 2 catch(overclocked to a 4GHz using zalman cooler) and a 8800GTs geforce graphiccard with 664(or something like that)MB RAM 4x 500 GB 7200 RPM in raid 1 to get a 2TB harddisk, and a MSI P7N Diamond Motherboard.

[Griznah]

Yeah, your CPU isn't fast enough for the GFX-card.

[Hachoo]

If thats the case why does WoW not even use more than 20% cpu per instance? Like I said, when i'm running around willy nilly WoW is only using 50% of each core total between all 5 copies. Seems like if it was the CPU, I would be maxing it out.

[Schwarz]

No scientific proof behind this statement: Upgrade to 8gig ram. Did this a couple weeks ago and it helped my lag in shat. Plus the cost to do this is ~$100.

[Freddie]

If thats the case why does WoW not even use more than 20% cpu per instance? Like I said, when i'm running around willy nilly WoW is only using 50% of each core total between all 5 copies. Seems like if it was the CPU, I would be maxing it out.
Where does that number come from?

It actually can be somewhat complicated to figure out if a CPU is getting maxed out. Microsoft explains this here:

http://www.microsoft.com/technet/prodtechnol/windows2000serv/reskit/prork/pred_ana_tbbt.mspx

Edit: on second thought that page probably won't help but I'm still curious where that number comes from.

[Kicksome]

Why not make the 4 windows hidden behind the main window like 320x200 res? You can't see them anyway.

Might as well make them 5fps in background too.

[Hachoo]

I heard that <10fps can cause follow issues? If not then I could lower them certainly.

I like having them 800x600 - after I tried the "all 5 visible at once" but the 4 clone windows were super small I couldn't stand it. I dont want to have to use PiP just to read the screen to equip items, change macros, train. etc :)

Also I'm running XP32, no 8 gigs of RAM, and I'm not maxing my RAM out either. In fact my wow windows only take up around 350MB of memory each.

[pengwynman]

No scientific proof behind this statement: Upgrade to 8gig ram. Did this a couple weeks ago and it helped my lag in shat. Plus the cost to do this is ~$100.this.

running multiple instances of WoW takes a lot of memory, with a 32-bit OS mine gets completely maxed out and i get a ton of lag in major cities. upgrading to 64-bit vista as soon as i get the disc in the mail.

[Hachoo]

Also I'm not talking about major cities, justrunning around the wilderness.

I actually did some more testing today and the biggest change for the better was when I lowered the environment view distance or terrain distance or whatever to minimum. Each notch upwards I bring that drops my FPS by 3 or so. At halfway my FPS sits around 25, but at minimum I sit at 40.

I really wanted this view distance to be increased because it makes it easier to navigate and things look better, but its not worth that big of a performance hit. Not sure why that makes such a big difference though, especially when I can have everything maxed out with 1 client and no issues.

Edit: RAM is not really an option, it would require me to get a new motherboard, new processor, and buy Vista 64, none of which I'm willing to do :) I would definitely update my processor to a quad core if my MB could handle it. Just looking for some proven facts as to how to tweak this. I've been a system admin for 13 years, currently a Sr. Unix System Admin so I know exactly how RAM, CPUs, Hard Drives, Video Cards, etc all function. From what I can tell there isn't a bottleneck right now based on tests, with the exception of maybe the video card, which I thought was weird.

As far as the CPU not being maxed, I can tell this because I can still open up additional programs like firefox and pidgin full speed and they work fine with no slowdown - when my CPUs get maxed those programs hardly function.

And also as I said I have like 500MB of memory free with all 5 WoWs running and a copy of firefox open :) Probably the fact that I hardly use any addons helps with the memory usage.

Gonna keep tweaking things and see what happens. I'll report here as I go.

Also, I cannot for the life of me find out the exact amount of memory WinXP 32bit can see. When I google I see anything from 3GB, to 3.2GB, 3.3GB, 3.5GB, etc. Which is it? I have 3GB right now, if its 3.5GB I would upgrade to 4 just to get the extra 500MB but if its only 3 or 3.2, etc, its not worth the $20 to upgrade. Just curious. Can someone with WinXP 32 and 4GB of memory tell me exactly how much memory windows says you have in system properties?

[Schwarz]

When I had 4gig ram on a 64 bit system task manager would show ~3.5gig usage with 5 wows/keyclone open. After I upgrade to 8gig it shows 4.1gig usage with the same programs running.

[Hachoo]

Case in point...

I'm sitting in the center of a village in zangarmarsh, Each wow process is taking 255MB of memory, I have firefox open, total CPU usage is at 33% for the whole system, and I have 1.3GB of memory free.

All this and I'm still only getting 27FPS on my main. I really don't think its my cpu or memory.

[pengwynman]

Case in point...

I'm sitting in the center of a village in zangarmarsh, Each wow process is taking 255MB of memory, I have firefox open, total CPU usage is at 33% for the whole system, and I have 1.3GB of memory free.

All this and I'm still only getting 27FPS on my main. I really don't think its my cpu or memory.I'm not trying to be a douche or anything... but i find it hard to believe that 5x wow, 1x firefox, plus the OS and any other programs you may have open only take 1.7GB of memory.


Also, I cannot for the life of me find out the exact amount of memory WinXP 32bit can see. When I google I see anything from 3GB, to 3.2GB, 3.3GB, 3.5GB, etc. Which is it? I have 3GB right now, if its 3.5GB I would upgrade to 4 just to get the extra 500MB but if its only 3 or 3.2, etc, its not worth the $20 to upgrade. Just curious. Can someone with WinXP 32 and 4GB of memory tell me exactly how much memory windows says you have in system properties? A 32-bit OS can access a TOTAL of 4GB of memory. That's 4GB between your system memory and all addon hardware. So if you have 4 GB of physical memory plugged in, and a 512mb video card, that's 3.5GB of system memory that the OS can address.

[Hachoo]

Screenshot taken 30 seconds ago:

http://www.vonderbecke.net/images/wowmemory.jpg

[Hachoo]

Not sure why no one believes this LOL. And this is after playing WoW for almost an hour, with firefox open on dual-boxing.com the entire time.

[pengwynman]

Not sure why no one believes this LOL. And this is after playing WoW for almost an hour, with firefox open on dual-boxing.com the entire time.*shrug* =/

[Schwarz]

I appologize for turning this into a MORE RAM NEEDED thread. But here try this for shits and giggles. Your 5 wows is taking up ~1.7gb of ram. Your system has 3gb of ram. Remove 1gb of ram and see if you keep the same performance. One of 3 things will happen

1) performance will go down. Ok so maybe there is something screwy going on with task manager not showing it's actual usage of ram. I would argue that adding more ram will then increase your performance

2) nothing changes. Ok well adding ram won't help at all

3) performance increases. This is the best result you can go around selling services of removing ram and increasing performance.

All I can speak to is that I had some problems with toons losing follow in Shat on there epic flyers. Upgrading my ram helped this alot.

[Hachoo]

Actually WoW is only using 1.4G...1.5G total with firefox and keyclone. Maybe I'll try that later.

I did make 1 tweak to my video card that upped the FR a few per second. In the Nvidia control panel theres an optimization for dual monitors on a single card, and I changed that to single monitor single card, it did help some. Lowering the 4 clone windows to maxfpsbk 5 didn't see to help at all.

[Hachoo]

Another update - prior to just now I was running my main WoW and 1 clone WoW on CPU0, and the other 3 clone WoWs on CPU1. Moved all 4 clones to CPU1 with just the main on CPU0 - this has upped my framerate by 5-10 in most places, including shatt. When I land in shatt now I can actually run around immediately at around 20-24fps, clones don't lose follow. Although now if I'm in shatt and switch to my clones it takes longer to be able to click on a quest guy or whatnot but thats really just in shatt.

So that definitely helped. Think I might try to overclock my CPU tonight...its a 2.2GHz Socket 939 X2 from awhile back, thinking I'll just try to bump it to 2.4 or 2.6 and see what happens.

Edit, figured i'd also add that even with all 5 clones in the center of shatt, my wows are using like 330MB of memory each.

[Hachoo]

Holy schnite...

I just OC'd my Athlon 4400+ (2.2GHz) to 2.53GHz, and my framerate in org on my main window went from 30 to 45.

Not sure why this matters even though the CPU isn't even hardly in use but I guess that clears up a lot of what the issue is. I think between the OC and the moving the clones to 1 CPU helped a ton. Will keep testing.

[Silya]

Holy schnite...

I just OC'd my Athlon 4400+ (2.2GHz) to 2.53GHz, and my framerate in org on my main window went from 30 to 45.

Not sure why this matters even though the CPU isn't even hardly in use but I guess that clears up a lot of what the issue is. I think between the OC and the moving the clones to 1 CPU helped a ton. Will keep testing.


lol and you didnt believe me ? ffs xD

said it was the cpu like 20 min after you posted... people today.... :cursing:

[oMek]

it IS the cpu, wow is VERY cpu bound, and the fact your older cpu is going to bottleneck your new graphics card...

when you have the task manager open the wows will drop ALOT of cpu usage. when you bring em back to the forground they will go back up.

[elsegundo]

didnt read much of the responses but here's my guess.

1. processor isnt up to par for 5-manning it.
2. your ram is at 3gigs... stil tight. may need more.
3. wow will automatically adjust settings to match (or best use) your new videocard. really. did that to mine when i upgraded.

[Hachoo]

Holy schnite...

I just OC'd my Athlon 4400+ (2.2GHz) to 2.53GHz, and my framerate in org on my main window went from 30 to 45.

Not sure why this matters even though the CPU isn't even hardly in use but I guess that clears up a lot of what the issue is. I think between the OC and the moving the clones to 1 CPU helped a ton. Will keep testing.


lol and you didnt believe me ? ffs xD

said it was the cpu like 20 min after you posted... people today.... :cursing:Hey I had people saying everything from CPU to BUS speed to Memory to Graphics settings, had to check one thing at a time!

[daviddoran]

Just because you aren't at 99% cpu and ram used, doesn't mean you aren't being limited by them. Efficienty comes into play. I have 8gb of ram, and each of my wow windows uses upwrds of 500mb, and i get great performance (as long as I keep em all on the same video card's monitors, diferent issue there) I turned the graphics all the way down on the slaves, and capped them at 60 (they would each run up to 80-90 fps before) My main is also capped at 60, but with the graphics all the way up, and at a higher resolution, sometimes dips to 40fps, but that's still perfectly fine.

I regularly see my CPUs at 85-95% utlilization accross all 4 cores, spread pretty evenly, while running 6 wows. I'm pretty sure that I am only limited by the CPU speed, available RAM (would love to go to 16gb, just to see if each wow takes up more of it, and the fact that ram is so cheap) and my bus speed. I have a Velociraptor for my main wow, and a regular folder for all of the slaves. I used to run 5 separate folders, but it got tiresome, and when the 3.0.2 patch came out, I didn't want to bother copying 4x, so i moved back to one.

My next upgrade is going to be a motherboard with 1 full PCIe x16 slots, (my second one is x4 electrical) with 16gb of ram, and whatever generation of quad processor is available (unless the 6-8 core ones come out soon). I also plan on using SSDs either for the whole OS and wow, or just for wow, and stick with velociraptor for the basic OS. A stripe of 4 32gb SSDs sounds juciy :) and ill just back it up to a 160gb SATA hdd every night :)