Keyclone - Got an email from a Blizzard friend

[Evilseed]

Hello,

I spoke to a friend at Blizzard who works in their UI Development and he gave me a heads up.

Keyclone might become automatically bannable by Blizzard's Warden client.

The reason is because Keyclone is starting to perform actions that are approaching or are already against the TOS.

Acceptable Example:
Keyclone takes SHIFT+F1 and syndicates it to multiple wow.exe windows. This is simply key broadcasting which is fine.

UNACCEPTABLE, BANNABLE EXAMPLE:
Keyclone can assist with logging you into World of Warcraft. This require s file editing by an outside client, apparently gray or against the TOS.

To the Keyclone guy:

You might want to consider removing anything that could remotely cause Blizzard to frown upon Keyclone, such as editing any game files, including ones that can be edited manually.

UPDATE:

Hey guys, don't shoot the messenger. I'm just relaying something that was told to me.

The email I have says this:

Quote:
"Keyclone violates the TOS by its new method to log you into the game, so watch out, word is that a new signature for keyclone will be added to the list soon"


Somebody said here that Keyclone edits a file, perhaps that is what the issue is?

BTW, for all those disbelievers, I am an avid keyclone fan. I'm 5-boxing Shamans right now Smile

[sherkas]

lol @ you.

Whats your name again... forgot but its something related to you representing the WoW GMs and the warden rules... ya sure.

[zanthor]

Hello,

I spoke to a friend at Blizzard who works in their UI Development and he gave me a heads up.

Keyclone will soon become automatically bannable by Blizzard's Warden client.

The reason is because Keyclone is starting to perform actions that are now becoming BOT like by automating your WoW activities.

Acceptable Example:
Keyclone takes SHIFT+F1 and syndicates it to multiple wow.exe windows. This is simply key broadcasting which is fine.

UNACCEPTABLE, BANNABLE EXAMPLE:
Keyclone can automatically log you into World of Warcraft. This is considering gameplay automation.

To the keyclone guy:

Please immediately remove this functionality and STOP ANY PLANNED OR EXISTING functionality that has even the slightest amount of automation in it.

Keyclone can't automatically log you in.

Keyclone simply edits a flat text file on your system, a task you can accomplish with NOTEPAD.EXE, and puts an account name in it. This is not modifying the game, not automating anything. It's a feature already functionally possible by copying the game client for each different copy of wow you want to play.

[smallo]

im sure the poster of this thread hasnt used keyclone in any way at all, and only posted this to gain a little attention.

but however, keyclone just copies the method that blizzard have been using for ages within their own client.

if you take the time to open up the config.wtf located in the account folder, you'll see a parameter something similar too SET accountName "accountname"

so if the keyclone method is classed as botting for remember the account names, then im sure blizzard better fire themselves first.

<----- DOOR.

and btw, i've got a friend of a friend that has a friend that lives with a cousin that has a friend thats got a friend that spoke to a girlfriend of his friend that knows someone of a friend that works at blizzard too, and he said omg, you spent all that cash on a multiplexer to 3 box, why didnt you just get keyclone.

[Evilseed]

Hey guys, don't shoot the messenger. I'm just relaying something that was told to me.

The email I have says this:


"Keyclone violates the TOS by its new method to log you into the game, so watch out, word is that a new signature for keyclone will be added to the list soon"

Somebody said here that Keyclone edits a file, perhaps that is what the issue is?

BTW, for all those disbelievers, I am an avid keyclone fan. I'm 5-boxing Shamans right now :)

[sherkas]

thats told to you buy a disgruntled player who cant keyclone.


the term new signature shows that he knows close to nothing about the issue.



However for you, read these forums a bit more and learn what its all about before your believe your friend.

[Evilseed]

[quote="sherkas"]thats told to you buy a disgruntled player who cant keyclone.

Your comment has no impact on the situation. I am simply relaying a message told to me from Blizzard.


the term new signature shows that he knows close to nothing about the issue.

You should research how Warden works. Once you do, you'll eat your words. To help you understand, know that a "signature" is simply something unique that can identify something. Taken from the context of the quote I said, it is pretty clear that Warden (Blizzard's detection/ban system), has a list of "signatures" it compares against to identify softwares or mechanisms that are in place. Quite simple.

[zanthor]

So don't run warden...

Thats easy enough, since Warden is part of the Launcher...

[keyclone]

i called a friend at blizzard.. he hadn't heard this, but will look into it further and get the official answer on this. (hopefully)

in the TOS, whenever someone says to me. a developer, that i shouldn't modify game files, that would normally mean the binary, dlls, graphics, audio, tcp/udp stream, or memory... basically anything at run time.

i only modified a config file, which other addons and applications do... and anyone with notepad can do as well. is that automation? hardly. it just saves you from having to have multiple copies of wow laying around.

none of the changes effect in-game actions at all... only pre-game settings.

if they want it out, i'll remove it... no problem

[Wilbur]

So don't run warden...

Thats easy enough, since Warden is part of the Launcher...

Wrong, you uninformed idiot, if you don't know what you are talking about then please STFU.

As for the automated login, regarding TOS, I can see how it could be interpreted as against the rules. I'd personally suggest removing this feature for now. Yeah it might mean that some of you have to spend an extra minute logging in, but hell, isn't it worth it to keep keyclone off the Blizzard ban-radar?

[Gallo]

So will Blizzard hypothetically Ban people for using this feature, or for using keyclone at all?

[Team_Supa]

Easy way to avoid the ban hammer is by alerting GM of what you are doing and how you are doing it , and taking screen shots.

Once they are clear and agree that it is all fine, then you have justification.

Also theres ways of hiding things from warden, and im sure keyclone can just build in a special hide or random header renaming feature for it anyway.

None the less editing the config file is fine.
Editing textures / terrain / dlls / hex / in out stream is not

The Blizzard rep if it was that sent that message proberbally is some junior who didn't know what the hell keyclone was and quickly looked it up and was like BOT BOT BOT ZOMG HAX WTF.

Thats me done [^_^]

[Ebola]

So don't run warden...

Thats easy enough, since Warden is part of the Launcher...

Wrong, you uninformed idiot, if you don't know what you are talking about then please STFU.

As for the automated login, regarding TOS, I can see how it could be interpreted as against the rules. I'd personally suggest removing this feature for now. Yeah it might mean that some of you have to spend an extra minute logging in, but hell, isn't it worth it to keep keyclone off the Blizzard ban-radar?

You know for the most part people are civil on these forums and I like it that way.... Its not nessisary to be rude and adversarial for no reason.

[zanthor]

I'd agree with Ebola as well, most people are civilized.

I've run process monitors and debug tools to watch what is scanned on my system when I run wow, if I run Launcher.exe, it scans my process list, if I run WoW.exe, nothing scans my process list...

Of course this WAS pre-2.0, however I'd say that blizzard's patcher seeking out my wow.exe shortcuts and changing their target to Launcher.exe probably backs that up a little...

If I'm wrong, correct me, no need to be an ass.

[jrox]

Warden is definitely a part of the wow client and there is no way to run wow without concurrently running warden.

[Wilbur]

Warden scans Inprocess, so anything modifying either WoW files or memory will be detected. As for "getting around warden" the idea is laughable. There are one, possibly two people who can circumvent Warden entirely, and this is not by "disabling" it, its by spoofing it with false information. Let me tell you, these people's help doesn't come cheap.

As for the flame, whilst you may pride this community on its civility, I pride it on its intelligence and technical ability. Thus someone posting a "lol just don't use the launcher to disable warden" post annoys me a fair bit, due to this person obviously not having done their research.

If you have an issue, feel free to PM me.

[Kro]

Then its not safe to use now Keyclone?

Thanks

[henrik.falk]

Warden scans Inprocess, so anything modifying either WoW files or memory will be detected. As for "getting around warden" the idea is laughable. There are one, possibly two people who can circumvent Warden entirely, and this is not by "disabling" it, its by spoofing it with false information. Let me tell you, these people's help doesn't come cheap.


As someone who actually knows how to program, that's just wrong.
On so many levels.

Anyho, trying to hide from Warden would pretty much seem like
we are admitting that we are doing something fishy.
Better just keep a dialogue open with Blizzard.

[keyclone]

i second ebola

[Otlecs]

There's lots and lots of information around on how Warden works, and you don't even have to dig very deep. It seems somehow petty to NOT post a link to a very good analysis of it when a quick Google will find it anyway, but I'll resist.

It's very sophisticated, hard to consistently get around and nobody - including the oh-so-glib coders of a well known 3rd party execution environment - has actually managed to consistently defeat it.

Simply put, Blizzard aren't stupid. Once an application is on the radar, it's bad news and I think our efforts should be focussed on making sure KC stays OFF that radar.

I sincerely hope that the original poster is either just here to stir it up (as I suspect) or is mis-informed.

I'd be all in favour of a "KeyClone Lite" edition to be honest. I liked it just as much before it entered the grey area of keymaps, round-robins, hosting the executables for maximiser, etc.....

Oh, and it's entirely possible to correct people without resorting to mindless flaming. It's a great shame to see that happen in this thread.

Peace.

Keep us informed, KC.

[keyclone]

Warden scans Inprocess, so anything modifying either WoW files or memory will be detected.

ok, i'll play.

as per the wow forums, it is normal to modify the config.wtf. i have confirmed what is stated in this post that:

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=2856137036&postId=28557107534&sid=1#4

there are blue posters (GMs) that recommend or endorse modifying the config.wtf file.

your statement that warden looks to see if anything has modified the files... while being 'in process'... would solve the issue right there. the config.wtf file is modified PRIOR to executing wow.exe. as such, as far as warden is concerned, the files are not changed during runtime.

seems to me, EvilSeed is just trying to spread (evil) seeds of doubt

[Wilbur]

As someone who actually knows how to program, that's just wrong.
On so many levels.

Care to explain?


Anyho, trying to hide from Warden would pretty much seem like
we are admitting that we are doing something fishy.
Better just keep a dialogue open with Blizzard.

I totally agree, some of the 'grey area' parts of Keyclone should be temporarily suspended until we can enter into a proper dialogue with someone who is capable of making these sorts of decisions on behalf of Blizzard (i.e someone higher than a GM). If Blizzard see us to be cooperative with them then we are far less likely to ever have any punishments brought against individuals for Multiboxing.


seems to me, EvilSeed is just trying to spread (evil) seeds of doubt

Whilst I hope this is the case, it would be sensible for every eventuality, we don't want to get caught with our pants down and end up with a lot of our community getting banned just because we didn't heed the warning.

As an additional note, I believe Blizzard would give us fair warning if Keyclone were to become "illegal" however I find it far more likely that AutoHotKey would be their 'prefered' target, simply because of the scriptable nature of it.

P.S. Links to Lax's blog about warden and warden-net.

http://onwarden.blogspot.com/
http://www.ismods.com/warden/

I hope these provide some info - more than the Greg Hoglund posts do anyway.

[keyclone]

until we can enter into a proper dialogue with someone who is capable of making these sorts of decisions on behalf of Blizzard (i.e someone higher than a GM).

in the works...

[Djarid]

Remember it all comes down to the user... if we use keyclone legitimately then we should be safe.

I have a G15 and that can be used very effectively for botting and other activities contrary to the TOS as can most of the devices that give additional keys and come with macro software.

[zanthor]

From the FAQ Linked:
No. ProcessGuard will prevent Warden from having certain access to programs that it shouldn't, but Warden will still be able to find any in-process modifications, as well as scan the names of running programs and windows.

This goes right along with my research on the subject - Before TBC I was a fairly aggressive botter, I have mentioned here before that I botted a priest from 1-60 and to fully exalted with Alterac Valley, I've pulled more stonescale eels from the ocean than a major fishing barge could... And I did it all without getting nailed.... of course I only did it while I was at the keyboard.

The funny thing there is that my played character has been reported for botting 3 times that I know of, writing UI mods while picking Whipper Roots or in Alterac Valley since you need a raid seems to raise some flags.

The links on warden are appreciated, Everything I saw showed that an active scan of all processes was run when launcher fired off, and other than looking at the process list WoW seems to stay in it's own space. Since Keyclone doesn't MODIFY anything in process, it shouldn't be a problem. Then again, playing WoW on linux shouldn't be a problem either Link (http://www.cedega.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=41042).

[Ughmahedhurtz]

I'd highly recommend you guys get off the warden topic. While I understand there's some concern for a common multiboxing program here, discussing how to get around warden and its methods of detecting cheats are gray area and something that "official sources" would probably frown upon. Also, the keyclone author has said he's looking into it. Leave it at that.

[kadaan]

I've run process monitors and debug tools to watch what is scanned on my system when I run wow, if I run Launcher.exe, it scans my process list, if I run WoW.exe, nothing scans my process list...

Of course this WAS pre-2.0, however I'd say that blizzard's patcher seeking out my wow.exe shortcuts and changing their target to Launcher.exe probably backs that up a little...

If I'm wrong, correct me, no need to be an ass.

The Launcher searches the active processes for known keyloggers. Starting WoW directly doesn't perform this check. Warden is completely separate.

[Fortis]

Keyclone might become automatically bannable by Blizzard's Warden client.

This is BS. There is nothing like "auto"-banning. Blizz takes banning serious and will ALWAYS review the account before banning.

And to all the other people: COME ON!! Here is one guy, craving for attention and you all react to it!

My friend at Blizzard said, dont believe anyone who claims to have a friend at Blizzard. And youre damn right, thats a paradoxon.
Cheers.

[Suribusi]

Wow, this thread is filled with nothing but miconceptions and FUD. The only person who was remotely close was Wilbur.

Warden is a very intrusive program. On top of doing memory checks in process, it also actively scans out of process for known "bad software" via hashes. The links to Lax's blog is the only reading I would recommend to anyone.

Other miconceptions/FUD clarification:
-Blizzards bannings for 3rd party software are automated, it is when you bitch about your ban that they get human review, or if you get reported and they monitor you (because they don't detect what you are doing with method 1)
-Warden runs scans throughout your whole wow session.
-Warden scans out of process as much as it does in
-Techniques to "defeat" warden are just as wilbur stated, which is more of "faking results". If your client doesn't report warden scan data to their servers you get disconnected.
-Attempts to "defeat" warden are no futile. It is entirely possible if you know wtf you are doing.
-Lax said Greg hollunds book was laughable. (Maybe not exact quote, I think he mentioned it in his blog).
-The only truely successful person at doing so is Lax.
-Yes, call me a fanboi, because I am. Throughout the whole history of warden, there have only been 2 months (scattered about) of detectablility for the isxwow extension using his anti-detection measures.

Here is a closing factual statement: There are only a small handfull of people around here that will every be at or around 0% risk of getting banned. Those people are the ones who employ 100% hardware methods. Anything else is "technically" against the EULA/TOS. Synergy, multibox, keyclone, ahk.... you name it. What the software is used for is irrelevant, it is simply up to blizzards team for what they decide is bannable.

There is a risk using any software here, so if you don't want to get banned, the best option is to take 0% risk. Blizzard will notify you via e-mail letting you know that software you have is bannable, and it will come with either a 72 suspension or a full ban. But it won't say "software x is bad", it will say "you have something to make us do this, so figure out what it is on your own and remove it".

Overrall, the basic goal is to provide a nice medium between risk/reward. Multibox and other apps like it provide a very nice way of controlling multiple characters for minimal risk. With keyclone, it might be a very small amount more (currently). This is the happy medium that a lot of us go with, because we simply can't or don't want to dump extra money into hardware to mitigate the risk..

From all my currently knowledge on the subject I would say that the OP isn't presenting anything of merit. I would also agree with the person who said that AHK and/or AutoIT are more likely targets before something small like keyclone. There are bigger fish to fry, which is why blizzard has a lawsuit with MDY and has scans in place for their app, and not keyclone. It is not worth their time to persue....currently.

-S