6 Mini-ITX boards + 1 ATX in a single case

[Herc130]

I am seriously considering getting 6 of these http://www.jwele.com/motherboard_detail.php?419#_spec



http://img56.imageshack.us/img56/1051/1217225097du7.jpg ('http://imageshack.us/')

and pairing it up with 4850e 45w cpu's, 2 sticks of 2gig ram and a pico-psu. Total for that should be @ $335 per set-up. There are other options using Intel G45 or Nvidea 8200 NB mobos that will decrease it the price to @$300 per set-up, but they do not have a PCIe slot on the mobo. As far as I know, this is currently the only ITX FF board that has PCIe. I am pretty sure for my needs, any of the onboard graphics options from these three will do fine as I would only use it to box Everquest with most things set to low, so am still deciding if I really need a PCIe fallback. I think all the onboard graphics solution are 65nm and low wattage, at least the 780G and 45G is, not sure about the 8200. I think at full load, this set-up would be less power hungry then some light bulbs, which would be great, because I already know how much it cost to run 6 ATX computers which makes doing this build actually feel economical to me even though I already have all the hardware to box all I need lol.



I will either build the 6 ITX boards in its own case, stacking each mobo upwards or I will add it into a case project I am already doing and have 6 of these ITX boards along with one ATX for my main computer.

http://img234.imageshack.us/img234/7425/img0702aw2.jpg ('http://imageshack.us/')



pretty sure I can bend some aluminum that will attach each mobo right behind a 120mm fan and then figure out a way to make the cableing look clean.





Has anyone used an ITX board to play Everquest or WoW? What were your experience? I am trying to figure out if I can go with an even less powerful onboard graphics, because some of those boards look alot better for what you get for the money and would reduce each set-up cost to only $200 per unit (even less considering these use regular DDR2 and I have a shit load of that sitting around. The one I linked with the PCIe slot uses SODIMM), which would seriously make it easier on my wallet both in initial purchase and future energy savings. It's just, the best of these boards use Nvidea 7100 onboard graphics, which I think may still be good enough and it's not like I plan on using these ITX units to do anything but bot army with.

[Xzin]

Make sure it has an x16 ELECTRICAL slot. I use Micro-ATX dual core boards. Works great and actually faster than standard ATX boxes. 7100 will probably not be fast enough. That is a VERY underpowered on board video.

[Herc130]

The J&W 780G ITX mobo is PCIe x16, although it runs it at x4. It will take any PCIe X16 cards and I think even running at x4, it will not be humanly noticable if even noticed on a bench compared to x16 full atx boards. The 780G onboard video is suppose to be really good for an onboard solution and is an AMD HD3200 equiv. I have seen a couple benchmarks and the G45 is pretty much on par with the 780G, maybe even better (supposedly @ 8400 equiv) and supposdly the Nvidea 8200 is just a little behind. So I'd think these will run Everquest fine for what I need, maybe even better then for what I need. I have played EQ on my old Dell 700M laptop which had an Intel Extreme Graphics 2 solution and 2gigs ram. I'd say it played well enough to use as a boxxed account set-up. I think a GMA 950 solution would do even better and I think the Nvidea 7100 is @ the GMA 950 level or maybe higher although I am not sure on this. Hard time trying to find reviews on the 7100 onboard solution (other then the actual vid card).

It's just they make a very nice looking ITX board that supports 4GB ram and can run a 35w intel CPU, but it only comes with the Nvidea 7100 graphics solution and a PCI x1 slot. Although it sells for $60, where as the G45 and Nvidea 8200 sells for $130 and the 780G is over $150. I am not looking to use these machines to do much, would just like it powerful enough for EQ and as low wattage as possible. Might just go MATX as well, difference is ITX is 6.7' x 6.7" and M-ATX is 9.7" x @9" (they have em as low as 8" and as high as 9.7") and I can fit 3 ITX side by side on my case, but only two M-ATX, so if I go M-ATX, it's almost a given I will won't be putting it in the case I am making now, which is no big deal, I can construct some other solution. My only real concern is if the M-ATX will take more wattage to run.....I would think it would not, because it will basically be the same NB and CPU, just a bigger board and full PCIe x16 support

[Herc130]

Loaded my U810 ultra portable laptop up with Everquest and ran around. It is doable on that and I only minorly tweaked it down. Am pretty sure I can lower settings even more to have the game run more smoothly. As is, it will work, but plays the game very jerky like

The U810:



5.6" screen 1024x600 res

800MHz cpu

Mobile Intel Express 945GM (which I think is a GMA 950)

1gig of ram max (it's soldered in...the laptop is smaller then a DVD disk)

4200RPM harddrive

and I have it running on Vista premium.



If that can run it, I am pretty sure the new Atom ITX combo will do better

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813121360



Thats the mobo and the CPU. CPU draws 8 watts! I think the IGP draws @ 40 watts, board will do around 10watts or so, a 5200rpm 2.5" hdd will be around 10 watts and a 7" TFT LCD I found on ebay for $75 (add a $35 controller also) claims 12 watts max draw and I think all this is at load. At idel, it will be less.Much less. So..@80 ('mailto:So..@80') watts (while playing) per set-up and a cost of $250 each...forgot to add in a pico psu for $50 each as well (also, for OS, I have a technet membership that I paid $99 for.....so I am set for OS's already and have 10 keys for each different MS OS's and would use XP pro 32 for these boxxes). Thats on the low end for performance but it is also probably the most efficient set-up for energy savings and I think will run EQ well enough for boxing, considering my U810 laptop does



Very very rough and incomplete sketchup of what I have in mind

http://img357.imageshack.us/img357/7917/multiboxga9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

there will be a second set of three mobos above the bottem ones. Pico psu's are very small and take up nearly no space. Those 6 green rectangles are the back side of the 7" LCD modules, the harddrives will either be mounted right on the intake/exhaust fans I will add or above the top set of mobos. The box is 20" wide x 10" high, but I will have to make it sligthly wider. Also, was thinking I should raise it up a little so the bottem screens arn't just above the desk. Anyway, that is roughly what it will be, but still much to think over and change around. Here is a size comparison

http://img252.imageshack.us/img252/4797/multibox2fq6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Or I use a 780G, G45 or 8200 IGP board that should easily play EQ, along with a 35w (intel) or 45w (amd) cpu. I will use @30watts more with the CPU on these boards, but save about 20watts because these IGP's are the new more efficient ones, so probably end up at @100watts at load, have a much more capable box that will run the game smooth, but cost @ $100 more per build.

[Multibocks]

that is sweet! I'm impressed with some of the stuff people come up with on this board. I'm a loser, I make one machine do all 5 accounts and just opened my wallet asking them how much they want =/

[Griznah]

This is looking really sweet! keep the info coming :)
Have you concidered some small SSDs? You can fit everything on a 32GB for your setup, but I guess it will break the budget?
Anyways, awesome!

[Kicksome]

are there any PCI (not xpress) video cards that run wow half way decent? I like the fact that the atom board and chip is only $80.

[Kaynin]

Also make sure your airflow is good. 5 of those babies would produce a lot of heat, and you need a spacey enough compartment with well placed fans to get rid of that heat. :p

Sounds like an awesome idea though. A bit of a 5 in 1 box pc. xD If I had more spare time on my hands, I'd so build a custom case for something like this. :p

[Kicksome]

Did you see this motherboard? It's the new intel one. Intel BOXDG45FC LGA 775 Intel G45 Mini ITX Intel Motherboard ('http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813121353')


It has a Intel GMA X4500HD graphics card onboard which is decent - you won't need to replace it.

[Herc130]

SSD's are nice, but I am not of the thinking that it does much for gaming beyond load time. Load time is not really an issue. They do use less energy, but for the $$, I'd rather go with a laptop 2.5" HDD.

There are supposedly 8500GT, 8600GT, 9500GT and 9600Gt's in PCI (non express). I have even seen pics of the Albatron one, which I think are the only makers of these, but I have never found any for sale and I have looked everywhere. The PIC cards I have seen for sale, best ones are the NV 5200, AMD 2400 and 9250. However, I am not so sure these are much of a step in the right direction compared to the IGP GMA 950. I find it very silly that Intel only offers the dual core atom (or any atom) combined with the 945 chipset. No doubt they will release it with the G45 sooner or later. But considering my single core 800MHz cpu, 1gig ram, GMA 950 laptop running vista can play EQ ok, I have no doubt that the Atom 330 dual core 1.6GHz cpu, 2gigs ram, GMA 950 running XP Pro will do it significantly better. Also, even though EQ is the older game, WoW should run better at lower settings ( no idea how the expansions change this if at ll), because from what I understand, WoW uses much less polycount.

[Herc130]

Double post, forum acting very strange lol

[Herc130]

The Intel G45 was the first one I considered using. The IGP on it would work fine and I like intel cpu's better. I was going to match it up with this 35w cpu
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116038 . However, a 780G like the first one I linked at the top of this page is even better and about the same price. The AMD cpu I would use for that is 10w's higher then the intel, but also much faster. I am leaving for Hong Kong tomorrow for a 3 week trip and will be checking out the computer shops there. The board I think will be ideal is the 780G and it is made by J&W, which is located right in Hong Kong. If I can get them for @$100 US a board, I will go that route because once I buy, I am stuck with it weather it works or not. Otherwise I wait till I get back to the US and buy it online off a US e-seller for $150 a pop where I can RMA if it does not work. I am hoping either Intel or AMD comes out with their low watt CPU in that time frame. Intel already has the dual core Atom's out, but it is only available soldered onto a motherboard. Unfortunately, the motherboard comes with the 945 chipset that uses GMA 950 IGP, which would work for me, but just barely.

An Nvidea GTX 280 does about 230 watts according to Nvidea. 230watts is over two of these builds total wattage. 6 of these builds will put out less heat then a single build of many peoples desktop. The hardest and hottest thing on it will be the NB and I may put an after market heatsink/fan on it or mill my own blocks from the verticle mill at my work. Have some aluminum and copper bar stock laying around anyway. If it goes in the huge case build I am doing now, I may even run some water through these boards, although it really doesn't need it. I take cooling very seriously and trust me, it will not be an issue ina box I build, even if each of the builds ran 4 times hotter then I think they will. Here is a build log of what I am doing now and what these 6 boards may go in if I can fit it...which I can if I do pico-psu's, but not sure if pico-psu's will be in the budget ($80 to $100+ a pop) and efficiency on them are below 80%. I can get a small ATX psu that does over 80% efficiency for $40 each or one that does just below 80% for $9 each (clearance), both made by Antec, which I trust. Anyway, here is the build log. If I don't add the 6 ITX builds into it, then I will build the case for the ITX after I get this thing done. I will probably use acrylic for the ITX case. Also, let me point out, this huge box isn't getting all this cooling because of EQ lol


Not as easy a thing to do as I was thinking it would be. Part of the problem being I can only work on it durring the weekend and I usually like doing other things durring the weekend. If I only had a garage, I could use the shop to do certain things and then do the rest at home, but I have an apartment with noise rules, so working at home is out. The shop is at my work and there is too much going on from 7am till midnight for me to use it durring the weekday and only working on it durring the weekend is taking forever for everything to come together.

The computer hardware I will get into later. This is a case build from scratch and that is mostly all I am focused on for now. The case will be 24" wide by 24" deep by 30" tall. It is split up into 3 sections, with the top being a horizontally mounted motherboard. It will have 9 MCR320 radiators, 8 MCP355 pumps (4 XSPC res tops, 4 non res tops), a shit load of 120mm fans and fittings. 4 loops: CPU gets 2xMCR320, VGA 1 gets 3 MCR320, VGA 2 gets 3 as well and 4th loop is for NB/SB whatever and gets 1 MCR320. Or I may do something completely different, but there will be at least 4 loops.

I am not a metal worker. I am not a craftsman. I have access to the shop and some knowledge on a few things, but this is not my normal gig. I am winging it through alot of what I did here. My planning was very loose and I wish I would have spent more effort on it, because it is now costing me alot of effort to work my way around problems I could have avoided. Anyway, onto some pics.

There is more, but it's just the same stuff...more rads, pumps, etc.
http://img383.imageshack.us/img383/248/img0475cd4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Here is a sheet of .063" thick 6061 T6 bare. It is 4'x8' and really scratched up as well as quit a few gouges. I can fix/hide these, but no way I make this a bare aluminum finish or even anodized. It will have to be painted. I like black, but that's been done to death. Doesn't mean I won't paint it black, but I am open to other colors....although only dark colors...maybe plum red....some kinda deep blackish red.
http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/6188/img0481op0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

This is a table shear. It cuts aluminum sheets very well
http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/7123/img0483hu8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/5957/img0485bx8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Got some 1/2" angles to form the edges on the panels. Cut em up with 45 degree ends on this meiter saw I got at Home Depot for $20.
http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/7765/img0520dc3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


Layed out on a front/back panel
http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/8895/img0523ro4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img234.imageshack.us/img234/9706/img0524hy4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


Drilled a couple holes with a hole saw
http://img234.imageshack.us/img234/8342/img0547hj9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img234.imageshack.us/img234/8945/img0527ve0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img234.imageshack.us/img234/3464/img0528sg6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


Layed out my side panels, measured it out and then cut the side panel into three sections. I was going to have a TEC chiller build in this and the bottem section was going to house the hot side of the TEC, so I made a section to isolate it from the rest. I have now decided a TEC chiller is not worth the effort and won't be doing it, but the section was already cut so the case will be put together as if I were needing the bottem rads, sectioned off. Who knows, maybe I will do a TEC chiller after a while, even though everything shows that it is a worthless pursuit.
http://img234.imageshack.us/img234/1576/img0535bh3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Drilled fan holes for the sides using the front panel as a templat
http://img234.imageshack.us/img234/9011/img0545jj4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Rad holes done.
http://img234.imageshack.us/img234/6610/img0548nm4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


Worked on angles for the front and back panels
http://img234.imageshack.us/img234/3974/img0551fv6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


http://img234.imageshack.us/img234/3471/img0552mj6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


Countersinks for all holes I will be riveting through
http://img234.imageshack.us/img234/162/img0579xh2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


These are flush rivets. Many here are probably familier with the blind rivets. These are actually much bigger then the ones I used..otherwise it's exactly the same. It's just my camera sucks at close ups, so I just got the biggest flush rivets we had and took a pic.
http://img234.imageshack.us/img234/20/img0719tx5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

You install these rivets either with a rivet gun and bucking bar. Using the bucking bar to press against the tail end of the rivet as you jack hammer the head of the rivet with the rivet gun till the tail buckles and locks the rivet in place
http://img234.imageshack.us/img234/7238/img0583jh3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Or you squeeze it with a rivet squeezer...although you are limited to only edges as the squeezer can't reach anything else
http://img234.imageshack.us/img234/4452/img0720aw5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img234.imageshack.us/img234/6122/img0723xd9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

There's a rivet in between each cleco. Tried getting a close up pic, but non came out very well. With some sanding, I doubt even a blind person can feel the rivets while running their fingers over it.
http://img234.imageshack.us/img234/8155/img0722ud8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Tail side
http://img234.imageshack.us/img234/171/img0586wf0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


http://img234.imageshack.us/img234/9599/img0727fd9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img234.imageshack.us/img234/8567/img0700it2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img234.imageshack.us/img234/7955/img0701kr4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img234.imageshack.us/img234/7425/img0702aw2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img234.imageshack.us/img234/2733/img0703jg9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


Ok, that's it for now. Next weekend I work on angles for the sides and maybe panels for the different sections. I ordered two 5x5.25" drive bay's from Mountainmods and once I get those, will see about placing it on the front panel and if I like it, will make the cuts to install em. For a PSU, I have a 1600watt Ultra X3 and as great looking as I think that PSU is, I will be making a larger PSU box for it and will gut the X3 and fit it in my larger box with 2x120mm fans. I also need to come up with a way to make all the side panels for the rads swing open like cabinet doors, so that I can have access to those areas without having to take things apart everytime I need to get in that area. This build is getting more difficult then I anticipated. I was thinking I was just building a big box lol

[Zerocool2024]

I had the same Idea in mind. Though, I have been designing it in Solidworks so I can make sure I can get all the sheet metal/hardware to match up correctly. Lucky for me, I design Helicopters for the "man", and I can get all the sheet metal and hardware I need. Now I just need to get someone to help me bend/cut/weld it to the shape I need it.

Gratz on the new concept of towers :) :thumbsup:

[Herc130]

In Hong Kong and after trying to find the board in Wan Chai computer center and having no luck, was able to find it at Sham Shui Po Golden Computer Shopping cneter in Kowloon. Prices are actually much better to about the same in US e-seller's like newegg, zipzoomfly, mwave, etc, with the added benefit that if something is wrong, you can work through the seller to replace it, but for me, shipping adds a ton, so getting it at location in Hong Kong, even though it's the same price, saves me about $70 us for shipping.

http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/5309/img0790ou4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


http://img243.imageshack.us/img243/4638/img0792se0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Seeing it next to M-ATX boards really helped me to decide I like the ITX FF better for this application. M-ATX might as well be regular ATX. Probably why they are now coming out with the DTX ff. Each board was $1190 HK, which is @$153 US. Only got three, since I had to lug from Kowloon back tothe hotel through the mass transit rail. Probably go to Mongkok and see if the computer center there has it for less, but am thinking it will be the same price if they have it at all. Last time I was in Hong Kong, I had to haggle for prices on everything. Everything was horribly overpriced and you usually start off by halfing whatever the listed price was, but for these mobo's, they did not budge and I already know what the US sellers price em at and it's pretty much the same. $150 per mobo, $60 for cpu, $60 for ram, $60 for hdd, $80 for TFT module and $30 for psu. OS is free thanks to technet. Could save $100 us going with the atom 330 board, but screw it, this board should run it great.

[Herc130]

Been back home for about 4 days now and deploying again tomorrow, so didn't really plan to do anything with any of the hardware I got. However, it occured to me that maybe the intergrated graphics might not be powerful enough for some graphically intensive situations I may need for two of my box accounts, so I decided to slap one together temporarily and see how well it runs Everquest.

http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/5320/img0876df5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Added a mouse on top of the PSU for size comparison

http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/1443/img0878nv8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img114.imageshack.us/img114/7080/img0880vz8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

It's the J&W mobo with 780G chipset and HD3200 IGP. The CPU is an AMD BE-2400 45w, 4 gigs of GSkill DDR2 800 notebook ram, a coolermaster cpu cooler that is bigger then I thought it'd be (it works fine with it, but is taller then I thought and will make me make a bigger case) 240w HEC PSU 75%+ efficiency.

I loaded Vista 64 Premium on it and patched it to SP1. Then loaded Everquest and patched it all up. Let me say I am very impressed with how well it runs Everquest. I left EQ in default settings which had everything set to near max. These settings are higher then what I use in my box accounts with my full size ATX computers running 8500GT video cards and yet, the ITX builds are running EQ just as well with the higher settings. I ran around small areas (guild lobby) with just under 200 people. When I had particle effects set to max in everything, (which makes it so every spell or glowy sparky weapons near me will cause a bunch of graphically intense light shows that bogs you down) there was lag while running around the near 200 people, but even my Maximus II 8500cpu, 8800gtx 8gb ram main comp. boggs down in those situations. Once I turned particle effects off, there was practically no lag while running around the guild lobby....still filled with near 200 people.

I am truley amazed by this mobo and its IGP. I don't see a reason to get a discrete video card, even for my accounts that are sometimes brought to raids. Although I will make sure the case I buy has a slot to accomadate the vid card, because these builds should be able to play even new MMO's as boxxed accounts. Everquest and probably WoW, it has no problems with at all. I am running around areas that bogs down my full atx 8500GT computers with no problems. For the most part everything runs very smooth.


For cases, I think I will have to build my own, which will end up costing more then buying one that is almost built the way I want ($55). Getting the power switch, reset switch, couple USB connectors cost damn near $55. Then add in cost for case material and my time and effort. However, that $55 case makes space for stuff I don't need at the cost of craming the PSU right over the mobo which no doubt will make things run hot. I can maybe mod it to what I want, will be thinking on that while deployed. If I make my own, the case will be @7"x7"x7" with the mobo sitting horizonatally over the PSU and HDD and maybe a slim DVD burner ( could just use USB drives when needed and not worry about space for a DVD drive at all)

Also, will probably go XP Pro 32 for 4 of the builds and XP MCE or Vista 64 Ultimate for 2. Or maybe all 6 with Vista 64 Ultimate and I just disable UAC for them all. That's about the only thing that still gives me problems with Vista for my box accounts.

Just remembered the mobo has 128mb sideport memory..which when switched on makes it so the intergrated video has it's very own memory and doesn't have to share with anything else. Essentially making it so the HD3200 "intergrated" video on the northbridge behaves as if it were a discrete video card.