I didn't speak with a GM and...

[ncliff]

I got this in my email, I was leveling 2 toons a druid and a priest with keyclone, this email was sent to my druid account. All I've used in combination with WoW is keyclone and then the addon "QuestHelper" and nothing else.

* * * NOTICE OF FINAL WARNING * * *

Account Name: ---
Account Action: 72 Hour suspension
Offense: Violation of Exploitation and Client/Server Manipulation Policy - Unapproved Third Party Software

Details: Found to be using unapproved third party software that gave the player an unfair advantage over other World of Warcraft players.

The actions detailed above have been deemed inappropriate for World of Warcraft by the In-Game Support staff of Blizzard Entertainment. Based on a review of the information presented, this World of Warcraft account has been given a final warning and a 72 hour account suspension, in addition to any previous warnings issued. Until the suspension has been lifted, the account will not be accessible. Please note that Blizzard Entertainment will be unable to provide further information regarding the specific time an account will become accessible again. Be aware that any additional inappropriate actions may result in the permanent closure of the account.

Thank you for respecting our position on this matter.

Any disputes or questions concerning this account action can only be addressed by Account Administration. To learn more about how Account Administration is able to assist you, please visit us at http://us.blizzard.com/support/article/21505.

Please visit the World of Warcraft Policies and Terms of Use Agreement: (http://www.blizzard.com/support/wowgm/?id=agm01712p) and (http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/termsofuse.shtml) for further information.

Regards,

Nalost
Account Administration
Blizzard Entertainment
www.WorldOfWarcraft.com ('http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/')

[puppychow]

Were either of the accounts trial accounts? Are you absolutely sure you aren't running anything like Innerspace, Glider, AutoIT, any anti-AFK programs, etc?

[Kaynin]

Next to using keyclone, were you using the G15 keyboard or any other software that simulates keypresses? Or did you really solely use direct keycloning of all your keypresses?

If you are certain you absolutely didn't do anything wrong, send them an email to have it looked into and the final warning removed as it was unjustified. However, I find it a bit dodgy and would almost think there's something else going on here.

But I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. :P

[ncliff]

The account suspended was brand new, Its been live for 2 months~ but I havn't played it in a few weeks because of school, last time I used anything like autoit was pre-bc(and it wasnt on these accounts). I was doing straight passthroughs using keyclone. I figure its some sort of mistake, I was just kinda wondering if anyone else had ever been warned like this with no "priors". I've seen all the posts/ss's of GM's saying everything is cool so long as you are personally there pressing those commands so I figure I'll get out of it but I was confused by the fact that I was warned out of no where.

[Fleecy]

As others will also say, it's highly unlikely Keyclone is the cause of this warning. If Keyclone was a fault hundreds of people would also be receiving these e-mails. The best thing you can do is contact them and explain the situation and the software you've been using. Unfortunately, getting any real information out of them for this type of report is like pulling teeth.

[moog]

Is that genuine?

Do they really only give a 72h suspension and "final warning" for "Violation of Exploitation and Client/Server Manipulation Policy - Unapproved Third Party Software".

That sort of violation sounds like an instant permaban to me... sure it's not someone winding you up?

[Ughmahedhurtz]

Based on past experience, I give this 25:1 odds that there's more to this story than meets the eye. That, or the GM's a nub and hasn't been briefed in on multiboxing. ;)

[elsegundo]

oh goody!!! time to reformat that hard drive!!

[Fleecy]

I'm still waiting for a reply from the original poster, I'm dying to see how the show finishes. :)

[Dopledin]

that happened other than Keyclone being the problem. I haven't been boxing as long as a lot of people on this board, so I followed some recommended procedures when I started:

1. Notified GMs that I was going to box some acounts on Mal' Ganis, Burning Blade, and Emerald Dream.

2. Notified them that I was using Keyclone as my controller.

To date (about 9 months) I've been reported (allegedly) a gazillion times and never received any suspension or warning from the GMs. Well except the one YESTERDAY about one of my character names being not so good and to please change it on your next login as your character is being booted right now while you are defending Halaa. Luckily it was on my hunter crew and it didn't take much to fix the macros.

My vote goes with Ughmahedhurtz ('http://www.dual-boxing.com/forums/index.php?page=User&userID=843') on the GM that didn't get the memo. :thumbup:



Peace

[Fizzler]

Boxing with Keyclone is so prevalent that I am leery even to assume that the GM is a nub. I would be more apt to believe there is more to this story.

This statement from the OP sets off the spidey senses.
last time I used anything like autoit was pre-bc(and it wasnt on these accounts).

[Kaynin]

If you automated gameplay on your PC, and play other accounts from that same PC, blizzard is entitled to susped whatever active account without warning if they feel the need.

If you've used automated gameplay in the past and Blizzard 'tagged' your IP so to speak, it might be so that this suspension is still from the times you used autoit. In which case, as long as you stay straight, you shouldn't run into problems in the future.

Still, I'd email accountreview and ask for some clarification if you aren't sure what you did wrong. Either way, keyclone itself isn't wrong.

[Prepared]

Boxing with Keyclone is so prevalent that I am leery even to assume that the GM is a nub. I would be more apt to believe there is more to this story.

This statement from the OP sets off the spidey senses.
last time I used anything like autoit was pre-bc(and it wasnt on these accounts).


/agreed That definitely looks suspicious. What is autoit?

[Kaynin]

9/10 people who have reported being suspended for multiboxing were proven to be suspended for other things. Such as, but not limited by: account sharing, automation. 1/10 people who have reported being suspended had their suspensions retracted upon further review, as they were wrongfully suspended.

I've yet to hear about a clear case of someone being banned for multiboxing. It simply isn't going to happen. :P

[shaeman]

Is autoit still installed on your pc - and loaded at startup.

It might be that warden is detecting that.

Then again I always look at the 1st post being a "keyclone got me banned/suspended" type of post with suspicion.

[RobinGBrown]

AFAIK just having AutoIt on your PC won't get you banned/suspended, it's a legit program thats handy for doing certain things, and if you're a Visual Basic coder like me it's really easy to use.

Doesn't mean the OP wasn't using it in an unauthorised manner though.

Lots of people like to point the blame at the latest thing they've done rather than look at their past behaviour.

[Notes]

I say this is fake and just made to feed all the haters in active multibox topics that are going on atm on blizz forums, so people can link here and say "look teh cheatzorzz are now getting banned for using ze keyclones!! OMG see it is cheats!!! unfair!!!"...

So, it's from someone trying to be funny or just a hater who's gonna post this link on some forum. 'Real' multiboxers know better and stay miles away from illigal stuff(I do I don't mind telling you) and 99% of the time they know their systems, what is running and what not.

[zanthor]

/agreed That definitely looks suspicious. What is autoit? AutoIT is a scripting program that AutoHotKey was based off of. If you can do it with a keyboard and mouse, you can do it with AutoIT and most likely if you can do it with AutoIT you can do the same with AutoHotKey. To give you an idea, we utilize AutoIT at work to launch 12 virtial machines and start a series of legacy applications, verify they are working by reading screen contents and report any failures back to our help desk.

Other uses are much more nefarious in the world of gaming.

[Suribusi]

Were either of the accounts trial accounts? Are you absolutely sure you aren't running anything like Innerspace, Glider, AutoIT, any anti-AFK programs, etc?

Nothing wrong with Innerspace. It's the best thing for multiboxing bar none, and has been out for 3-4 years. I use it on my main to raid 4 days a week, and to play my multibox crew.
Take a peek ('http://www.lavishsoft.com/joomla/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=22&Itemid=34')

-S

[Sajuuk]

The issue with innerspace is that it can be (and has been) used to automate actions, so blizzard doesn't allow it across the board.

Let's not forget that innerspace and similar applications try to hide themselves from Warden.

[Suribusi]

Let's not forget that innerspace and similar applications try to hide themselves from Warden.
I'm affraid that is not correct my friend. Innerspace does not hide itself from Warden at all as there is nothing to hide. And as I have stated I use Innerspace to play single and multiple characters with no issues.


The issue with innerspace is that it can be (and has been) used to automate actions, so blizzard doesn't allow it across the board.
I would be curious to where you get your information from, it would be something I would be interested in reading. Innerspace in fact "IS" allowed across the board, which I am clearly proof of. You must be getting confused with an extension(s) created for Innerspace that provide the capabilites you are speaking of. It is the extension in this case that would possibly get you in trouble. Similar to how you can write programs on Windows that when used get you in trouble with the police, but it would be false to say "Windows can be (and has been) used to automate actions, so the police doesn't allow it across the board".

I hope that helps clear things up for you :thumbsup:

-S

[ncliff]

Well so far I still havn't heard back from wow account administration. I was checking and i found that the program I'd used back in the honor grind days was actually "Auto Mouse Clicker" not AutoIT, but again I haven't used that in over a year easily and also, it was never used on my new accounts.

[glo]

Let's not forget that innerspace and similar applications try to hide themselves from Warden.
I'm affraid that is not correct my friend. Innerspace does not hide itself from Warden at all as there is nothing to hide. And as I have stated I use Innerspace to play single and multiple characters with no issues.


The issue with innerspace is that it can be (and has been) used to automate actions, so blizzard doesn't allow it across the board.
I would be curious to where you get your information from, it would be something I would be interested in reading. Innerspace in fact "IS" allowed across the board, which I am clearly proof of. You must be getting confused with an extension(s) created for Innerspace that provide the capabilites you are speaking of. It is the extension in this case that would possibly get you in trouble. Similar to how you can write programs on Windows that when used get you in trouble with the police, but it would be false to say "Windows can be (and has been) used to automate actions, so the police doesn't allow it across the board".

I hope that helps clear things up for you :thumbsup:

-S

Not too long ago there was a large ban wave that included Innerspace users. The fact you are using it and haven't been banned doesn't mean much, the last ban they collected data for several months before doing a huge ban wave. Innerspace DOES hide from warden and it DOES attempt to detect warden updates so it can unload itself in an attempt to keep the user from being banned. In the last ban wave blizzard tricked many people by not updating warden at all but instead built a secret detection and logging method into the core wow client itself.

I understand you thought you were being witty with your post and you are free to do as you wish but please don't speak as an authority when it comes to activities that could get others banned.

[Lax]

Let's not forget that innerspace and similar applications try to hide themselves from Warden.
I'm affraid that is not correct my friend. Innerspace does not hide itself from Warden at all as there is nothing to hide. And as I have stated I use Innerspace to play single and multiple characters with no issues.


The issue with innerspace is that it can be (and has been) used to automate actions, so blizzard doesn't allow it across the board.
I would be curious to where you get your information from, it would be something I would be interested in reading. Innerspace in fact "IS" allowed across the board, which I am clearly proof of. You must be getting confused with an extension(s) created for Innerspace that provide the capabilites you are speaking of. It is the extension in this case that would possibly get you in trouble. Similar to how you can write programs on Windows that when used get you in trouble with the police, but it would be false to say "Windows can be (and has been) used to automate actions, so the police doesn't allow it across the board".

I hope that helps clear things up for you :thumbsup:

-S

Not too long ago there was a large ban wave that included Innerspace users. The fact you are using it and haven't been banned doesn't mean much, the last ban they collected data for several months before doing a huge ban wave. Innerspace DOES hide from warden and it DOES attempt to detect warden updates so it can unload itself in an attempt to keep the user from being banned. In the last ban wave blizzard tricked many people by not updating warden at all but instead built a secret detection and logging method into the core wow client itself.

I understand you thought you were being witty with your post and you are free to do as you wish but please don't speak as an authority when it comes to activities that could get others banned.Not to hijack the thread that was open for a completely different reason, but please don't speak with authority about software that you don't know much about.

Not too long ago there was a large ban wave that included ISXWoW users, and "months" is a bit of an exaggeration -- it was within weeks of detection being patched in. Inner Space "vanilla" (without ToS-violating extensions such as ISXWarden or ISXWoW) users were not, and are not currently, being banned to the best of my knowledge, from any game. ISXWarden is what Suribusi was talking about that would provide the ability to hide from Warden. ISXWarden is not, and has never been, a part of Inner Space, nor has it ever been promoted or displayed prominently on the web site that Inner Space is available at (though people have brought it up on the forums from time to time). ISXWoW additionally provides capabilities that people use for botting. The previous statement about ISXWarden not being part of Inner Space is also true for ISXWoW.

Inner Space contains no World of Warcraft-specific or Warden-specific functionality, beyond automatically loading ISXWarden if it is present. I realize and accept that you're not going to take my word or another random poster's word that using Inner Space without extensions used for cheating is safe, but any notion that Inner Space or any other product available from the company that makes it (note that I'm not advertising my company in my post) contains Warden-related functionality is patently false.

With that said, I hope you will find in the coming months that it will go without saying that Inner Space is safe to use with World of Warcraft as long as you are not using ISXWarden and/or ISXWoW or other cheats, and that the sort of misinformation that comes up here will simply cease.

Carry on. :)

[glo]

I won't speak with authority on your program. The fact is your program was caught up in a ban wave and it may happen again in the future. This is me not speaking with authority on your program, this is my citing historical fact.

I am not even trying to be rude. I realize you created a tool and cannot be held accountable for what others have done with it BUT coming here with the knowledge you have of a previous ban wave and reassuring the forum goers that your product is safe is irresponsible.

Use third party software at your own risk. Use third party software that can and has been used to violate the terms of service of games such as wow causing the user base to be banned as a whole at your own highly elevated risk.

[Basilikos]

Well so far I still havn't heard back from wow account administration. I was checking and i found that the program I'd used back in the honor grind days was actually "Auto Mouse Clicker" not AutoIT, but again I haven't used that in over a year easily and also, it was never used on my new accounts.

Okay, but is it still installed? That can be enough to trigger problems with Warden. Also, is it running? Not that it matters, since if Warden finds evil things on your computer (running or not), it can still get you banned.

Also note that it is really lame that this sort of thing gets posted. We don't need the multiboxing community associated with people that openly admit to having cheated (regardless of their current behavior). This sort of thing never ends well. Please, everyone, use better judgment in the future before posting threads like, "ZOMG! I got t3h b4nnh4mm3r f3r t3h K3yKl0nz!" when you used a cheat in the past.

Also, save yourself the humiliation of publicly identifying yourself as a cheater here (even if you've reformed yourself) since a lot of us take it seriously and will roast you for it.

[Lax]

I'm not sure you read what I had just explained, but your blame is misplaced and the bans you are referring to were not for Inner Space, but for ISXWoW and/or ISXWarden. You are insinuating that those third-party products are part of or enjoined to Inner Space, and they're not. I thought I had made that clear. If someone hacked KeyClone and added functionality to it that caused them to get banned, does that mean that KeyClone is unsafe and would be irresponsible for you or anyone else to suggest that it is safe? I assume your answer is no, so what makes it yes in the case of Inner Space, where someone adds functionality to it that causes them to get banned?

As I said, I do not expect you to take my word for it, but do not tell me that I'm irresponsible when you are coming at me with incorrect information. The ban wave you are referring to was not for Inner Space. There is more to the story that may come to light very soon, but cannot yet be disclosed, so I'm sorry you feel that I am being irresponsible for attempting to correct your misinformation, but as I said, in the coming months it will go without saying.

[glo]

I'm not sure you read what I had just explained, but your blame is misplaced and the bans you are referring to were not for Inner Space, but for ISXWoW and/or ISXWarden. You are insinuating that those third-party products are part of or enjoined to Inner Space, and they're not. I thought I had made that clear. If someone hacked KeyClone and added functionality to it that caused them to get banned, does that mean that KeyClone is unsafe and would be irresponsible for you or anyone else to suggest that it is safe? I assume your answer is no, so what makes it yes in the case of Inner Space, where someone adds functionality to it that causes them to get banned?

As I said, I do not expect you to take my word for it, but do not tell me that I'm irresponsible when you are coming at me with incorrect information. The ban wave you are referring to was not for Inner Space. There is more to the story that may come to light very soon, but cannot yet be disclosed, so I'm sorry you feel that I am being irresponsible for attempting to correct your misinformation, but as I said, in the coming months it will go without saying.

I'm fairly certain that Rob would at least attempt to block said hack that allowed his program to be used to violate the TOS, have you attempted this with your utility?

[thinus]

Inner Space contains no World of Warcraft-specific or Warden-specific functionality, beyond automatically loading ISXWarden if it is present. I realize and accept that you're not going to take my word or another random poster's word that using Inner Space without extensions used for cheating is safe, but any notion that Inner Space or any other product available from the company that makes it (note that I'm not advertising my company in my post) contains Warden-related functionality is patently false.

With that said, I hope you will find in the coming months that it will go without saying that Inner Space is safe to use with World of Warcraft as long as you are not using ISXWarden and/or ISXWoW or other cheats, and that the sort of misinformation that comes up here will simply cease.

Carry on. :)

Are you the "real" Lax? And with the real Lax I mean the one that writes Innerspace and also writes the warden detection bypassing mods?

Let me get this straight, a guy who has been writing botting tools for years come on these forums and try to convince us that Innerspace, his product, is squeeky clean and that it does not natively support botting, no, you need to use a script, but as fate would have it, you write and sell the scripts too. Pardon me for not trusting you behind me when I bend over to pick up the soap.

On your main page you mention "automating World of Warcraft" twice. This is on the Innerspace website, not a mod development site. Your comments about KeyClone is also way of base. KeyClone does not automate anything, nor does it allow you to automate via scripts, plugins, addons or any other protected memory modifications. Innerspace was clearly written with this specific purpose in mind.

Personally I don't think the real Lax would make such retarded patently false arguments. Unless for some reason you are trying to muscle in on KeyClone's key broadcasting market. Maybe the recent ruling against the "software of which we do not speak" has your customer base worried...? Sales down? Trying to clean up your act before you get sued? Cry me a river.


I STRONGLY ADVISE AGAINST USING INNERSPACE EVER. DON'T EVEN DOWNLOAD ANYTHING TO DO WITH IT. Don't take my word for it, Google it. Go read the website, look at Lax's history and how long he has been writing automation tools for games. Botting ruins games, take a stand against the cheaters, don't get in bed with the enemy.

EDIT: I highly doubt this is the real Lax, probably just some forum troll looking for something to do while his Tauren is standing on a BG NPC or mailbox.

[Lax]

Inner Space contains no World of Warcraft-specific or Warden-specific functionality, beyond automatically loading ISXWarden if it is present. I realize and accept that you're not going to take my word or another random poster's word that using Inner Space without extensions used for cheating is safe, but any notion that Inner Space or any other product available from the company that makes it (note that I'm not advertising my company in my post) contains Warden-related functionality is patently false.

With that said, I hope you will find in the coming months that it will go without saying that Inner Space is safe to use with World of Warcraft as long as you are not using ISXWarden and/or ISXWoW or other cheats, and that the sort of misinformation that comes up here will simply cease.

Carry on. :)

Are you the "real" Lax? And with the real Lax I mean the one that writes Innerspace and also writes the warden detection bypassing mods?

Let me get this straight, a guy who has been writing botting tools for years come on these forums and try to convince us that Innerspace, his product, is squeeky clean and that it does not natively support botting, no, you need to use a script, but as fate would have it, you write and sell the scripts too. Pardon me for not trusting you behind me when I bend over to pick up the soap.

On your main page you mention "automating World of Warcraft" twice. This is on the Innerspace website, not a mod development site. Your comments about KeyClone is also way of base. KeyClone does not automate anything, nor does it allow you to automate via scripts, plugins, addons or any other protected memory modifications. Innerspace was clearly written with this specific purpose in mind.

Personally I don't think the real Lax would make such retarded patently false arguments. Unless for some reason you are trying to muscle in on KeyClone's key broadcasting market. Maybe the recent ruling against the "software of which we do not speak" has your customer base worried...? Sales down? Trying to clean up your act before you get sued? Cry me a river.


I STRONGLY ADVISE AGAINST USING INNERSPACE EVER. DON'T EVEN DOWNLOAD ANYTHING TO DO WITH IT. Don't take my word for it, Google it. Go read the website, look at Lax's history and how long he has been writing automation tools for games. Botting ruins games, take a stand against the cheaters, don't get in bed with the enemy.

EDIT: I highly doubt this is the real Lax, probably just some forum troll looking for something to do while his Tauren is standing on a BG NPC or mailbox.I'm sorry, but your perception does not make reality. And your perception is flawed. Reality Distortion Field anyone?

Inner Space is squeaky clean. There is no legal issues with Inner Space, and the act of using Inner Space alone does not violate the Terms of Service in World of Warcraft. I don't know where you got the idea that I "write and sell the scripts", but I don't, and never have. I also don't know where you are seeing "automating World of Warcraft" particularly twice -- it sure doesn't sound like my site. The web site recommends you do NOT automate World of Warcraft:
"While automation is often a fun and useful feature, many games (including World of Warcraft) prohibit automation. Be sure to familiarize yourself with the rules of the game in order to avoid getting banned from your favorite game."

Inner Space's original purpose was to replace WinEQ 2, not "to bot World of Warcraft". However, in doing so, a scripting engine was added. And then extensibility was added, and people started using it for "nefarious" purposes World of Warcraft and other games, but people have also been using Inner Space for entirely good purposes (e.g. in-game Ventrilo controls). Inner Space will allow you to do anything you want to do with it. Why would I want to "muscle in on" KeyClone's key broadcasting market? Those capabilities have been available and unchanged in Inner Space for several years, KeyClone is still trying to catch up with Inner Space. Oddly, I get people coming to my site for the "Lock Foreground" feature, directed from here, thinking that they need multiple programs to multi-box with EQ2 for example. They dont.

I'm really confused as to why you guys are so adamant about arguing over the safety of using Inner Space. I already said, twice now, that I don't expect you to take my word for it. But I guess my mistake was in not expecting people to cry about me saying that. You go ahead and preach about what you believe about Inner Space, tell everyone not to use it because it is so evil and some people use it for botting, but don't ask me for any favors when your world is flipped upside down. I would love to explain what I know and can't disclose that you don't know and wouldn't believe even if you heard it, but as I have suggested in my previous posts, it will become apparent in the coming months. You can take my word on that, you don't need to keep responding and telling me that you perceive Inner Space as being horrible to use, I already know that, I'm not blind, I can see the hatred all over the place here.

Here I am gently presenting reality and you all want to tell me these things you think I do or Inner Space does that simply aren't true? Like Glo saying that Inner Space has Warden functionality built in, or that I write and sell scripts for World of Warcraft? That's exactly the sort of misinformation that I am trying to correct. You can think it's evil if you want, but don't think it's evil for the wrong reasons. If you're going to argue with the author, at least come prepared... Expecting another reply saying that Inner Space is unsafe and should never be used blah blah blah, but that's entirely beside the point of my posts, and I will reiterate one last time that I don't expect you to take my word for it, and I fully expect you and everyone else here to have that in your head until a later date when it will go without saying that it's not what you're thinking.

I'm not here to convince you it's safe. I'm here to correct some misinformation about Inner Space, which this thread is contributing to, and to be a part of a community that relies on technologies that I helped pioneer and have been innovating in for a long time. Who do you think people come to when they have a question related to developing these things (e.g. Octopus), and where do you think these other developers got ideas for features like Picture-in-Picture?

[puppychow]

Lax is the author of Innerspace & ISXwarden (up until it got so many people banned that its been basically discontinued) so its very disingenious to claim that Innerspace is squeeky clean. ISXWow was done by another set of people. ISXWow provided a set of functions for botters to access WoW internals; ISXWarden hid ISXWow and Innerspace from Warden.

There was a banwave that caught just Innerspace users, it happened the same time when Blizzard banned users who were running WoW under Linux. They reversed most of these bans if the user emailed account-admin, but they never explicity came out and said Innerspace is ok.

Go ahead and post on the WoW customer support forums and ask if WinEQ2/Innerspace is ok, you will not get a positive answer. They have posted that Keyclone is currently ok, as long as its not used to automate WoW.

Innerspace is a very nice and powerful product, but it was marketed originally as a bot platform for Windows games. Lax lost most of his WoW customers over the last few months as all got banned by Blizzard, repeatedly. Now he is trying to repurpose Innerspace as a multibox platform (new web page I see came up today), but I'd personally be careful of using it given its past history.

FWIW I have used Innerspace in the past, have a Keyclone license, and currently use Octopus. All are nice and powerful products, but you are running huge risks with your account if you decide to use Innerspace.

[Wilbur]

To clear things up.

Innerspace by itself has never got anyone banned.

Extensions have.

I for one am very glad that people are starting to use Innerspace for Multiboxing, as I'm sure I said *last year* that it would be an excellent tool to have in our 'arsenals' ;-)

/me waves at Lax. Good to see you here :-D

[Wilbur]

Additionally, I would like to see Puppychow's evidence of vanilla Innerspace getting people banned as I believe this to be total bullshit that he 'heard' on the grapevine.

[puppychow]

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=442898670&sid=1

want more?

[Lax]

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=442898670&sid=1

want more?The bans for WinEQ 2 were reversed, and World of Warcraft subscribers were reimbursed 2 days on their subscription for their troubles. There have been no such bans since 2006. Again, there is more to this story that I would tell you, but cannot yet be disclosed and you wouldn't believe it if I told you anyway.

WinEQ 2 is not Inner Space, and Inner Space was never marketed as a botting program, it has always been marketed as a neutral platform for third-party in-game development. Again, your perception does not make reality. Being told by some guy on the intarweb that Inner Space is a botting program does not equal "Inner Space is marketed as a botting program", and it does not make it the least bit true.

ISXWarden is not and has never been a part of Inner Space, and it has never been a product of the company that sells Inner Space, and it has never been available on the web site. There is no such link between Inner Space and ISXWarden, and ISXWarden is not required in order to use Inner Space with World of Warcraft. It is not disingenuous to say that Inner Space is squeaky clean, because it is. Using Inner Space vanilla is no more a violation of the Terms of Service than using Cedega, or WinEQ 2 for that matter. Unlike "that software which you shall not speak of" (which obviously violates the ToS), Blizzard could not possibly shut down Inner Space or the company that makes it. But yes, if they wanted to, they absolutely could ban for it, just like they could ban for KeyClone tomorrow if they wanted to.

If you ask on the World of Warcraft forums about ANY software the canned response is to never use ANY third-party software as it puts you at risk of getting banned. Ultimately is not up to you, nor the GMs you speak to in game, nor community MVPs or GMs on the forums, which software puts you at risk. Additionally, many of them know as little about the various available software as people on these forums, so they typically won't give you anything other than a canned response, because they generally have no idea how various software works and whether it violates the Terms of Service. It's not about the end, it's about the means to the end. The responses I'm reading from the GMs about "you need to be at the keys playing" apply just as equally to Inner Space as they do to KeyClone, Octopus, etc.

[Suribusi]

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=442898670&sid=1

want more?

That thread is very old news, and supports Lax's point, not yours. Those people had their accounts restored, just like in the case of wine/linux users. They made an adjustment to warden that flagged more than what they were looking for, so they restored the affected accounts.
I was one of them, if they actually meant to ban me for using innerspace/wineq2 I don't see why they gave me a credit in play time when they restored my account.


but you are running huge risks with your account if you decide to use Innerspace.
You see the video I linked? It was made of clips from me multiboxing using Innerspace PRIOR to burning crusade (I gave them my permission). I used it then and I still use it now. I run 0 risk running innerspace "vanilla".

-S

[thinus]

Inner Space contains no World of Warcraft-specific or Warden-specific functionality, beyond automatically loading ISXWarden if it is present. I realize and accept that you're not going to take my word or another random poster's word that using Inner Space without extensions used for cheating is safe, but any notion that Inner Space or any other product available from the company that makes it (note that I'm not advertising my company in my post) contains Warden-related functionality is patently false.

With that said, I hope you will find in the coming months that it will go without saying that Inner Space is safe to use with World of Warcraft as long as you are not using ISXWarden and/or ISXWoW or other cheats, and that the sort of misinformation that comes up here will simply cease.

Carry on. :)

Are you the "real" Lax? And with the real Lax I mean the one that writes Innerspace and also writes the warden detection bypassing mods?

Let me get this straight, a guy who has been writing botting tools for years come on these forums and try to convince us that Innerspace, his product, is squeeky clean and that it does not natively support botting, no, you need to use a script, but as fate would have it, you write and sell the scripts too. Pardon me for not trusting you behind me when I bend over to pick up the soap.

On your main page you mention "automating World of Warcraft" twice. This is on the Innerspace website, not a mod development site. Your comments about KeyClone is also way of base. KeyClone does not automate anything, nor does it allow you to automate via scripts, plugins, addons or any other protected memory modifications. Innerspace was clearly written with this specific purpose in mind.

Personally I don't think the real Lax would make such retarded patently false arguments. Unless for some reason you are trying to muscle in on KeyClone's key broadcasting market. Maybe the recent ruling against the "software of which we do not speak" has your customer base worried...? Sales down? Trying to clean up your act before you get sued? Cry me a river.


I STRONGLY ADVISE AGAINST USING INNERSPACE EVER. DON'T EVEN DOWNLOAD ANYTHING TO DO WITH IT. Don't take my word for it, Google it. Go read the website, look at Lax's history and how long he has been writing automation tools for games. Botting ruins games, take a stand against the cheaters, don't get in bed with the enemy.

EDIT: I highly doubt this is the real Lax, probably just some forum troll looking for something to do while his Tauren is standing on a BG NPC or mailbox.I'm sorry, but your perception does not make reality. And your perception is flawed. Reality Distortion Field anyone?

Inner Space is squeaky clean. There is no legal issues with Inner Space, and the act of using Inner Space alone does not violate the Terms of Service in World of Warcraft. I don't know where you got the idea that I "write and sell the scripts", but I don't, and never have. I also don't know where you are seeing "automating World of Warcraft" particularly twice -- it sure doesn't sound like my site. The web site recommends you do NOT automate World of Warcraft:
"While automation is often a fun and useful feature, many games (including World of Warcraft) prohibit automation. Be sure to familiarize yourself with the rules of the game in order to avoid getting banned from your favorite game."

Wow, website changes from one day to the next. Suddenly the entire thing looks different. You, sir, are a liar and a cheat.


Inner Space's original purpose was to replace WinEQ 2, not "to bot World of Warcraft". However, in doing so, a scripting engine was added. And then extensibility was added, and people started using it for "nefarious" purposes World of Warcraft and other games, but people have also been using Inner Space for entirely good purposes (e.g. in-game Ventrilo controls). Inner Space will allow you to do anything you want to do with it. Why would I want to "muscle in on" KeyClone's key broadcasting market? Those capabilities have been available and unchanged in Inner Space for several years, KeyClone is still trying to catch up with Inner Space. Oddly, I get people coming to my site for the "Lock Foreground" feature, directed from here, thinking that they need multiple programs to multi-box with EQ2 for example. They dont.

Funny that you wrote scripts that plug in to Innerspace to avoid Warden detection. Why would you do that?


I'm really confused as to why you guys are so adamant about arguing over the safety of using Inner Space. I already said, twice now, that I don't expect you to take my word for it. But I guess my mistake was in not expecting people to cry about me saying that. You go ahead and preach about what you believe about Inner Space, tell everyone not to use it because it is so evil and some people use it for botting, but don't ask me for any favors when your world is flipped upside down. I would love to explain what I know and can't disclose that you don't know and wouldn't believe even if you heard it, but as I have suggested in my previous posts, it will become apparent in the coming months. You can take my word on that, you don't need to keep responding and telling me that you perceive Inner Space as being horrible to use, I already know that, I'm not blind, I can see the hatred all over the place here.

The hatred is not so much for Innerspace as for you. I play games fairly, I don't cheat. People like you make me sick. I will never trust you and therefore never trust your software.


Here I am gently presenting reality and you all want to tell me these things you think I do or Inner Space does that simply aren't true? Like Glo saying that Inner Space has Warden functionality built in, or that I write and sell scripts for World of Warcraft? That's exactly the sort of misinformation that I am trying to correct. You can think it's evil if you want, but don't think it's evil for the wrong reasons. If you're going to argue with the author, at least come prepared... Expecting another reply saying that Inner Space is unsafe and should never be used blah blah blah, but that's entirely beside the point of my posts, and I will reiterate one last time that I don't expect you to take my word for it, and I fully expect you and everyone else here to have that in your head until a later date when it will go without saying that it's not what you're thinking.

Ok, here is a quote from one of the mod sites:


Glider loses its wings
lax [2006.11.15 10:52]

Glider has once again made the case for its customers to not believe in Merc (Merc, feel free to send me an email if you want to license a proven anti-Warden solution that won't require your customers have a Lavish subscription, or of course, feel free to use WardenLink which your customers can have the option of using and protecting your work as long as they have a Lavish subscription). Their forums are packed with posts about everyone being banned

An anti-Warden solution...why would you have that?


I'm not here to convince you it's safe. I'm here to correct some misinformation about Inner Space, which this thread is contributing to, and to be a part of a community that relies on technologies that I helped pioneer and have been innovating in for a long time. Who do you think people come to when they have a question related to developing these things (e.g. Octopus), and where do you think these other developers got ideas for features like Picture-in-Picture?

I, for one, would rather have the community get along without you.

[Lax]

1. The web site has not changed, certainly not in the last 24 hours other than the new post on the front page news. In fact if you looked at anything at all, the new version of the site has been up for over a month now. And even a month ago, I have no idea what page you were looking at. I don't know where you get off calling me a liar and a cheat. All I'm seeing from you is personal attacks (ad hominem fallacy, look it up. in fact, here's a link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem ).

2. "Scripts" to plug into "Innerspace"? ISXWarden was written in early 2006 because my customers were using Inner Space with World of Warcraft, in conjunction with ISXWoW. And those people got banned. I wrote ISXWarden and distributed it for free, completely separate from my company, to help prevent my company's customers from getting banned from the biggest game anywhere.

3. You hate me? Hate me for what? Do you even know what you hate me for, or do you really think that I'm a "bot writer" as you claimed in one of your first posts on dual-boxing.com?
"I really don't see anyone up in arms except maybe the bot writer who wrote the original heavily biased article. Biased as the article was it still touched on very real privacy issues which I happen to partly agree with."
And the funny thing about the article on my blog about Warden, is that the most popular response was that I was complaining because I was going to lose money or something on it. That update to Warden wasn't even aimed at me or ISXWarden. I don't get the heavily biased part either, because it wasn't really an opinion article, it was describing technical details about a software change, and why the change is potentially dangerous. That's like going through http://www.securityfocus.com/vulnerabilities and finding Windows vulnerabilities and claiming that the reports are biased because the person reporting it prefers Linux. And the fact that I wrote ISXWarden isn't exactly a secret or hidden from On Warden readers.

Oh and "Not really, but it is the paranoid that ensures we enjoy the freedom that we do and I don't dismiss them out of hand."

Lastly, I really don't care if you would rather have the community get along without me. You obviously have no clue who I am or what I do, so your opinion on me shouldn't really matter to anyone else either. What have YOU done for the community? Besides spreading your own FUD and lashing out at people who actually do something to help, that is.

[Suribusi]

To clear things up.

Innerspace by itself has never got anyone banned.

Extensions have.

I for one am very glad that people are starting to use Innerspace for Multiboxing, as I'm sure I said *last year* that it would be an excellent tool to have in our 'arsenals' ;-)

/me waves at Lax. Good to see you here :-D

I agree. in my experience it is the advanced multiboxers greatest tool! :)

-S

[Ornate]

Wow, this is seriously Lax? The guy responsible for macroquest, the cheating program that ruined EverQuest?

Just on principle, I don't want to be involved in a community that takes even a neutral stance and gives him the chance to peddle his wares - even the "clean" ones.

And for the own safety of my accounts, I'd rather avoid the scrutiny of blizzard by posting on the same forums that he does. I know everything I'm doing is on the up and up, but I'd rather not have to talk my way out of an overzealous 72 hr ban.

No thanks, peace out.

[glo]

Glider loses its wings
lax [2006.11.15 10:52]

Glider has once again made the case for its customers to not believe in Merc (Merc, feel free to send me an email if you want to license a proven anti-Warden solution that won't require your customers have a Lavish subscription, or of course, feel free to use WardenLink which your customers can have the option of using and protecting your work as long as they have a Lavish subscription). Their forums are packed with posts about everyone being banned

Lax are you claiming this is not a direct quote taken from the ISMODS.com forums which you are the admin of and have in the past used to promote your innerspace utility as a safer alternative to Glider? Further along in this post we come to this gem..


Interestingly, a couple weeks ago Blizzard pushed a new Warden and the Glider community was seemingly oblivious. Meanwhile, our community was well aware of the updates. I was chuckling to myself, sitting there in a parking lot with my laptop, working on updating ISXWarden.


I understand you may be used to dealing with a simpler type like your average botter or wow forum user, this is a slightly different crowd. Coming here claiming innocence and safety for your product was probably the wrong way to go. Perhaps advising that you were trying to reform your program to be a boxing tool that complies with the TOS would have been a better approach.

At this point you will have alienated quite a few future customers and probably a few you already had. I for one wouldn't use your product even if it were free as you seem to think you are smarter then everyone else and there is no telling what tricks you might add that blizz would disapprove of.

[thinus]

1. The web site has not changed, certainly not in the last 24 hours other than the new post on the front page news. In fact if you looked at anything at all, the new version of the site has b8een up for over a month now. And even a month ago, I have no idea what page you were looking at. I don't know where you get off calling me a liar and a cheat. All I'm seeing from you is personal attacks (ad hominem fallacy, look it up. in fact, here's a link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem ).

I am not the only one that saw the other site. I will be doing a complete sweep of my system however cause it looks suspiciously like some phishing might have been going on. I am perfectly aware what an ad hominem attack is and the reason I am attacking you is because your integrity is at stake. It is a *trust* issue. I don't trust you and I don't trust your software and will advise anyone that asks me to stay far away from it.


2. "Scripts" to plug into "Innerspace"? ISXWarden was written in early 2006 because my customers were using Inner Space with World of Warcraft, in conjunction with ISXWoW. And those people got banned. I wrote ISXWarden and distributed it for free, completely separate from my company, to help prevent my company's customers from getting banned from the biggest game anywhere.

You developed an addon for your cheating clients so they won't get caught. Well done, have a cookie. And you wonder why I don't trust you.


3. You hate me? Hate me for what? Do you even know what you hate me for, or do you really think that I'm a "bot writer" as you claimed in one of your first posts on dual-boxing.com?
"I really don't see anyone up in arms except maybe the bot writer who wrote the original heavily biased article. Biased as the article was it still touched on very real privacy issues which I happen to partly agree with."

One of my 1st posts? Lol. I think you might be confused. And yes, I think you are tainted by either bot writing or supporting your client base with their bot writing. You already admit that addons are used with Innerspace to cheat and you just wash your hands and pretend that you are completely innocent. Oh no, we are not cheating, but here are all the tools you need. In fact, we will even throw in a bonus to protect you from Warden.


And the funny thing about the article on my blog about Warden, is that the most popular response was that I was complaining because I was going to lose money or something on it. That update to Warden wasn't even aimed at me or ISXWarden. I don't get the heavily biased part either, because it wasn't really an opinion article, it was describing technical details about a software change, and why the change is potentially dangerous. That's like going through http://www.securityfocus.com/vulnerabilities and finding Windows vulnerabilities and claiming that the reports are biased because the person reporting it prefers Linux. And the fact that I wrote ISXWarden isn't exactly a secret or hidden from On Warden readers.

I'm sorry, I couldn't really care less about your blog and don't know who you are replying to here. It seems you are confusing me with someone else yet again.


Oh and "Not really, but it is the paranoid that ensures we enjoy the freedom that we do and I don't dismiss them out of hand."

And this could be taken in the context of some of us being paranoid about you and your motives to ensure we continue to enjoy the freedom of multi-boxing in wow.


Lastly, I really don't care if you would rather have the community get along without me. You obviously have no clue who I am or what I do, so your opinion on me shouldn't really matter to anyone else either. What have YOU done for the community? Besides spreading your own FUD and lashing out at people who actually do something to help, that is.

Why don't you go read my posts. And any help you might even have contributed is clouded by the fact that your tools are used to cheat in online games and circumvent anti-cheating tools. Oh, I am sorry, people have to load a script to do it, even if the script is automatically loaded for them.

Seriously, why did you write the Warden mod? What are you doing here?

[Wilbur]

Wow, this is seriously Lax? The guy responsible for macroquest, the cheating program that ruined EverQuest?

Just on principle, I don't want to be involved in a community that takes even a neutral stance and gives him the chance to peddle his wares - even the "clean" ones.

And for the own safety of my accounts, I'd rather avoid the scrutiny of blizzard by posting on the same forums that he does. I know everything I'm doing is on the up and up, but I'd rather not have to talk my way out of an overzealous 72 hr ban.

No thanks, peace out.

Macroquest was written by Plazmic. Get your facts straight, idiot. Lax and a team of developers coded Macroquest2 when it became apparent that Plazmic was no longer going to continue the project. Its been open source since then. You guys may wish to read the community rules again before posting.

[Lax]

I understand you may be used to dealing with a simpler type like your average botter or wow forum user, this is a slightly different crowd. Coming here claiming innocence and safety for your product was probably the wrong way to go. Perhaps advising that you were trying to reform your program to be a boxing tool that complies with the TOS would have been a better approach.

At this point you will have alienated quite a few future customers and probably a few you already had. I for one wouldn't use your product even if it were free as you seem to think you are smarter then everyone else and there is no telling what tricks you might add that blizz would disapprove of. My program is not being "reformed". Indeed, I posted about ISXWarden on that site, and I even distributed ISXWarden on that site, but you're still trying to claim that Inner Space is something that it's not. The fact that a separate program exists for a given platform does not make the platform a violation of the ToS. No reform was or is necessary for Inner Space to not violate the ToS. You could make the same argument you just made, about Glider being available for Windows, and because of that, Windows is a botting program and violates the World of Warcraft ToS. Time to stop using Windows! You can bash me all you want about "thinking I'm smarter than everyone else" but you're the one making that claim, I am only here to provide correct information where you and others have it incorrect. So I'm sorry you feel that way, you don't need to keep responding, Glo. And yes, partly because of that post I, in fact, made a business deal with Glider to help them with Warden, and I sat in a fun little room with Blizzard's attorney while he asked me questions. I'd say that a pretty good amount of business deals are negotiated because "one party thinks theyre smarter than the other party" (as I suppose you would put it) in some respect. But saying that "there is no telling what tricks I might add that blizz would disapprove of" can be said about anyone. On the other hand, why would I alienate my own customers by "adding tricks that blizz would disapprove of"? That sounds like a pretty poor business decision. It must be frightening in the world you live in.

Thinus:

One of my 1st posts? Lol. I think you might be confused. And yes, I think you are tainted by either bot writing or supporting your client base with their bot writing. You already admit that addons are used with Innerspace to cheat and you just wash your hands and pretend that you are completely innocent. Oh no, we are not cheating, but here are all the tools you need. In fact, we will even throw in a bonus to protect you from Warden. I never said that "I am completely innocent". I said that Inner Space is not a violation of the Terms of Service. Inner Space is a neutral platform, it is open-ended by nature. Anyone could write code for it, and do whatever they want. It's not up to me who can do what when using Inner Space with what game. Even if I tried, it would be just as much a cat and mouse game as Blizzard has with Warden, or anti-virus and anti-spyware distributors have with viruses and spyware. There is no end in sight. I would prefer to spend my time improving and developing the platform rather than trying to lock my own customers out of it.

I'm sorry, I couldn't really care less about your blog and don't know who you are replying to here. It seems you are confusing me with someone else yet again. The posts I quoted you from:
Has Warden Gone Too Far? I think so. Warden = Rootkit ('http://www.dual-boxing.com/forums/index.php?page=Thread&postID=16688&highlight=#post16688')
Has Warden Gone Too Far? I think so. Warden = Rootkit ('http://www.dual-boxing.com/forums/index.php?page=Thread&postID=16523&highlight=#post16523')

How am I confused exactly? Are you not you now? Were you not talking about my blog post with everyone else in the thread?

Why don't you go read my posts. And any help you might even have contributed is clouded by the fact that your tools are used to cheat in online games and circumvent anti-cheating tools. Oh, I am sorry, people have to load a script to do it, even if the script is automatically loaded for them.

Seriously, why did you write the Warden mod? What are you doing here? Yep, I've been making "cheating" tools for over 15 years. I've also been making "non-cheating" tools, and tools that are capable of being used for both. But whether something is considered cheating or not is entirely subjective. In Dark Age of Camelot, people say that multi-boxing at all is cheating. You'd be surprised how many people here have actually "cheated" in World of Warcraft, they will just choose not to mention it because they would get harrassed by people like you, and this is not the community to discuss cheating habits. Personally, I play the old fashioned way. I used to automate text-based MUDs all the time, however, and did in fact sell scripts to other people to automate them, and even sold editors for the MUDs.

You say "the script is automatically loaded for them", but ISXWarden (which is not a script) has never been distributed as part of Inner Space, you would have to learn about it elsewhere, and go elsewhere to get it, and only then would you have any protection from Warden. It would only automatically load if the user had purposefully looked for it, downloaded and installed it.

And no, I don't "wonder why you don't trust me". In fact, when I wrote WinEQ many people didn't initially trust it either. As I said in my previous posts, and I will reiterate now, I'm not here to convince you that Inner Space is safe. You guys keep posting more and more misinformation and random personal attacks against me, and I am attempting to correct the misinformation. I don't care if you think that I am evil or Inner Space is evil.

[Wilbur]

I have previously botted, I have also made and released scripts that allow people to bot. Do you all hate me? :-(

In all honesty, I think if some of you bothered reading a bit about innerspace you'd quite plainly see how powerful a tool it is.

I'd also like all these personal attacks to stop. Now.

[glo]

I have previously botted, I have also made and released scripts that allow people to bot. Do you all hate me? :-(

In all honesty, I think if some of you bothered reading a bit about innerspace you'd quite plainly see how powerful a tool it is.

I'd also like all these personal attacks to stop. Now.

Other then you calling someone an idiot for mistaking a program for it's predecessor which personal attacks are you referring to? I for one was irritated by the fact this guy comes here claiming it's safe to use his 3rd party utility when he can in fact not guarantee this one day to the next just like any other author.

As far as botting goes you do whatever you like but I really don't appreciate it being promoted by a mod on a site that I really like visiting.

Either way take care, I'll be leaving this thread.

[thinus]

I have previously botted, I have also made and released scripts that allow people to bot. Do you all hate me? :-(

In all honesty, I think if some of you bothered reading a bit about innerspace you'd quite plainly see how powerful a tool it is.

I'd also like all these personal attacks to stop. Now.

And I won't buy multi-boxing tools from you either. And if you want people not to make personal attacks perhaps you shouldn't call people idiots like in your previous post. You seem to have some personal connection with this guy and you are not being very objective.

If you want to buy and use software from someone who has been "making "cheating" tools for over 15 years" then be my guest. I am just pointing out the risk.

[Wilbur]

Other then you calling someone an idiot for mistaking a program for it's predecessor which personal attacks are you referring to? I for one was irritated by the fact this guy comes here claiming it's safe to use his 3rd party utility when he can in fact not guarantee this one day to the next just like any other author.

As far as botting goes you do whatever you like but I really don't appreciate it being promoted by a mod on a site that I really like visiting.

Either way take care, I'll be leaving this thread.

At no point have I premoted botting. If you read a little further into what I'm saying is that you can't 100% judge people on past activities. I don't condone/endorse/whatever botting, Its against the EULA, but I do think we should see what Lax (or anyone else who feels like writing Multiboxer extensions) comes up with before we light the pyre.


And I won't buy multi-boxing tools from you either. And if you want people not to make personal attacks perhaps you shouldn't call people idiots like in your previous post. You seem to have some personal connection with this guy and you are not being very objective.

Connection? I've used his software in the past, thats about it. I'd be willing to bet a fair few OTHER respected members of this forum have as well. As far as objective goes, I look at it like this. The software in question, is currently peerless in terms of functionality and flexibility, the only real downside is its association with extensions that are used for developing bots and other nefarious programs/scripts. Do I see this as a problem? Yes, a little bit, but I think it also demonstrates how truely flexible the software is.

Additionally, I reserve the right to call people twats/wankers/tossers/idiots if they don't do their research before posting.


If you want to buy and use software from someone who has been "making "cheating" tools for over 15 years" then be my guest. I am just pointing out the risk.

You think none of the other people who have made Multiboxing software have never made automation software for games? Interesting.

[Lax]

Other then you calling someone an idiot for mistaking a program for it's predecessor which personal attacks are you referring to? I for one was irritated by the fact this guy comes here claiming it's safe to use his 3rd party utility when he can in fact not guarantee this one day to the next just like any other author.
I never said it was any safer than any other utility, you're putting words in my mouth. In fact, I explicitly said they can ban for anything whenever they'd like to, including KeyClone, and including my software. That's all "safe" means, is that people have not been getting banned for it. Therefore, KeyClone is considered safe, and Inner Space is considered safe. Except that this appears to be a religious discussion whereby your religion is right and everyone else's religion is wrong and must be eradicated. What I am claiming is that Inner Space does not violate the Terms of Service. There is a big difference, and I thought I had made that clear in my posts.

[skarlot]

just wanna chip in...
it has to be Lax because, he specifically gives the example of me turning to him for a question... in this case, about DLL hooking and what Warden might do to my program if it starts faking cursor positions, which it (optionlly) does... seeing as a bot program might attempt to do this. I don't think this kind of feature is in violation of the ToS, but as far as Blizzard and Warden goes, I knew that posting on Blizzards forums or directly wouldn't help me, but in this case Lax gave me some info. Yes, I didn't mention that, because I'm just not sure about what Innerspace is all about, whether it has been banned, and also because of perceived (or real) association with botting. it's been on my mind tho, to look into what Innerspace might offer, if I could interface with it with new project I'm doing... just a thought. Useful things would be reading global cool down, spell cool downs, etc 8o

I'm gonna stay out of any ethical debate, it's up to the individual. I don't cheat and wouldn't run ISXWarden, but I don't mind pushing it a bit. Blizzard probably don't care since they don't seem to pay any attention to my bug posts/multiboxing suggestions on their forums. I don't relaly think they see the value/fun of their game at that level and spend too much time with silly movies and card games, unfortunately.

[eqjoe]

Blizztard will not tell you what program will or will not cause your account to be banned or suspended.


I have done some research.

I have two boxed two accounts for over a month using Keyclone. I paid for two copies and I was impressed with the work.
Keyclone+KavoomKM+twoboxtookkit ('http://www.dual-boxing.com/forums/index.php?page=Thread&threadID=9017')
I next checked out HotKeyNet. I have been an active beta tester for Fredie. And again, I am happy to give kudos to the man. HKN is a fine program.

Here I asked this community about IS and was shut down fast. Read it for yourself. InnerSpace is a dirty word around here.
Keyclone+KavoomKM+twoboxtookkit ('http://www.dual-boxing.com/forums/index.php?page=Thread&threadID=9017')

I have spent months testing these three multi-boxing solutions. No bans, no suspensions, no problems.

You can configure HKN to break the EULA just as you can configure InnerSpace to do the same. I firmly believe that it is up to the user to use these tools responsibly.

The problem that I have with some of you guys is that you do not know the difference between a bot, a script, an InnerSpace extension and InnerSpace itself.

Learn the difference before you show the world how damn stupid you are.

-j

[moosejaw]

/pops his head out of a hole

/wave Lax

/avoids large flamethrower

[RobinGBrown]

Someone asked: Are you the "real" Lax? And with the real Lax I mean the one that writes Innerspace and also writes the warden detection bypassing mods?
Don't ask me for any favors when your world is flipped upside down. I would love to explain what I know and can't disclose that you don't know and wouldn't believe even if you heard it, but as I have suggested in my previous posts, it will become apparent in the coming months. You can take my word on that

to be a part of a community that relies on technologies that I helped pioneer and have been innovating in for a long time. Who do you think people come to when they have a question related to developing these things (e.g. Octopus), and where do you think these other developers got ideas for features like Picture-in-Picture?
I've seen posts by Lax before and this is classix Lax egotism so I've no doubt it's the real thing, I wouldn't trust anyone who makes such an overblown issue out of his 'product' regardless of it's thinly sliced 'legality'.

If Lax sold replica guns, tools for converting them to live, and ammo all 'separately' and then claimed that he hasn't got anything to do with how people use them he'd be laughed out of court. Just because Blizzard hasn't kicked his butt into court doesn't mean that what he creates is genuinely and incontrovertibly legal.

[zanthor]

http://www.lavishsoft.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3983&highlight=warcraft+ban
Inner Space can indeed get you banned from various games depending on what you do with it. I don't know of any besides World of Warcraft that have banned for "vanilla" Inner Space. You usually have to be trying to do something they don't like in order to get banned, and use of Inner Space itself doesn't necessarily meet that criteria.

http://www.lavishsoft.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3969&highlight=warcraft+ban
eqJoe going off about Blizzard being stupid for banning for vanilla IS.

Since July 2007...
http://www.lavishsoft.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3410&highlight=warcraft+ban
Inner Space has a much higher chance of banning, with or without ISXWoW. Due to recent aggression from Blizzard, Inner Space will not allow you to run WoW without having ISXWarden to protect you from detection. There is no public stance on this from Blizzard, but I do believe that while they frown upon usage of Inner Space itself, they have generally not banned for it alone -- they certainly COULD if they wanted to. When ISXWoW is in the picture, there is no question whether it is bannable or not

All said and done, IS wont run WOW Vanilla. It REQUIRES running an extension that hides it from Warden...

So, it sounds to me like you can't run WOW using IS Vanilla, and haven't been able to for 1.5 years now... and I'd say if you NEED to run something to HIDE IS from WoW, then you probably shouldn't be running it...

[Lax]

http://www.lavishsoft.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3983&highlight=warcraft+ban
Inner Space can indeed get you banned from various games depending on what you do with it. I don't know of any besides World of Warcraft that have banned for "vanilla" Inner Space. You usually have to be trying to do something they don't like in order to get banned, and use of Inner Space itself doesn't necessarily meet that criteria.

http://www.lavishsoft.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3969&highlight=warcraft+ban
eqJoe going off about Blizzard being stupid for banning for vanilla IS.

Since July 2007...
http://www.lavishsoft.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3410&highlight=warcraft+ban
Inner Space has a much higher chance of banning, with or without ISXWoW. Due to recent aggression from Blizzard, Inner Space will not allow you to run WoW without having ISXWarden to protect you from detection. There is no public stance on this from Blizzard, but I do believe that while they frown upon usage of Inner Space itself, they have generally not banned for it alone -- they certainly COULD if they wanted to. When ISXWoW is in the picture, there is no question whether it is bannable or not

All said and done, IS wont run WOW Vanilla. It REQUIRES running an extension that hides it from Warden...

So, it sounds to me like you can't run WOW using IS Vanilla, and haven't been able to for 1.5 years now... and I'd say if you NEED to run something to HIDE IS from WoW, then you probably shouldn't be running it...I got your PM but to clear this up for everyone else: Inner Space does not require ISXWarden, or my site would not be promoting IS for Multi-boxing, particularly without informing the readers that another tool is required and they would have to go elsewhere to get it. As I've explained in this thread several times, ISXWarden will automatically load if the user had gone out on their own, found and downloaded and installed it. Otherwise, ISXWarden is not required, does not come with Inner Space, and will not get loaded, etc.

The bans referred to are not relevant to the state of Inner Space. The point is that if you're not trying to hide Inner Space with ISXWarden, you obviously have nothing to hide. All I can do is reiterate what other people like Suribusi and eqjoe are saying: Inner Space vanilla is not resulting in bans and both report using it for months. On the other hand, if you were to try to use ISXWoW, you would get banned within 20 minutes from that I'm told.

RobinGBrown:
I've seen posts by Lax before and this is classix Lax egotism so I've no doubt it's the real thing, I wouldn't trust anyone who makes such an overblown issue out of his 'product' regardless of it's thinly sliced 'legality'.

If Lax sold replica guns, tools for converting them to live, and ammo all 'separately' and then claimed that he hasn't got anything to do with how people use them he'd be laughed out of court. Just because Blizzard hasn't kicked his butt into court doesn't mean that what he creates is genuinely and incontrovertibly legal. Classic egotism? I'm sharing factual information and providing reasoning, and when someone responds and says that I'm claiming it's completely safe, and I respond and say that's not what I said, I said that the level of safety will become apparent in the coming months, that is your basis for calling me egotistical? The person I was replying to thought I said it's safer than the other available solutions.

And I don't understand saying that I'm "mak such an overblown issue", I was only trying to correct the misinformation that was here on this thread, it's other posters making it "overblown" (not to mention the overzealous guy that says he wont post on the forum because he thinks that Blizzard will overzealously ban people for posting on forums where I post).

And you're missing the point with your analogy of me "Selling guns, tools for converting them, and ammo". I personally take the blame for ISXWarden. Inner Space is owned by a company. Blizzard could block ISXWarden and hold me personally liable, but that has no bearing on Inner Space itself, and ISXWarden [i]existing has no bearing on whether Inner Space violates the Terms of Service. If Blizzard were to take action, it would not involve Inner Space itself. I have had these kinds of conversations with my legal counsel, and I would really trust their opinion long before yours, sorry (call me egotistical for listening to my lawyer please <3 ). My ISXWarden is also not being distributed currently in the first place, so even if the general public wanted to cheat, they would have to find someone willing to give them an ISXWarden that was written by someone else entirely, and good luck finding that.

[zanthor]

I got your PM but to clear this up for everyone else: Inner Space does not require ISXWarden, or my site would not be promoting IS for Multi-boxing, particularly without informing the readers that another tool is required and they would have to go elsewhere to get it. As I've explained in this thread several times, ISXWarden will automatically load if the user had gone out on their own, found and downloaded and installed it. Otherwise, ISXWarden is not required, does not come with Inner Space, and will not get loaded, etc.

The bans referred to are not relevant to the state of Inner Space. The point is that if you're not trying to hide Inner Space with ISXWarden, you obviously have nothing to hide. All I can do is reiterate what other people like Suribusi and eqjoe are saying: Inner Space vanilla is not resulting in bans and both report using it for months. On the other hand, if you were to try to use ISXWoW, you would get banned within 20 minutes from that I'm told.Thanks for the clarification, I was just about to link you what I had found per your e-mail request and found you found what I found... these forums are running like dog squeeze recently...

[ncliff]

lol, so I guess it went off topic a little.

I got access tor my account back, no real explanation except they made me change my password cause they said my account was not secure. So I guess someone else got on my account and was using some sort of automated script for something.

Anyways, you guys have fun talking about innerspace :) I'm back to leveling

[Fleecy]

Congratulations ncliff, nice to hear the problem has been resolved. :)

[Sirmabus]

Hi all,

My 50 cents in this interesting thread..
Hope I don't piss you off again Lax. I don't really care, but FYI it isn't my aim to do so. I'm a straight shooter..

Your system DOES use stealth you know. Your system injects several DLLs in a target process.
I never looked in detail but I think you are de-linking the modules, or just doing custom mapping to avoid having them on processes list to begin with.
And I think you are messing with the headers to hide from Walks with VirtualQuery() et al.

Anyhow maybe this is a problem. This is a third party software either modifing, or adding something in it's space.
But then again, so are these other programs that are doing the screen splits, PIP, etc. (like "Maximizer"), as they typically use DirectX hooks.
(Humm, maybe it can be done at a kernel level a layer or two above process spaces).

One could make one of these key broadcasting programs with out any of this of course if they didn't want all the fanciness (the screen splitting stuff, overlay GUIs, etc).
Just use an external process using standard Win32 APIs, don't have to be in the processes space IMHO.
If I'm not mistaken something like your "ClickBoxer" could just be a separate window rather then an overlay.

How about just getting an official word from Blizzard, on whether or not using WOW with "Inner Space" is okay?

[Lax]

Hi all,

My 50 cents in this interesting thread..
Hope I don't piss you off again Lax. I don't really care, but FYI it isn't my aim to do so. I'm a straight shooter..

Your system DOES use stealth you know. Your system injects several DLLs in a target process.
I never looked in detail but I think you are de-linking the modules, or just doing custom mapping to avoid having them on processes list to begin with.
And I think you are messing with the headers to hide from Walks with VirtualQuery() et al.

Anyhow maybe this is a problem. This is a third party software either modifing, or adding something in it's space.
But then again, so are these other programs that are doing the screen splits, PIP, etc. (like "Maximizer"), as they typically use DirectX hooks.
(Humm, maybe it can be done at a kernel level a layer or two above process spaces).

One could make one of these key broadcasting programs with out any of this of course if they didn't want all the fanciness (the screen splitting stuff, overlay GUIs, etc).
Just use an external process using standard Win32 APIs, don't have to be in the processes space IMHO.
If I'm not mistaken something like your "ClickBoxer" could just be a separate window rather then an overlay.

How about just getting an official word from Blizzard, on whether or not using WOW with "Inner Space" is okay?1. Lots of things inject into target processes. For example, Logitech mice come with software that injects into every process. The simple act of injecting DLLs into a process makes no difference whatsoever.
2. Yes obviously something like ClickBoxer *could* be a separate application. But, that would defeat the purpose. The only reason it's useful to have such a UI is because it is in game. The main purpose of ClickBoxer is to demonstrate the ability and simplicity of its function, not "hey look we have something unique" but rather, hey here is an example of how you can do this, and it is very easy to do.
3. If Blizzard were inclined to do something like that, believe me I would. Assuming they're not, you'll just have to take the word of people using the software, just like with every other program used with World of Warcraft.

[blast3r]

To clear things up.

Innerspace by itself has never got anyone banned.

Extensions have.

I for one am very glad that people are starting to use Innerspace for Multiboxing, as I'm sure I said *last year* that it would be an excellent tool to have in our 'arsenals' ;-)

/me waves at Lax. Good to see you here :-D

I always thought Innerspace was a bannable application (just as a lot did) but after learning more about it I think it is actually kind of cool. He has a video on multiboxing with it where you can use buttons on the main screen to send commands to the alts. Very cool.

[blast3r]

After reading this entire thread I think it would be much more efficient to post on wow forums and ask for a blues response on vanilla IS being bannable or not. I'm guessing the answer would be no as long as no addons that violated the TOS was used. Blues may not respond on it, though, due to the author also developing a way to hide from warden.

I just searched wow forums and can't find anyone even asking if vanilla IS is bannable or not.

[Wilbur]

The thing you have to consider, is however uneducated people are about innerspace *here* they are 100x stupider on the WoW forums.

[Suribusi]

The thing you have to consider, is however uneducated people are about innerspace *here* they are 100x stupider on the WoW forums.
Yeah, didn't someone ask about keyclone or something on the wow forums and it turned into a 14 page flame on how multiboxing is hacking that you will burn in hell for? haha

-S

[Wilbur]

...Until Belfaire bitch-slapped the retards into touch.

[eqjoe]

lol, so I guess it went off topic a little.

I got access tor my account back, no real explanation except they made me change my password cause they said my account was not secure. So I guess someone else got on my account and was using some sort of automated script for something.

Anyways, you guys have fun talking about innerspace :) I'm back to leveling

Dude... we totally hijacked your thread!

On behalf of the community.... "Sorry about that!"

-j

[Wilbur]

Can split the topic if you want...