Focusless, targetless, 'leaderless' setup. Semantic issue.

[Kaynin]

I'm tripping over a rather specific action done through keymapping here.

If I press Q on one char and send shift-U to another, ctrl-shift-U to another, etc.

Am I not technically sending two or three keypresses to other clients, depending on how many modifiers I have sent? Ultimatly, how many modifiers or not, only one macro is being used. But it still registers multiple keypresses through one single press.

Isn't this dangerously close to what we are and what we are not allowed to do? D:

I know I can set it up without modifiers, but I'd soon be running out of keys to bind. xD

[Ticks]

If you have any doubt about how Blizzard defines automation, I suggest you take a gander at this thread...

GM Malkorix on automation, fairness, PvP balance... ('http://www.dual-boxing.com/forums/index.php?page=Thread&threadID=13473')

[Frosty]

If we were pressing "A" and sending "A and Q", then it would be multiple keypresses.

The thing is, when you hit "A" it's actually "a" unless you hold down "Shift+A".
The extra keys being passed are modifiers, not keys that function by themselves.

[ZorbaTheGeek]

This is something I have been pondering over the last few days too. I then began to wonder if use of the CAPS LOCK key may, in fact, violate the one keypress one action rule because the operating system effectively generates a SHIFT-A for a press of A. Start thinking like this and you open a whole new can of worms with arrow keys, PG UP and the numeric keypad.

Now, obviously, I am just being silly with the extended keyboard functions and this does not strictly relate to the example of generating a different modifier for each session. I'm still trying to decide which way Blizzard would go on this one as it is, ultimately, entirely down thier discretion. Modified or not we are effectively sending one "key" with the modifier "held down" on the other sessions as defined by the hotstrings. Even a "white" or "black" list can potentially be a problem as it allows key "A" to pass but not key "B" resulting in a differing result across sessions depending on which has focus.

To take the concern to it's logical conclusion ANY use of hotstrings could potentially be a problem as it allows different keys to be pressed on multiple sessions for a single hardware event even though only "one key" is pressed on each WoW instance. The answer is uncertain, but is dependant on how Blizzard view our installations. Do they look at each instance of WoW in isolation or as a group of sessions? The only people who can answer this question will not, unless at some future time they decide we may not continue.

I would suggest (EDIT: I wouldn't dare to advise anyone on this matter) have decided not to worry about it too much until Warden issues a warning about keyclone, we can be almost certain that Blizzard knows precisely what the keysender is capable of.

[TheBigBB]

I don't believe that caps lock is the same as holding shift. It produces capital letters, but it doesn't produce the same effect as having a mod key. Anyway, shift or caps lock by themselves don't actually send any output to the game server.

[Frosty]

Another way to look at this is that 1 key press = 1 action.
What is frowned upon is 1 key press = more than 1 action.

If it takes you 12 key presses to get 1 action...you really aren't hurting anyone but yourself.

If I hit "1" and ToonA does the /wave emote and ToonB is sent "Shift+1" and does the /rude emote, it's still 1 keypress and 1 action. ;)

[ZorbaTheGeek]

I don't believe that caps lock is the same as holding shift. It produces capital letters, but it doesn't produce the same effect as having a mod key. Anyway, shift or caps lock by themselves don't actually send any output to the game server.As I said myself in the original post, I was just being silly about CAPS LOCK and use of anything in a standard keyboard. On the other hand simply programming an N52 or an X-Keys to send "SHIFT-A" on a keypress is another matter entirely and could, if Blizzard decided, become a violation of the rules under the "one keypress, one action" rule.

If it takes you 12 key presses to get 1 action...you really aren't hurting anyone but yourself. The point made by the original poster, and myself, is that we're not pressing two buttons we are in fact pressing one button to get the effect of pressing two or more. It's still only one in-game "key" but the "key" is different within each session by virtue of the modifers we are sending with it in a leaderless setup. Pressing one button to get the result of two (modifier+key) can just as easily be achieved using the programmable buttons in your mouse software.


It's important to remember that it's their game, their rules and they can ban us for any reason they choose. They know about keyclone, they know what it can do and they choose not to warn/ban us for using it. This could always change.

[Frosty]

If it takes you 12 key presses to get 1 action...you really aren't hurting anyone but yourself. The point made by the original poster, and myself, is that we're not pressing two buttons we are in fact pressing one button to get the effect of pressing two or more. It's still only one in-game "key" but the "key" is different within each session by virtue of the modifers we are sending with it in a leaderless setup. Pressing one button to get the result of two (modifier+key) can just as easily be achieved using the programmable buttons in your mouse software.


It's important to remember that it's their game, their rules and they can ban us for any reason they choose. They know about keyclone, they know what it can do and they choose not to warn/ban us for using it. This could always change.
I understand your point, but I think you're missing mine. Let's reverse what we are doing:
We'll press "Shift+1" on our main, and Send "1" unmodified. Since we are pressing 2 keys now, to get 1, does that make it ok? It's still translated as 1 action.
And another point, I play 5 different classes.. when I press "3" I cast 5 different spells, but this is ok right? They are different actions, but still only one single action each.

Maybe if you think of it as one "command" = one "action". The keys and modifiers are already in the game and macros.
And this setup can be reproduced (painfully) using only macros.

I do understand your point about programmable hardware, but the reason these were banned is due to people achieving more than one action with 1 "command".

[ObesAU]

1 keystroke to 1 client and a different key stroke to another. I guess they could take exception to that but I think you could achieve the same results inside the wow api (maybe not in combat?). But if it can be achieved using the API (in and out of combat) it is only a convenience/simplification thing and wouldn't be an issue.

Round robin is possibly also similar style of issue, you can achieve the same effect using cast sequence. So I can't see that being a real issue.

If however either usesome form of logic based on external stimuli or added a delay... automation

That said I only bind keystrokes to the same keystroke in all clients, and so that they send all the time with no delay. I tried the focusless, leaderless thing... Its not how I play. I like having a definite leader with a succession plan.

[Frosty]

1 keystroke to 1 client and a different key stroke to another. I guess they could take exception to that but I think you could achieve the same results inside the wow api (maybe not in combat?). But if it can be achieved using the API (in and out of combat) it is only a convenience/simplification thing and wouldn't be an issue.

Round robin is possibly also similar style of issue, you can achieve the same effect using cast sequence. So I can't see that being a real issue.


It's very easy to reproduce this same thing by just using different keybinds in WoW it's self. Spread-out macros/setups are a good example.
For the longest time, I had my 4 slave toon's "down arrow" key set to either strafe left or right.




If however either usesome form of logic based on external stimuli or added a delay... automation

That said I only bind keystrokes to the same keystroke in all clients, and so that they send all the time with no delay. I tried the focusless, leaderless thing... Its not how I play. I like having a definite leader with a succession plan.
I agree, the key here is automation. We aren't automating anything that we couldn't already do. This is just another way to do it. :)

[Ticks]

I think Blizzard could care less about what or how many buttons you press as long as there isn't automation in the sequence. If you press two buttons at once or 10, they don't care. But the moment you put a delay in the button presses by using 3rd party software (or hardware), they'll ban you. If you have a 3rd party application that presses buttons for you while you get a cup of coffee, they will ban you. Seriously, read what the GM said in the link in the second post.

[Kaynin]

Thanks for the responses, this cleared my worries quite a bit. I suppose we have to look at it in the reverse way indeed. One keypress -> one action.

Thanks a bunch for the thoughts on this! Was worrying my head over it for some time. :P