Who's the 26 BoXoR RoXoR?

[Sam DeathWalker]

Me! I'm In like Flyn!

http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/9068/imin1jc3.th.jpg (http://img98.imageshack.us/my.php?image=imin1jc3.jpg)

http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/492/imin2rc9.th.jpg (http://img98.imageshack.us/my.php?image=imin2rc9.jpg)

http://img182.imageshack.us/img182/8312/imin3gt3.th.jpg (http://img182.imageshack.us/my.php?image=imin3gt3.jpg)

[NoobShammy]

that is intense ! But i do like it though i cant see why do more tehn 5 boxes but thats just me. Im happy with my 64 x5 elemental shamans

[krinkle]

thanks for the pics, please keep them coming. :D

[Yamio]

uhhhhh....WOW!!! Holy crap that's a lot of cattle.

Good job.

[Stealthy]

You need to create a guild called "It's a stampede" lol

Cheers,

S.

[valkry]

Ranga belf lol. Shoulda named her Furrylover or soemthing imo 8)

[Skuggomann]

Who?

[Garret]

Might want to start pausing keyclone to chat. You'll end up saying something you don't want said in /say eventually.

[Saevio]

What was the reasoning for 26 accounts? 25 Would seem like a better number, 5 full groups, 25-man raids etc.

[Frosty]

Cool, now you need to get them out of the starting zone. ;)

[Xzin]

Cool, now you need to get them out of the starting zone. ;)

And establish control so you don't /r 26 times. And level up.

[Ken]

I don't see 26 characters ... I only see some low level characters that could be running in trial accounts or even on a private server.
*yawn*

[lacitpo]

this is gonna be a fun ride.

no mods?

[Zub]

guys, remember when you first started wow.. "hum, how do i atlk to this guy" type thing.
Give Sam a bit of time to learn.

In any case, good to see you've started Sam. Good Luck with the learning curve

[Sanctume]

I don't see 26 characters ... I only see some low level characters that could be running in trial accounts or even on a private server.
*yawn*Isn't one of the limitation of trial accounts is you cannot group? I'd like to see a simple screen shot of the raid group with of 26 similarly named toons.

[Sam DeathWalker]

I hope my oppenents arn't COWards hukhukhuk. If someone runs from me Ill have to make some kind of macro:

"Don't be a COWard" lol ...

Ok for the 10th time I have 26 because I have SIX computers.

5 computers have 5 toons each (25) and the main computer has the leader (Pal Blood Elf) (1). This way I can be in full screen with all effects on on the main computer (and take the best SS the game can do), and play the other 5 full screen but with all effects off (to help frame rate). The main will have 60 fps all the time cause its just one account.

I think Ill level up The main and 2 others as a group (so the main gets 3X exp also), and then the left over 3 as a group, then 4 times 5 man groups. That should even out the exp all the way though. Ill lose out on group exp but when raf is over Ill just do the Pal alone and 5 X 5 man groups.

Ill be level 20 soon enough to stop all the "trial account" talk, no mods cause I read somewhere that in tournaments you can't use mods so its best to learn to play without.

I have six computers to one keyboard, I have white list keyclone and only pass F1-F9 (F10 on round robbin), and 5 keys to control the pip groups (works kinda iffy, I just am alt tabing really fast most all the time). So keyclone is not passing anything (cept the F1 attack or F2 heal or F6 stomp or F8 accept or F9 exit) to all computers. The 6 talk is cause I dont have that worked out yet (and it makes me sound "bigger" to talk 6 at a time lol). I dont want keyclone passing normal keystrokes.

[Ken]

[...] I read somewhere that in tournaments you can't use mods so its best to learn to play without.[...]


Google -> wow tournaments -> http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/community/tournaments/cpl_faq.html


Q: Are there any restrictions on UI mods?
A: There are no restrictions on UI mods for these events. However, if any hacks are detected, you will be disqualified from the contest.


I dont want keyclone passing normal keystrokes.
Why?

[zanthor]

Best guildname ever...

<There is no Cow Level>

[zanthor]

Quoted
I dont want keyclone passing normal keystrokes.


Why?

Same reason I don't I would assume. I whitelist as well so only my specific keys go through, I'd assume the issue with him talking 6 at a time is due to using something besides keyclone along with keyclone.

[Ken]

I whitelist as well so only my specific keys go through, I'd assume the issue with him talking 6 at a time is due to using something besides keyclone along with keyclone.

That was not what I meant. I meant that he's only passing F1-F12 (or a part of it) to handle things like invites and why he was not passing other buttons for other functionality like: setting the main character to assist, other types of casts/assists, other abilities, etc.

[raz]

Hmm, for some reason I want to go get steak for lunch now.... Glad to see you're getting things running Sam.

[Thulos]

Gluck Sam. Once you get your spread out macro setup, you should do a cast sequence warstomp macro and video it! Would be fun to watch.

[Jaws5]

Grats Sam your in the gate

Moooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:)

[Dooz]

i think the guild name should be "Eat Mor Chickin."

[merujo]

gj and now gl :)

[Drizzit]

what about "Guild needs more Cowbell"?

[Xzin]

If someone runs from me Ill have to make some kind of macro:

"Don't be a COWard" lol ...


Which will show up to them as random gibberish.......

[Los]

/moo %t

:D

[cheeseprophet]

Awesome!
But eh... you cant do 25 man raids with 25 shamans so i guess you're paying for 26 accs to do some PvP?
Or just fun? EXPENSIVE fun? (yes the game is all about fun =,=)

[Sam DeathWalker]

That was not what I meant. I meant that he's only passing F1-F12 (or a part of it) to handle things like invites and why he was not passing other buttons for other functionality like: setting the main character to assist, other types of casts/assists, other abilities, etc.

Well I dont know yet what I will or wont need. I might add a lot as time goes on ...

Kinda bumed that my "puller" isnt a puller lol. Have to wait for avenger shield and just attack mobs that have manna for now, lucky I went Blood Elf ... rats.

[cheeseprophet]

lol nvm



That was not what I meant. I meant that he's only passing F1-F12 (or a part of it) to handle things like invites and why he was not passing other buttons for other functionality like: setting the main character to assist, other types of casts/assists, other abilities, etc.

Well I dont know yet what I will or wont need. I might add a lot as time goes on ...

Kinda bumed that my "puller" isnt a puller lol. Have to wait for avenger shield and just attack mobs that have manna for now, lucky I went Blood Elf ... rats.

[ChaoticMonk]

Holy Cow!! *pun intended*
What was the reasoning for 26 accounts? 25 Would seem like a better number, 5 full groups, 25-man raids etc.Auction alt of course :D

[Mac]

Kinda bumed that my "puller" isnt a puller lol. Have to wait for avenger shield and just attack mobs that have manna for now, lucky I went Blood Elf ... rats. Some people have their pali learn engineering so they can throw dynamite in order to pull groups from a distance.

[Caspian]

Kinda bumed that my "puller" isnt a puller lol. Have to wait for avenger shield and just attack mobs that have manna for now, lucky I went Blood Elf ... rats. Some people have their pali learn engineering so they can throw dynamite in order to pull groups from a distance.I did this and have loved it. The goggles you can make are pretty snazzy too.

Good luck Sam!

[zanthor]

Leveling 4 shamans I rarely ran into a situation where mobs actually survived until melee range...

I can't imagine needing a tank before level 60... oh and horde pallies blow ass before 60 since Blizzard didn't itemize with them in mind.

[Mac]

kinda funny, I was doing dailies on the isle and electrix wispered me from a lvl 6 alt and said, do /who sam , I did and it filled up my who window lol I was going to say hi when I got done, but you had logged out already.

Good luck and have fun Sam!

[Sam DeathWalker]

Had some fun last night getting to level 5 and had 10 or so people come watch me. The only negitive comment was "paladins sux", lots of support on the server it seems. Lots and Lots of questions ...

Died a few times, lost over 1/2 at the enterence to the mining company, but then went back and killed those mobs easy. Been one shotting mobs up to level 10. Can't wait to get resurection. What class has the longest range pull from a single spot - I have to constantly keep on the move, it would be nice to pull mobs 50 yards or more away.

This is why Im called deathwalker:

http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/4783/skinnerscampbg9.th.jpg (http://img529.imageshack.us/my.php?image=skinnerscampbg9.jpg)

[zanthor]

Had some fun last night getting to level 5 and had 10 or so people come watch me. The only negitive comment was "paladins sux", lots of support on the server it seems. Lots and Lots of questions ...

Died a few times, lost over 1/2 at the enterence to the mining company, but then went back and killed those mobs easy. Been one shotting mobs up to level 10. Can't wait to get resurection. What class has the longest range pull from a single spot - I have to constantly keep on the move, it would be nice to pull mobs 50 yards or more away.

This is why Im called deathwalker:

http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/4783/skinnerscampbg9.th.jpg ('http://img529.imageshack.us/my.php?image=skinnerscampbg9.jpg')All ranged classes max at the same, 41 with a talent. I think 36 is the average with short range spells being 25~... on the move is going to be a fact of life for you for a while, using shocks means shorter range but no stopping to cast, may work out b etter with your arrangement til you get up to chain lightning...

[Vyndree]

What class has the longest range pull from a single spot

Hunters ('http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=19500'), if I'm not mistaken...

[Bradster]

This is why Im called deathwalker:
Close, internet research yeilds the following.
http://www.fohguild.org/forums/attachments/retard-rickshaw/85521d1219178612-deathwalker-plans-26-boxing-wow-deathwalkersloincloth.gif



I like the cow army, few guild name ideas

<Food to go>
<cowabunga>
<Tip this>
<OMG Start running>

[Sam DeathWalker]

I felt it would be hunters but guns are like "ranged" - whats that? If its not 40 or more then dosnt seem worth to level up another toon. Where is this infos, not on WoWhead from what I see.

http://www.wowhead.com/?item=35075#comments

[Zub]

I felt it would be hunters but guns are like "ranged" - whats that? If its not 40 or more then dosnt seem worth to level up another toon. Where is this infos, not on WoWhead from what I see.

http://www.wowhead.com/?item=35075#comments
It's not usualy on items, it's more like a spec/talent thing (available to many classes, in different forms)

For example: http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=19500

[Zub]

I felt it would be hunters but guns are like "ranged" - whats that? If its not 40 or more then dosnt seem worth to level up another toon. Where is this infos, not on WoWhead from what I see.

http://www.wowhead.com/?item=35075#comments
It's not usualy on items, it's more like a spec/talent thing (available to many classes, in different forms)

For example: http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=19500

Many more in this list:
http://www.wowhead.com/?search=reach#abilities

Most of them have "Reach" in their name
Arctic Reach
Destructive Reach
Grim Reach
Holy Reach
Nature's Reach
Shadow Reach
Storm Reach

[Zub]

I felt it would be hunters but guns are like "ranged"
Ranged means 'at a distance', basically "not melee". Items/spells you can use to hit targets that are at more than ~5 yards.
Bows and Guns are ranged weapons. Lightning bolt is a ranged spell.

for example casters and Hunters are ranged classes/specs.
Rogues, Warriors, Feral Druids, Enhancement Shamies are not ranged classes/specs (even tho some can use guns/bows or do some spells for minimal ranged damage)
Paladins are .. well, who cares about palies anyway :p

[Yagamoth]

I'd be simply too lazy to do that o_o... But nice work, I'd love to see some further progress ^^

Btw. Guild name...
<There is a cow level.>
^^

[pomo]

lighting bolt shouldnt be a problem as a "pulling method " but if you want your pally to do it i suggest what others have recommended and get engineering . its not to mat heavy to level up to 150 and get Dynamite .

SAm if you want to have some fun at later levels there are some instances that let you bring 10 people in . I.e RFC /SM you will get nerfed xp but it would be interesting for your 1 pally + 9 shammy or 10 shammies to go on a killing spree there.


what server you on?

[Sam DeathWalker]

nerzhul.

Ya Im trying to get some plan to get ez dynimite.

But I was kinda hoping that a Hunter with bow or gun could just get mobs from like 50 or more yards away.

Ok all "ranged" items start at 30 yards and then are modified by individual talents?

So dynimite, bows and guns are all the same range if you have no talents to increase distance?

[Jheusse]

http://www.wowhead.com/?spells=6

http://www.wowhead.com/?search=EZ-Thro+Dynamite#uncategorized-spells

Do some hovering over the spells at those two links and it appears that 30 yards is your base range with those sort of weapons.

Hunters and mages have talents that increase their range off the top of my head 36 yards is a number for mages I recall, but 41 is the absolute max I believe. Other ranged dps I can't tell ya much, less familiar. I also believe that talents is the only way to increase range, enchants and ammo bags and the like only increase attack speed.

[gobtol]

Me! I'm In like Flyn!

It's "Flynn", like Errol Flynn

[Sam DeathWalker]

Well I'm about 7-8 average right now. Died a ton of times tonight. Took on some skull con mob lol wiped ... then some level 17 mob ... wiped (grats having no items to get durability hits cept on main ... ), then running through barrens some level 16-18 mobs swamed me wipe ...

Then some alliance guy got near me so I attack him ... opps, wipe lol ...

Then i gets to thunderbluff and naturally wipe on the elevators oh well ...

Well gonna try and get some bags then back to the grind.

Got some add ons, one for loot (dosnt seem to allow me to loot 1/2 the time), one for maps and one for combat (usless). Put top middle computer on far camera so now I can see mobs around me on that computer and have my main in first person. Mobs 4-5 levels above me dies almost instantly so its all good.

[Ughmahedhurtz]

Well I'm about 7-8 average right now. Died a ton of times tonight. Took on some skull con mob lol wiped ... then some level 17 mob ... wiped (grats having no items to get durability hits cept on main ... ), then running through barrens some level 16-18 mobs swamed me wipe ...

Then some alliance guy got near me so I attack him ... opps, wipe lol ...

Then i gets to thunderbluff and naturally wipe on the elevators oh well ...

Well gonna try and get some bags then back to the grind.

Got some add ons, one for loot (dosnt seem to allow me to loot 1/2 the time), one for maps and one for combat (usless). Put top middle computer on far camera so now I can see mobs around me on that computer and have my main in first person. Mobs 4-5 levels above me dies almost instantly so its all good.

You do realize that level 7 to 8 should take about an hour, not days right?Assuming all your configs are done and you're spending zero time managing things other than quests/kills/looting.

[Xzin]

Speaking from experience, you don't need ANY gear until at LEAST 45+ to level up. At least for non melee classes. Not that repair bills are high or anything but it seems to me to be faster to just keep going than to stop and go back and repair. Repair bot aside, I wonder if we could quantify if the time it took to go to town slowed you down more than the lower DPS output at the lower levels. Would be a pain to find the exact break even.

[daviddoran]

With my RAF teams, I eventually stopped looting, as it was just taking too long. I also only bothered with equipping whatever quest rewards that were an upgrade, and vendoring the rest. Plus I had the added bonus of having all my toons look the same. You level so fast with RAF compared to the regular way, I imagine you will be upgrading gear from rewards before you need to repair it.

[Xzin]

I skipped looting too and just gave myself gold. I did loot quest rewards and boss loot but that is pretty much it.

[Sam DeathWalker]

Well I do about 1-2 levels per sitting of about 3-4 hours, but I am still learning, at least this morning I stuck to the area around thunderbluff and didnt die. I going to have to look into the shock spells cause I am moving all the time constantly, I don't set up a camp at all like I do in EQ.

I have the hitmode and some autosortloot addon and the atlas add on (yet to get it to display a zone map though ...). Keyclone Rob said I should get minning and skinning and herb and get some trade items to sell so I guess I set that up now so I can get money for training and whatnot.

Lots of UI things to set up for sure.

[Ughmahedhurtz]

Well I do about 1-2 levels per sitting of about 3-4 hours, but I am still learning, at least this morning I stuck to the area around thunderbluff and didnt die. I going to have to look into the shock spells cause I am moving all the time constantly, I don't set up a camp at all like I do in EQ.

I have the hitmode and some autosortloot addon and the atlas add on (yet to get it to display a zone map though ...). Keyclone Rob said I should get minning and skinning and herb and get some trade items to sell so I guess I set that up now so I can get money for training and whatnot.

Lots of UI things to set up for sure.Sam, if you're leveling all 25 toons every couple hours, that's quite an accomplishment. Especially considering how incredibly sucktastic Mulgore is for atrocious collection quests (gather x/10 Trophy Swoop Quills, etc.). Also, you can pretty much get rid of Atlas. I'd highly recommend the Carbonite Quest addon ('http://www.wowinterface.com/downloads/info8214-CarboniteQuest.html') , as it'll show you the areas where your quest NPCs/monsters are. ;)

Example:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3206/2854962728_6ff01ceec2_b.jpg

[glo]

Well I do about 1-2 levels per sitting of about 3-4 hours, but I am still learning, at least this morning I stuck to the area around thunderbluff and didnt die. I going to have to look into the shock spells cause I am moving all the time constantly, I don't set up a camp at all like I do in EQ.

I have the hitmode and some autosortloot addon and the atlas add on (yet to get it to display a zone map though ...). Keyclone Rob said I should get minning and skinning and herb and get some trade items to sell so I guess I set that up now so I can get money for training and whatnot.

Lots of UI things to set up for sure.

I wouldn't worry about any trade skills at all, with that many characters you can make as much gold doing an hour of dailies at 70 as you will collecting the entire time you are leveling. Collecting will slow down your leveling quite a bit, all that mining, skinning, emptying bags, selling at the auction and it will be a tiny drop in the bucket when it comes to getting mounts for all those characters.

Don't know if you know this but you don't need to level all 26 characters by hand, with that RAF bonus you could level the 18 and instantly make the others 60 with the gift levels. Alternatively you could get 13 level 60s of other classes I guess. Either way good luck.

[Zub]

ajust found this : http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Ner%27zhul&n=Samdeathwkzz
Good going.

Sam, since level 10 you're accumulating "Talent" points every new level, points that you can spend for extra abilities.
The Talent window is accessible in the micro menu, just next to your character panel.
There are 3 panes for each class, that let you 'spec' in a more precise role (usually one tree for pvp and supporting abilities, one for dps, and one for tanking or healing, depending on the class.
It's better to have a read of all the talents before you start clicking icons because you have to pay a fee to get your points to spend back.

I assume your pally will put points in the protection tree (tank), and your shamies in the elemental tree (ranged dps)

[Falkor]

Moo!
I'm sure both myself and Xzin will be intrested to see your progress, alot of people start 20-25chars but either give up after 20levels due to exhaustion or simple cannot afford to fund it.
Keep us posted if you do persist to level up :)

Also be intresting to know your setup....

[Sam DeathWalker]

My other guys are like 8 or so I had to get the pally up to 12 so I can try and get rez.

I posted my planed shaman ele build (52/5/something) I thinks somewhere here on this forum. Havent really though about the Pally build cept it will be prot.

Been working mostly on the UI for that last few days with all these add ons.

Anyone know how to get rid of the armor durability (or lack thereof lol) display?

http://img355.imageshack.us/img355/9126/wowscrnshot091508221612oc1.th.jpg (http://img355.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wowscrnshot091508221612oc1.jpg)

[Zub]

Anyone know how to get rid of the armor durability (or lack thereof lol) display?

lol, go repair maybe? Get a vendor with an Anvil icon.
They will repair your armor for 2silver 49copper ;)

[Sam DeathWalker]

No the stupid icon thats part of the mini map display, that looks like some guy in armor.

[Drak41]

:D that means your armor is broken and you do need to go repair, once you repair it will go away 8)

[Zub]

No the stupid icon thats part of the mini map display, that looks like some guy in armor.
If you're talking about this:
http://tonicturtle.free.fr/wow/armordetail.JPG
Then it will disappear when you go and repair your armor, which, according to your screenshot, will cost you 2s 49c.
The yellow bits all have 5 or less durability, the red bits have 0 durability.
Zero durability is like being naked basically, you lose all the stats of that item; Not that it matters much with your current gear.

you lose durability little by little while you are in combat.
If you die to a game character (NPC) you will lose 10% durability on all items.
If you accept to be rezzed by the spirit Rezzer at the graveyard, you will lose another 25% durability. (although i think it doesn't happen at very low levels)
If you get killed in pvp by another player, you do not lose the 10% durability. Same thing if you manage to kill yourself (some classes have abilities that allow that, Priests' Shadow Word: Death, or Warlock aoe fire spell come to mind)
Jumping down a cliff to your death will cost you 10% durability as well as drowning or fatigue.

At higher levels, if you fight with zero durability (all red items) you won't go far. It will be like having a paper armor and hitting with a wet noodle, but less powerful.

[Edit] added some info on durability loss.

[Sam DeathWalker]

Exactly. How do I get it to go away without fixing my stuffs? I mean most everything else on the UI can be eliminated if needed. But ya the repair cost is minimal I guess.

[Sanctume]

Bribe some Paladin to boost you from 1 to 60 in 26 hours per team.
Level 1 to 10, questing without collection/repair is maybe 2 hours at most.
Level 10-20 in SFK is another 2-3 hours maybe.
Level 20-40 in SM, you could be at 12 hours /played at level 40.

[Gomotron]

Sam,

Having come myself from MB'ing EQ for years, understand that WoW is totally different. In EQ, you set up camps and had a puller grab mobs. In WoW, you basically are mobile almost 100% of the time, otherwise the mobs in a given area are all dead and pulling from far away without having the mob reset on the way becomes problematic.

If you haven't already figured it out, quests get you FAR MORE XP for the effort than just grinding mobs. And, given the RAF thing that I assume you are doing, you can avoid most, if not all, the collection quests (I shudder to even think of doing a collection quest x26 with a 15% drop rate item that is typical of those type of quests). Quests are where it's at with WoW, as the efficiency of time spent vs. XP gained is astronomically superior than EQ's "quest" feature. Ironic, given the name of the game.

WIth RAF, I collcet maybe 5-8 "kill" quests on a given area and do it all, then head back to town and turn them in. I have gained up to 2 levels per 8 quest hand-in that way with RAF. Also, since all kills count for a group, you'd only have to do the quest 5-6 times with your groups. The only issue I see is getting each group to "tag" the mob first and therefore get credit for the kill from that group. If you roll a hunter, you can "tag" the mob with a missile weapon, or heck, even a warrior or rogue can do it. Or, control a shaman within the group on that particular quest. Lots of options.

[Sam DeathWalker]

Ya its seems that Ill be moving all the time, setting up a camp dosnt seem to good. Gonna get my shock spells so I can cast on the move ... not sure about quests but Ill be looking into it asap.

I have a neet way to tag now. I have 6 groups (1X4, 1X2 and 4X5), and show one group leader on each of my screens. I bind a key to the action bar and drag the attack macro on just one of the leaders (easy to change on the fly) to that action bar slot. Hit that key and only he tags, then hit the attack key that goes to all 25 a 1/2 second later and volla a spicific group of my choice get all the exp.

[badashh]

Yeah, I agree with the other sentiments. Save yourself hours upon hours but doing kill quests(You can't complete them if you are in a raid) and collect this one item quests. This will save you tons of time. GL.

[d0z3rr]

I guess some people aren't realising that Sam is learning WoW, plus playing 26 characters! That would SUCK. If it were me, and I was new to an MMO, I would not multibox until I hit max level and exeperience most of the game. So I can't imagine learning a new MMO and playing 26 chars too. My head would explode.

[TheBigBB]

If I were going to 25 box I would actually level 5 teams up separately to max level before I played them together.

[Sanctume]

Exactly. How do I get it to go away without fixing my stuffs? I mean most everything else on the UI can be eliminated if needed. But ya the repair cost is minimal I guess. Get the Simple Minimap addon. It allows you to toggle the durability display.

I got one that is no longer supported called SLCore. It has SLCurability and displays a movable, resizable "xx%" indicator. THis is most useful for the main Tank as I keep track if my shield if broken--and I carry 4 shields. :)

[Sanctume]

I guess some people aren't realising that Sam is learning WoW, plus playing 26 characters! That would SUCK. If it were me, and I was new to an MMO, I would not multibox until I hit max level and exeperience most of the game. So I can't imagine learning a new MMO and playing 26 chars too. My head would explode. Think about it. You level 5 from 1 to 70, and doing it again 5 more times.

Sam's approach is total immersion from EQ to WOW. How else can he start seeing how to play 26 at once by starting with just 1 or 5? I will not see that issues he will encounter since I only play 5 at most.

[Tidomann]

Hey sam, best of luck to you.. What server did you decide on anyway?

I hope everything goes well with the phase change from WoW to EQ, being an old EQ player myself (although I never multiboxed it) I really hope you enjoy playing WoW :)

[Sam DeathWalker]

simpleminimap was not updated for the current patch, Im not using add ons that are not being supported currently. Im trying some fo the others but I just might have to learn all the codes for that and make a thing myself.

Its fun so far, sure would be something if someone took the best of EQ and the best from WoW and made a great game. But wow should improve faster then EQ I would guess given they have 50 X the amount of income to spend to improve.

[badashh]

51 x now with you Sam.

[Sam DeathWalker]

Well got my UI stable, Looking good:

http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/9632/wowscrnshot091708084054qk7.th.jpg (http://img262.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wowscrnshot091708084054qk7.jpg)

http://img523.imageshack.us/img523/6008/wowscrnshot091708084017xm5.th.jpg (http://img523.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wowscrnshot091708084017xm5.jpg)

[Sanctume]

It looks clean.

You can further hide the Bags and Micro Menu bars.

[Marious]

Looking clean Sam! Hope you are having fun with your raid behind you lol. And as mentioned you can further hide your bags, in Bongos you can select it to show a single bag, might be part of the regular blizz GUI as well just dont know where it is located.

[zanthor]

I'm curious, what fight took 23 seconds? With 4 shaman most fights take 3-4 seconds...

[Sam DeathWalker]

Thats just the pal fighting, to test the UI.

[zanthor]

Thats just the pal fighting, to test the UI.Whew! I was hoping it was something like that...

[Hor]

Ah, it's Sam! Sam, you are the reason I started multiboxing in the first place. I got to know you a little on Sullon Zek once upon a time, doing Vindi runs and whatnot with you and Hate people. Good to see you're in WoW.

[Sam DeathWalker]

Ya good times for sure, glad you joining the BoXoR community.

Hey I was thinking this morning that I can learn all the flight paths with RAF by making a level 1 in the places I want to go to and raf summoning one of the main 26 and then summoning all of them, then doing the same the next day. Well at least the flight paths to all the horde starting areas.

[badashh]

I don't think there are FPs in the starting areas. Just in the major cities, which are nice to have. You may be able to save yourself some time by finding one mage and have him port all of your "raid" to the major cities. I bet you could find one that would do it for free.

[Sam DeathWalker]

Ok hopefully this is the last of the UI stuffs:

Gots Pitbull, Domino, Titan, Cratographer, Auctioneer, and others. There is space for buffs and debuffs also.

http://img295.imageshack.us/img295/2421/wowscrnshot092108165543py4.th.jpg (http://img295.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wowscrnshot092108165543py4.jpg)http://img295.imageshack.us/images/thpix.gif (http://g.imageshack.us/thpix.php)

http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/6666/wowscrnshot092108165514jo1.th.jpg (http://img401.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wowscrnshot092108165514jo1.jpg)http://img401.imageshack.us/images/thpix.gif (http://g.imageshack.us/thpix.php)

[Zub]

iyou still play in first person mode? i really suggest you pull your camera out a lot more to avoid adds and stuff. and basically just be aware of what is around you (mobs, quest items, herbs/mines etc)
I personally hate it in FPS mode, you can't see shit, wolfenstein 3D belongs to the past ;-) but to each their own i guess.

Regarding mods, i usually find out i 'need' a mod or not after playing without and feeling the need. Not beforehand trying to plan everything (which you can't since you don't know your needs yet)
The standard interface works well to start with, PLUS it has all the warnings/icons that are needed in the game. Most custom interfases don't display them all since more experienced players know how to play without them, but not beginners.

How come do you have (in the same group) toons at level 6, 8 and 10? i would have thought you played toons always in the same groups.

[kayb]

Hahaha!

You seriously need to set up a mogulus stream or something. I wanna SEE this shit =)

Just a few more tips. When playing 26 characters, a tank is just a waste. Especially a slowass paladin =D
26 pets (26 felguards for example), all set to aggressive would mop the floor with everything instantly. You'd just have to keep running. (Note: You wont get loot or xp if pets kill mobs, but at maxlevel who really cares, it's all about killing the other faction then).

Good luck. I bet you're having a blast!

Edit: The real fun will start when you can deny raiding guilds access to their raid instances ;)

[Sam DeathWalker]

I just tossed in any 5 guys for the group unit frame. Although the main will be first person all the other 5 monitors will be with the surround view. And all the other 5 will have group leaders on them (I have 2, 4, and 4X5 groups) so everyone will be visible all the time.

This is a good UI, I can see mine and the mobs health very easy as well as tot and group health.

I think a tank is really necessary. There is no law that I can't do 5 and 10 mans (or 25 mans), so who knows.

[kayb]

Yeah. Go with a pally if you wanna do 5man stuff.

Another thought. You're controlling 26 guys. You're getting assaulted by lots of aoe hitting 26 guys for yay much damage. Lets say you we're controlling 26 guys with 26 pets. Aoe would hit 50 targets for nothing at all. Safety in numbers! =D
Edit: To clarify. Lets say an aoespell hits 10 guys for 1000 damage. Anything more than 10 targets affected and the damage will scale down. 20 targets might get hit for 500. 50 targets might get hit for 250.

Wtb progress updates!

[Sam DeathWalker]

Progress has been zilch. RL takes one week a month when a worker comes from another city to help out. Did some car bondo and lots of plumbing work and roof truss photo's. Anyway thats done now and I have a few weeks to play wow mostly. Have to do some EQ stuffs (make 2 items for 700K plats lol), and then hopefully will get to log into wow finally.

[glo]

Hahaha!

You seriously need to set up a mogulus stream or something. I wanna SEE this shit =)

Just a few more tips. When playing 26 characters, a tank is just a waste. Especially a slowass paladin =D
26 pets (26 felguards for example), all set to aggressive would mop the floor with everything instantly. You'd just have to keep running. (Note: You wont get loot or xp if pets kill mobs, but at maxlevel who really cares, it's all about killing the other faction then).

Good luck. I bet you're having a blast!

Edit: The real fun will start when you can deny raiding guilds access to their raid instances ;)

If a 25 man raid can't take out a 26 boxer they were going to fail anyway ;)

[glo]

I just tossed in any 5 guys for the group unit frame. Although the main will be first person all the other 5 monitors will be with the surround view. And all the other 5 will have group leaders on them (I have 2, 4, and 4X5 groups) so everyone will be visible all the time.

This is a good UI, I can see mine and the mobs health very easy as well as tot and group health.

I think a tank is really necessary. There is no law that I can't do 5 and 10 mans (or 25 mans), so who knows.

You definately want a tank. If you are working with that many accounts you should have every class and some of them in different specs. I'll make a quick list of what I would try for if I was ever going to do a project of this size.

First you want a pally tank, if you are planning on attempting any 25 man content you will want more then one for buffs. Any beyond the first will be healers but there is nothing stopping you from gearing one ret and re-speccing later.

Pally x1-3

Shaman you want 5, that let's you put one in each group for totems. Even funner is blowing through 5 man content with them. You will want to gear them all elemental while collecting heal gear on one or two and enhancement gear on another for maximum versatility.

Shammy x5

Mage is pretty much the best CC for raid level encounters and their portals and free food/water will save you alot of time and money. I'm going to say 5 mages as well, with that many you may be able to grind on some nice raid trash. Currently there is the sunwell plateau that you could do with 5 mages and there will more then likely be something similar in the expac.

Mage x5

Druids for stealth runs. You'll want one tank, one heal, and three dps. For this class I might collect healing gear on a couple of the DPSers as well.

Druid x5

Rogue is my least favorite class and from a 25 boxing perspective I don't see much use for them other then the single one you may need for evasion tanking. Maybe for some PVP fun?

Rogue x1-2

Hunter is another I don't enjoy playing and don't think will fit all that well with a 25 man boxing group. You will want one for pulling in raids, possibly another for PVP but once again you can always collect the gear and respec as necessary.

Hunter x1-2

Warrior isn't going to help much with boxing even though it's a fun class to play. You will want a warrior tank for some encounters and another for PVP fun. If you can 25 box you can probably run your pvp warrior and a pvp healing druid up pretty high in 2v2 arena.

Warrior x1-2

Deathknight appears to be playing a big part in the expansion and I would expect to see an encounter or two that they excel at as tanks. Again throw in one for PVP if it sounds fun.

Deathknight x1-2

Warlocks are just plain fun, powerful, and useful. With their pets and abilities they have some off tanking ability, CC, and alot of DPS. For raiding I would say at least 3 probably 4 and definitely one for PVP. A project that will only take you a few hours once you are used to the game is to make level 20 locks on each account and spread them all over the world for an unrivaled transportation system.

Warlocks x4-5

Priests for main heals.

Priest x1-2

That makes 26-31 characters which leaves 8-13 slots. My favorite picks for these slots would be more mage. World PVP with that much aoe damage and CC would be pretty insane. You could make a full raid with the Shaman, Locks, and Mages that will be disgusting in world raids.

This is all assuming you want a shot at doing 25 man content at some point, if not just get a tank and make the rest whatever ranged dps class you like.

[aNiMaL]

Deathknight appears to be playing a big part in the expansion and I
would expect to see an encounter or two that they excel at as tanks.
If everything works out as blizzard intends there will be no need for a specific class tank in the expansion.
(then again, they intended siege battles at launch)

Also, if indeed all healing power and spelldamage is converted to spellpower soon,
you probably won't need 2 sets for any caster toon.
I wouldn't bother about gear that much in this stage.
Just quest the way up in lvl and gear,
and start worrying about specific gear once you're getting around 10 lvls near max lvl.

[Sam DeathWalker]

When running 26, the one main can be up to his full potential but everyone else is limited to two spells. Shaman is best cause one spell is offensive (at 30 range) and the other defensive. When coming up with all these other classes remember (cept for buffs) that in combat is 2 spells max. If I get the current crew to 60 by end of 90 days Ill be working on some other classes but if not welll ...

[glo]

When running 26, the one main can be up to his full potential but everyone else is limited to two spells. Shaman is best cause one spell is offensive (at 30 range) and the other defensive. When coming up with all these other classes remember (cept for buffs) that in combat is 2 spells max. If I get the current crew to 60 by end of 90 days Ill be working on some other classes but if not welll ...

Where does this arbitrary 2 spell limit come from? I don't know about EQ as much but wow you aren't going to get the full potential out of any of the characters.

You do realize if it takes you 90 days to hit 60 with the RAF bonus it's going to take you about a year to hit 80? After a year and a half of leveling you then get to start gearing. At this point you will realize you aren't going to be able to box much if any 25 man content so you have to work on the groups 5-10 at a time. This is a huge project for someone who has never played the game!

[Marious]

For the most part with RAF you will outlevel all your gear within hours, gear wise at 60+ (Outland) you will get most of yours stuff from quest rewards anyways, and yeah should only take you about 2 days played time maybe more since you have a large crew with you but no more than 4 I would say to get to 60 and after the new patch comes out 60-70 should be a breeze for you.

Enjoy your Raid crew. If you can afford it and have the time to do it, hell why not.

[Rin]

For the most part with RAF you will outlevel all your gear within hours, gear wise at 60+ (Outland) you will get most of yours stuff from quest rewards anyways, and yeah should only take you about 2 days played time maybe more since you have a large crew with you but no more than 4 I would say to get to 60 and after the new patch comes out 60-70 should be a breeze for you.

Enjoy your Raid crew. If you can afford it and have the time to do it, hell why not.

The only problem I can see is that any boss beyond the 1st 'Gatekeeper/Gear Check' boss (pick a 25 man instance) will literally do the Death walk on our friend Sam. Also, I'm not sure about your 2 key maximum spell limitations that you're placing on yourself. I run 10 characters, and they all have the full array of spells/skills to them at any given time (~3 different options per click combination x 12 basic keys, 36 skills/spells/potions available). I also am running them across 3 computers now, as movement is one of the critical issues that you'll run into in the later instances. One auto-follow command is simply not enough when you need to be able to position Group A on the left side, Group B on the right, and your tank from Group A (or B) turning the boss away from your guys; surely without a proper movement setup, you'll get eaten by the effects (think Netherspite or the infernals during the Prince event). It's much more effective and efficient to be able to have certain controls move certain characters in a response time of < 8 seconds. I use 8 seconds as a baseline marker because in a raid, when people mess up ,it usually takes them a couple of seconds to realize that they've done something wrong, and a few more seconds to listen to what you've just told them to do (e.g. through a live chat server like Ventrilo).

Also, I'm curious, how are you planning on leveling your team? Instances don't really seem like a viable option with 26 (5 characters per group / 26 characters would be 6 runs per ~1/2 level). Consider the fact that even with R-A-F, you're still looking at 1/2 of a level at best per group per run - unless you're dealing with higher level instances - e.g. Zul'Farak, which again will be a real 'gear check' if you're only running it with the shaman... 4 shaman and a paladin should be able to handle that instance no problem though).

Good luck.

[kayb]

If a 25 man raid can't take out a 26 boxer they were going to fail anyway ;)

Well, I've taken out a whole SSC raid with my 5 shammies and a couple of friends. Granted, they were taken by surprise, but it's just as easy to hide with 26 as with 5.

About taking on (current) 25-man content alone. I've said it before, and I'll say it again: NO WAI! Sure, as level 70 group you can probably solo most the raidbosses from back in classic, but this is mainly a nostalgia thing. The gear from bwl/mc/ony etc is crap and totally worthless today. It's gonna be the same story all over again with Wrath of the Lich King. SSC/TK gear will be worth zippo. There is one 25man raidboss I'd consider doable with 20-boxing for instance, and 2-3 tanks and a couple of healers singleboxing, and that's Magtheridon. You can just brute force him by healing through his nova, and if you have enough dps it's probably possible to 23-box him with a Pally tanking 3-4 adds on the other side of the room with a top level restodruid healing his ass. As you all probably know Magtheridon has been done with 10 people or less, but these have been highly geared people.

I've played some other mmo's in my time, but none are even close to WOW when it comes to raid encounters. A game like Age of Conan, only just released, plays pretty much like Asherons Call or Everquest. It's a zergfest, and 25 10-year-olds would be as successful as a top raiding guild.

I've done all the instances now in WOTLK beta, and have started on heroics and Naxxramas raiding with my level 80 Death Knight tank, and I'm planning to do a blog entry on all the instances, so you can read my thoughts there. Nothing is final yet, and heroics are being tuned as we speak, some have been easy, others have been nigh impossible. There are great challenges coming both for 5, 10 and 25 boxers. If Wintergrasp world-pvp zone gets popular (It's been lagging like hell so I havent tested it much), thats the arena for Sam and other large-scale boxers. Hopefully it will be possible to gear characters through pvp in this zone, however it wont be top-shelf gear, since that gear requires both honor and arena points. Gear makes a huge difference in the current expansion, in the next expansion its taken to the extremes. I got almost 30.000 hit points buffed now, and 22.000 armor wielding a 2hander, and I dont have a single epic item yet. Ok, ok - so I'm geared for tanking, but I still see rogues in blues running around with 20.000+ hp.

Bah, I'm ranting...what were we talking about?

Edit: Oh yeah, leveling. Well you take your pally and 4 other toons, level them to 70. Then you use the pally to boost the other 5 groups. Then you spend RAF levels on some groups (Level 55-60 for instance), and all 26 should be level 70 in a couple of months when you start seriously playing (after all setup and learning is done away with).

[Sam DeathWalker]

Well level 75 is coming and 80 next year ... take da long term view. As to two spells, I prefer to keep it simple, but I can also, with 4-8 seconds get full control of any ONE character, but only one at a time (and I have full control of main most all the time). We'll see how it plays out as time goes on.

I'm doing ok now, it does seem that shocks are a lot better then non instant spells.... mobs are dieing instantly right and left, no time to loot. Didn't get rez yet but ...

Got all my professions also (some guy lent me one gold woot begging skillz).

Oh well back to do grind.

For trash levling I have one key to the leader of the group that gets the exp so he attacks first. Then one key to all for the killzor. So I can level a group up then switch to another group etc. Mana is spread out a lot that way and mobs die fast and there is little down time.

[kayb]

What setup were you running with again? 1 Paladin and 25 Shamans?

I'm getting all warm and fuzzy inside theorycrafting about large scale boxing. Especially with the upcoming changes to raidwide buffs and totems etc.

Edit: It just dawned on me that you'll need about 2000 gold at level 40 for mounts. And about 12-13.000 gold at level 60 for mounts. And another 25.000 gold at level 70 for slow flying mounts, or 125.000 gold for the fast one . Prices might not be 100% acurate, but the keywords are: Shizloadz of money =)

Edit again. After some thought, and using the "keeping it simple" idea, I would personally have started out with 1 paladin, 1 moonkin druid and 24 shamans. The druid plays exactly like the shamans, so this setup would essencially be played like a dual-box setup. 1 tank and 1 damagedealer. The moonkin druid gives everybody 5% spellcrit (moonkin aura), which is too good to pass up. You could drop every totem in the game with 1 button and it would just work since totems will be raidwide next expancion (as opposed to partywide like they are now). Same with moonkin aura. Might wanna add a deathknight at a later stage just as a speedbooster with unholy aura (increases run speed). Now, we all know healing could be an issue and chain heal isnt exactly fast and it does have bugs when you stand people on top of eachother, but I dont really see it as a problem. So you have to stop every once in a while and cast a heal...not a big deal.

[Zub]

Oh well back to do grind.

I hope you're talking about a quest-grind and not simply a mob-grind.
Quests will grant you 10 times more xp.

[puppychow]

lol Sam is going to run out of RAF time before he even hits level 30! Ugh, leveling without RAF will be painful.

[Griznah]

Shamans don't need mounts until flying mounts. You can manage with ghost wolves.

[Sam DeathWalker]

Saddly it looks like I wont get mounts untill my free zhebra (or whatever its called). Well I have all at level 10 or better cept 7 guys at level 9 now after playing most of the day. Im using lightning (stop and cast) on all cept a shock on the one guy who will tag for his group so I can control which group gets the exp and still kill mobs with one key press instead of two now. Have to be in 20 yards but thats not hard.


Its working well. Still have not done quests Ill read up on them now.

Maybe I get the Pal a mount and then I can use ghost wolf on the shamans and everyone going about same speed.


OK did a quest, kill 8 mobs. Seems that the quests are worth like the same as 25 or so killz. Not really sure that its worth all that. I suppose if its a kill quest and you dont have to go far to the mobs it could be a benifit, but anything else, nope. I can kill 25 mobs in 7 mintutes or so counting getting to them.

Got everyone to 10 and 2 shaman to 12 and Pal is 13.

[Zub]

OK did a quest, kill 8 mobs. Seems that the quests are worth like the same as 25 or so killz. Not really sure that its worth all that. I suppose if its a kill quest and you dont have to go far to the mobs it could be a benifit, but anything else, nope. I can kill 25 mobs in 7 mintutes or so counting getting to them.

When people who've been playing the game for 4+years tell you quests > kills, i would suggest you trust them ;-) at least while your RAF lasts.
At level 10 it means nothing. Heck with RAF you can get a group to level 10 in 1 hour no matter what path you follow.
at level 35 when some quests give you 10-15K xp and your kills give 150-200. Check again at 40/50.

Ow, and remember that you also get xp from the mobs you kill for the quest, so technically your example is 25+8 mobs.
Finally, quests are not all kill quests. Sometimes it's just looting 1 item from a mob that you were going to kill anyway, or even just gonig somewhere and talk to a guy.

Finally (and most importantly), quests give you a PROGRESSION PATH. Since you obviously have no idea about the game, quests your level tell you WHERE TO GO NEXT.
but then again, feel free to kill mindlessly. Not only you'll play an very inefficient way, but on top of it it will be boring ;) Your accounts, your choice

[Ken]

OK did a quest, kill 8 mobs. Seems that the quests are worth like the same as 25 or so killz. Not really sure that its worth all that. I suppose if its a kill quest and you dont have to go far to the mobs it could be a benifit, but anything else, nope. I can kill 25 mobs in 7 mintutes or so counting getting to them.

Got everyone to 10 and 2 shaman to 12 and Pal is 13.

The idea is that you collect *all quests* available to you (but skip the collection quests of course) and then use the Quest Helper addon (because it tells you where everything is and what the best quest route is) to to finish all the quests in 1 go. Then you get a bunch of new quests and do all of them. This will make questing A LOT faster, because you don't have to run as much ... as a multiboxer, it's usually the running around that takes a lot of time, because killing stuff is easy.
The benefit of already having played one or more characters in WoW is that you could have known where to get your quests and where to get the most interesting quests related to multiboxing. Then again, luckily there are some guides available with quests and quest paths.

Just doing 1 quest and turning it in is indeed a bit slow, but killing getting experience for doing a series of kills with each party is gonna take you longer and definitely in areas where there aren't so many mobs. Most areas aren't made for having 20+ people farming XP by killing mobs. Considering that getting XP in raid is impossible(at least with non-RAF accounts, as it only gives you the rested XP if you have any), I recommand to quest, just like all the others are trying to tell you.
About killing mobs *versus* questing: it's actually killing mobs versus killing mobs AND(or while) questing ;)

You also get gear from those quests. While others say that gear isn't important at your level, it can be useful as you will kill even faster and your characters will get killed a lot more difficult (resurrection takes some time).

[Sam DeathWalker]

level 35 when some quests give you 10-15K xp and your kills give 150-200. Check again at 40/50

Ya well if the ratio goes up over 25:1 much then sure quests are sounding really good. Thats a good idea also getting like 10 quests at one time to save some moving around. Someone just posted a new guide for boxer quests Ill look into that.

[Marious]

The important thing for you I think is to get all your quest and then go out, there are areas where you will get 5-8 quest, collect them then go on your killing spree, killing everything that looks at you funny. And at lower levels yes I agree with you the time wasted going to get the quest and the ratio of kill XP to quest XP is low. Later on you will want the quest. And I disagree you will get to 60 prior to loosing RAF bonus, just have to get over the learning curve, follow the guides they have there good. You are not at the point of hitting Barrens which will keep you active until at least 24-26, but you will get a lot of hate since you will be killing anything that moves and expect ganking from higher level Alliance. I can see you will be a force to reckon with once you get up in higher levels. Some of your guys will die but you will kill everything by sheer numbers.

[Rin]

And I disagree you will get to 60 prior to loosing RAF bonus

Not likely unless he ramps up the levelling. What I would do personally in this situation is level 1 team up to 70 quick, then use those 5 level 70 characters to level my 5 other teams up ( 4 chars per team + a 70 in each group... 20 total characters, 16 of which would be the low level chars). This method would at least bring you to accomplishing your goal of 60 before the R-A-F bouns. Otherwise, what he's going to run into is a situation where quests aren't yielding the amount of exp he needs in order to complete his goals. Quests don't start rewarding 9-10k+ on average (with RAF) until you get into your late 20s and mid 30s. Let's do some math:

You have 6 groups (5 characters per group / 26 characters) ... 1 character is the outlying character (I'll throw the errata out for now, because I don't want to confuse people with a lot of numbers)
- If you run instances, here's how the breakdown would go (roughly):
- per every 1 run of an instance you attain (1/2 of a level) (although it's not always 1/2 of a level, its generally around that with RAF). It takes an average of 1 hour per instance at the appropriate level (non-outland instances, non-Blackrock Depths, etc. -- just regular dungeons, SM, SFK, etc.)
- With this in mind, you can effectively create a leveling ratio of 1 level per every 2 hours spent in ONE group (that means 5 characters).
- 5 characters per group x 5 groups (we've omitted the extra character) ... = 25 characters get 1/2 a bubble of exp per every 5 hours of time played.
^^ The above assumes optimal capacity too; assuming 0 deaths, no screw ups, and effective leveling EACH run.
- Moving along... 25 characters get 1 level every 10 hours played.
- Starting at level 20 ... going to level 60 ... Time required: 400 hours. (40 total levels) ... Optimal capacity = 16.67 days thats /played 24 hour days.
Again, this assumes optimal capacity, which is often - impossible to attain (even for us 5 boxers; we all have our lazy moments).

While this may be attainable, it's doubtful that it's a likely front to attain. You're looking at at least double to triple that amount of time (32-50 played 24 hour days) to attain 70 on all characters. Questing may be a viable option, as quests reward exp quickly, but keep in mind - there are only so many kill quests... it may be faster to earn guaranteed exp in one area, rather than kill 10 of these x 5 groups (no one wants to wait on spawns).

[zanthor]

You can level 5 shamans to 60 easily in 36 hours played without any outside help using RAF...

Say 5 hours per sitting, thats a set of 60's in a weeks time...
Five weeks to get all to 60... assuming you don't use any gifted levels.

Of course this way you lose the learning curve of 25 boxing at once...

I'm curious, Prepared rocked his way to 60... did he level 1 group at a time?

[Bigdady92]

Raiding 25 multibox is going to be rough. Take the first boss in SSC: Hydross

This boss right here alone will stop this group cold. I don't care how much dps you put out you need to lock down the mobs somehow and be able to kite him back and forth. You'll need 2 tanks 1 frost 1 nature and the sheer amount of coordination would be intense. If you can do it, you should fly jet planes for the Air Force. You must heal, kite 4 mobs around, dps them, and shift a boss around. If you had 4 arms you could do it.

Pre-BC raids no problem, none at all. Most of them required you to stand there, heal and dps. No movement. nothing. karazan wont' be that bad except prince and chess.

The lack of the ability to move when random events occur (any ground flame is bad!) is going to be the stop gap for raiding BC content. EQ has mobs that stand there and let you be stupid and mash buttons. WoW requires mobility and split 2nd timing.

Have fun in 5/10 mans. I'll eat a bowl full of dog biscuts if this pack downs Kael or Vasjh!

Level a 4 shamans and a paladin to 70. try it. If you like it, finish the rest. You can train all day long after you get to 70, you are wasting your time attempting to tag mobs and dps them down as only the group that tagged the mob gets the xp credit, the rest are wasting time.

[TheBigBB]

Hydross would actually be possible for a MB player, I think, but getting the tanks into resist gear and doing the transitions properly would be a huge pain. Still, if you go that right the DPS don't need to move much, and there's not a lot of damage going around. But that's assuming your entire team is in epics to help them survive some hits and do enough damage and healing for a long fight. Most 25 mans you wouldn't even begin to be able to do. Less than 10% of the fights would even be possible at all, and only if you'd raided them extensively solo to see how it works.

[Bigdady92]

Hydross would actually be possible for a MB player, I think, but getting the tanks into resist gear and doing the transitions properly would be a huge pain. Still, if you go that right the DPS don't need to move much, and there's not a lot of damage going around. But that's assuming your entire team is in epics to help them survive some hits and do enough damage and healing for a long fight. Most 25 mans you wouldn't even begin to be able to do. Less than 10% of the fights would even be possible at all, and only if you'd raided them extensively solo to see how it works.The moving of hydross backwards and forwards and 'de-syncing' or not moving the frost tank when it's time to transition, all while holding down the 4 mob spawns, and healing the people who tank damage would astound me. Hell it took my guild several weeks just trying to find the right 25 people to do this right, getting 1 person to be able to do this right is like Ice skating up hill, some motherfarker is always trying to do it ;)

[Schwarz]

I really really really wanna try to burn down some of these 25 man bosses in wotlk.

High king has 760k hp and his four adds have 300k hp. If you bring 25 dps into there you might be able to down him before High King kills 25 earth elementals. If every shaman hit for around 2k with lightning bolt you could down each add in 6 casts (9seconds) so after ~40 seconds you would be moving onto High king how would die in ~23seconds.

So full fight over in less than a minute and a half. The question is how do you last that minute and a half.

edit:bloodlust would bring the time down significantly

[Rin]

Make friends with other boxers who have a variety of classes and do it the 5-man 25 man raid style way ;-)

[Sam DeathWalker]

Leveling has been slow cause I havn't been playing much. 1 group 1/2 level per hour? heh ... Im doing 2X or 3X better then that I am sure, but at low levels, we will see if its about the same number of killz per level at higher levels.

I really need to find some fast spawning eliets.

Im in barrens now, and going to head to "wetlands" (wherever that is) gnoll camps when I hit about 16 or so per posts on this forums they respawn fasts.

Mana has yet to be an issue, so anywhere there are lots of fast spawning mobs is best for me.

Mining and Smithing havnt turned out so profitable, if that guy didnt give me 1 gold I be in trouble. At any rate all the 10's have their fire, earth shocks and lightnight level 2 (fire level 1) spells. And the two that are level 12 gots their rez.

If I find an instant spawn mob thats like 8 levels in a few hours right there.

[kayb]

There is one alternative that noone has covered yet, but it's not possible until around level 60. I'm talking about full blown raid leveling. I haven't seen the scaling of xp in raids lately, but I remember back in the day raiding Zul'Gurub with a level 59 mage. I got like 20.000 xp for the whole instance (not a lot yeah) if my memory isnt completely washed.

But I'm not thinking about raid instances right now, I'm thinking about the super elites in Blasted Lands and Winterspring. If you remember the old Kazzak thrash mobs, scaled for 40 man raids. At some point when I was leveling my shammy team I went to Blasted Lands just to check out if it was possible to grind those. They were riddiculously hard, but I managed to kill one mob. Thing is, I can't remember what level I was when I tried this. With 26 guys, you should be able to grind those pretty smoothly, but I wouldn't even think about it until at least level 58. The elites in winterspring was not so hard, I remember soloing those at level 60 (singleboxing a hunter) and selling the priest epic questitem on AH for decent prices, but the elites in Blasted Lands is probably among the hardest non-instanced "generic" mobs in the game.

http://www.wowhead.com/?npc=8717#comments <--- This is one of the mobs I'm talking about. Should be fairly easily soloable for a level 70 character of any kind, the question is whether or not they're grindable at say level 58-60, with a decent xp reward.

[zanthor]

I really really really wanna try to burn down some of these 25 man bosses in wotlk.

High king has 760k hp and his four adds have 300k hp. If you bring 25 dps into there you might be able to down him before High King kills 25 earth elementals. If every shaman hit for around 2k with lightning bolt you could down each add in 6 casts (9seconds) so after ~40 seconds you would be moving onto High king how would die in ~23seconds.

So full fight over in less than a minute and a half. The question is how do you last that minute and a half.

edit:bloodlust would bring the time down significantlyThe mage has a point blank ae that would wipe all the earth elementals in about 3-10 seconds.

[kayb]

I guess it could be possible with 24 shammies and 1 hunter. Hunter leaves his pet at the instance entrance, misdirects everyone on his pet, and heroism/bloodlusted shammies + hunter goes to town on Maulgar.

Lets say you were able to reach 40.000 raid dps. It would take you about 20 seconds to kill maulgar. Should be possible with good enough geared toons. =D

Edit: If misdirection range is an issue, you could bring the pet closer, and send it to attack a target dummy or something that you previously popped there. Or simply have a person take aggro and run out of the instance (Edit again: Or even better, bring a beefy tank who could tank a few precious seconds before dying at the instance entrance). You'll need heroism/bloodlust in all groups, and probably around 10-15 earth elementals, so other ranged dps could work as well. Maybe 1 oomkin in each group for extra dps or whatnot.

Btw, when the first ever 25boxer is able to do this (you could use a simplified strategy of sacrificing 1 toon that you aggro with and run to the entrance with) I want credit for strategy! =D

[Zub]

we will see if its about the same number of killz per level at higher levels.
I can already tell you that this is not the case. The number of mobs to kill to level is increasing in levels exponentially.
when 20 mobs will grant you a level when you start, you'll need waaaaaaaay more kill at higher levels.
I invite you to read this:
http://www.wowwiki.com/Formulas:Mob_XP
http://www.wowwiki.com/Formulas:XP_To_Level

Basically, in Azeroth the XP given by a mob your level is (Char Level * 5) + 45. This means 50xp at level 1, 195xp at level 30, and 345xp at level 60
Since you're in a group of 5 you get (per mob, with some negligeable group bonus)
=> 50 /5 *1.4 = 14xp at level 1
=> 195 /5 *1.4 = 55xp at level 30
=> 345 /5 *1.4 = 97xp at level 60

You will need:
at level 01: .400 xp to level = 29 mobs to level to 2
at level 30: 38800 xp to level = 706 mobs to level to 31
at level 60: 494000 xp to level = 5093 mobs to level to 61. Good luck


I really need to find some fast spawning eliets.
Elites give double xp. so you'll still need a few to level, if you can ever find some spawning fast enough to keep up killing.


Im in barrens now, and going to head to "wetlands" (wherever that is) gnoll camps when I hit about 16 or so per posts on this forums they respawn fasts.
Wetlands is -------------------> That way (long way away, across higher level zones) Good luck lol
The wetlands is basically one of the level 20 Alliance zones. easy to access if you are Alliance, not so much when you're horde.
You basically need to go on the Eastern Continent, run south from Undercity through SilverPine (zone level 10-20), then east through Hillsbrad Foothills (20-30), then down Arathi Highlands (30-40).
I guess you can swim along the shores to avoid mobs, but this is going to take a while (and there might still be mobs in the water - no idea)
All this to get to a fast respawn point? not sure it's worth it at all.

If you plan to do this, i would suggest you swim ONE guy there (your highest level) while the others keep grinding mobs in the barrens or wherever, and then chain summon from your one guy once he's arrived.
Note that you'll be flagged for ganking all the way obviously.



Mining and Smithing havnt turned out so profitable
That's weird, i totally expected a miner level 10 would make ENORMOUS amounts of gold. lol /facepalm

Good luck with the learning curve, keep on posting, it's very entertaining.
-Zub

[Sam DeathWalker]

494000 xp to level = 5093 mobs to level to 61. Good luck

Well first Ill be doing Outland mobs I hope. So cut that in 1/2, and if elits, cut in 1/2, and if rested cut in 1/2, and thats for a full group. Looks bad but ... well hey thats da game.

Ok scratch wetlands ...

Ill have to do quests at around level 30 or so, I have questhelper already.

[Zub]

Well first Ill be doing Outland mobs I hope. So cut that in 1/2, and if elits, cut in 1/2, and if rested cut in 1/2, and thats for a full group. Looks bad but ... well hey thats da game.

Outlands will help for sure, but ou'll probably only be able to go there around 58ish. You'l need to get all the levels before that with azeroth mobs unfortunately

Note that you get 1 bubble of rested xp every 16hours of not killing stuff. Every 8 hours if you log in an Inn or capital city. So basically a night of no wow gives you about 1-1.5 bubble of rested xp. (a full level has 20 bubbles)
Also not that you cannot have more than 30 bubbles (1.5 level) of rested xp, and won't get much use of it if you play continuously.

I honestly suggest you check all the quests you walk by, already at your level. You don't need to take them all, but make sure you read them as some are free xp.

[Moorea]

I know you're not really listening but

a) do quests they give 10-20k xp when in your 20s/30s - that's 100s kills in 1 quest return

b) if you tag a mob but kill it with other groups you get less xp (check your combat log/experiment)

c) don't be discouraged by ppl saying it takes "x minutes"/hours to get to level Y and it takes you a lot longer
c.1) it's normal to take longer the bigger the group
c.2) I know wow fairly well having leveled 2 70s and a few alts to 50/60s before starting multi boxing and my first team took me 4 days 12h /played to get to 60 (not 2 days or whatever ppl do) - my new team took 8hours /played to get to 15; etc...

d) learn the game first: take 2 raf'ed guys (so its fast) and level those 2 to at least 60 to figure out how the game is before wasting time 26x. Or at least do 1 5x team and get it to l30 and learn from that for you next teams...

[Moorea]

some more advice:

e) don't train all the skills you will never have enough money for it all; only pick what you absolutely need on each toon (like only 1 totem on each); ignore stuff you won't use or just might use as you won't have enough money

f) don't bother with professions; they are nice/cool but it will sink too much time. in particular don't try any non gathering professions as they *cost* money. the only thing you could do maybe is get mining and herbalism on your 2 main I strongly suggest you level to 60 first to learn the game (and help out your other groups as needed later)

[dRiN]

Or I missed a big change in some patch, but I have to disagree on this being said.


b) if you tag a mob but kill it with other groups you get less xp (check your combat log/experiment)

If you tag the mob with group 1, and kill it with the power of group 2,3,4 and 5. And the mob is green/yellow/red to all in group 2,3,4 and 5.

You will not get penalty on the given XP for the kill. This would be the same as if group 1 would have solo killed the mob.

Correct me if Im wrong please, but I have done allot of leveling pre TBC and just a little in TBC.

[Tonuss]

Im in barrens now, and going to head to "wetlands" (wherever that is) gnoll camps when I hit about 16 or so per posts on this forums they respawn fasts.
The gnolls in the Wetlands do indeed respawn very quickly, I actually had problems with that when running a five-man team through the area for a quest. I couldn't finish looting kills before another gnoll respawned and attacked.

However, bear in mind that you'll be in contested territory with an alliance town nearby, and the closest horde town would be in the next zone to the north, which is higher level. You'll probably get your fill of PvP action once you get noticed. You might be respawning more often than the gnolls. :)

[Sam DeathWalker]

Ya you get full exp if all 25 are within a few levels of each other (mob not grey to anyone). People dont understand how fast 25 kill these mobs. I target, press one key and the mob is dead, Im using earth shock now (not even any casting time ... ) and I run a bit to the left or right of the mob, kill it and just keep going. My 2nd computer is faster then the 3-6 (and the main computer is the fastest but only has the paliden on it) so whichever groups guy I put on the 2nd computer ususally gets the kill even though all cast similtaniouly instant casts. So now I can control which of the 6 groups (2 then 4 and 5X4) gets the kill, well cept the main but he is to high anyway.

I wasted a lot of time on the stupidest quest last night, had to dive underwater one guy at a time, had to swime to a perfect spot, had to go back and forth (of course I was killing tons of mobs on the way). Then I have to kill 8 mobs of a certian kind and makes sure each individual guy loots so its 8 X 26, in a bad area for me. These quests are nuts for me. Even at 3400 (and killz are like 100 each) 34:1 ratio I can kill 34 mobs in like 6 minutes (6 seconds refreash and neverr stop moving).

It just target (one key) and press one key and mob is dead ... then 6 seconds laster do the same thing, and just never stop moving (so mobs are always in front). Its just SO much more efficient then quests.

[Zub]

People dont understand how fast 25 kill these mobs. I target, press one key and the mob is dead,
this is also true with only 5 toons you know
heck, i dual/tri box and i only have to click twice usually

[glo]

I target, press one key and the mob is dead, Im using earth shock now (not even any casting time ... ) and I run a bit to the left or right of the mob, kill it and just keep going.

Pretty sure everyone understands how fast you can kill single mobs. Most of us have that same advantage. I think what everyone is having a hard time with is how easy it would be to level that many characters and the fact that you are making it look hard.

One other problem you specifically might run into is if you ever let that ego of yours lose on your realm forums you won't even make it to 70, hell even if you don't I'm sure you will spend your fair share of time being camped after you get out of the starting zone.

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=10532263824&sid=1

[glo]

Ouch, just noticed the link on the wow forums to your page with the phone number displayed prominently. Hope you don't use that number for anything important because it's going to have 10 year old children playing with it constantly soon enough.

[Sam DeathWalker]

Camped lol ...

I come from SZ, the most vicious, childish, hacker infested server in history. I've seen everything and then some. The PvP server I am on is like CareBear Blubieville in comparison. I can play anytime I want in 24 hours. Camp away ... Ill be back later. Ya maybe I should take down the phone number.

[glo]

Camped lol ...

I come from SZ, the most vicious, childish, hacker infested server in history. I've seen everything and then some. The PvP server I am on is like CareBear Blubieville in comparison. I can play anytime I want in 24 hours. Camp away ... Ill be back later. Ya maybe I should take down the phone number.

You do realize you can't be attacked in the starting areas right?

[Seraphaw]

Camped lol ...

I come from SZ, the most vicious, childish, hacker infested server in history. I've seen everything and then some. The PvP server I am on is like CareBear Blubieville in comparison. I can play anytime I want in 24 hours. Camp away ... Ill be back later. Ya maybe I should take down the phone number.

You do realize you can't be attacked in the starting areas right?
Can you guys stop picking on everything that Sam types out? Did he say he was in a starter area? He might as well have ran somewhere else...

[Sam DeathWalker]

I went to barrens a lot, but no flag up. Went back to Mulgore to get my mining and herb collecting up (cant mine the mines in barrens). Going to get more spells and head back to barrens today. Im not looking for pvp while I am weak, but when it comes my way and I can't avoid it Ill do my best.

This quest looks good, just have to kill this mob 26 times but lots of exp. Ill take him out in a few levels:

http://wow.allakhazam.com/db/quest.html?wquest=884&source=live&locale=enUS

lots a quests seem to be in series and some of the quests in the series is not so good for boxers, that cuts down a lot.

[Saevio]

Those sorts of kill-quests you'll only have to do 6 times (I assume 5 groups of 5 shaman + lone pally? Well either way, one time for each group).

Every member of the group that gets credit for the kill can loot the quest item, however this is only true for this type of collection quest, the other type of collection quest (the ones with multiple items, like "collect 6 Elf brains") have to be done once for each character, which is why we skip those types, but this type, which is more like "Bring me that guy's face on a stick" is fine and easy XP.

Also, I find Wowhead ('www.wowhead.com') to be far nicer to navigate than Allakhazam (not to mention it's probably the most widely used WoW DB site), just incase you hadn't seen it before.

[glo]

I went to barrens a lot, but no flag up. Went back to Mulgore to get my mining and herb collecting up (cant mine the mines in barrens). Going to get more spells and head back to barrens today. Im not looking for pvp while I am weak, but when it comes my way and I can't avoid it Ill do my best.

This quest looks good, just have to kill this mob 26 times but lots of exp. Ill take him out in a few levels:

http://wow.allakhazam.com/db/quest.html?wquest=884&source=live&locale=enUS

lots a quests seem to be in series and some of the quests in the series is not so good for boxers, that cuts down a lot.

If you are going to grind to level anyway there isn't really any quests that are going to be worse as far as XP rate. Even the collection quests will help since you are killing the same mobs hundreds of times anyway you might as well loot the quest items and get a XP reward and maybe some gear after doing all that work. That's another problem with grinding you never get any gear. While gear is not a huge concern having no gear at all is going to slow your leveling quite a bit 40-70.

[Zub]

the ones with multiple items, like "collect 6 Elf brains"
ah Ha! That's a trick quest! There is no such thing as an elf brain.

[Sam DeathWalker]

Well I did a lot of trade skill stuff today, over 65 on mining and herbs and skinning. Cant really put it off cause I have no plans to come back to the lower levels later on. Now Im going to take a few hours or longers to really sort out the looting situation. Having one group get the kill then another guy go in for the skinning is a real joke. Its nice to loot greens and then either use or disenchant them. There is little doubt in my mind that trades will pay off later for sure. I really have to be able to choose which group gets the kill.

[glo]

Well I did a lot of trade skill stuff today, over 65 on mining and herbs and skinning. Cant really put it off cause I have no plans to come back to the lower levels later on. Now Im going to take a few hours or longers to really sort out the looting situation. Having one group get the kill then another guy go in for the skinning is a real joke. Its nice to loot greens and then either use or disenchant them. There is little doubt in my mind that trades will pay off later for sure. I really have to be able to choose which group gets the kill.

I realize you don't listen to anything anyone has to say but honestly and I am saying this with 100% certainty you are better off not worrying about a single profession. Not one will pay off in the long run for a 26 boxer. The amount of money you can make doing dailies after you level is many many many times what you will make mining or skinning or anything in the game.

10g is average for a daily. 10 x 26 == 260g and it will take you roughly 5 minutes to make that money. So 20 minutes for 1k gold(that is crazy btw). Being generous you will make maybe 1k gold in all the hours of mining, auctioning your goods, cleaning out your bags etc. Possibly you might want to level a miner later on but you are going to run out of RAF time and wish you had waited. Even at max mining/skinning/herbalism it probably isn't even worth your time to stop and do those things considering how fast you will make money, you can just buy everything and save your own time. This is based on level 70 daily quests, level 80 which is where you will end up actually playing for the first time will be more.

I 5 box and I run by mining/herb nodes all the time, it's barely worth the effort for me I know it won't be for someone with 26 accounts.

[Sam DeathWalker]

Let me read up on dailies, it would save a LOT of time not doing professions for sure.

[Zub]

Let me read up on dailies, it would save a LOT of time not doing professions for sure.
nah, dailies are quests. you don't want those.

[Sam DeathWalker]

Ok lets see if I got this right. Yes they are quests and are they serial or group? To take an example; This guy does these three quests in 30 mintues for 30 gold. Quests are by the group or by the individual? I can get the quests with just the group leader, or does each guy have to get the quest? Then they each get the googles or something and then each has to do a thing? Now "kill the ertherals" sounds like everyone can do it and only needs just once, then "get the plans", one for each guy or one for each group?



3 Quick Shattered Sun Offense Daily Quests
Posted by Nance on 15 Aug 08 - Archived in the category: Quests
This daily run takes me an average of 30 to 45 minutes to do. What’s good about this run is that the 3 quest givers are all in Shattrath City. The three dailies are The Multiphase Survey, Sunfury Attack Plans and Maintaining the Sunwell Portal.

Once you accepted the three quests, fly to Nagrand and do The Multiphase Survey. This is the easiest among the three because there is no grinding involved. You just have to use the Multiphase Spectrographic Goggles on the red clouds wandering around the Spirit Fields in the Oshu’gun area.

After you’re done with the 6 Multiphase Readings, fly out to Evergrove to do Maintaining the Sunwell Portal. Then use your flying mount and fly to Bash’ir Landing. You must kill the ethereals to get the Bash’ir Phasing Device. Then use the device to go into phase state in which you can now see the location of the mana cells. These mana cells are guarded by phases wyrms so be careful.

Once you get 10 mana cells, go to Area 52 to do the Sunfury Attack Plans. The plans are dropped by any Sunfury Blood Elf in the Netherstorm area. A good spot to do this daily quest is in Manaforge B’naar. Once the plans are dropped, you can hearth back to Shattrath.

This run will make you 30 gold richer. Plus you’ll receive 2 Shattered Sun Supplies which randomly drops a Badge of Justice.


Here is I guess a full list of dailies, I can't figure out which is group or must be done by each character single.

http://www.wowhead.com/?quests&filter=si=2;da=ja

This quest is listed in the friendly to MB guild http://www.thebrokentheused.net/kill/horde.php

http://www.wowhead.com/?quest=10836

So this kill 15 means that everyone in the group gets credit for a single kill? So I have to kill umm 15 X 6 mobs assuming I have 6 groups for 260 or so gold total?

[glo]

All of the dailies can be done in group and most are boxer friendly.

[Los]

1 thing though, dont you need gold to get your skills? that many account is that many more gold at a certain lvl

[Sam DeathWalker]

So far people have given me 3 gold so I spent that. I was hopeing through trades to get a bit self sufficient and not be begging all the time ... Ya you spend gold on trades but you make things that are worth sellback to vendor, and if you do your own mining and herb and skinning the material costs of the items you make is minimal.

[Zub]

So far people have given me 3 gold so I spent that. I was hopeing through trades to get a bit self sufficient and not be begging all the time ... Ya you spend gold on trades but you make things that are worth sellback to vendor, and if you do your own mining and herb and skinning the material costs of the items you make is minimal.

most trade items that sell are from plans that drop in the high level instances/raids. Gathering is probably your best bet as professions go

[TheBigBB]

Actually I would totally make your main screen a miner and skinner. SO easy to level and you can sell off your materials for a lot of gold. Sam will have huge issues with money, guys. I mean 26 mounts? He's not going to be rich just because he gets 26x the quests or whatever. He has 26 mouths to feed.

[Sam DeathWalker]

I am really considering that. I went miner/engineer (cant find trainer yet but there is one in da barrens) cause I figure my Pal gonna need dynimite, but I guess I can wait untill I get the shield.

I guess its just best to do both. RAF will do me untill 60 but then its a different game. I should be to 60 in more 60 days I hope. Maybe fewer alts, big deal. Sometimes you get lucky and the Trade skill will pay off other times you right next to the quest for easy golds.

[glo]

Actually I would totally make your main screen a miner and skinner. SO easy to level and you can sell off your materials for a lot of gold. Sam will have huge issues with money, guys. I mean 26 mounts? He's not going to be rich just because he gets 26x the quests or whatever. He has 26 mouths to feed.

He will if he tries to do professions, mounts, and gear pre 80. If he just levels and wears quest rewards he'll get to 80 fast and be able to buy everything he needs shortly after. He can easily make 8-10k gold a day with 26 characters. It'll take him a couple weeks to get epic mounts but everything else will come extremely fast.

[Sam DeathWalker]

Ok I did this quest:

http://wow.allakhazam.com/db/quest.html?wquest=884&source=live&locale=enUS

And I was grouped with my RAF guys when I did the kill and the turn in but I only got the listed 4350 EXP (no X3 exp). Why is that? I did only have to kill the mob one time per group though. I was level 13ish at the time.

[Ughmahedhurtz]

That quest is worth 1450xp normally. ;) You got the triple xp for it.

[Ruodhaid]

Yep if you use wowhead you can see normal exp values

http://www.wowhead.com/?search=Owatanka#quests

[Littleburst]

That quest is worth 1450xp normally. ;) You got the triple xp for it.http://www.wowhead.com/?quest=884

true. Allakazam seems wrong. Wowhead FTW.

[Ruodhaid]

I just looked you up on the armory sam, and you sould relly try to press N, that will get you to your Talents were you can spend some points to improve your chars your level 16 now so you have 7 talent points to spend, dont worry if you put them wrong, you can always unlern and reset at you class trainer

[zanthor]

Alla's is using collected data and not adjusting for RAF i'd wager.

Sam, @ 70 I can crank out 1K gold a day with 5 toons doing my dailies. This is done in about 2 hours time all said and done. I figure about half that time is running from point @ to point B... Spread that out to 5 groups of 5 doing dailies and I figure you'll be done in about 3 hours max and easily make 4K gold... I don't think I'd bother doing the memory game 5x for example...

The biggest difference between World of Warcraft and EverQUEST is that in EQ you grind, in WoW you QUEST.... I'll never forget how depressed I was after traveling from (Dark elf starting city, wtf... Nariak?) to the (erudin starting city...) just to get a fire beetle eye from a specific fire beetle... at level 14... the few coppers the quest rewarded me just made me realize it was Neverquest not Everquest.

[Tasty]

Make all 26 characters alchemists imo. At the moment on my server transmuting earth > water is 5-10g into 20-30g so if its an average of say 10g profit, thats 260g total for 10 seconds of work :P and I'm just assuming here but as there will be transmutes in wotlk I'm guessing they'll have another earth > water type transmute

[valkry]

Wow, 26 xmutes would be insane.

[Sam DeathWalker]

Well I have one of each of the 10 main professions now, is the alchmey limited by day or something? It is limited, think I look into that.

[Zub]

Well I have one of each of the 10 main professions now, is the alchmey limited by day or something? It is limited, think I look into that.
you must be very confident you'll be 60 before RAF ends to even take one crafting profession. Since you can level those in like 2 hours once you reach max level and have the funds. (which you'll have just by running 1-2 dailies x 26)

As was suggested before, get 2 gathering professions on your main (skinning + herb for example), maybe get the 3rd gathering profession (Mining) on your second main, and that's it.
you can easily catch up with other professions later.
Heck, RAF makes leveling so quick that you leave the zone before your profession reaches the level anyway, and you'll behind no matter what, unless you decide to remain in zones too low for you just to level your professions.
ow and 1 gatherer will not be enough for all professions. For example, 1 miner will not be able to feed a blacksmith, and engineer and a jewelcrafter. you won't have enough mats.


Alchemy has *some* recipes that have a cooldown. 23h cooldown is not uncommon, but really it should be the least of your worries since there are probably no items with cooldown before level 55+
again, just store alot of herbs you collect with your main, and use those when you start levelling alchemy, at 70. Or inscriptions for that matter, as i'm pretty sure Wotlk will be out by then

[valkry]

Depending on how long you play each day, I don't believe it will take you very long to hit 60. Most people with RAF hit it after like 2.5 days or so played time. So even if you lvled up 5 teams seperately, that's only 12.5 days played time which you would be surprised at how quickly that can be achieved playing full time lol. 60-70 will be a lot slower though.

[glo]

Depending on how long you play each day, I don't believe it will take you very long to hit 60. Most people with RAF hit it after like 2.5 days or so played time. So even if you lvled up 5 teams seperately, that's only 12.5 days played time which you would be surprised at how quickly that can be achieved playing full time lol. 60-70 will be a lot slower though.

With RAF a normal player will hit 70 in about 7 days played. With RAF it took him 2 days played to hit 13. I doubt very much this guy will hit the level cap before the expansion so 70 is really nothing more then a minor milestone he will be looking at level 80. Without that RAF bonus it's going to take him months to level. If he decides to keep playing with all these worthless professions that will turn to years.

Some very simple advice that will cut your leveling time down to a fraction of what it could take.. You need nothing from the auction hall. You don't NEED mounts and won't have the money for them for a long time anyway. The only thing that matters before the level cap is your XP rate and possibly your class quests, 26 boxing those aren't even all that important yet.

Yes you can make this complex but there really is no reason, leveling in this game is so easy.

Can you grind all the way to the level cap? Yep
Will it take forever and a weekend? Yep

Do nothing but quest and go to town to learn spells every few levels and you'll be at the level cap in no time. Spend time at the auction, hanging out showing off in town, or obsessing over little things like professions or gear and it will take forever.

This may not be the same advice I would give a casual player, in that case I would say to explore the game, play with the auction, smell the flowers and have all that kind of fluffy fun. I have to assume someone boxing 20+ characters wants to play the actual game which doesn't start until you hit the level cap.

[Zub]

Depending on how long you play each day, I don't believe it will take you very long to hit 60. Most people with RAF hit it after like 2.5 days or so played time. So even if you lvled up 5 teams seperately, that's only 12.5 days played time which you would be surprised at how quickly that can be achieved playing full time lol. 60-70 will be a lot slower though.
Remember that most people that have RAF'd already have some faint idea about the game. When Sam gets to the Sepulcher and Shadow Priest Allister (or whoever it is) tells him to go to Tarren Mill he'll be like.. hum, ok Tauren Mall, what zone is that in again? ah Hillsbrad. hum, now how to get there.. a a long walk. ow fuck those quests, i'll just keep killing worgs in Silverpine.

Remember how much time it took you to level your first 60 back in the days? and how stupid your gear and spec choices were back then ? yeah, that's what new players do. (not picking on anyone, i had the worst hunter on the server i reckon back then)
Now think how long it took to level your last 60 (without RAF). probably 1/8th - 1/10th the time.

Sam hasn't figured out talent points on his main toon yet, it's all part of the learning curve. Leveling 10 professions at lower levels is just added crap on top of an already full (x26) agenda.
I sure hope Sam gets to 60 before end of RAF, as i'd hate to see so much wasted effort x26.

In any case, should you blast through the levels or not, in both cases it will be much quicker to level your professions once you're at max level.

[gooberrocks]

Don't know if this will help you or not Sam...

http://www.wow-pro.com/node/927

It's a free leveling guide designed for a single character. I'd recommend reading a few levels ahead, picking and choosing the easy quests for you. You should be able to stick to the kill quests, and maybe a few of the simple collection quests (killing a mob for 1 item sort of deal).

I am dual-boxing a shaman and paladin. I've found this guide very helpful as it includes detailed maps and which zones to hit when. Browse around the site too, they have lots of profession guides, money making guides, and leveling guides for the entire game. Nothing is geared to RAF or multi-boxers, but hopefully it helps. Good luck!

[Sam DeathWalker]

All what everyone says is true. 1/2 my time or more so far has been getting the macros and interface and addons down. And I have been sepending a lot of time on professions, as I dont see any reasons not to. Im at level 14ish with say 1.2 days played (discounting macro/interface/addons time). I dont expect to be anywhere near as fast as others, but I do expect to hit 60 in 59 or so more days.

Also heh, I have monies IRL, you can rest assured that if I dont hit 60 in 59 days Ill just buy more accounts and have more rafs...

Pursuent to the good advise from this threa I'v moved miner and skinning to my main (150 plus skinning already). More garthers dosnt do anything, there is a limit of mines not a limit on miners. Just have to hit mines that don't increase your skillz to supply all the professions. Its not like two or more can mine the same mine at the same time...

Right now, after that quest piss me off, Im not doing quests for awhile. I could easy kill 50 mobs in the time I did that quest, 4300 exp is a joke. Of course later on things may very well change as the ratio goes over 50-1.

I just dont see any possible way to get enough herbs to do alchmeny on 26 guys, I collect ever time I pass a flower and just have enough for 1 alchmest ...

Im staying far away from the ah. I know that will be a huge huge time sink and now is not the time for that at all. I have 6 million plat in EQ (and have bought and sold items well over 40 million total) so I have the buy low sell high game down. And I can see that these dailies, with 26 guys going to the same spots at the same time surely can be lucretive.

I kill mobs 5 levels above me instantly, what possible use could talents do me, at this point, I cant kill faster then instantly .... And except for the pally everyone is basically naked (saves on duribility fees lol). None of my shaman has a single upgrade of gear.

I just hoping for an instant spawn mob, thats like 8 levels in a few hours ...

Ah well less talk more grind. 59 days left ...

[zanthor]

I kill mobs 5 levels above me instantly, what possible use could talents do me, at this point, I cant kill faster then instantly .... And except for the pally everyone is basically naked (saves on duribility fees lol). None of my shaman has a single upgrade of gear.Little known fact, if you can manage to kill them faster than instantly, time will flow backwords while XP flows forwards, thus extending your RAF timer...

Ya know guys, he has a point, why bother with talents x 26 when he can do 1500 burst damage at level 12...

[valkry]

Quests are where it's at. The class quests are annoying as fuck but past lvl 30 you start getting insane xp from quests. Also, I would recommend keeping gear upgrades from quests and wearing them, not like you will die enough to actually have to repair them (repairing is optional) and odds are you will replace it before it gets to 0 durability.

[Tasty]

I kill mobs 5 levels above me instantly, what possible use could talents do me, at this point, I cant kill faster then instantly .... And except for the pally everyone is basically naked (saves on duribility fees lol). None of my shaman has a single upgrade of gear.Little known fact, if you can manage to kill them faster than instantly, time will flow backwords while XP flows forwards, thus extending your RAF timer...

Ya know guys, he has a point, why bother with talents x 26 when he can do 1500 burst damage at level 12...I'm not familiar with shaman talents but are there any talents that would reduce downtime? Like talents that restore mana or something?

[valkry]

There are talents to reduce cd of shocks, and reduce cast time of lightning bolt/chain lightning. In his case, the shock talent might actually be worth getting. but yea, also a mana reduction one.

[Zub]

a number of things you might not know Sam:
- when on a mine or herb node, you can have several people 'tap' it, and skill up.
for example ToonA harvests the herb, gets skill up, but DOES NOT LOOT IT. toonB now can also gather the herb and also get a skill up. Toon3 no can also do it, and so on until someone collects the ore/herb.
You will however still only get 1 herb from that ore, but skill points on multiple toons. not sure if it helps you in any way, but hehe, just something to know.

Indeed, there is no point having more than 1 miner/herbalist/skinner in your group, as one guy can gather as much as 20.
That's also what i meant by having 1 gatherer not being enough to supply your blacksmith, engineer AND jewelcrafter. it's just not going to work unless you spend time on the AH or in lower level zones.

Regarding the talents, well for a start i believe they make things FUN, and add a little more gameplay.
That's why i was mentioning getting them on the main toon (the one that is actively played)
Also, as was stated, the early shaman talents reduce the cooldown on shaman shocks.
Also (bis) you are talking about durability loss (or the lack of, since you have no gear) which seems to indicate that you died at some point. Talents offer some ways to avoid that, as in more mana, more armor, wipe saving abilities etc.
Finaly, using talents allow you to *gasp* learn how to play. Of course you dont NEED talents when you have the 26xfirepower. but tell me, what will change at level 70? 80?
You will still have 26x the firepower and still blast through any mob/player you see. Do you intend to remain talentless until then? why not i guess. We're not playing the same game after all ;-)

[Ruodhaid]

This place might be good for you Sam.

http://files.filefront.com/Westfall+grindwmv/;11961476;/fileinfo.html

When you kill a mob another one spwans, so you done have to move, set up your 25 fire totems, and pull the mobs whit a dude from the grupe that needs exp, the mobs are level 12-14, when you hit 18 the level 12 mobs wont give exp anymore, but i used this from 12-18 and i was nice and fast, its alliance land, but no one ever goes there so dont worry about getting ganked, i didet see a singel player the when i did 6 levels there

The exp i get is from restet exp so you will get abit more whit your raf bonus

[Shogun]

This place might be good for you Sam.

http://files.filefront.com/Westfall+grindwmv/;11961476;/fileinfo.html

When you kill a mob another one spwans, so you done have to move, set up your 25 fire totems, and pull the mobs whit a dude from the grupe that needs exp, the mobs are level 12-14, when you hit 18 the level 12 mobs wont give exp anymore, but i used this from 12-18 and i was nice and fast, its alliance land, but no one ever goes there so down worry about getting ganked, i didet see a singel player the when i did 6 levels thereWithout watching the above I'll assume the mobs in question are Gnolls... There are similar camps in the Wetlands that have 3-7 mobs in them and respawn 2-3 mobs a second after you clear it, and pats in the area also respawn fast, nice n easy grinding spot. There's also 2 quests to kill said mobs in the direct vicinity but for alliance only.

Still, horde should be able to get there pretty easily, the spot is around here iirc: gnolls ('http://www.wowhead.com/?npc=1007') Just search that area and you'll find em... lvl 20-22 mobs so you can start there at like 18 I guess?

The above spawn rate was with me killing them with 5 toons, unsure as to how it'll stand up with 26 ^^ And you're going to die on your way there a few times

[Sam DeathWalker]

Im going to make a push to get to the level 22 camp in wetlands. Got to Orgamar last night bumbed 13 gold got all my needed spells (no totoms though). RAF back over to Silvermoon (used a level 1), got Jewcraft, set 3 guys flight path to silvermoon. Sent Pal south to wetlands, Dies in East Plagelands (a lot). RaF back to orgamar (sp) (forgot to set flight path). Gonna take zeplin to Undercity and try to get to wetlands from there with just the pal and then RaF the whole crew over.

[badashh]

um there are hardly any quests for the horde in wetlands, why go there?

[Marious]

Sam you can probably take a whole group, not all 26 but still, stick to the roads it might take a little longer but it will be less likely you will get attacked by mobs. Once you get off the Zep in UC you can run in get FP and then set about following the road, go west not east and follow the road this will take you through Silverpine Forest which is an area that is not used a whole lot either, this is a 10-20 area and only people that use it are undead as its there starting areas. You have a population of humans further south by Shadow Fang Keep that might be of interest to you, not sure what the spawn time of these guys are but they use to be elite back when i played horde. Stonetalon mountains and Ashenvale could be another option for you or maybe in a few levels they will be, there is never really a whole lot going on in Stonetalon Mountains at least not since last time i leveled there.

Well hope you can get your crew to 60 prior to your RAF going away.

/em Cheers Sam on!

[Zub]

AF back over to Silvermoon (used a level 1), got Jewcraft, set 3 guys flight path to silvermoon. Sent Pal south to wetlands, Dies in East Plagelands (a lot)
Lol!

[pomo]

Let me read up on dailies, it would save a LOT of time not doing professions for sure.

i wouldnt worry about dailies till you rounding the final lap of 70 . Remember when the expansion comes out those dailies will be giving XP and not Gold .

reason everyone is saying you need herb/mining/skining or some sort of professions is because at 30 60 and 70 you will be needed to buy mounts . 100 /500/900/5000g respectivly.

[puppychow]

lol the amount of time needed to level starts growing as you level up, by comparison most people can do level 1-10 in about an hour, and 10-20 in about 4 hours (real time, not /played). Its taken you 30 days to hit level 14, heck, its taken a week for you to get what, 1-2 levels?

If you continue on your current path you will not reach level 40 before RAF expires. You aren't really taking anyones advice, so this is a waste, but for what its worth forget professions, forget grinding, forget going to wetlands (why the heck would you go there) - stay in barrens until 20 doing quests, then go to ashenvale, then stonetalon, then 1k needles. Stop worrying about training skills or anything other than hoovering up quests and knocking them out. 25 people don't need new skills to kill stuff, the lowest level lightning bolt will kill anything. There are no elites to go chasing after until your late 50s, and even that is a waste of time. Quest, quest, quest.

Doesn't matter though, you are going to stick with your weird plan and you will be level 28 or so in 60 days. Maybe 60 by Feb next year.

[Sam DeathWalker]

I need cash for spells and what not ... so that means trades ...

Well its true, the wetland mobs spawn extremely fast, Im only limited by mana regen as far as killing goes. There is no moving around and basically no limit to the number of mobs. Kinda bad that the Pal can't really pull at range, might have to buff up one of the shaman to do the job but they die fasts in compare to pal. Well well see.


They are level 20-22 so sometimes take me two casts to kill but Only one wipe and the GraveYard isnt all that far. Some level 70 escorted me through the level 40 zone inbetween. Im loading up on linin and wool also and tailor is 50 plus already.

Ya its been slow but now I am poised to move forward faster, got a bunch of talents also so that mana use is 10percent less. Got some flight paths also (spechula and tarren something).

[Moorea]

lol the amount of time needed to level starts growing as you level up, by comparison most people can do level 1-10 in about an hour, and 10-20 in about 4 hours (real time, not /played). Its taken you 30 days to hit level 14, heck, its taken a week for you to get what, 1-2 levels?

If you continue on your current path you will not reach level 40 before RAF expires. You aren't really taking anyones advice, so this is a waste, but for what its worth forget professions, forget grinding, forget going to wetlands (why the heck would you go there) - stay in barrens until 20 doing quests, then go to ashenvale, then stonetalon, then 1k needles. Stop worrying about training skills or anything other than hoovering up quests and knocking them out. 25 people don't need new skills to kill stuff, the lowest level lightning bolt will kill anything. There are no elites to go chasing after until your late 50s, and even that is a waste of time. Quest, quest, quest.

Doesn't matter though, you are going to stick with your weird plan and you will be level 28 or so in 60 days. Maybe 60 by Feb next year.

It takes a lot more time than 5 hours to get to level 20. But this being said your conclusions about him getting to maybe level 30 before end of the raf are probably sadly true... unless he eventually starts to learn/listen (and level a duo to 60 to actually learn the game and help, etc... I don't want to repeat advice that is lost anyway)

[Sam DeathWalker]

Quests will have to be worth about 70 killz before I doing them again....

Dont forget my RAF will never run out cause if Im not 60 Ill just transfer to new accounts and RaF with more accounts again.

[Gomotron]

Quests will have to be worth about 70 killz before I doing them again....

Dont forget my RAF will never run out cause if Im not 60 Ill just transfer to new accounts and RaF with more accounts again.That's what's known as the "Brute Force" approach.

While most of us think that Sam just doesn't know WTF he's doing, I think that the only person that can even comment on whether or not he's doing things as efficiently as possible is Prepared, as none of us have had to deal with the logistics of moving 25+ characters around.

That being said, Sam, I agree with almost everyone here that you are way off base in thinking that grinding mobs for XP is the best way to go. I think you're getting hung up on doing one quest 6 times in a row (one for each of your groups). The best way actually would be to create a "circle" of quests that you take each group through so that by the time you are done with the circle of quests for the first group (BTW, kill quests only ftw!), the mobs will have respawned for you to do the cycle for the next group. It'll still take 6 times as long to XP for Sam as for the rest of us 1 group RAF'ers, but I still think this would be a better way to go than grinding mobs.

You NEED to remember that this is NOT EQ. Quests in WoW are the way to go to level up without boosting, although some might argue that grinding instances is better for higher levels.

[pomo]

i think the wall that sam is hitting is that he is new to the game . if he is doing all 26 at a time it will take a hell of a long time to level him which it is taking.



Sam you might want to try to just quest your guys up 4 or 5 at a time in packs . if you are attempting to attack mobs always red remember you will have resists going against you due to low levels .

as for the RAF never running out cause you will just swap them to new accounts and re-raf . That shouldnt be even something to consider your just wasting your time and your money regardless if you have enough to go around. separate your packs into 4-5 everything of your level should die in 1-2 lighting bolts each followed by a shock .

[Haruko]

I've been sitting back watching this thread & after serious consideration of commenting or not. Sam, you need to start thinking about "salvaged time" at this point. As many others have stated, time is running out day in & day out, I would listen to others & box 4-5 accounts, in 3 weeks at most you would have all 26 at 60 & be able to give others more levels within the RAF timeline. Trying to do 26 at one time is overkill. 4-5 man/female groups & once 60, then you can take all the time you need.

[Sam DeathWalker]

Well Im not saying Im never going to quest.

I'm where I want to be now and Ill see how it pans out. Ya its taking some time for sure, but this instant pop thing is very true. In fact I did get a single mob to pop instantly for a bit at one particular spot.

Ya its taking me two casts to kill these level 22 mobs, but this camp will hold me from 15-24 thats a lot of levels at one spot.

This basically converts mana to exp. Yes I need 5 X the exp everyone else does but I generate mana at 5 X everyone else also.

ALSO the end game is about battle and killing mobs and oppenents. As all boxers know facing the oppenent is critical, and learning every trick to get my guys faceing right isnt done by quests. Sure it should take about 100 reps to do it but don't you think that after 50,000 reps Ill have it down a bit better then a quester?

You wonder why it takes so long here is what someone posted in another thread:


If I had the funds right now I would go hardware in a heartbeat. The frustration of losing a clone while 5-boxing on my quad-core is growing especially now that all 5 have epic flying. This happens everytime I go through shat. I'm running all on one hard drive so that may be a factor. I've also experienced nasty video lag as a result of using PIP on keyclone so I only use it now when it will be convenient to log all wow's off then on again. I don't think it's an actual keyclone problem but a vista/wow and swapping sizes between two different video destinations (main screen/clone screen) because of lack of span mode in Vista.


It took me seven full days to solve that problem (although in cities I lose follow on occasion, but thats from slow computer not swapping sizes, as my other fast computer never loses follow). I switch between screens as fast as I can press the button ... , so ya I am slow but I am building a stong foundation for a building thats made to last.

Another thing all the questing in the world wont' tell you:

Which of these is better, for killing the most mobs fastest and why?:

/castsequence reset=15 Lightning Bolt, Earth Shock
/castsequence reset=15 Earth Shock, Lightning Bolt

[zanthor]

Which of these is better, for killing the most mobs fastest and why?:

/castsequence reset=15 Lightning Bolt, Earth Shock
/castsequence reset=15 Earth Shock, Lightning Bolt Neither.

Because the 6 second cooldown wont be up and that macro will stall on Earth Shock before trying to cast again.

I can't talk about leveling 5 groups at once, but I know leveling 1 group it's absurdly faster to quest than it is to kill... I can only imagine that doing a quest 5 times is going to be faster than killing the same amount of mobs for XP...

[Saithe]

True, but questing involves killing too, you're not just running around playing Paper Boy (though there is plenty of that), so it's not like you're an idiot who knows nothing about your class if you quest to 70, you'll learn everything a grinder did, just with a few extra days of time. You still end up doing a lot of killing and a bit of grinding, but you don't have to sit around waiting for mobs to respawn. And you can always murder everything that has hit points on your way to and from the questing area.
And because of all of the above, yes, questing WILL teach you what is good and what isn't. If anything, questing will force you to fight different kinds of enemies, not just one kind spawned over 9000 times. You'll fight casters, elites, ninja dinosaurs, and ones that fear/run around for no real reason, and that will make you a better player.

[glo]

Don't know why everyone keeps suggesting leveling the groups separate, that is definitely going to take longer. This is not all that hard. Take your group around and pick up all the quests, go do the quests that look like they will be fast. Use your shocks to insta-gib every mob you see along the way. Don't worry about professions, the auction hall, mounts, or even training more then once every 6-8 levels.

When you get to 70 you can mounts and prepare for the 70-80 grind.

Keep it simple you will have a lot less aggravation.

[kayb]

Keeping it simple would be to level his first 5 to 70 (lets say 20 days /played for a first timer - profession leveling included).
Then boosing the rest with the paladin. (3 days /played pr team to 60).
Total time would be around 40 days /played. Lets say 4 months or so. This would be my timing now without RAF on a 26man team. With RAF all the way to 60 you could probably reduce that time by around 20%, and add rested xp on top of that.

And from 60 probably run around as an angry mob killing everything in sight (including other players). At this point, it would probably be asskickingly funny. You could do Alterac Valley in the 60-70 bracket when WOTLK is out, and you'll probably be facing green geared guys, so you'll have a good chance at winning as well.

You'll never need more than 1 herbalism and miner. I had this on the paladin on my first multiboxing team. I toggled tracking for herbs/mining nodes on my follow button, so I was constantly switching between those 2, and was able to see most spawns that way. Eventually I stopped mining/herbing. Many reasons for that. First of all it got really boring and time consuming, secondly there wasnt much gold to be earned that way (compared to other sources like daily quests). I must confess: I never did daily quests for gold. Way too boring for me. I used to do heroics all day, and just buy valuable gems with Badges of honor, and sell those on AH. For many months now I've sold Amani Warbears (mount drop from Zul Aman instance) and earned 2000+ gold for around 3 hours work pr week. The reason I chose this method to earn gold isnt because it's the best way to make gold (you can probably even this with daily quests), but because it's fun. F.U.N. Raiding Zul Aman with shammies stacked with resilience = fun. You can tank thrashmobs easily if you got healers that are awake, and you don't need anything but fire nova and magma totems for aoe (On the 3rd boss we just pop all eggs at the same time, and just go to town with 5-6 fire elementals). With me it's all about fun factor. I dont do ANYTHING I dislike.

About profession. Sure, it's nice to have 1 of everything (I pretty much got that, only thing I dont have is a 375 blacksmith), but it's not important at all. What you need is an enchanter. That's it. The rest is just nice to have. But I have respect for what Sam is doing. Lets not forget that he's new to the game and some of us have played since classic beta. Sam wants to get to know the game, and he should take as much time as he needs to accomplish this. The game is huge, and it will take years to cover everything.

[puppychow]

ost pe
Don't know why everyone keeps suggesting leveling the groups separate, that is definitely going to take longer. This is not all that hard. Take your group around and pick up all the quests, go do the quests that look like they will be fast. Use your shocks to insta-gib every mob you see along the way. Don't worry about professions, the auction hall, mounts, or even training more then once every 6-8 levels.

When you get to 70 you can mounts and prepare for the 70-80 grind.

Keep it simple you will have a lot less aggravation.

Because Sam has been at it over a month now and he hasn't even broken what, level 16? You can get 1-60 in a weekend if you just focus on one team. He has less than 2 months now until RAF expires, he's not going to come close to 60 at his current pace. At 33 he's going to start getting ganked hard in the outdoors, and with 3.0 out in 2 weeks its just going to get worse as people are bored and hear about the mega-multiboxer.

Don't really understand either how getting a bunch new RAFs will help once his 90 days expire, since you only get 3x XP if you group with the other account and they are in the same level range. So if a level 30 RAFs a new level 1, they will be essentially useless to each other, except I guess for quest XP turnin, dunno if they fixed that yet - they definitely hotfixed mob XP 3x, unless the two are within 4 levels of each other no triple XP.

[Sam DeathWalker]

Ill pay to move 1/2 of my guys to the new accounts, and do a lineir RAF (13 old acocunts get 13 new accounts with 13 moved from closed accounts). Have to run 4 per group then but ....

Im level 16ish and doing good enough, the resists are starting to become less on the level 20-22 mobs and I got into their chest last night, even though they was repoping like mads. And my TS is doing good over 150 on skinning and 103 on herbs.

/castsequence reset=15 Lightning Bolt, Earth Shock
/castsequence reset=15 Earth Shock, Lightning Bolt

I mean which of the two is better, if you use only one of them.

Lets say all your guys are facing north and a mob (or human oppenet) attacks from the southwest. Where do you move the leader so as the attacker can be hit with your casts? Do you move backwards to the south? Do you turn around and move forwards to the south? Do you move backwards or forward to the southwest? or do you move backwards of forward the the west?

These are the things that will win for you in pvp, and things you will not pick up questing.

Sides I'd have to change my name from DeathWalker to QuestWalker ....

Someone said something about when you do quest you dont have to wait for mob repop:... its exactly the opposite: When I quest with 6 groups I have to wait for mob(s) to repop six times ... When I find a insta spawn camp I dont have downtime waiting for mobs to repop which is why I went to the wetlands.

Chanter is at 12 now, well have to get green items to get him better, or copper bars ... and of course I use all the greens I get on my pal first. Made some linen bags last night! Woot first stuff I could use.

Ahh well less talk more grind.

[Los]

too be honest, pay prepared to help you out ;), still level 16 means you are doing something wrong here m8!

btw both macro's are bad, but the shocks on their own button and the lbolts just on 1 macro

[valkry]

This late in the game, I find most professions to be money sinks, not money makers.

[glo]

too be honest, pay prepared to help you out ;), still level 16 means you are doing something wrong here m8!


Wow! Surprised I hadn't thought of this. If you are willing to spend months and even more money to level slowly and inefficiently you should just pay someone that has done it before to give you some clues! I bet he tells you to quest ;)

[Sam DeathWalker]

I need a way to gage progress, Ill start posting my main played time and level of lowest of all my guys and when the lowest of all guys is one level higher the played time again that way I can see how long its taking me actually.

[valkry]

There is a mod somewhere that tracks and records your played time for every single level so you can go back and check which lvls were fastest/slowest for you. you can get a graph of xp/hour and "% of lvl/hour" too.

[glo]

I need a way to gage progress, Ill start posting my main played time and level of lowest of all my guys and when the lowest of all guys is one level higher the played time again that way I can see how long its taking me actually.

I made you a gauge.

1...5....10....15....20....25....30....35....40... .45....50....55....60....65....70...75....80....85 ....90

I extended the gauge to 90 for you just in case you don't reach the level cap before they make a new expansion ;)

[Zub]

I need a way to gage progress, Ill start posting my main played time and level of lowest of all my guys and when the lowest of all guys is one level higher the played time again that way I can see how long its taking me actually.

I made you a gauge.

1...5....10....15....20....25....30....35....40... .45....50....55....60....65....70...75....80....85 ....90

I extended the gauge to 90 for you just in case you don't reach the level cap before they make a new expansion ;)
Sorry, but that gauge is pretty bad. i'll make a better one:

1.5.10..15..20...25...30....35....40.....45.....50 ......55......60.......65.......70..............75 .............80

I've stopped at 80 however. problem with the screen width.
Good luck

[flash2k6]

With RAF, honestly, you should just do a single team at a time. I just did 5 toons this weekend, 0-60 in 15 hours 31 minutes played. RAF is just too broken for words. With times like that, it would be faster for you to do 1 group at a time, get all 25 to 60 in a week. Then the RAF bonus goes away at 60, and use your leveling time from 60-70 to "learn" how to manipulate 25 toons.. 10 levels is more than enough time to get the flow down.. and then you won't have to spend stupid amounts of money moving toons or changing accounts.

-F

[Moorea]

I just did 5 toons this weekend, 0-60 in 15 hours 31 minutes played.

I know I'm somewhat slow but I just don't believe you can do 5 toons in 15 hours 31 minutes when it took me > 3days played. (unless what you did is 4 toons boosted and 1 toon raf gifted to get to 5)

[Shogun]

I just did 5 toons this weekend, 0-60 in 15 hours 31 minutes played.

I know I'm somewhat slow but I just don't believe you can do 5 toons in 15 hours 31 minutes when it took me > 3days played. (unless what you did is 4 toons boosted and 1 toon raf gifted to get to 5)Took me 2 days 12hrs or so on my first team and 2 days 17hrs on the second, and I spent alot of time AFK, hours even, and alot of questing could have been more efficient. 15hrs might be doable with some quest planning and no AFK time tbh

[Marious]

It took me roughly 3 days on each squad so far, on a PVP server so a lot of running to my body to get back to leveling, I always say damn it when they gank me but hey its a PVP server I don't go crazy when it happens. Lots of AFK time for various reasons, took me a bit to set up my crap, UI, macros and all that good stuff to make sure I was right on. Started team 3 yesterday since I bought my 5th account and now I can do the whole 5 man thing as soon as I get something up there from 1-60 and I can start running instances. Will probably be moving one of my toons over to that account I have 3 70's and a whole lot of 60-64's now so I should be able to move one guy over to the new account.

Sam hope everything is going good for you, last time I looked at your pally it was 17, I assume you are now in the 20's.

[glo]

I need a way to gage progress, Ill start posting my main played time and level of lowest of all my guys and when the lowest of all guys is one level higher the played time again that way I can see how long its taking me actually.

I made you a gauge.

1...5....10....15....20....25....30....35....40... .45....50....55....60....65....70...75....80....85 ....90

I extended the gauge to 90 for you just in case you don't reach the level cap before they make a new expansion ;)
Sorry, but that gauge is pretty bad. i'll make a better one:

1.5.10..15..20...25...30....35....40.....45.....50 ......55......60.......65.......70..............75 .............80

I've stopped at 80 however. problem with the screen width.
Good luck

Show off

=P

[Moorea]

I just did 5 toons this weekend, 0-60 in 15 hours 31 minutes played.

I know I'm somewhat slow but I just don't believe you can do 5 toons in 15 hours 31 minutes when it took me > 3days played. (unless what you did is 4 toons boosted and 1 toon raf gifted to get to 5)Took me 2 days 12hrs or so on my first team and 2 days 17hrs on the second, and I spent alot of time AFK, hours even, and alot of questing could have been more efficient. 15hrs might be doable with some quest planning and no AFK time tbh


yes so maybe someone can do 1 day 1/2 by being really quick and efficient - but I don't believe 5 man 1-60 in 15 hours is possible (without boosting or gifting) - I think the "1 day" or "2 days" is missing in front of the 15 hours 31 minutes

[glo]

I just did 5 toons this weekend, 0-60 in 15 hours 31 minutes played.

I know I'm somewhat slow but I just don't believe you can do 5 toons in 15 hours 31 minutes when it took me > 3days played. (unless what you did is 4 toons boosted and 1 toon raf gifted to get to 5)Took me 2 days 12hrs or so on my first team and 2 days 17hrs on the second, and I spent alot of time AFK, hours even, and alot of questing could have been more efficient. 15hrs might be doable with some quest planning and no AFK time tbh


yes so maybe someone can do 1 day 1/2 by being really quick and efficient - but I don't believe 5 man 1-60 in 15 hours is possible (without boosting or gifting) - I think the "1 day" or "2 days" is missing in front of the 15 hours 31 minutes

I've done a 5 man group to 60 in 26 hours so I'd have to say with the RAF bonus and gifting 15 is easy enough.

[Ughmahedhurtz]

My average over the last three groups is about 2 days, 5 hours /played doing straight quests 1-60. Huntards were the fastest, but the druids and locks were close behind.

[Sam DeathWalker]

Ok I kinda times myself last night. Its ONE HOUR to get ONE LEVEL on ONE GROUP, thats with looting almost everything.

Nothing compared to what you guys are all talking about but it might get faster as the mobs are no longer red. Well someone says 2 days 5 hour 1-60 so thats umm 55 hours... well thats kinda my one hour per level.

But as you all say you need more killz per level as the levels get higher, BUT if your mana regen and damage per mana goes up proportionally equal to the number of extra killz you need then ...


At instant poping camps you can simply convert your mana regen to exp. If your mana regen and damage per mana scales propotionally with the extra number of killz per level then you will still get one level per hour. I don't know if it does or not.

Back to the grind.


Went from 60 to 150 on tailor last night though heh ...

[valkry]

Not many instant popping camps past those wetlands places. The thing is, at lvl 20 the xp from quests is increased by 30% and at lvl 30 the xp required to lvl is reduced by 30% (or vice versa, I forget) so it starts getting faster. Also more and better quests.

But yea, you could spend about >2 months lvling them all to 60 at once, or you can spend 1 week max for each team lvling them to 60 as the only group present.

[Pent]

Interesting, I'll be watching this thread closely...

I agree with your leveling method of grinding; as clicking quest givers on 26 characters would be painful and makes quest acceptance/turn-ins even longer then most people in this thread expect.

Getting your paladin to 70 and then boosting all your other characters would probably be way faster though, there just aren't enough elite outdoor mobs in wow, so 5-man groups pretty much max out the efficiency of leveling.

[valkry]

The problem with grinding is that he only gets xp for every 5th mob, as he has to rotate the groups who tag the mob.

[Tasty]

That and even with RaF I found grinding past level 10 to be ... mortifying

[valkry]

Yup, past lvl 30, getting like 200 xp per mob kill, or handing in 5 quests at once after doing a quick circuit for about 15k xp each. Yea, grinding ftw.

[Sam DeathWalker]

Well at level 30 a different approach might be warrented we will see ...

[glo]

The problem with grinding is that he only gets xp for every 5th mob, as he has to rotate the groups who tag the mob.
There is no way I would even consider grinding like that, not a chance. It's going to take roughly 10 times the amount of time it would take to quest.


Ok I kinda times myself last night. Its ONE HOUR to get ONE LEVEL on ONE GROUP, thats with looting almost everything.

Nothing compared to what you guys are all talking about but it might get faster as the mobs are no longer red. Well someone says 2 days 5 hour 1-60 so thats umm 55 hours... well thats kinda my one hour per level.
It'll take many times longer for each level once you get past the starting areas.


But as you all say you need more killz per level as the levels get higher, BUT if your mana regen and damage per mana goes up proportionally equal to the number of extra killz you need then ...
Past about 25 you won't find instant spawning mobs so it'll come down to time running between mobs, your xp rate will drop down to about the same as a group of 2-3 dps would get. If you are stopping to loot you will be slower then that 2-3 man group since your whole group stops to loot instead of 1/3 of it stopping. Grinding is pretty silly in wow, in this case it is silly x26.



Went from 60 to 150 on tailor last night though heh ...
Once you get to the level limit and have a good flow of money you can power level a profession to max in about 2 hours.

[glo]

After reading your last few posts and checking out your progress(or lack thereof as the case may be) I have update the leveling meter I made for you.

1...5....10....15....20....25....30....35....40... .45....50....55....60....65....70...75....80....85 ....90....95....100

In case you are still clinging to the idea of grinding to level here is another chart for you..

60 - 494000
61 - 574700
62 - 614400
63 - 650300
64 - 682300
65 - 701200
66 - 734100
67 - 753700
68 - 768900
69 - 779700
70 - 815000

These are the levels you will be doing without RAF bonus. If you aren't used to questing by the time you get to this point that portal to outlands is going to be like a brick wall.

The xp per level in WOTLK may or may not be finalized but right now its 26,106,500 to go from 1-80. Good luck with that grind.

[valkry]

What you should have done is organised help from someone on these forums, split your guys up into teams of 4, and gottem them to run you through instances most the way to lvl 60. This method of boosting requires no actul skill from you apart from movement. Also, if you played about 8 hours a day doing this constantly, you would have a team to 60 every 3-4 days (26 - 36 hours of boosting).

In fact, if you had done this from the start, you would be lvl 60 now and in outlands (where the real learning begins) getting awesome gear. In return for this person running you through...well, 26x dailies is a lot of money, I'm sure you could have come to agree to a reaosnable price.

[Tasty]

What you should have done is organised help from someone on these forums, split your guys up into teams of 4, and gottem them to run you through instances most the way to lvl 60. This method of boosting requires no actul skill from you apart from movement. Also, if you played about 8 hours a day doing this constantly, you would have a team to 60 every 3-4 days (26 - 36 hours of boosting).

In fact, if you had done this from the start, you would be lvl 60 now and in outlands (where the real learning begins) getting awesome gear. In return for this person running you through...well, 26x dailies is a lot of money, I'm sure you could have come to agree to a reaosnable price.To each his own though :) if he's enjoying himself I don't see the harm. My question is and I vaguely recall this being answered somewhere in one of these threads, do you work or have you retired. If retired that would give you more time than the average person to level I guess :)

[valkry]

What you should have done is organised help from someone on these forums, split your guys up into teams of 4, and gottem them to run you through instances most the way to lvl 60. This method of boosting requires no actul skill from you apart from movement. Also, if you played about 8 hours a day doing this constantly, you would have a team to 60 every 3-4 days (26 - 36 hours of boosting).

In fact, if you had done this from the start, you would be lvl 60 now and in outlands (where the real learning begins) getting awesome gear. In return for this person running you through...well, 26x dailies is a lot of money, I'm sure you could have come to agree to a reaosnable price.To each his own though :) if he's enjoying himself I don't see the harm. My question is and I vaguely recall this being answered somewhere in one of these threads, do you work or have you retired. If retired that would give you more time than the average person to level I guess :)
This is aimed at Sam yea? Cos I work fulltime still lol. I still manage to get out quite a few hours a day of playtime though, helps that I don't sleep much :P

[Tasty]

What you should have done is organised help from someone on these forums, split your guys up into teams of 4, and gottem them to run you through instances most the way to lvl 60. This method of boosting requires no actul skill from you apart from movement. Also, if you played about 8 hours a day doing this constantly, you would have a team to 60 every 3-4 days (26 - 36 hours of boosting).

In fact, if you had done this from the start, you would be lvl 60 now and in outlands (where the real learning begins) getting awesome gear. In return for this person running you through...well, 26x dailies is a lot of money, I'm sure you could have come to agree to a reaosnable price.To each his own though :) if he's enjoying himself I don't see the harm. My question is and I vaguely recall this being answered somewhere in one of these threads, do you work or have you retired. If retired that would give you more time than the average person to level I guess :)
This is aimed at Sam yea? Cos I work fulltime still lol. I still manage to get out quite a few hours a day of playtime though, helps that I don't sleep much :PNot you idiot :P

Although even retired you prolly wouldn't want to spend all day on wow lol

[valkry]

Fark, if I wasn't working, I'd be out playing golf or 10 pin bowling or hitting up the pool bars. Would be awesome. More time for a propper girlfriend too. As it is, my lifestyle doesn't fit one right now, maybe next year when I move.

But Sam...get yourself some boosting just to help you along a bit. Like get it up to 30 or something.

[Zub]

Ok I kinda times myself last night. Its ONE HOUR to get ONE LEVEL on ONE GROUP, thats with looting almost everything.

Nothing compared to what you guys are all talking about but it might get faster as the mobs are no longer red. Well someone says 2 days 5 hour 1-60 so thats umm 55 hours... well thats kinda my one hour per level.

We really need to make some list of the funniest, most naive Sam Deathwalker ideas about wow. That one probably comes first.

[glo]

Ok I kinda times myself last night. Its ONE HOUR to get ONE LEVEL on ONE GROUP, thats with looting almost everything.

Nothing compared to what you guys are all talking about but it might get faster as the mobs are no longer red. Well someone says 2 days 5 hour 1-60 so thats umm 55 hours... well thats kinda my one hour per level.

We really need to make some list of the funniest, most naive Sam Deathwalker ideas about wow. That one probably comes first.

You have to understand, anyone that has leveled a character to 20 currently has more knowledge of the game then he does. He is amazingly resistant to suggestion as well so I imagine he will get to the level cap in a couple years with the same level of knowledge he has now. I really wish I could think of a reason to level that many characters just to wreck his amazing ego ;)

[Shogun]

Long post incoming.

Making an unbiased post based purely on actualy figures for XP gains in kills and quests, the conclusion I hope to arrive at logicaly is questing > grinding, but as I said, I'm presenting the numbers as they are for now...

Notes: "Orange" con mobs will give the Max XP per kill achievable, red will reward the same XP as a +4 orange mob
All quest XP gains listed are for same level quest, ie a level 20 quest is rated as level 20, not attainable at 20 and actualy 24+
XP for quests are averages and trying to ignore dungeon quests.
This isn't a guide, just a comparison between grinding and questing, and an outline of XP in WoW
If there is any doubt between 2 figures, or any rounding off to be done, I've done it in the favour of grinding, IE rounded UP mob XP and given lower XP numbers

Note on Questing: The XP listed per quest obviously does not take into account any of the following:
Travel/discovery XP gained
Killing mobs en route to and from the quest giver/location for completion
Grinding mobs while at said location for the actual quest (Say you need to kill 10 mobs, Sam will need 10x6)
Mobs you kill for drops, if the drop rate is high, Sam should take these as he isn't opposed to grinding a while
Waiting for a quest mob to respawn is more grinding

Reading the above, you can see questing is in fact a combination of grinding just as Sam is doing, but with added XP chunks for quest completion, the only real factor is whether or not the travel time is worth that chunk of XP at the end.

Sources:
XP formulas: Wowwiki: Mob XP Formulas ('http://www.wowwiki.com/Formulas:Mob_XP#Basic_Formula')
XP to level: Wowwiki: XP to lvl Formulas ('http://www.wowwiki.com/Formulas:XP_To_Level')
Quest XP: Wowhead ('http://www.dual-boxing.com/forums/www.wowhead.com') (filter quests by faction and level)

Lets start of with about where Sam is now, level 20, and then I'll jump to 30, 40 and 50 with the same figures.

Level 20:

A character on their own, with no outside help (or outside help of an equal level player that does not "leech" xp):

Equal level mobs: (20 x 5) + 45 = 145 XP per kill
Orange +4 mobs: [(20 x 5) + 45] x 1 + [0.05 x (Mob lvl - CL)] = 145 x 1.2 = 174 XP per kill

A group of 5 as XP varies by group size, and again no outside help:

Group of 5 - equal level mobs:
145/5 x 1.4 = 41
41 x 3 = 123 XP per mob with RAF

Group of 5 and orange +4 level mobs:
174/5 x 1.4 = 49
49 x 3 = 147 XP per mob with RAF

Average quest XP rewards vary, lets say the lowest for any normal quest is 1050 and the most is 1950 at level 20 for a yellow con quest, this is 3150 to 5850 with RAF. If you take 147 as your average XP per kill then this is 21-40 kills per quest

You will need 20800 XP to level to 21, therefore 141 mobs. As little as 4 quests, or as many as 7 (XP from "other" gains not counted, as mentioned above)

Level 30:

A character on their own, with no outside help (or outside help of an equal level player that does not "leech" xp):

Equal level mobs: (30 x 5) + 45 = 195 XP per kill
Orange +4 mobs: [(30 x 5) + 45] x 1 + [0.05 x (Mob lvl - CL)] = 195 x 1.2 = 234 XP per kill

A group of 5 as XP varies by group size, and again no outside help:

Group of 5 - equal level mobs:
195/5 x 1.4 = 55
41 x 3 = 165 XP per mob with RAF

Group of 5 and orange +4 level mobs:
234/5 x 1.4 = 66
49 x 3 = 198 XP per mob with RAF

Average quest XP rewards vary, lets say the lowest for any normal quest is 1200 and the most is 3650 at level 30 for a yellow con quest, this is 3600 to 10950 with RAF. If you take 198 as your average XP per kill then this is 18-55 kills per quest

You will need 38800 XP to level to 31, therefore 195 mobs. As little as 4 quests, or as many as 11 (XP from "other" gains not counted, as mentioned above)

Level 40:

A character on their own, with no outside help (or outside help of an equal level player that does not "leech" xp):

Equal level mobs: (40 x 5) + 45 = 245 XP per kill
Orange +4 mobs: [(40 x 5) + 45] x 1 + [0.05 x (Mob lvl - CL)] = 245 x 1.2 = 294 XP per kill

A group of 5 as XP varies by group size, and again no outside help:

Group of 5 - equal level mobs:
245/5 x 1.4 = 69
69 x 3 = 207 XP per mob with RAF

Group of 5 and orange +4 level mobs:
294/5 x 1.4 = 83
83 x 3 = 249 XP per mob with RAF

Average quest XP rewards vary, lets say the lowest for any normal quest is 3150 and the most is 5450 at level 40 for a yellow con quest, this is 9450 to 16350 with RAF. If you take 249 as your average XP per kill then this is 36-65 kills per quest

You will need 74300 XP to level to 41, therefore 298 mobs. As little as 5 quests, or as many as 8 (XP from "other" gains not counted, as mentioned above)

Level 50:

A character on their own, with no outside help (or outside help of an equal level player that does not "leech" xp):

Equal level mobs: (50 x 5) + 45 = 295 XP per kill
Orange +4 mobs: [(50 x 5) + 45] x 1 + [0.05 x (Mob lvl - CL)] = 295 x 1.2 = 354 XP per kill

A group of 5 as XP varies by group size, and again no outside help:

Group of 5 - equal level mobs:
295/5 x 1.4 = 83
83 x 3 = 249 XP per mob with RAF

Group of 5 and orange +4 level mobs:
354/5 x 1.4 = 100
100 x 3 = 300 XP per mob with RAF

Average quest XP rewards vary, lets say the lowest for any normal quest is 6800 and the most is 8500 at level 50 for a yellow con quest, this is 20400 to 25500 with RAF. If you take 300 as your average XP per kill then this is 68-85 kills per quest

You will need 120900 XP to level to 51, therefore 403 mobs. As little as 5 quests, or as many as 6 (XP from "other" gains not counted, as mentioned above)

Conclusion:

As you can see, once you take into account that alot of quests have you killing mobs, give you rewards, a massive XP bonus and that as you level the ammount of XP you need increases dramaticaly, the ammount rewarded by mobs does not: The ammount rewarded by a mob doubles more or less from 20 to 50! The ammount of XP you need is almost 6 times that needed at 20!

I can see why you'd see grinding as better at the sub-20 levels, but above 20 they increased quest XP given in a recent patch, and lowered XP needed per level.
Questing also sends you on from zone to zone with "fedex" type quests. With creative hearthstone settings and lvl 1 alts parked all over the world your travel time is cut down by alot, plus Shaman get a 15min Hearthstone spell iirc.

I did have more to add, but my lunch is ready :P

I'll add more as I think of it, please read through the above and think about it... Questing is not hard, grab Lightheaded and Cartographer adons, these will tell you where quest items/mobs are and help you navigate to them. If not use Wowhead. Grab Jamba ('http://www.dual-boxing.com/forums/index.php?page=Thread&threadID=12887') for quest taking/finishing and other Multiboxing assistance.

Hope this helps...

[Shogun]

Any feedback or corrections to the above are more than welcome btw, and I'll happily edit to add additional information as required

[glo]

Great post Shogun. Questing is of course much faster in WoW but I think the benefits you get from leveling this way are even more important. Gear, money, and reputation. All things you will spend even more time having to get later.

[zanthor]

You have to understand, anyone that has leveled a character to 20 currently has more knowledge of the game then he does. He is amazingly resistant to suggestion as well so I imagine he will get to the level cap in a couple years with the same level of knowledge he has now. I really wish I could think of a reason to level that many characters just to wreck his amazing ego ;)Disclaimer: I haven't played wow, even thought about playing wow, or any Sony MMO since Beta 3 of wow hit my mailbox.

Here's the thing, Sam came from Neverquest, in Neverquest you grind, grind, grind and grind some more. The absolute best way to accomplish ANY advancement in Neverquest is to kill mobs over and over and over. Mobs don't leash like they do in WoW, so you can mount someone up, run all over a dungeon fuck and be gone and manage to create a HUGE train of mobs that comes running in... blow them up, and repeat as necessary. There were many places when I left EQ that you could AE grind, and it was amazing xp.

I got like 1k xp for doing a fedex quest somewhere in the barrens when I first started in WoW and realized how much it didn't suck... you quest from 1-Levelcap FASTER than you could possibly grind it. The ONLY exception to this is if you have Levelcap friends/alts who are willing to fund/do the work for you.

@ Samdeathwalker:
My RAF expires in 27 days. I only did 2 RAF accounts linked to 2 vet accounts, however in that time I have leveled 4 shaman 1-60, 5 shaman 60-70. I was stupid and did NOT grant levels to the 5th shaman until the others were 64, this cost me grouped quest xp (at my own choice) for 4 shaman for two full zones (Zangermarsh and Terrokar). I have also leveled 4 warlocks to 40 in this time.

I have a full time job, two hours of every day is shot with the commute, friends, family, etc... I play primarily weekends, and lightly on the weeknights. I'd say average 2 hours a night M-Thurs, and 16 hours between saturday and sunday. So over the last two months of RAF I'll call that 9 days played total. (Which matches pretty closely to my played time in game, but I'm at work so i can't tell you what that is.) I specifically took the 5 shaman from 60-70 because I intend them to be my main focus in Lich King, that was by far the longer trek (rather than 1-60).

Issues Sam is facing that 99% of us aren't or ever will:
Money - Sams got none in game. With no source of gold he does need to gather, rotating tags on 5 groups has got to be a total bitch for looting. Skinning is based on the ability to loot, etc. Skill Training - With RAF I leveled so damn fast I couldn't afford training. All said and done I leveled 5 characters to 70 and earned 8K gold. The majority of this was in the last 20 levels with auctions that sometimes took days to sell, a few lucky blue drops, etc. The majority of this also went right back into the characters for Mounts, Epic Mounts, Flying Mounts, Gems, Enchants, Etc. Since Sam doesn't have funding, he's counting on a very limited selection of skills, this is fine, but if he's casting downranked spells even 25 of them will take longer to kill single mobs, etc... Inexperience - Sam doesn't have the benefit of having leveled in WoW before. I'm a vet of MMO's, I've played since UO hit retail, I've beta tested every MMO that hit the shelf between UO and WoW, and a few after WoW hit... I've also played retail on most any that were available Pre-WOW. All this experience tells me that no other game levels like wow. I never found such a need to quest as you have in WoW. I don't kill ANYTHING in wow while I'm leveling unless I'm questing for it. Sure, I'll kill shit thats NOT required for a quest, but it's because it's between point A and B, both being parts of my quest. Egomania - Sam is an egomaniac, his ego is massive, huge, it has it's own guild... This ego means that it's going to be hard for Sam to listen to those who are offering genuine advice. Massive Multiboxing - No one here but Prepared has busted out 20+ accounts at a time... if they have, they sure as hell aren't talking about it.That said, Sam would be far better off...

Questing - You get kill xp the same, and huge lumps of quest XP along the way. Reds give the same XP as oranges which give similar XP to Greens... the added effort/resists/etc aren't worth it. Quest. Leveling at least one 5 man team to 60 first. - Get to 60 on five toons, repeat with another 5, repeat again and again and one final time. Grant the pally to 60 if you care about a pally by the time you are 60 on the shamans... i've long viewed him as a wasted slot. I figure thats 5 weeks of play being a noob and having limited money. Teh first 5 man team will probably take 2 weeks, the others less and less time. Buying a friend - it's illegal to buy gold, it's illegal to buy powerleveling, it's not illegal to pay some schlep a sum to transfer to the server and happily help you by being a mentor and paying for skills out of their own pocket (I suppose this could be a gray area, but as long as they give their time on their account it's just an agreement between two humans about how to spend their digital time). Another way would be to trade something highly valuable (how are the Zevra codes delivered, can they be used on another account that the one that they were given like a trading card can?) for lots of gold... really you need about 1K gold to get the 26 toons to 60 without buying ALL your spells, just the important ones.There, got it out of my system.

[badashh]

I think everyone that has posted is frustrated with Sam refusing to listen to us or follow our suggestions. I think the above 2 posts lay out clearly what needs to be done to make things more effiecient, but Sam won't listen. Oh well, we try not to tell people how to play just make suggestions. I'm moving over to Prepared's thread, it's much sunnier over there.

[puppychow]

doesn't really matter, past 20 you are fresh meat for PVPers, and he will hit a brick wall when a few people decide to spend hours camping his toons in STV and elsewhere (wetlands, lol). Thats the nice thing about having multiple teams to level (and boosting), if you do get camped you can just log in to the second team and level them merrily somewhere else.

It is kind of ironic though, all this discussion and competition to essentially replicate chinese sweatshops. I remember reading about some gold farming companies in china where 1 guy is monitoring 50+ (obviously botted) accounts, and they have dozens of such guys, and to them its just a decent job where they get paid $10/day or whatever. I wonder what some of them would think about crazy Westerners wanting to play 20+ accounts at once :)

[Sam DeathWalker]

Let me respond to the very intelligent Shogun post, as this kind of math is in fact the way to determine what is better.

I'm at level 20 (well less actually) now. And as he correctly states its 21-40 killz per quest. Lets take 35 (cause of extra exp you get during the quest) as a resonable figure. Do I quest or not?

The facts that you have left out are mana regen per second and dps and mob HP. These 35 kills are of mobs of about 500HP each. Lightning level 3 is about 1 damage per mana. Thus to kill one mob you need 500 mana, lets assume you need 1000 mana for resists and what not. Lightning can be cast every 5 seconds or faster assuming instant pop mobs. Mana pool is about 400. Level 3 lightning is about 60 mana. (this is from memory so I could be wrong). From experice I would say that 400 mana regens in less then one minute. Lets say 10 mana per second, its fairly fast. 25 X 10 mana per second is 250 mana a second or sufficient mana to do 125 damage per second or to kill a mob every 4 seconds ...

35 mobs X 4 seconds is 2.2 minutes to get the same exp as a quest ... To get 26 its 1 hour (actually its longer with looting time and trade skillz time).

Ok does a quest take less then or more then one hour to complte 6 times?

Of course as levels go up more mobs are needed but then again how much does your mana regen go up and your damage per mana go up? If you are generating enough to kill a mob every 2 seconds well ...

At any rate when I hit level 30 Ill go over the figures again.

[Shogun]

The mana/damage ratio is all well and good when you're looking at 1 toon, or even 5. But at 26 toons I'd be more inclined to look at it as 1 cast. There isn't a none-elite mob in the game that at same level will withstand 25 lightning bolts...

Example:

Generic bear ('http://www.wowhead.com/?npc=2351') 670 Hp at lvl 21
Level 20 Lightning Bolt ('http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=915') does 83-95 damage
Most damaging shock at 20 is Frost Shock ('http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=8056') 89-95 damage (highest damage as most recently obtained)

I'd argue that the team tagging mobs should be casting a shock, while the remaining 5 teams begin lightning bolt, either way lets assume that all the spells do around an average of 70 damage taking into account some partial and some full resists.

25 (you have 1 pali iirc?) x 70 = 1750 damage - this is also known as dead bear...

So it all comes down to how fast you can target with the main, assist on the other 25 characters, cast a 1.5sec spell and repeat (add time to loot if you're looting)

Anywhere between 3 and 5 seconds sounds about right.

At 400 mana each character and a spell cost of 115 mana you'll get less than 4 casts off.

Lets assume that you allow 3.5 to 4 seconds so that you get mana regen between kills (it kicks in even while casting, until the cast ends iirc)

Later you'll have talents that can massively increase your up time, and blessing of wisdom will also help alot here.

Any items that give your shamis +intellect/spirit/mana regen are great at any level while grinding or questing.

If you are pausing now n then to regen mana, it's not going to make a huge dent in your kill/hour ratio as you're casting 1 spell, brief pause, next mob.

You're never* going to be killing faster because you simply can't kill faster, it won't be down to mana

*If you're toons can take hits and you find a decent area for it, you can run around and grab loads of mobs, throwing down the Paladin AoE spell consecration ('http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=26573') to keep them "tagged" (to stop them losing interest and resetting/evading) and then drop 25 Fire Nova Totems ('http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=8498') (for this you'll need the guys NOT getting XP to drop em a half second late to make sure the right group gets XP, plus the pali's damage will tag most of em before that, but if you get a method down you can AoE fairly well, upping you're kill/hour.

To be honest there are very very few areas that can support that kind of kill/hour ratio, if any once you get a bit higher.

Consider this: a maximum of 1 group at a time is getting XP as you kill, if they need 141 mobs to level (20-21) OR say 7 quests, why not make those 141 mobs you're killing anyway count for 7 quests, and get TWO levels for the price of ONE? Better yet, kill say 80 mobs for 3 quests and get 1.5 levels 61 mobs faster. You're killing them anyway!

Plan it like this: Arrive in "Town A" set ALL youre hearthstones to the local inn near the quest hub, grab all the quests, head out into an area and do quests in that area one team at a time, then move along to do another couple, all the while killing as you go. Once all 26 toons have a bunch of quests done, hearthstone HALF of them, hand in all the quests, then RAF Summon them back, then hearthstone the other half and repeat with them. You've now handed in a bunch of quests (which is made easy with Jamba/other) and have a buttload more XP to show for shit you were killing anyway, you have some items you can use on ALL toons which will increase your mana pool/damage/regen/whatever and some cash, or at worst they can't use the items and they sell them... still cash either way!

All it comes down to is a little planning and forward thought, which is something against you as you haven't played the game before, I'd honestly go buy Joana's Guide ('http://www.joanasworld.com/'), and just drop any quest that takes you out of your way or sounds annoying. Just go 1 zone at a time and utilize the RAF summons creatively as suggested.

I honestly think combining questing with the grinding will reduce the levelling time by a massive ammount, at least 50%, and more at higher levels, as the XP/mob doesn't scale like quests do, and neither will your kills/hour purely due to game mechanics...

[Sam DeathWalker]

Well that might be a good plan, Ill get to level 23 at wetlands as I am already there then check the guide for a zone to grab a bunch of quests at.

[Sam DeathWalker]

25 (you have 1 pali iirc?) x 70 = 1750 damage - this is also known as dead bear...

Its seems to me that once the mob is dead the addtional casts (even those cast before the mob dies) don't do anything and don't cost mana, so you only use the amount of mana needed to kill the mob.

[Moorea]

Well that might be a good plan, Ill get to level 23 at wetlands as I am already there then check the guide for a zone to grab a bunch of quests at.

wow, am I dreaming, are you finally listening to advice and will finally start to quest ? cool... I thought you were a desperate case but maybe not...

[Seraphaw]

25 (you have 1 pali iirc?) x 70 = 1750 damage - this is also known as dead bear...

Its seems to me that once the mob is dead the addtional casts (even those cast before the mob dies) don't do anything and don't cost mana, so you only use the amount of mana needed to kill the mob.In the case of lightning bolt, there is the obvious casting time. If all your toons fire at roughly the same time they will release the spell even if the mob would die from only 8 lightning bolts, this ofc in regards to distance to mob and amount of lag, and thus it takes away mana for everyone. Imo you should have 3 groups cast lightning bolt when you press down your normal lightningbolt button and the other 3 groups cast their lightning bolts when you press down shift (for example) + lightningbolt button. This will preserve mana and allow one of your group to regain mana when the other is casting. There is no use in wasting 25 lightningbolts on a poor level 19 wolf with 350 hp.

[Sam DeathWalker]

It would seem that once you cast you use up mana, BUT from my observations, if the mob dies the mana is not charged ... it appears that you don't get charged the mana until after the spell hits, and if the mob is dead it dosnt hit, but i have seen spells charge mana upon cast so, but if you cast a spell and get interupted you dont get charged ... ...

Of course maybe I am regening the mana back just as fast, Ill try and nail this down with SS.

[Sam DeathWalker]

Muhaha Made 15 PHAT gold last night selling Tin Bars and Tin Ore, looks like I am on the road to being self sufficient!


http://img75.imageshack.us/img75/6516/goldaf8.th.jpg (http://img75.imageshack.us/my.php?image=goldaf8.jpg)http://img75.imageshack.us/images/thpix.gif (http://g.imageshack.us/thpix.php)

[Suvega]

Muhaha Made 15 PHAT gold last night selling Tin Bars and Tin Ore, looks like I am on the road to being self sufficient!


http://img75.imageshack.us/img75/6516/goldaf8.th.jpg ('http://img75.imageshack.us/my.php?image=goldaf8.jpg')http://img75.imageshack.us/images/thpix.gif ('http://g.imageshack.us/thpix.php')
OMG 15 GOLD.

Stop bumping this useless thread, make something new. This is getting old.

btw, 15gold is getting ripped off. You can probably charge alot more.

[Los]

go sam go, put it in overdrive and hit the quests!

[zanthor]

Muhaha Made 15 PHAT gold last night selling Tin Bars and Tin Ore, looks like I am on the road to being self sufficient!


http://img75.imageshack.us/img75/6516/goldaf8.th.jpg ('http://img75.imageshack.us/my.php?image=goldaf8.jpg')http://img75.imageshack.us/images/thpix.gif ('http://g.imageshack.us/thpix.php')
OMG 15 GOLD.

Stop bumping this useless thread, make something new. This is getting old.

btw, 15gold is getting ripped off. You can probably charge alot more.Quote for truth. I was paying 8G a stack for tin on blackhand...

[Zub]

Muhaha Made 15 PHAT gold last night selling Tin Bars and Tin Ore, looks like I am on the road to being self sufficient!
That was an amaznig screenshot of someone selling AH for ~15g. AWESOME.
You'll need about 250-300g per toon just to learn skills and abilities at level 60. multiply that by 26 and you'll see how many tin bars you need to be self-sufficient :-) That's without mounts obviously.
ow but i forget, you'll probably only learn L. Bolt, Earth Shock and Heal.

Also note that higher ores and mats might sell for less, as there are more people farming them. For example Wool cloth sells for MUCH more than Silk or Mageweave.
Also note that daily quests at max level (which is currently 70) reward about 12g and some pretty much take ~5min.

[valkry]

If you cast a spell and it gets interupted, you won't get charged mana, but if you cast a spell and the lightning bolt hits a dead corpse cos your target dies straight after casting it, then you will get charged mana for it.

[krinkle]

have you thought about farming the human town in Hillsbard for XP + Wool Cloth for the auction house? It is located north west of azureload mine and has a very high density of mobs and a quick respawn rate.

the only problem may be that there is alot of pvp in this zone, but seems like it would be a quick money maker and XP gain for you if you dont get camped.

[glo]

Muhaha Made 15 PHAT gold last night selling Tin Bars and Tin Ore, looks like I am on the road to being self sufficient!


http://img75.imageshack.us/img75/6516/goldaf8.th.jpg (http://img75.imageshack.us/my.php?image=goldaf8.jpg)http://img75.imageshack.us/images/thpix.gif (http://g.imageshack.us/thpix.php)

Hahaha!

If the total time you spent mining, smelting, and auctioning took more then 3 seconds you lost money. There are a lot of boxer friendly dailies that take literally 1 minute to do with your group and pay 10-15g each. Everyone realizes you don't listen but even your thickness has to let it seep through eventually. The fact that you took a SS of this is scary. Level or give up already. Playing the way you do makes the entire community look silly to anyone paying attention.

[Los]

Let him play his game, why dont you.

Besides, remember he will need to buy skills every few times to get the newer ranks dmg spells, it wont be free.

[Zub]

Can't wait to see the (pay-per-view) videos of 5g Auctions.

[Gomotron]

Took me 2 days 12hrs or so on my first team and 2 days 17hrs on the second, and I spent alot of time AFK, hours even, and alot of questing could have been more efficient. 15hrs might be doable with some quest planning and no AFK time tbh

I agree here. Took my first group about 2 days 12 hours. The second was done in 18 hours. I cut out all attempts at tradeskills and instances, no collection quests at all aside from the noob zone. More running around though, as you have to get to different zones for more kill quests.

[Sam DeathWalker]

Ya that town does also repop fast (in fact with 26 toons in the area a lot of places will repop "fast" but not instantly). Right now Im doing that spider cave in wetlands for lots of mining upgrades (mines pop in 15 minutes or so).

Well I just plan to post my "noob" achivements in this thread instead of making a lot of seperate "level 24 mob killed" or "DeathWalker makes 20 PHAT Golds" posts. Readers may as well just skip all this if they are also not low level and interested in noob stuffs. If I have any major things to annouce as far as boxing goes Ill make another thread. My system is fairly stable at this point so I doubt Ill upgrade anything to soon but lag in cities is bad (as is if I have all in ghost also for some reason). But in open areas its fairly smooth. Keyclone is doing excellent cept for the pip switiching keys which I don't even use anymore.

Im using;

Pitbull, Dominoes, Sell o Matic, TwoBox (had to shut off the auto follow break warning though), mappy, cartographer (what for though?), stubby, informant (very usefull for enchanting and what not), titan, hitmodes,

Ill be using the stuff this guy recomneds in his thread when I start questing:

Horde Multi Boxing RAF 1-60 Leveling Guide ('http://www.dual-boxing.com/forums/index.php?page=Thread&threadID=14471&')

I have two keys on my single trackball. One key is keyclone broadcast to trigger action bar 2 and one key for action bar 1. Action bar 1 is a macro:

/target SamDeathWKZZ

/assist

/follow

/cast Lightning Bolt

This is on all 25. The same macro is on Action Bar 2 but ONLY for the group I want to get the exp. So I press the first button and the 5 in the exp group cast their LB, and then press the 2nd button and the rest fire. This way I will level up all evenly.

So thats about it, rest will be noob stuffs so you can skip the post if so inclinded.

[valkry]

I think people forget, this is his first time playing wow. Hitting lvl 20 for him is a BIG thing, it's not for us cos we have done it many times, but I remember being stoked first time I ever did it. I was stoked for every 10 lvl milestone.

[Tasty]

I think people forget, this is his first time playing wow. Hitting lvl 20 for him is a BIG thing, it's not for us cos we have done it many times, but I remember being stoked first time I ever did it. I was stoked for every 10 lvl milestone.I was stoked with EVERY level lol. WoW is a lot more fun when you've never played it before imo :)

[Moorea]

Took me 2 days 12hrs or so on my first team and 2 days 17hrs on the second, and I spent alot of time AFK, hours even, and alot of questing could have been more efficient. 15hrs might be doable with some quest planning and no AFK time tbh

I agree here. Took my first group about 2 days 12 hours. The second was done in 18 hours. I cut out all attempts at tradeskills and instances, no collection quests at all aside from the noob zone. More running around though, as you have to get to different zones for more kill quests.

18 hours /played for a group of 5 to 60 - without boosting or gifting ? do you have a screenshot ?