Best 5 Man Instance Group

[boxer]

What does everyone think is the best 5-boxing makeup for 5 man instances?

Also, include what you think would be the best tank, healer, etc.

[Miquexia]

i dont wanna be harsh but there are already LOTS of topics about this... use the search function!

[unit187]

tank - warrior druid paladin
healer - druid paladin priest
dps - mage warlock priest hunter druid


whatevah you want

[crazycat]

id prefer 5 shamans for instances and pvp :D

[Ughmahedhurtz]

Yep, I'd do a google on "site:dual-boxing.com heroic tank" and I bet you'll get what you're looking for. ;)

[unit187]

id prefer 5 shamans for instances and pvp :D
not the best choice. You cant beat most heroics now. And after patch those spells will cast faster and do less damage which means some other heroics will get more difficult

[Dor]

ive run with most combinations now and from that....

prot pally
-- drood and warr not nearly as good for multi mob aggro which is king in pve instances...with fw and hp inc in patch that just gets moreso

priest

yeh yeh all healers aregood... priest is only one with grp heals which makes boxing a 5 man easier

3 mages

best lasting easiest to use cc (only human) but only need to use 2 macroes to use it... /assist tank /focus and /poly focus


This in my opinion is the easiest to use and most effective 5 man grp. Im not saying other combo dont work (and Ive tried everything I can think of), but for ease of use and effectiveness this is king.

[Gallo]

Dor, you think that'd be the easiest 5 man group for 5boxing a heroic? I've got a priest and 4 locks up to level 14, and I want to reevaluate what my "goals" are once I hit 70. I suppose I'd like to farm heroics. I have a level 70 warrior and lvl 70 priest already.

Maybe I should level 1 priest, 2 locks, 2 mages and when my 5-some hits 70 I can use my warrior to tank heroics.

[Gallo]

Or should I really have a pally tank... does that make things easier to 5 box? AOE tanking and such?

[Dor]

really depends on the instance..if a lot of demons..then the mage cc falls apart.. I have done thru the first boss in mech heroic (clearing is a lot harder than the boss) which are a few demon packs... Ive done most bosses now in normal 5 mans (including that pos inciter what a pain in the butt that was) and am just now really starting to work on heroics.. mainly due to the fact that gear plays a part going into heroics and Ive just now gotten the rest of my guys caught up to my tank (I always focus gear on my tank then worry about the rest)


the reason i say 3 mages tho is for ease of use.. locks and hunters have more usefulness for cc sometimes but require a lot more micro managing which imo is the bane of multiboxing when the poo hits the fan-- main thing I try to do is minimize how much I have to split my attention

-- you have to have a warr/pally/druid tank for heroics and most high end instances..lock pets just cant take the beating (theyll be 1 or 2 shotted) I like pally due to the effectiveness of thier ae aggro BUT there are cases where a pally tank can suck (like the final boss in old hillsbrad -- dispels buff including righteous fury which makes it hard to keep aggro) -- pally also has trouble on spell resistant mobs and caster mobs-- I personally have a warr Drood and pally for diff situations and use them accordingly, but again the pally is the most versatile and definitely the easiest to use in tanking (less micromanagement event tho there isnt much for warrs and droos either but a pally doesnt even have to face the mob theyre tanking a lot of the time and a pally taunt is semi ranged to so you dont have to target the mob just the alt thats getting smacked around)

[Gallo]

Well here's a better question for you. Can a pally really tank at the low levels? Like lvl 20 for Deadmines and lvl 25 for Stockades? They don't get their good tanking abilities until later... right?

I'm thinking I like the idea of 1 priest, 1 pally, 2 mages, 1 warlock. Really sucks, because I have 4 locks sitting at lvl 14 heh.

[Dor]

Im not sure really I lvl my chars a bit diff than most here .. Im an outcast

[Gallo]

What, did you level them in smaller groups? I have a lvl 30 pally on one of my accounts. I might just run a 1priest, 2lock, 2mage group up until level 30 and then ditch the locks. I hope a 2 voidwalkers can handle tanking VC and Stockades.

[Zaelar]

Paladins can start tanking at level 20.

[Dor]

Any dps class i lvl by just having a healer tag along behind them and letting them run wild... I also have a mage at ea 10 lvls starting at 20..(20 30 40 50 60 70) allows me to 3 box.. healing and dps with the pled char getting full solo xp (out of grp). Normally takes just under 5 days played per char to 70 (and that's not pushing it, Im too old to stay up 3 or 4 days straight to see how fast i could make it happen).

[Gallo]

Really? 5 days /played to 70? I didnt start "boxing" until I had 60's and 70's, and my quickest to 60 was 6 days. I wonder if I can get 5 chars to 70 in under 8 days played.

I'm just gonna level my 2 locks, 2 mages, 1 priest until 30, then ditch a lock for my already lvl30 pally. Heroics here I come.

[Dor]

Im not saying my way is the right way etc..Im just a lazy slacker and dont enjoy running 5 chars lvling. On top of that, I really already have my basic grp set ups (27 70s atm) and only lvl a new char when i want to try something new for giggles. That being said, lvling up is still one of my favorite things to do (yeh Im a freak).

[Ceromus]

Really? 5 days /played to 70? I didnt start "boxing" until I had 60's and 70's, and my quickest to 60 was 6 days. I wonder if I can get 5 chars to 70 in under 8 days played.

I'm just gonna level my 2 locks, 2 mages, 1 priest until 30, then ditch a lock for my already lvl30 pally. Heroics here I come.

Hes mistaken, without some sort of serious assistance and an aoe class you will not hit lvl 70 in 5 days. I believe the record for lvl60 is still 4 days 20 hours isnt it?

Though with the newest patching coming up making the leveling process easier I cant say for sure how that would go.

[kayb]

5 days to 70 should be doable if you got everything lined up for (effective) boosting.

I have a few ideas on tanking. I have chosen paladin for many reasons, but the primary reason is micro. You can micro a paladin tank optimally with very little effort. A warrior has more tools, and needs more gcd's to tank optimally, but a warrior has lower threat than a paladin. We have a paladin tank in the guild, and he's easily twice the tps than our warriors, even on singletarget. The 2.3 patch will make warrior slightly less microintensive with the added sunder armor in the devastate talent (Is this talent change already added perhaps? I can't remember). But sunder armor isn't needed when you run a setup like mine with only caster dps.

I don't know much about the mechanics of druid tanking, but it's not as micro intensive as warrior. A druid gets huge dodge rating, but this pushes out normal hits, and your left with crits/crushing blows. So when the druid needs healing, it usually needs "OH SHIT!!" healing. This isn't such a big deal for heroics I guess, more of a problem in later raid instances.

Basically I'm going for efficiency. Consecrate/Shield blocks lets me focus tanking and dps on one target so the mob dies fast. The faster you're able to reduce the groups, the less healing the tank will need, the faster you'll have control of the situation etc. Healer aggro is an issue with warrior tank, this in turn causes dps aggro issues due to the warrior needing to spread out his threat on multiple targets. I don't know...it's just hard work to tank as warrior. A warrior is huge on bosses though...Shield Wall, Last Stand is the shit.

[Dor]

Really? 5 days /played to 70? I didnt start "boxing" until I had 60's and 70's, and my quickest to 60 was 6 days. I wonder if I can get 5 chars to 70 in under 8 days played.

I'm just gonna level my 2 locks, 2 mages, 1 priest until 30, then ditch a lock for my already lvl30 pally. Heroics here I come.

Hes mistaken, without some sort of serious assistance and an aoe class you will not hit lvl 70 in 5 days. I believe the record for lvl60 is still 4 days 20 hours isnt it?

Though with the newest patching coming up making the leveling process easier I cant say for sure how that would go.


..no mistake just take the time to set up your pl'ers and anyone can do it...Id assume thats how the "paid for pling" grps do it, but I dont know.. You get full xp for all kills at a hugely accelerated rate. (the 4 day thing to 60 was totally solo if i remem right? could be wrong thinking it was a rogue?) Just think of it this way... solo xp for a trio kill rate. Also means I hit 70 in nagrand and have the last 3 zones to grind quest for gold and epic flyers if so inclined.

[Gallo]

Really? 5 days /played to 70? I didnt start "boxing" until I had 60's and 70's, and my quickest to 60 was 6 days. I wonder if I can get 5 chars to 70 in under 8 days played.

I'm just gonna level my 2 locks, 2 mages, 1 priest until 30, then ditch a lock for my already lvl30 pally. Heroics here I come.

Hes mistaken, without some sort of serious assistance and an aoe class you will not hit lvl 70 in 5 days. I believe the record for lvl60 is still 4 days 20 hours isnt it?

Though with the newest patching coming up making the leveling process easier I cant say for sure how that would go.


..no mistake just take the time to set up your pl'ers and anyone can do it...Id assume thats how the "paid for pling" grps do it, but I dont know.. You get full xp for all kills at a hugely accelerated rate. (the 4 day thing to 60 was totally solo if i remem right? could be wrong thinking it was a rogue?) Just think of it this way... solo xp for a trio kill rate. Also means I hit 70 in nagrand and have the last 3 zones to grind quest for gold and epic flyers if so inclined.

I'm still going to level my whole group of 5, but I'm not sure I'm following your method. How exactly do you get full XP at triple the rate? If you have an ungrouped healer, you have no downtime, so you might be leveling in 80% of the normal time. But, if you do any damage to the target with the ungrouped high level player, you're losing out on XP.

[Zaelar]

Not if the mob would normally give the ungrouped player exp.

[boxer]

no, you still get decayed exp even if you tag the mob first and the high level is ungrouped.

[Dor]

sorry but youre not right box..if the mob is green or better to the one doing dps the tagger gets the full xp.. this is from lvl 1 to 70

edit.. lowbie is ungrped and tags mob... the dps and healer can be grped together but only the dps (the one the mob is green to) can dps the mob

I cart around a 70 priest or 70 druid thru 30ish then a 70 priest only (thorns add a lot of dps early on) for healing

and a mage for dps (lvl determined by what lvl mobs the ungrped lowbie im lvling can tag)

[Gallo]

The tagger does not get full XP. I just tried it out with my group of 2 mages (grouped) at lvl 14, and my priest at lvl 70 (ungrouped). A normal lvl 14 mob gave 62xp for killing it with just the mages. If I killed it with my priest when it got to 50%, they only got 38xp.

[Zaelar]

Stop RPing someone thats colorblind please.

[Dor]

heh you guys arent understanding what im saying..think Im typing hebrew or something....


ok...

you have 2 grps:

ungrped nubsauce is grp 1 (in this case he's lvl 34)

grp 2 is a lvl 70 priest and a lvl 40 mage


grp 1 tags lvl 34 mob (which is the lowest lvl green to the mage if i remem right) the lv 40 MAGE and the mage only dps's the mob down and the grp 1 gets full credit....at no time does the priest do any dps of any type to the mob... the mob isnt green to the lvl 70 therefor kills the xp. The priest can however cast hex of weakness on the mob (any debuff as long as it doesnt do any damage this means even 1 point of damage to the mob)

-- if the nubsauce tags a lvl 33 mob then the lvl 40 mage cant help dps it down since it isnt green to him, if he does the xp is jacked..

-- I find that it works best when nubsauce tags a grp of lvl 36 mobs (2 lvls higher) and then 40 mage ae's them down the 2 lvl diff seems to be the fastest range to gain xp not sure if that's scientific just how it feels to me.

and once again..IF you follow these rules the nubsauce gets full 100% solo xp

[smokebum]

First of all Dor tvm for the info

To the people who have no idea what Dor is talking about: Try actually reading Dor's Post before replying.

To Dor: Ty again for the info. I've been lvling 1priest and 4mages and its been anoying the @%$% out of me that 1 of the mages had 15% less exp then the other guys. Fixed it in 10mins :D . I actually saw the exp go up 3%-5% from killing just one group at lvl 52. Which got me thinking, if you set up a group of mages at (10 20 30 40 50 60 70) with a healer, I think it would be possible to reach lvl 70 in less then 2-3 days. Unfortunately I dont have the time or the patience to do that. But would be fun.

Your are now second in my hero list
1st = xzin
2nd = Dor :D

[Gallo]

Ohhh I see the light now. Dor, thats why you have a mage at every 10 levels... if the ungrouped person helping out is close to the level of the nub character, he probably gets full XP. A lvl 70 1 shotting a mob with a lvl 34 would probably result in 1/2 xp.

[boxer]

ok when i meant high level i meant 70.

But yeah, i see Dor.

[Vyndree]

I have a level 70 warrior and lvl 70 priest already.

Level up 5 dps classes, or 4 dps classes and a healer.

When you hit 70, swap in your existing 70 war and 70 priest and you're gtg.

Because CC = easymode, I'd suggest finding the easiest dps classes you can play that have decent CC. Try rolling a pally + 4 dps if you want to respec the pally to tank or healer when you hit 70 and you've got alot of options.

My bf has had success now that he's hit outlands running 1 priest, 3 mages, 1 warrior.

[jdraughn]

Well here's a better question for you. Can a pally really tank at the low levels? Like lvl 20 for Deadmines and lvl 25 for Stockades? They don't get their good tanking abilities until later... right?

I'm thinking I like the idea of 1 priest, 1 pally, 2 mages, 1 warlock. Really sucks, because I have 4 locks sitting at lvl 14 heh.

I did RFC at level 14 with 1 pallie and 4 priests. It got real tough with 3 or 4 mobs. Pally has no way of really pulling from afar so I had to either pull with my priests (but then they got initial agro from the whole group), or run up with my pally so he gets the inital agro.

now we are all level 24 and I am about to try SFK. I tried it in my late teens and managed to get to the bottom of the stairs in the courtyard at the very beginning but there were too many adds and I was having trouble keeping agro on them all. The adds would take out my priests and that would be that.

Now I have consecration so shouldin't be as much of a problem, as soon as they run toward a priest they will be on top of my consecration and I will get agro.

[Vyndree]

Well here's a better question for you. Can a pally really tank at the low levels? Like lvl 20 for Deadmines and lvl 25 for Stockades? They don't get their good tanking abilities until later... right?

I'm thinking I like the idea of 1 priest, 1 pally, 2 mages, 1 warlock. Really sucks, because I have 4 locks sitting at lvl 14 heh.

I did RFC at level 14 with 1 pallie and 4 priests. It got real tough with 3 or 4 mobs. Pally has no way of really pulling from afar so I had to either pull with my priests (but then they got initial agro from the whole group), or run up with my pally so he gets the inital agro.

now we are all level 24 and I am about to try SFK. I tried it in my late teens and managed to get to the bottom of the stairs in the courtyard at the very beginning but there were too many adds and I was having trouble keeping agro on them all. The adds would take out my priests and that would be that.

Now I have consecration so shouldin't be as much of a problem, as soon as they run toward a priest they will be on top of my consecration and I will get agro.

Sorry for the massive quote. Pallies get righetous fury at 16 - at that point they're good to go for tanking purposes. Keep in mind that you're in control of your dps - you can choose not to start dpsing until the pally has solid aggro.

As for damage soaking, I do notice at low levels (below 40) my warrior takes less damage than my paladin. Because the paladin either needs constant healing or gear with int, they sacrifice stats that work for both aggro generation and damage mitigation (example: str on a war increases block as well as threat, whereas a pally needs both int to cast spells for threat as well as block value/str).

Once you get holy shield, though, the difference I see with pally threat vs warrior threat is enormous. With a paladin tank you can start dps immediately, and with a warrior you have to wait for a couple sunders. The paladin takes more damage, but fights tend to be faster as the paladin is also putting out significant dps.

Anyway, both are viable. Druids are probably also a good choice, as they get bearform at 10 and if you're just quest grinding (and don't need a tank) they can also do some mild ranged dps or healing in caster form.

Oh, and by the way, pick up engineering on your pally. Not only is the tankatronic goggles in endgame completely sweet, but you can pull using bombs until you get your avenger's shield.

[kayb]

A paladin needs neither strenght or intelligence.

If you want optimal tanking (read: max control) go for +defense, stamina, block that kinda thing.

If you want optimal threat, go for +spelldmg gear in addition to +defense, sta, dodge etc. +spelldmg items usable for tanking are few and far between, even after Outland, but your mainhand weapon should be a caster weapon, as opposed to a dps weapon.

[Vyndree]

A paladin needs neither strenght or intelligence.

My comment was that there were no stats that paladins use that benefit both damage mitigation as well as threat generation.

For a warrior, strength benefits both block and threat. This means they can get more out of less stats.

You'd be hard pressed to find low level pally plate with spelldmg or defense. Because most of what you're going to find is warrior gear, you're either going to have to gear with AH greens (plate "of the eagle" gear or "of stamina") or warrior gear (which includes pts spent in strength, which you don't gain much benefit from besides a TEENY bit of block. Wars get that teeny bit of block PLUS threat generation).

It's typically hard for me to keep a decent mana pool on my pally without getting int gear at low levels. Even with shaman dropping a mana spring and healing stream totem and making sure her health is topped off, spamming holy shield she goes oom by the end of every pull.

Basically my point is a pally in equal gear will either take more damage (or generate less threat if they decide to wear warrior gear) compared to warrior in similar level gear due to points being spread out for paladins - they have so many things they need stats for. This is true endgame when more gear points are spent for spelldamage, stam, mitigation stats when warriors get stam, mitigation, and threat generation is rolled right in there with mitigation stats so they tend to have even more mitigation than pallies who have to "waste" points on spelldmg.

Not saying pally tanks are bad. They are great at holding aggro and aoe damage. It's just that there's more gear with optimal stats and more bang-per-buck per each stat on a warrior. So pick according to your preference.

[jdraughn]

True, it's a known fact that pallies have to work harder to be able to tank the same things a warrior can, but as far as what I feel would work best with my setup, of 4 priests and 1 tank, the pallie tanks the spot (pun intended).

Mana should not be a problem with 4 vamperic touches, so I don't even have to consider intel as a stat, with any of them. Since they will in essense have unlimited mana, they changes things quite a bit. Same thing with health. I am going to stack stamina on my pallie like there is no tomorrow, but with my priests... naaaa They simply shouldin't be getting hit.

Of course it's going to happen sometimes but I would rather stack more +spell dmg on them because that equals more mana for the pallie and themselves, not to mention more healing for the pallie.

Things are working out real good so far. I got totally screwed up in SFK recently. I beat the first boss, then went up the stairs behind him and came up against some guy who was reflecting all magic on myself. So my SW:P was ending up on my priests, and my pallie. Now I wonder if dispelling could have fixed that problem, but one of my accounts needs to be reenabled and im broke right now ;(

[kayb]

My comment was that there were no stats that paladins use that benefit both damage mitigation as well as threat generation.


I should have pointed out that I was talking about end game. You're right in that a paladin will be tanking in warrior gear until Outland, and probably until level 70 when you start to gather Righteous Armor. Block is an incredible threat stat, with Holy Shield, Blessing of Sanctuary and shield spike, your threat will really spike when blocking.

As for running oom. I almost exclusively use seal of wisdom, this allows me to keep up holy shield all the time, and also consecrate alot. On bosses I will maybe judge wisdom and use seal of righteousness, but this seal isnt as useful in the lower levels. Also remember that you can judge wisdom on multiple enemies and have consecrate ticks return mana to you. This requires some effort in the micro department, but can be valuable when having a small mana pool. I also use [Fist of Stone] which sometimes procs 50 mana (quite low procrate). Another thing is that the weapon in the mainhand needs to be quite fast. Around 1.8 is nice, this will allow you to make use of all the reckoning procs, which all can return mana from seal of wisdom. Oom should not be a problem even with little int.

[Zaelar]

I thought you only got mana back with judgement of wisdom from melee attacks.

[kayb]

Both proc. You judge seal of wisdom on a mob, then cast a new seal when you need to regain mana bad. You need to do a melee hit on the mob with judgement every 30 seconds, to refresh the duration. This is what makes it hardt to keep judgements up on 2-3 mobs or more, when boxing. Personally I would never do it on more than 1 mob cause it takes to much attention away from healing and dpsing.

And there's one other thing I forgot to mention that makes paladin a kickass tank. Ranged taunt ability. It's a lifesaver for those patrols who happen upon your castergroup, when you dont have time/are unable to run back to grab aggro.

I just target the mob and use this macro:
/cast [target=targettarget, help] righteous defense