Leatherworking

[Aradar]

I know there has been many threads on this but after looking at the gear now that I am working on that aspect of the game, I don't see how I can't afford to do it. Between the Netherstrike Set and the Hurricane Boots, those are the best pieces you can get for each of those slots without pvp/heroics/raids and in most cases they are the best by a long shot.

I'm not really looking forward to the grind and will have more drums than I know what to do with but I think it's for the best. If you disagree, please convince me. :P

[-silencer-]

It could be worse.. blacksmithing is far worse to level than leatherworking. Mainly because we've got smiths, engineers, and jewelcrafters all needing the mining ores, while skinners only have leatherworking to support for the most part. Unlike ores, there's a virtually unlimited supply of skinning mats available if you farm the right areas. Need rugged leather? No problem... Un'goro. Need knothide leather? No problem.. Nagrand. (And get a lot of clefthoof leather while you're at it.) Leatherworking does tend to need a lot of mats per item (like 15 knothide leather), but I can't tell how much Thorium it's going to take to get me to 300 smithing at 12-16 a skillup. Leather is usually cheaper on the AH, so although it may be expensive, it's better than an alternative profession...
Get a head start on those rare mats drops like the nether scales.. by the time you've got enough of those, you should easily have farmed enough knothide leather to get you close to 375.

[Schwarz]

From the start I wanted my 5 shamen team to all have a spot open for leatherworking. Until a couple of weeks ago I changed my mind. The gear that you can make from leatherworking is pretty nice but if you could would you upgrade your gear with badge pieces? At least right now the badges pieces are better than the leatherworking craftable stuff.

I have 5 epic mounts and took up Alchemy on each of my toons. I am currently working on making the 63 spell damage trinket for all my toons. Once this is done then transmuting * 5 will at least net me 100g a day. I am hoping that in wotlk they continue on with some sort of stone that will also be very nice. What will leatherworking get you? Good upgrades to a point there are better options out there. And drums. Granted I haven't used these so I am not sure how much they will help. I know that the haste one does stack with bloodlust so that is nice.

[pinotnoir]

Save your gold... Just get the PVP gear. Those leatherworking items are a waste of gold and time when you can get the epic pvp gear very easy. Use your gold for epic flying mounts. There are 5man shamans in The Zerg that destroy heroics in full pvp gear. They blow through heroics so save your gold.

[Kulzor]

Just thinking about that starts giving me murderous thoughts, Fur.

[-silencer-]

Assuming that you actually like to PvP... for hours... and hours... and hours..... and hours.... and HOURS!!!!!! AND HOURS!!!! AND HOURS!!!!!!!
:P
I agree with this. I can't stand BGs, so once I have the honor/marks to buy the Merc. Glad Gavel on my pally, I'm done. I'd rather farm leather till my fingers bleed than subject myself to one more round of honor grinding.

[Jaese]

Pop in a movie and park your butt in a tower in AV. ;)

Granted, the other 3 BGs require a tad more brainpower to avoid getting AFKed. :/

[Aradar]

Flying, Blacksmithing, Engineering, Tailoring, Alchemy, Herbalism, Mining and Skinning all maxed so my major gold sinks are already out of the way. Leatherworking is 350+ on my healer and Jewelcrafting and Enchanting are both 350+ as well which will be easily maxed on my own toons.

PVP Grind - already done twice prior to boxing... no thanks.

I will have to drop Herbalism, Mining and Skinning which sucks but I think Leatherworking is worth it. Of course, I won't drop Skinning till I have the mats in case I can't get them off the AH.

Thanks for the input.

[Schwarz]

Save your gold... Just get the PVP gear. Those leatherworking items are a waste of gold and time when you can get the epic pvp gear very easy. Use your gold for epic flying mounts. There are 5man shamans in The Zerg that destroy heroics in full pvp gear. They blow through heroics so save your gold.

I think the only piece of pvp gear you really need is a weapon. That is really the only piece i have besides the "starter" seers set. I ground out the bracer last time it was AV weekend but I haven't been able to do anything differently from getting that one piece.

5 shamen should be able to do heroics pretty easily. I downed the first 2 bosses in SP the night I dinged. I had something like 5600hp and 600ish spell damage. In my opinon grind heroics. Get better gear than what you can craft and profit from all the LPS and trash you get.

[Stabface]

Cost = Time, or as our green skinned entrepreneurs are fond to say "Time is money, friend!"
Lets compare PvP cost to obtain to the same gear slots you get from LW -- Netherstrike Belt, Bracers, Chest, and Hurricane Boots. I will assume that a new-ish L70 cannot buy the S4 BG pieces because of the personal arena ranking requirement, so here's what we have:

S4 BG belt is 17850
S3 BG bracer is 9199
S3 BG boots are 13923
S2 Arena chest is 14500

= 55472 honor.

I did the math recently and to level 1->375 LW and craft these 4 pieces it cost around 3000g, figuring a base rate of 100g/hour then you get 30H /played to do your LW and get your epics.
Can you earn 55472/30 = 1850 honor per hour? Not including earning the necessary marks.

There is also the opportunity costs to consider - using up a tradeskill for LW, things like that.

[Aradar]

Cost = Time, or as our green skinned entrepreneurs are fond to say "Time is money, friend!"
Lets compare PvP cost to obtain to the same gear slots you get from LW -- Netherstrike Belt, Bracers, Chest, and Hurricane Boots. I will assume that a new-ish L70 cannot buy the S4 BG pieces because of the personal arena ranking requirement, so here's what we have:

S4 BG belt is 17850
S3 BG bracer is 9199
S3 BG boots are 13923
S2 Arena chest is 14500

= 55472 honor.

I did the math recently and to level 1->375 LW and craft these 4 pieces it cost around 3000g, figuring a base rate of 100g/hour then you get 30H /played to do your LW and get your epics.
Can you earn 55472/30 = 1850 honor per hour? Not including earning the necessary marks.

There is also the opportunity costs to consider - using up a tradeskill for LW, things like that.
3,000g = two days of dailies if I get a full run in so 6 days for all 3 toons.

1,850 honor per hour plus marks? Not in my battlegroup.

Guess that seals the deal...

[Stabface]

"The Big Deal" for me with Leatherworking is looking ahead to WotLK. The grind from 1->375 is a one-time cost, while all the PvP items you earn today will be very quickly obsolete at L80. Yes, skilling up to the new cap and creating the new gear will be expensive, but it's something that can be easily done in quest greens and blues at L80. Farming the new heroics will be much more challenging in those greens and blues.
Furthermore, go compare the Netherstrike gear to the original S1 gear, I'd suggest comparing it to the original badge gear but there wasn't any good pieces :)

http://www.wowhead.com/?item=27469 vs http://www.wowhead.com/?item=29519

Not only is Netherstrike better for PvE by a good margin, I guarantee you that you can get the L80 LW gear faster than the L80 Arena gear, and likely faster than L80 PvP gear if you prepare now for it. It's around 3 months to the estimated release date... if you farmed gold a few hours a week between now and then you'd have more than enough likely to buy your way up to the new LW cap and get your epics. You could possibly do the same with PvP by banking a bunch of honor, I am not sure...

[Aradar]

"The Big Deal" for me with Leatherworking is looking ahead to WotLK. The grind from 1->375 is a one-time cost, while all the PvP items you earn today will be very quickly obsolete at L80. Yes, skilling up to the new cap and creating the new gear will be expensive, but it's something that can be easily done in quest greens and blues at L80. Farming the new heroics will be much more challenging in those greens and blues.
Furthermore, go compare the Netherstrike gear to the original S1 gear, I'd suggest comparing it to the original badge gear but there wasn't any good pieces :)

http://www.wowhead.com/?item=27469 vs http://www.wowhead.com/?item=29519

Not only is Netherstrike better for PvE by a good margin, I guarantee you that you can get the L80 LW gear faster than the L80 Arena gear, and likely faster than L80 PvP gear if you prepare now for it. It's around 3 months to the estimated release date... if you farmed gold a few hours a week between now and then you'd have more than enough likely to buy your way up to the new LW cap and get your epics. You could possibly do the same with PvP by banking a bunch of honor, I am not sure...I agree and once you get through the pre-TBC phase of any crafting (below 300) it gets better supply wise and I assume the same will be true with WotLK so I'd rather do it now.

[pinotnoir]

If your having trouble getting marks I would suggest getting wsg and ab marks at level 59. Then when you reach lvl 69 get your eots marks. Once your 70 you can premade av if your server does that for the rest of your honor and marks. PVP gear is a win win to me. You can use it for heroics and pvp.

It's a no brainer for me on the pvp gear. You grind the honor 1 time and get it for all your toons. If you are crafting you need to grind it 5 times (assuming you have 5). Then you have to farm mats for 5 toons. Its too much gold and time in my opinion. You can grind honor for 1 day and have a boot on all your toons. There is a reason why they call them welfare epics.

Vindicator Boot
702 Armor
+43 Stamina
+30 Intellect
Durability 70 / 70
Classes: Hunter, Shaman
Requires Level 70
Equip: Improves spell critical strike rating by 29 (1.31% @ L70).
Equip: Improves your resilience rating by 27 (0.68% @ L70).
Equip: Increases damage and healing done by magical spells and effects by up to 35.

Hurricane Boot
619 Armor
+25 Stamina
+26 Intellect
Durability 70 / 70
Requires Level 70
Equip: Improves spell critical strike rating by 26 (1.18% @ L70).
Equip: Increases damage and healing done by magical spells and effects by up to 39.
Equip: Restores 6 mana per 5 sec.

[roddo]

I solo leveled a lock to 70, took me 3 monthes or 9 days played, and then i did the honor grind and got all welfare/arena epics, which took me another 2 monthes and maybe 7 days played. My hunter Took me alot longer to 70 (was 60 for almost 2 years) and I used lw and heroics to gear up, probably took me 2 weeks to go from barely 70 in greens, to well geared with mostly epics by doing 1 heroic a night, and getting all 3 epic lw pieces. I did however grind the s1 crossbow. I had more fun getting my hunter to an equivelant pve gear level, took alot less time, and I have a skill that Is highly useful to me now, and also profitable and something i can use down the road to get more gear/profits from. Once I level my lock all that time pvp grinding is wasted, while my hunters grind was faster and more fun, and holds its value.

I can't use the honor from my lock for anything but my lock, while my hunter can make gear for alts/friends/guildies/random people who want to pay me to click a button. I'll never do a full pvp grind again on any character, its to much like work, yet i can farm netherscales and other lw components for hours and enjoy myself while doing it(I'm strange I guess). Long story short, do what you find fun, but to me theres more value in the tradeskill route, and its a rewarding feeling getting to 375 and knowing you reached your goal.

[Stabface]

The Vindicator boots have +18 ilvls and for PvE purposes are the same if not marginally worse than the Hurricane boots...

I have no idea how you can say it's too time consuming to get the LW items. Yes, 1-375 is a bit rough but once it's done it's done and you don't need to do it again to get more gear. Collecting the mats is time consuming or expensive (the same, really) but honestly is not THAT bad. Maybe 1500g... 15 hours played at 70. I'd compare it time-wise to grinding out marks pre-70... but once you buy your 1st set of PvP gear with those, then the next tier comes out and ? Grind more marks right? If you PvP all the time then yeah, PvP gear all the way as you need the resil and the marks/honor will come in as you are playing anyways. I just can't see grinding for PvP gear if you're focused on PvE though.

Plans + mats for the Hurricane boots will go for about... 400g total on my server, which is <4 hours of grinding for gold on a single character. If I only need it for one, then I run 5 chars in parallel and get the gold in <1 hour, or if I need it on all 5 then it's still only <4 hours of grinding. Assuming you have the 40 EOTS marks, can you grind out ~3500 honor per hour for the PvP boots? Honestly?

[pinotnoir]

The Vindicator boots have +18 ilvls and for PvE purposes are the same if not marginally worse than the Hurricane boots...

I have no idea how you can say it's too time consuming to get the LW items. Yes, 1-375 is a bit rough but once it's done it's done and you don't need to do it again to get more gear. Collecting the mats is time consuming or expensive (the same, really) but honestly is not THAT bad. Maybe 1500g... 15 hours played at 70. I'd compare it time-wise to grinding out marks pre-70... but once you buy your 1st set of PvP gear with those, then the next tier comes out and ? Grind more marks right? If you PvP all the time then yeah, PvP gear all the way as you need the resil and the marks/honor will come in as you are playing anyways. I just can't see grinding for PvP gear if you're focused on PvE though.

Plans + mats for the Hurricane boots will go for about... 400g total on my server, which is <4 hours of grinding for gold on a single character. If I only need it for one, then I run 5 chars in parallel and get the gold in <1 hour, or if I need it on all 5 then it's still only <4 hours of grinding. Assuming you have the 40 EOTS marks, can you grind out ~3500 honor per hour for the PvP boots? Honestly?

I ground 375 LW on my druid and it was a total pain in the ass. If I had to do it on 5 toons forget it. I was bored to tears killing mobs in nagrand. Now your 375 x 5 which had to take forever. Thats a mega load of leather. Now you get to grind a massive amount of primals so you can make your gear. And to make matters worse one of the mobs you have to grind for primals is immune to your damage. So you end up having to grind other primals to sell in order to buy primals from the mobs that are immune. Ok now add on all the primal nethers you need. I dont think you are taking in consideration of the amount of mats you need to gear a group of 5 shaman with that leather. If you wanted to gear 5 shaman with the LW chest you need 80 primal mana and air. Thats about 4800g in primals on my server. 80 of them you cant even farm due to immune. I am just trying to save the guy some time. The pvp gear is great and you really only grind it 1 time because its x5. If you do Lw to 375 on 5 toons and then have to get all these mats you will be wasting a ton of gold and time.

Its my 2cents.. If you want to invest that much money and time in gear thats going to be replaced go for it. I would rather get the free honor gear and save all that money for the xpac. But thats my opinion.
Do what makes you happy.

P.S. This thread needs more cowbell.

[Stabface]

Mats for Hurricane Boots + Netherstrike set with approximate gold costs on my server:
22x Heavy Knothide Leather (5g)
72x Nether Dragonscales (3g)
6x Wind Scales (7g)
36x Primal Mana (20g)
36x Primal Air (25g)
10x Primal Water (25g)
5x Primal Nethers (50g)
Total cost = 24-2500g, or about 1 day /played grinding gold?


To get PvP items in those slots: 55472 honor, 70 AB, 20 WSG, 40 EOTS. To get it in 24 hours /played you need 2300 honor and 5.4 marks per hour.

[Jaese]

Mats for Hurricane Boots + Netherstrike set with approximate gold costs on my server:
22x Heavy Knothide Leather (5g)
72x Nether Dragonscales (3g)
6x Wind Scales (7g)
36x Primal Mana (20g)
36x Primal Air (25g)
10x Primal Water (25g)
5x Primal Nethers (50g)
Total cost = 24-2500g, or about 1 day /played grinding gold?


To get PvP items in those slots: 55472 honor, 70 AB, 20 WSG, 40 EOTS. To get it in 24 hours /played you need 2300 honor and 5.4 marks per hour.

This is not viable if you run a 5-shaman DPS team, especially if you're neurotic like me and can't stand having one char having different gear. So multiply those gold costs by 5 and add in the time/money to train LW up to 375 and the PvP welfare epics become the better idea.

So farm up 12500g+++ or 55472 honor, 70 AB, 20 WSG, 40 EOTS (because everyone gets the same amount every BG).

1 shaman, sure. 5 shamans, fuck no.

[pinotnoir]

Mats for Hurricane Boots + Netherstrike set with approximate gold costs on my server:
22x Heavy Knothide Leather (5g)
72x Nether Dragonscales (3g)
6x Wind Scales (7g)
36x Primal Mana (20g)
36x Primal Air (25g)
10x Primal Water (25g)
5x Primal Nethers (50g)
Total cost = 24-2500g, or about 1 day /played grinding gold?


To get PvP items in those slots: 55472 honor, 70 AB, 20 WSG, 40 EOTS. To get it in 24 hours /played you need 2300 honor and 5.4 marks per hour.

Thats a bunch of gold and your forgetting the time and cost to get LW to 375 on the entire group. Grinding 75k honor doesnt take that long. You kill 2 birds with one stone.. Pvp gear and heroic gear all in one package. Plus you get to save your gold for xpac. Spend less time getting geared up and more time doing heroics and such with your shiney new gear. I have watched guys take their team and farm honor then shortly turn around and blow through every instance heroic on mag. It's the most effecient way to do it. There are 3 guys in The Zerg that walk through heroics after they pvp geared their shaman. Lawl, Azq and Res. Azq geared up so fast it wasnt even funny. I see him one day and the next he has all pvp gear and dragons. He is crazy. I made the mistake of only making 3 shaman. Well my other two are 69 now so I plan on joining the fellas in The Zerg with their uber pvp/heroic gear and bank accounts.

[Stabface]

Thats a bunch of gold and your forgetting the time and cost to get LW to 375 on the entire group. Grinding 75k honor doesnt take that long. You kill 2 birds with one stone.. Pvp gear and heroic gear all in one package. Plus you get to save your gold for xpac. Spend less time getting geared up and more time doing heroics and such with your shiney new gear. I have watched guys take their team and farm honor then shortly turn around and blow through every instance heroic on mag. It's the most effecient way to do it. There are 3 guys in The Zerg that walk through heroics after they pvp geared their shaman. Lawl, Azq and Res. Azq geared up so fast it wasnt even funny. I see him one day and the next he has all pvp gear and dragons. He is crazy. I made the mistake of only making 3 shaman. Well my other two are 69 now so I plan on joining the fellas in The Zerg with their uber pvp/heroic gear and bank accounts.

/facepalm
So how much gold do you get from PvPing? Rather, after grinding out PvP epics vs grinding out LW epics, how much more gold is the PvPer going to have?

Again, if you are going to mostly focus on PvP then yes it makes sense to go PvP for gear as the PvE LW gear is not good for it.
Otherwise LW is better in the long run as you get more benefits (drums are awesome, armor kits make $$, etc) and have something to build from once WotLK hits and obsoletes all our gear.

[Stealthy]

Again, if you are going to mostly focus on PvP then yes it makes sense to go PvP for gear as the PvE LW gear is not good for it.

Until Wrath hits and you start all over again... wasting that 1 - 2 month grind for S2 gear.

Ya, good plan.

The only "plan" that would make sense if you were REALLY into PvP would be to grind max honor points and marks and then bank them until you hit 80... then you could just right into the game when you reach level cap....

Because leatherworkers receive free upgrades to all their crafted gear in WotLK AMIRITE? The fact is, regardless of whether you get your gear through crafting or PvP, you will still have to grind it out to get it in WotLK.

While PvP might be the more boring of the two grinds, at least the gear is updated more often (how many new LW recipes added in since BC introduced?). There is also an opportunity cost with LW, since it requires giving up one of only two profession slots (2 on one toon at least, since you'll need skinning).

Just my 2c worth. :P



Cheers,

S.

[Ken]

I think most people are completely overlooking a major aspect here.

Grinding PvP Honor for S2 gear = 100% wasted time when WotLK hits in a couple of months. Seriously, it all goes to waste.You can't even disenchant or sell the shit

Grinding LWing (without even making the epic set) = Maxed tradeskills and ready to keep on going when WotLK hits. NOT WASTED TIME.

I pointed this out on my very first post, but I think everyone failed to read it. (seriously, its in the 2nd post in this thread... go back and read it)

The disenchant/sales value of these epics will be worthless compared to what you paid for getting those items(or what you missed by not selling the primals etc.).
Grinding LW without getting the set is indeed not wasted time.

[Memn]

The gear grind is a grind, no matter your route. Here's my route for my 2nd team:

Do the daily BG everyday, the bonus honor makes it a decent honor per hour, and its good PvP practice. Even if your not interested in PvP, it will make you a stronger player.
Do an hour or so of money dailies, its over quick, and its bearable.
Scan the AH for primals each day / crafting matts everyday, my server never has enough.
If I still have more time, I raid with my guild, or box a heroic (if I can... my dps still lack heroic quality gear).
Take the daily efficiency bonuses to each path, and avoid the grind.

[Stabface]

Because leatherworkers receive free upgrades to all their crafted gear in WotLK AMIRITE? The fact is, regardless of whether you get your gear through crafting or PvP, you will still have to grind it out to get it in WotLK.

While PvP might be the more boring of the two grinds, at least the gear is updated more often (how many new LW recipes added in since BC introduced?). There is also an opportunity cost with LW, since it requires giving up one of only two profession slots (2 on one toon at least, since you'll need skinning).



Damn straight the PvP gear got updated. Allow me to remind you of the PvP honor gear that was available when TBC was released :

http://www.wowwiki.com/Grand_Marshal%27s_Thunderfist

So lets see... PvP honor gear, 5 slots stats are : +186 Sta, +74 Int, +112 spell damage, +81 resil, +82 spell crit, +13 mp5, 3 red 3 yellow 1 meta sockets.

Netherstrike is only 3 slots, so lets add in some blue crafted Netherfury Boots and Netherfury Leggings to bring it up to 5 slots?
Total stats are: +177 Sta, +53 Int, +160 spell damage, +65 spell crit, +17 mp5, 3 yellow 6 blue sockets 2 red sockets.

You tell me which one you'd rather have for running Heroics.


I'm going to leave this thread with one comment from Blizz: its likely in WotLK that you won't need to max out LW to get the BoP epic set. So think about how cheap 300-350 was to skill up, if you already had 300 pre-TBC.



Drysc: Sound very cool. Ok, let’s move on to Leatherworking. We added some cool stuff in 2.3, obviously, drums and such. But same question as all the previous, how did it go in Burning Crusade and where’s it going for Lich King.

Jon LeCraft: Leatherworking was off to a rough start, because the drums were in a place where we were probably too conservative. You know, they were on very difficult reps, they had Primals in the reagents, and you know didn’t really match up with the power that you got from them. And once we brought them to where we wanted to in 2.3, I think it helped a lot. It helped with the leveling definitely, where you’re making something that you can consume and that you’re using a lot rather than these just esoteric items that somebody may or may not want. So I think that worked out pretty well. Another thing that was a little weird about Leatherworking, and this is the same thing with Tailoring, is that they required you to max out the skill to get your bind on pickup item. Like the Primalstrike and whatnot. And that just felt a little too punishing. We’ll probably… like 350 is around, you know to give it in terms of Burning Crusade, is where we’re more comfortable with that. Kind of like we did with the Engineering goggles and things like that.

http://eu.blizzard.com/blizzcast/archive/episode4.xml

[Jaese]

Again, if you are going to mostly focus on PvP then yes it makes sense to go PvP for gear as the PvE LW gear is not good for it.

Until Wrath hits and you start all over again... wasting that 1 - 2 month grind for S2 gear.

Ya, good plan.

So what? The money you spent on all the mats for the LW stuff is wasted too. However, while the LWers were hemorrhaging money for their gear, the PvPers were banking it because their gear doesn't cost anything except patience, so who cares if it doesn't DE or vendor. Plus the vendor/DE values of the LW stuff will be insignificant when Wrath hits anyway.

It comes down to people who want to spend thousands of gold or people who are patient enough to do BGs. Either has pros and cons and both will be equally worthless when Wrath hits (the gear; training LW and PvPing aren't mutually exclusive so that is a moot point).

Time or money: choose.

[Stabface]

No way Fursphere! I pvp'd for a couple hours just the other night and made like negative 15 gold in repairs, food, water, bandages, potions, etc!

lolcat says : Time iz monies freind, om nom nom

[Skrimshaw]

your all idiots. This whole game is a grind. Whether its honor for your purples, professions for your purples, arena for your purples, instances for your purples. Argueing on which way is better is like argueing whats hotter blondes or redheads. My choice was to go the pvp method, I had a surgery planned, so I hit 70 right before it. During my two week recovery I got all my pvp gear minus my cloak. I could easily see going with leatherworking and the instance or rep GRIND to get the patterns, but that just wasn't what I prefered. Either way, this game is a time sink, its meant to be a time sink. Enjoy wasting your time as you see fit, and I will waste mine as I see fit.

[pinotnoir]

Again, if you are going to mostly focus on PvP then yes it makes sense to go PvP for gear as the PvE LW gear is not good for it.

Until Wrath hits and you start all over again... wasting that 1 - 2 month grind for S2 gear.

Ya, good plan.

The only "plan" that would make sense if you were REALLY into PvP would be to grind max honor points and marks and then bank them until you hit 80... then you could just right into the game when you reach level cap....

They are not going to let people bank honor and arena points for the xpac. Do what makes you happy.

[Xar]

Jaese, did I read you correctly in suggestion people psuedo-afk in AV by hanging in a tower? Sad... As a 5 shammy team I usually lead the HK list, only time I don't is when I rush RH when I "mix it up" instead of defending Balinda first then go offense. Please don't give us a bad name (if that's what you meant).

I've geared up in BG's after hitting 70 and had a lot of fun but really I'm pretty sick of PVP. I'll still go into AV because it's still somewhat fun. I was able to hit 1575 with 4 + healer in Arena's and got my Brutal pants and Guardian bracers on 4 but it's really not my thing and my healer partner is an arena junkie so I cut him loose because I personally can't stomach the time in arena to get where he wants to get to. I wish him much success, he's multiboxing a group of 4 now himself.

I went LW on all 5 of my shaman partially so I could get drums for use in BG's. So far 2 are high enough to use drums and my main will be 375 today and make her Hurricane boots. I had bought 5x patterns before my shaman were 70 when they were cheap on the AH. Yeah I know drums are planned to be somewhat nerfed in the xpac but still, I'm looking forward to what will be craftable down the line in wrath.

[Jaws5]

All of you have good points a least points :)

it all comes down to what we like to do, I love to pvp , so the pvp grind.

Need gold daily sso grind.

PVP in AV can make you gold (not lots , but some )
also blood turn-ins are way to get more Org and horde rep. (nets you more gold over long term)

Only grind that i see as good now is lvling more toons to 60 using RAF :)

[Kyudo]

They are not going to let people bank honor and arena points for the xpac. Do what makes you happy.Got any blue confirmation or source for this Pinot? I'd be interested to see.

[Jaese]

So what? The money you spent on all the mats for the LW stuff is wasted too.

learn2read

You'll still have a fully leveled profession.

And you don't make money PvPing.
Like I said, PvP and profession leveling isn't mutually exclusive (do both, whatever, it's your time and money). l2read yourself. This thread is about if you were to choose one (1, I, eins, uno) and the pros and cons of either. By my posting you can see I am pro-PvP.

Dunno about other people, but I typically do some dailies before I start on the day's grind (or in between, to break up the monotony). I didn't state PvPing awarded money, just that the gear didn't cost any, nor did I infer that LWers would gain no money whatsoever, just that what they gain is spent on mats (if they choose to buy them).

Any other confusion regarding my post that I may explain further for you?


Jaese, did I read you correctly in suggestion people psuedo-afk in AV by hanging in a tower? Sad... As a 5 shammy team I usually lead the HK list, only time I don't is when I rush RH when I "mix it up" instead of defending Balinda first then go offense. Please don't give us a bad name (if that's what you meant).
People will take my post for that they will. Other people's actions are their own business, not mine. Just like what I do is my business and you shouldn't be concerned about it.

But since you asked, I've only played AV as Horde (these are my first serious Ally chars since Feb '05). What I did on my Horde char was rush Bal, then defend IWB. I may alt-tab to stay awake but I have the "sound while the game is in the background" toggled on, so I know when Ally is moving on the bunker. After that I'm usually on the front lines helping as best a ret paly can help. ;)

Also, having the most HKs means nothing in BGs, especially AV. Back cappers are integral to the team and don't typically have many HKs. All that matters is if we get 3 marks or 1 at the end.

[Xar]

Pop in a movie and park your butt in a tower in AV. ;)

Granted, the other 3 BGs require a tad more brainpower to avoid getting AFKed. :/

People will take my post for that they will. Other people's actions are their own business, not mine. Just like what I do is my business and you shouldn't be concerned about it.

But since you asked, I've only played AV as Horde (these are my first serious Ally chars since Feb '05). What I did on my Horde char was rush Bal, then defend IWB. I may alt-tab to stay awake but I have the "sound while the game is in the background" toggled on, so I know when Ally is moving on the bunker. After that I'm usually on the front lines helping as best a ret paly can help. ;)

Also, having the most HKs means nothing in BGs, especially AV. Back cappers are integral to the team and don't typically have many HKs. All that matters is if we get 3 marks or 1 at the end.

You're right, I don't really care what you do in battlegrounds but when you say to pop in a movie and "avoid getting AFK'd", it sounds kinda bad. I can't imagine trying to watch a movie and BG myself. Maybe that's explains why Alliance sucks at BG's sometimes, they're all watching movies? My main concern is giving advice on how to get gear without effort (i.e. afk honor & mark grinding).

All I meant by the HK's was that I was out there doing everything possible to to either move forward or take back bunkers. Sometimes I've rode back and forth 10 times between Balinda and Dun Baldar in a single AV and it paid off with a win. :)

Peace.