No Mage or Warlock MB Arena Teams?

[shockernub]

I was just wondering if there are any 4xMage or Warlock teams competing, all I ever see is shaman teams, including my own, lol.

I have a pretty decently geared warlock of my own and was considering leveling a few more, but it doesn't look like they can compete?

[Vyndree]

Suvega runs 4x mage with my resto shaman healing him. He is nearly full s3, one of his mages is geared slightly better since he solo-played it prior to multiboxing.

Our rating right now? 1337. As cool as that number is, it's not that great. It really shouldn't be that low, but we ran into a team with 2x nether protection warlocks with shadowfury -- and he had recently respecced POM+Pyro. (We managed to hit these guys several times in a row)

We tried frost but it couldn't guarantee someone would die and just resulted in longer losses. When he respecced fire he had better success against everything but nether protection warlocks.

Major issues:
Fear + 1 tremor = chaos
Ice blocks helpful (I call out which one he should iceblock since I'm healing)
LoS and lack of individual movement
Lack of ability to utilize sheep effectively (he doesn't even bother using it anymore)
Lack of ability to utilize speed effects such as blazing speed, blink, etc
Easily locked-down healer (shaman -- no instant heals or pain suppression)

Current tactic:
Rush out the gate
Resto shaman lays WoA + tremor while mages PoM+Pyro most dangerous non-pally/non-warlock target -- typically targeting warriors first
Heroism
If resto shaman is enemy target, commence resto shaman pillar hump
If mages are enemy target and resto shaman not getting locked down, lawl and chainheal/hw/lhw away -- resto shaman calls out for iceblocks when spikes happen. Offensive purging/snares when able.
If mages are enemy target and resto shaman is getting kicked, frost nova the rogue and kill it, if possible

[Dooz]

If resto shaman is enemy target, commence resto shaman pillar hump

made me LOL at work.

[Kayley]

Nice Nice. Once you feel ready (geared, strats, etc) I would love to see this in action. Shame about blink though.
:thumbsup:

[Dave]

Vyn have you and suvega considered frost mages? I can imagine 4 mages performing shatter combos with pets running around quite effective. You could even split dps with your mages working on one target and your pets all 4 on another, at around 1k per bolt from the pets and trying to set up nova/ice-lance combos (God forbid you were to ever get off an acutal shatter combo off ie. frostbolt+icelance with all 4 mages on one target). And it could help survivablity out a bit. A lot of management and work in this comp but I think it would work well for you guys.

Let me know your thoughts

EDIT: Just re-read the post. After trying 4 frost I guess it didn't work. =(

[shockernub]

good to see at least one other class of mb'rs doing arenas, was hoping to see a warlock team or boomkins too. I've thought of leveling some more warlocks to play with my fairly well geared S2/S3 lock, but guess it wouldn't work so hot, and a load of time to invest to get there.

Oh well, still enjoying my 4x shaman, actually have 4xshaman and 1 pali, but really think a fifth shaman would be better than the pali, he isn't very good at holding aggro with the group, lol.

[Bradster]

I thought about it, but provided how bad my gear is I'd rather not go in being a free HK, loose a ton, at which point towards the end I start to get nice gear and might be able to do something then Xpac comes out and thus a gear reset. After the Xpac i plan to hit it before all the gear comes in to play.

So i figured time is better spent leveling alts right now.

[Ellay]

I ran into the same issue you guys had with Mage in Arena >< granted I only played 3 at the time instead of 4, but Ice Block wasn't even an option unless you went Frost. Overall it felt clunky and as mentioned a lot of their abilities that make them viable in an arena setting just can't be fully utilized when multiboxing. If Water Ele Freeze could be more streamlined in that you could use your main to somehow target your secondary characters Freeze, it would be insanely awesome. Just set it in rotation :) easy dead targets.

[Tasty]

Disc priest / four pom pyro mages. I sub out one mage when friends need the points. We win 50% of the games.

[heyaz]

I want to try it, but I figure I'll just embarass myself. Of course my team is a bit more hybrid with the 2 priests. Grouping would probably have to be with a paladin for bop and bof, and something with a bit more armor. But my real plan is to join 2 decent 5v5s and 3v3s, one for the priests and one for the locks and just swap them out every few games. Should get all 4 toons in season 4 at the same rate as if I was playing just one.

[Jaws5]

I have not tired the 5 man (4 locks and shadow priest) gear too dated.

it team has three healers and 2 rogues , game over getting two sets of soc off if they are bunched would be fun

team dies very fast

:(

[Ellay]

With the recruit a friend I'd like to try 4 Spriests and 4 Warlocks. If anything they seem like 'fun' to play and thats the name of the game!

[Mosg2]

Funny that I saw this Ellay, because I was getting ready to make a forum post about this issue looking for your input :)

With the Recruit-A-Friend I plan on leveling another team or two to 60 over the next few weeks. I've narrowed it down to SPriests or Warlocks--Seems to me that Hunters just couldn't be viable in Arena because their whole team can just dismount on you. Neither Warlocks or SPriests have much burst relatively speaking, but both teams seem like they could do a lot of damage and force a lot of awkward situations. Could you imagine having two or three opponents fully dotted from a 4x Warlock team?

In any case, I wanted to get your Theorycrafting on the issue since you've pioneered the Shaman Arena'ing.

[Ellay]

Ya I envision lots of dots on multiple people :)

I see priests being obnoxious though with Mass Dispel removing chunks of dots very quickly and teams being able to heal through it without going on defensive meaning their 2-4 DPS are just drilling your players. Everyone on your team wears cloth.

I really want someone or myself to eventually try them out at an Arena level to give a better perspective. The only information I have on Spriests in arena is that a triple boxer did decent but required a UA lock to be effective.
As for Warlocks there are quite a few of them lurking around on the boards, their input is invaluable.

[Zub]

I see priests being obnoxious though with Mass Dispel
Wouldn't that be alot of UA booms?

[Tasty]

I see priests being obnoxious though with Mass Dispel A little off topic but Imp Mass Dispel is a good way to remove aoe fear as well, particularly cause your priest can fearward itself. (Just need mad clicking skills and good reaction time hehe)

[Mosg2]

I've decided to do SPriests for my next group. I should have them to 60 within a couple days with RAF.

I don't think any class that can't heal or has a gib (POM-Pyro or NS-EM-CL) is going to be competitive. Since there's no burst difference between SPriests and Warlocks... We're going with SPriests.

[heyaz]

I've decided to do SPriests for my next group. I should have them to 60 within a couple days with RAF.

I don't think any class that can't heal or has a gib (POM-Pyro or NS-EM-CL) is going to be competitive. Since there's no burst difference between SPriests and Warlocks... We're going with SPriests.Shadow priests are one trick ponies and they go oom in like 30 seconds, but other than that, could be fun. You'd be spamming mind flay a lot because mind blast is their only nuke and it has a cooldown. Shadow word death is nice, but 3 of your 4 priests will take a nice 1-2k damage from it because only one can get the killing blow.

[Dominian]

Maybe 4 UA locks can work but even then it will be hard because your normally facing Paladin+Priest and the reason for this combo beeing so insane is the paladins singel nuke heals and the priests healing + utility and not to speak of dispelling.

Paladins is realy the kings of healing when they can go on uniterrupted and thats why you will have a hard time to control the paladin.

First he will hug a pillar to avoid fears wich in most cases you wont have time for and unless you can apply UA they can dispell you at about the half rate if you take the talent wich gives your dots 30% dispell resistance. My paladins holy light heals for about 4k and crits for 6-7k and my healing gear is around 1200-1300 while most paladins now is upto 1600-1700.

I actually belive that UA locks is the spec and class that can kill healers 1vs1 fastest in the game. (apart from a druid that is smart enough to run away)

Cot,dots and a fear with a well placed spellock kills even the most skilled healers, if he decides to pillar hump change to CoEx.

You wont realy stress 2 healers without the use of CoT,fear and spellock and even if you get the dots on all 5 you will have a very hard time keeping yourself up against them long enough. UA and destro locks is the ultimate glass canons in this game because of the insane damage output. What is the plan against warriors or even teams with 2 warriors? As UA you cant realy avoid them with deathwish and berserker rage so i would consider you lucky to survive Deathwish. Charge>sweeping strikes>berserker stance> deatwish mortal/heroic strike. Mage with Frost nova + CoC twice (assuming he uses his pet) then a iceblock to wait for his next frost nova...

A skilled team with Belf rogues will give you a 2 second delay on when you can start.

As SL/SL you will last long but will your fears are easy dispelled and your weakest link would clearly be your healer.

[Dave]

1 UA lock and 3 sl/sl locks with a priest is the way to go. As far as healers go, I don't care what class they are or how much +healing they have. I"ve leveled and healed on every class around 1500-1600ish, and there is no way if you threw 16+ dots on 3 seperate targets that anyone could heal through it. Also, you need sl/sl locks for the simple fact of survivablity. Against warrior cleave teams you would get your ass handed to you if you didn't have 3 sl/sl and that is a very popular comp now a days. Just make sure your first cast is UA from the ua lock and then you don't have to worry about dispels and you win. Pretty simple.

EDIT: I also disagree with the above poster. If you have 12+ dots ticking on 3 targets, you WILL stress the healers and one or two well timed deathcoils + a nightfall proc and it's game over. Also the plan against warrior teams is easy. Dot them up and los them from their own healers. It really does work like a miracle.

[merujo]

Ur first cast is UA, and they just go to LOS spots, and wait until it goes of. What will u do then? rush them, fear them and pray for ticks to kill someone? i dont think its that simple.

[Dominian]

It will work wonders in the start and against certain teams im not in doubt of that mate but they will figure out whos your UA lock and take advantage of it! You cant get a UA off against a warrior that charges in and even less when the rogue saps your priests and start stunlocking your UA lock.

The key to win is certainly the UA lock i agree on that but it will take a sap+blind and your healer is out of the game.

Facing sl/sl locks in the arena alone isnt any stress since i can negate theyr damage by dispelling.

But imagine a warrior/rogue and a frost mage focusing your UA lock while ignoring the others.

Its impossible to say for 100% but i realy have my doubts in this setup but your very welcome to prove me wrong :)

[shockernub]

So with 4 SL/SL locks, no UA, you think a healer would be able to keep up the dispelling without having to heal? I would think if you went into the arena, and spread out so everyone couldn't get feared, CC'd at the same time, you would be able to get off a lot of dots before anyone was killed, even if one is focused, you would have 3 casting DOTs on everything, and with deathcoil on round robin, it may be a pretty effective CC of at least one healer, not to mention the 4 felhounds eating away at the healer(s) cast bar.

Sounds fun to me, but I highly doubt I'll get my little lock team to 70 before WOTLK, esp since I still need a ton of gear on my shaman. :D

[Jackiepaper]

Currently I am boxing Locks in 3's with limited success. As I have worked out variuos strats I fluxuate between 1450 and 1700. Honestly pretty much any team under 1600 I am winning because i just flatout outgear teams at that rating. My goal is to hit 2050 in 3's. For one of the warlocks this is the only team I am playing him on.

The set up I use is 2 Gnome Locks and 1 Human all 3 are geared s2 or better with my main being s4 geared. All of them are boxed on one PC. I have 2200 experience, so from a technical perspective I have a pretty good idea on the class mechanics for arenas. My biggest problem at this point is boxing execution which I think I am turning the corner on. I really heavily on focus macros for cc so not using focus follow/assist macros I think puts me at a disadvantage.

All 3 Locks are Sl/SL. After playing 200+ games with various combinations not only is SL/SL just easier to manage, but when the fight comes down to 1 v 1 an SL lock is just vastly superior.

I use the human with a felhunter as the main and the gnomes with suckies as clones. The idea here is to set up a focus target on a healer or mage with the Felhunter for spelllock and to focus DPS with the suckies for chain seduce. The other added benifit with the suckies is the damage bnonus.

When things go right:

I will pick a target that doesnt have some sort of bubble for primary DPS. Typically warrior, hunter or lock. Once I am sure of my primary DPS target I will send in the suckies for chain seduce on my CC target and engage. The DR on Seduce is pretty bad, but I try to time it so that as seduce wears off 1 second later another one lands. After DR is hit on Seduce I go into a Deathcoil rotation. I can effectively CC for 20-25 seconds. At this point as soon the primary healer shows to heal or dispell I put him into a fear rotation that usually will win the game

Now 3 sets of trinked dots on anything other than a Mage, Rogue or Pally is over 30k damage. If I get one spellock on a healer it can be gg already. At this point assuming there is a healer I will apply 3 sets of dots on the healer making sure to keep tongues up. When I get a good opener agianst teams with out Rogues or Mages I can't remember ever losing.

I don't buy the argument that this can be healed through or dispelled.This isn't being dispelled in 3's so I don't see how it could be dispelled in 5's. When i lose it is because of rogue arena infestation or the other team just cc'd me better and I couldn't get all my dot's up.

[Jaws5]

depends on healer, if a paldin the can bubble once.

also rogues and mages can dump dots very quickly.

If you could full aff 16 dots and life drain drain work great.

problem is lasting until dots tick down. Soul shard can help but only a little.

:)

[Ellay]

In 5's, there is usuallyl 2 dedicated healers usually a main healer and one that is offhealing an dispelling. Such as 2345 uses a Paladin for main healing and a Priest for dispels and whatnot, Euro comp is the same with Druid main healing and priest dispelling.

[Ellay]

Good luck though on your goal of 2050, I do hope you make it :) Would enjoy a different flavor besides Shaman x1101010000101010!

[Mosg2]

Ellay, any comment on what you think would be the second most competitive 4x for Arenas?

[Mosg2]

Some rough numbers for everyone's edification (+1100 spell damage):

Corruption: 900dmg over 18 seconds, gets 129.5% of spell damage, +15%dmg from talents: 2675dmg over 18 = 148dps
Siphon Life: 630dmg over 30 seconds, gets 100% of spell damage, 10%dmg from talents: 1900dmg over 30 = 63dps
Curse of Agony: 1356dmg over 24 seconds, gets 100% of spell damage, +25%dmg from talents: 3070 over 24 = 128dps

Total dps for one Warlock via dots: 339dps
Total dps for four Warlocks via dots: 1359dps

That's rough, but... That's probably 15+ seconds of 4x dots to kill someone that does not have any removed and does not receive any healing. Now, that's fire-and-forget power but you're still talking about 4.5 total seconds of GCD to get that on someone AND assuming nobody is CC'd at all.

Not near as much damage as I was thinking about. Definitely going to go Priest now methinks.

[Ellay]

It's a toss up without actually being able to do it myself between Shadow Priest / Warlock / Hunter.

I think any combo can get to 1750, I'm just looking at areas where the breakdown of the team composition is too hard to overcome.

A really good thing Shadow Priests have going for them at the moment is Psychic scream having a 4 second horror effect in the expansion. This will allow you to load up a Mind Blast -> SW: D -> and then Mind Flay to finish. I can see that being the bread and butter. I would envision a fight going as such.. SW:P 2 targets to make their healers try to dispel ( note they have to dispel a ton of additional magical effects, 4 stack of Shadow Weaving, Misery) on top of the 4 SW:P. At this point you can either switch to a completely new target and do the above mentioned combo or on one your working down on.
Blackout procing will happen quite often allowing the target to stay stunned in place. If you get in trouble the new 51 point talent is pretty close to a Iceblock with HP/MP healed.

Warlocks are sort of in the same scenario, but without the bursting down. They have an insane amount of dots to apply - I'd say go for 2-3 targets, fully dot then try to survive yourself by utilizing drain life on one of the targets for the kill (I'd need to actually play the class at 70 to get a better feel for tactics).

Hunters is a verrrrry bursty class. I have 4x 63 Hunters right now, I'm somewhat bored leveling them but with the right gear you can be close to having that 1 shot effect Shamans do but at a larger range and much faster. Auto Shot + Arcane Shot + Multi Shot within a 1-2~ second time frame is GG. And the pets with their 3 second stun from stealth can set up an easy kill.

Even Druids could be the next big thing, but I have no experience with them.

[Dave]

Ur first cast is UA, and they just go to LOS spots, and wait until it goes of. What will u do then? rush them, fear them and pray for ticks to kill someone? i dont think its that simple.

C'mon Merujo, I'm not an idiot here. You obviously have to time things and learn how to make it effective ie. use LOS to your advantage and DC the correct targets.

I don't think you run push 4 buttons and profit a 16 point increase, but if you really think that's how I think in my posts I will clarify in extreme detail for you from now on.

[Ellay]

Me talking about Spriests out loud makes me want to play around with them for a bit :)

[Mosg2]

Hehe Ellay, you got me a bit more stoked about Hunters honestly. It seems like being able to stop all your dps by mounting on top of the Hunters is just too big of a threat, but... shrug. The horror effect on the fear is biiiiig, especially considering the first hits for 4 seconds plus a fear on top of it. If they trinket you just do it again and you'll get another ~5 seconds of CC out of it.

I have 5 "main" accounts and 5 RAF accounts. I'm going to power level one set of 4x priests to 60, then do 4x warlock to 30 on the opposite accounts and then gift the warlocks to 60. Quick and easy--Then I'll just casually grind'em to 70. I'd like to cap honor, tokens, and arena on at least two teams pre-expansion so that I'm ready one way or the other.

[Ellay]

The thing is everyone is getting a ton of insane new abilities in the expansion, so it's hard to base any ability off what they are doing. Shamans get Thunder which I would say is the equivalent easily of a psychic scream with 4 seconds of horror effect.

[Dominian]

Some rough numbers for everyone's edification (+1100 spell damage):

Corruption: 900dmg over 18 seconds, gets 129.5% of spell damage, +15%dmg from talents: 2675dmg over 18 = 148dps
Siphon Life: 630dmg over 30 seconds, gets 100% of spell damage, 10%dmg from talents: 1900dmg over 30 = 63dps
Curse of Agony: 1356dmg over 24 seconds, gets 100% of spell damage, +25%dmg from talents: 3070 over 24 = 128dps

Total dps for one Warlock via dots: 339dps
Total dps for four Warlocks via dots: 1359dps

That's rough, but... That's probably 15+ seconds of 4x dots to kill someone that does not have any removed and does not receive any healing. Now, that's fire-and-forget power but you're still talking about 4.5 total seconds of GCD to get that on someone AND assuming nobody is CC'd at all.

Not near as much damage as I was thinking about. Definitely going to go Priest now methinks.

What you actually forgot to add is the damage reduction resillience gives. Not to speak off the shadow resistance buff priests can give you. (Since paladins use con aura)




Another thing people also forget warlocks spellstone who can remove all magic effects at once. Ofc you get this one aswell wich can be a nice counter towards frost nova etc. Dooing arena as a sl/sl lock always have been about control so if you can do that eveything is possible but my knowledge from both my druid and paladin is that a sl/sl lock cant kill me unless they have a uber lucky chain fear with me scewing up and getting spellocked. Cleansing at my paladin pretty much removes the need of healing vs sl locks and i can do it while running so its not hard to los new dots.

Alot can change with demon form and aoe shadowbolts so it will be fun to see!

[merujo]

Ur first cast is UA, and they just go to LOS spots, and wait until it goes of. What will u do then? rush them, fear them and pray for ticks to kill someone? i dont think its that simple.

C'mon Merujo, I'm not an idiot here. You obviously have to time things and learn how to make it effective ie. use LOS to your advantage and DC the correct targets.

I don't think you run push 4 buttons and profit a 16 point increase, but if you really think that's how I think in my posts I will clarify in extreme detail for you from now on.

Ofc i know that u know its not so easy. But u made it sound easy :)