Seriously ridiculous difference between horde and alliance 5v5 teams

[magwo]

Alliance teams: easy win
Horde teams: humiliating loss


It all comes down to two racial abilities:
Warstomp Arcane torrent (AoE silence)
Nothing else. I understand that multibox shaman are extra sensitive to this mechanic.. but.. this stuff should be rebalanced in my opinion. Alliance has suffered from vastly inferior racial abilities since WoW was released. I don't get the design behind that. Is it to make up for a lower horde population or something?

[merujo]

Is it to make up for a lower horde population or something?

:)
i've always said that, to make up for a character without a jaw, they would have a self pvp trinket :P

seriously, i think that op racials were a measure to make ppl go Horde. Everyone wanted a hot night elf :P
ya ya u can bring the bashing: "i didnt went horde, for the racials, i went because i always loved it, lore, etc, etc" TRUE!

but when it comes down to arenas, those differences come into play, and decide games.
but the reverse also happens, i remember perception being a useless spell, and now ally rogue teams win with it.

u just gotta live with them (racials) :P btw, arcane torrent won't have GCD in WotlK :P

[magwo]

To make arena competitive.. racials should be disabled in arena.. and everyone should be given the best gear whilst in the arena. Bleh.
I played 10 games today.. we met 10 horde teams. 3-7.. :\

Really, I don't see what Blizzard is trying to achieve with their rating requirements. It just widens the gap between good players and really good players, pushing the good players down while the really good players go into extra extra easy mode.


Edit: Yes, I've posted this on the suggestions forum.. people don't really seem to get it.

[merujo]

Well, a new season as started, and most teams, even top ones, are doing 10 games per week. In my battlegroup, the top 5v5 teams are doing around 10/15 games week, and that ends up on the lower brackets meeting higher brackets on arenas. Im constantly facing full vengefull or vengefull/brutals in arenas @ 1500+. Im still working on my merciless gear and have a 50% win, i really think its not that bad. Skill counts, and gear matters.

As for what rating requirements stand for, well, i really would love to have some s4 shoulders, but would it be fun, like in S1/S2 everyone would look like pro's ?
ur gear is mainly, the weapons u have, and the shoulders, i mean, thats what sticks out right ?
Thats why there's ratings lol, to actually feel different from those peeps that do 10 a week on 1000 rating.


It just widens the gap between good players and really good players, pushing the good players down while the really good players go into extra extra easy mode.
That's exactly the point. If ppl are really skilled, they must look different from everyone else that isn't, therefore, earning gear :P

[Mercurio]

Alliance teams: easy win
Horde teams: humiliating loss


It all comes down to two racial abilities:

Warstomp
Arcane torrent (AoE silence)

Nothing else.

/rant on

Amen, brother!

After losing so many arena battles to groups of all tauren/blood elf set-ups, I'm almost ready to reroll horde, level up to 70, farm BGs for a month, lose 10 arena games/wk for 3 months, run about 50 heroics, and get gear similar to what my alliance guys have now.... all just to get Warstomp/Arcane Torrent.

I'll wager good money that the highest ranked teams on all battlegroups are horde, simply due to the racials.

It is frustrating that in the first 20 seconds of creating a character you can so screw yourself that in the next 40 days played you'll never be as good at an area of the game Blizzard *almost* forces you to play to get decent gear.

/rant off

Now for the unrelated but much needed :D

[magwo]

Amen, brother! Good to see someone agree. I would also love to be tauren/belf. Just imagine the amount of major destruction you could put out with sequenced warstomps.



That's exactly the point. If ppl are really skilled, they must look different from everyone else that isn't, therefore, earning gear You missed the point. Arena should be highly competitive in my opinion. The really skilled players shouldn't have a game mechanic advantage over the skilled players. It's just insane to introduce positive feedback ('http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positive_feedback') [Wikipedia] in a system that is already semi-unstable due to more points being given for higher rating.

[Lyonheart]

or in WotlK round robin warstomp..thunderstorm..warstomp..so on and so forth. You only need to do that when they are in your face.. but it gives shamies the ability to "rush" groups now.

[Dave]

I agree strictly in the 5v5 scenario though.

[Depherios]

Oh man... Bloody NEs shadowmeld drinking have ruined so many Arena matches for me (as a non multiboxer) -- But yeah... that's about it for alliance.

The general rule initially was that alliance had more PvE abilities and Racials, Horde were more PvP oriented, but that obviously led to balance issues they still haven't straightened out. >_<

I love me some horde though :D -- and I can safely say it doesn't have to do with racials because I rolled a Troll Priest 3 years ago when their racials were BY FAR the worst in the game XD

[Alemi]

I'll wager good money that the highest ranked teams on all battlegroups are horde, simply due to the racials.


You would loose the wager, here's what I just pulled up since I'm bored sitting on hold :

Top 10 teams per Battlegroup

Bloodlust : 5 Alliance, 5 Horde
Cyclone : 5 Alliance, 5 Horde
Emberstorm: 7 Alliance, 3 Horde
Nightfall: 2 Alliance, 8 Horde
Rampage: 5 Alliance, 5 Horde
Reckoning: 2 Alliance, 8 Horde
Retailiation: 4 Alliance, 6 Horde
Shadowburn: 10 Horde
Stormstrike: 5 Alliance, 5 Horde
Vengeance: 5 Alliance, 5 Horde
Vindication: 5 Alliance, 5 Horde
Whirlwind: 5 Alliance, 5 Horde

Overall: 50 (42%) Alliance, 70 (58%) Horde

So - I think the overstatement of horde racials in arena are, just that, overstated. Just because alliance racials don't necessarily favor multiboxing teams, doesn't mean they're any less op in certain circumstances. Tell the undead rogue who just got opened on by the human rogue with perception, dwarven stoneform + desperate prayer is a nice out for any priest on a hunter/rogue, and as has been mentioned druid shadowmeld drinking is horrible in 2s and 3s.

In a normal 5s situation, arcane torrent and war stomp might stop 1 or 2 people or stop that critical heal from going through, but it's more unlikely since characters are moving independently. For a multiboxer it's a pain, yes, but you'll adapt.

[Crayonbox]

For alliance boxers, boxers are overly sensitive to AOE crowd control type spells. Theres really no other way of saying it. Last week in 5s I fought a team with 3 blood elves and 2 taurens. their comp was utter trash but they still won with focus fire because 3 silence and then 2 stuns disabled me for a good 10-15 seconds.

As frustrating as it is, it's situational and I doubt anything will be nerfed anytime soon. Personally I'd like to see the aoe silence blood elves get removed but I'm a bit biased. i hate blood elves.

[Farleito]

...right... cause the ability to "shadowmeld" isn't OP. I was tricked into thinking I was up against rogues/druids when it was 3 hunters. Totally caught me off guard.

How about AB? Running up to a flag when 8 people are stealthed... priests, hunters, warriors... etc.

[Dave]

Just to claify my post, I agreed that the Two Racials: Warstomp and AOE Silence were OP in 5v5 Arena Only. When I competed in the arena tournament on the arena realm other than undead for rogues, most players were alliance for perception, priest racials, and stoneform dwarf hunters. Those are racials just as IMBA in 2v2/3v3 situations. Racials are fine albeit a tad frustrating to be shutdown by them, just learn to adapt your playstyle.

[Jaws5]

Shadow meld for Alliance is best for pvp

for rogues preception

stone form is very nice for dealing wth rogues


I played both sides. I just like horde side for alround play.

for 5 boxing undead is so nice but you can't be hunters, shammy.


BE can not be wars and shammy.

Allaince goat can be all but rogue I think.?

:)

[Dominian]

I dont want to flame but why would ANY normal 5vs5 team with only casters hug together it has nearly no benefits at all.

It would be considered braindead against teams with taurens and belfs.

Blizzard havent designed the racials to be balanced around our boxing.

The only class theese days who can complain about racials is trolls and to a good degree draenei.

Perception is the best racial for rogues with WOTF and pretty good for the rest aswell.
Escape Artist is usefull in most fights even with the fail chance.
Stoneform is needless to say why Dorf priests is the worst thing i face on my rogue.
Shadowmeld is very nice for druids,priests and hunters but useless for rogues but they had the option to take perception,escape artist or even stoneform.
Gift of the Naaru is oh well far from OP.
Berserking is the reason for i never went trolls on any of my chars.. The second is that i dont like trolls but i dislike theyr racial even more.
Tauren warstomp and 5% hp good but only against people who like to hug theyr boyfriends. And against casters without who doesnt use hots n dots!
Bloodfury and 15% stun resistance is in my own option the best racial for both my warrior,hunter and shamans.
WOTF is good but i would rather have Perception since the first rogues out of stealth is usualy the one who loses in 2vs2.