Win Trading

[Drizzit]

According to blizzard blue


There have been a number of questions recently on what exactly falls into the category of Win Trading in Arena matches, and therefore what is and is not considered acceptable, so we would like to provide some clarification on what is considered fair gameplay in Arena matches.

The act of Win Trading may be described as the carrying out of premeditated plans to rise in arena rating by means of determining the outcome of a match prior or during its taking place. Win trading goes against the spirit of World of Warcraft and devalues the enjoyment of the game for all players who earn their victories by competing in a fair environment.

Win Trading includes players tampering with, or otherwise abusing the queue system as well as colluding to enter into an arena match with a specific opposing team. In the case of arena collusion, we consider any situation where the standard queue possibilities are bypassed through an abuse of mechanics to be a violation of policy. This includes, but is not limited to, the act of tampering with one’s team roster with exploitive intentions as well as setting up a situation that bypasses the randomness of our queue system where a team has a specific and predetermined opponent and repeatedly faces that team. Queuing against a known and affiliated opponent gives a competitive advantage over players who are entering the queue at random. We have measures in place to take action against any account found to be using these practices to advance their characters.

These described actions all fall in line with our fair use clause in the Terms of Use, which specifically states:

Nonetheless, certain acts go beyond what is "fair" and are considered serious violations of these Terms of Use. Those acts include, but are not necessarily limited to, the following:
1. Using or exploiting errors in design, features which have not been documented, and/or "program bugs" to gain access that is otherwise not available, or to obtain a competitive advantage over other players;

With that being said we are aware that players will often face the same team multiple times in succession due to a lack of similarly rated teams in the queue. Naturally this is not in violation, nor should players worry if ever they happen upon a situation such as this, but we will invoke action against any team when the team in question creates an agreement to exchange matches or tamper with the queuing system. Regardless of the content of these games, this presents a conflict of interest that we wish to deter in order to keep our arena system competitive.

In our continued efforts to support fair gameplay we have taken steps to ensure fair and enjoyable competition in the Arena by taking action on players who are found to be involved in Win Trading. Actions for violations may include not only penalties to the account but also confiscation of any gear that has been won if deemed necessary. Our Support staff will continue to enforce fair gameplay in Arena matches and all aspects of the game and will continue to address any new concerns to ensure that the playing field is kept fair. So for everyone out there that has 5 man teams just to lose your 10 a week is not against the rules... This is how i came to this


The act of Win Trading may be described as the carrying out of premeditated plans to RISE in arena rating by means of determining the outcome of a match prior or during its taking place. Sense you are losing, even though you know the outcome (lose), but you are not RISING your rating. This seems like a gray area though.


TO ADMINS:
I am just reading what the blue says. If there is a problem please delete this post (i do not want to break the rules on this site) and send me a pm telling me why.

[Crucial]

So for everyone out there that has 5 man teams just to lose your 10 a week is not against the rules... This is how i came to this



The act of Win Trading may be described as the carrying out of premeditated plans to RISE in arena rating by means of determining the outcome of a match prior or during its taking place. Sense you are losing, even though you know the outcome (lose), but you are not RISING your rating. This seems like a gray area though.


Some of us lose 10 games even if we try, so I think we're OK there ..... :)

[Sanctume]

This won't stop full S4 geared players to start selling their team spots to "carry" buyers

[Meathead]

Yea This is fair what i find to be annoying in arena is that the full veng/brut teams are starting new teams and staying in the 1500 bracet so its harder for us but later in the season it will be alot easier

[Ticks]

Yea This is fair what i find to be annoying in arena is that the full veng/brut teams are starting new teams and staying in the 1500 bracet so its harder for us but later in the season it will be alot easier

I don't believe that they can do this any longer. Matches aren't based on team rating, it's based on the highest personal rating. This used to frustrate me to no end. Trying to climb out of the 1500 bracket when going up against players in high end pvp gear was near impossible.

I always thought (and still do) that points awarded should be based on the gear teams are wearing rather than the rating of the team. I think teams in blues and purples should get more points if they beat a team in full purples and vice versa. That would properly implement more reward for greater risk.

[Vyndree]

TO ADMINS:
I am just reading what the blue says. If there is a problem please delete this post (i do not want to break the rules on this site) and send me a pm telling me why.

Clarification on the rules is certainly not a bad thing. :) We just discourage TEACHING or ENCOURAGING people to cheat -- your post does neither of those things. :)


Sense you are losing, even though you know the outcome (lose), but you are not RISING your rating. This seems like a gray area though.
This I disagree with. They are defining WIN TRADING. However, I have another blue post that I've already linked on these forums (I'll have to dig around to find it) that does specify that losing, ON PURPOSE, constitutes NON-PARTICIPATION, which can be actionable. Losing on purpose may not be win trading, but that doesn't mean it's not bannable.

In any case, I'm a bit busy at the moment but I'll try to look up the blue post for clarity ('http://www.dual-boxing.com/forums/index.php?page=Thread&postID=96414#post96414').



EDIT: Blue post links here -- Win Trading ('http://www.dual-boxing.com/forums/index.php?page=Thread&postID=96414#post96414')

[zanthor]

What blows my mind is I've NEVER had trouble losing 5v5 fast... in fact i try to win but every time it ends poorly... normally a LONG match is 15-20 seconds after the gates open... so don't lose on purpose, just use my sucky tactics of barely knowing how to play pvp and charging in trying to find who you should focus fire.

[HTeam]

The bannings for losing on purpose were generally for the preform bg teams that were going in, losing fast and picking up a mark.

In win trading on team is, of course, losing on purpose but this is usually referred to as "win trading" instead of "losing on purpose" (see above).

"Losing on purpose" is entirely different than "knowing you have no chance to win but choose to play anyway", which might describe my efforts in the arena.

"Win trading" is intentionally going up against someone you want to give the win to. Indeed, you may actually try hard to win if you don't get the matchup you want. The typical use of this was to get one team a gladiator title by levelling up several teams to 2300+, then queueing at some bizarre time to go head to head. All the alt teams would lose to the main one, pushing them just a tad higher. The alt teams would then go back and play more to re-establish a rating to push the main team higher on the next run.

Both win trading to boost someone else's arena and losing on purpose to pick up marks are punishable.

"having no chance to win" is merely punishing. "What do you mean you respecced your warrior to prot on arena night?"

[Vyndree]

I'm not saying they can ban you for losing too many games -- after all, Blizz can't blame you for sucking at PvP (due to skill, gear, spec, or any other reason).

However, someone was asking if they could /dance their way to losses in arenas, or AFK their 10 games, and a blue posted that it would be bannable due to nonparticipation. You may lose all your games, but you MUST actually play them. Even if you're prot.

[Tidomann]

Win trading BAD

Dodging queues

[Otlecs]

However, I have another blue post that I've already linked on these forums (I'll have to dig around to find it) that does specify that losing, ON PURPOSE, constitutes NON-PARTICIPATION, which can be actionable.
I'd like to see that too. I am aware that non-participation in battlegrounds is actionable, but I was (am) unaware that non-participation in areas was similarly actionable.

I had a quick search, a Google, and even soiled my virtual fingers by dipping them into the WoW forums for a search, but couldn't find anything about this applying to arenas.

It's moot for me - I'm just not bothering with arenas this season in any case, but it never hurts to be fully informed so I'll look forward to seeing that later :)

[Kayley]

Win trading BAD

Dodging queues Dodging people? lol Nothing bad about it. Only frustration if you are the better team :P

[Sanctume]

I'm not saying they can ban you for losing too many games -- after all, Blizz can't blame you for sucking at PvP (due to skill, gear, spec, or any other reason).

However, someone was asking if they could /dance their way to losses in arenas, or AFK their 10 games, and a blue posted that it would be bannable due to nonparticipation. You may lose all your games, but you MUST actually play them. Even if you're prot.Well, there's a flaw in the current system already, I can queue my team, and go watch tv or something else. Come back 5 minutes and I have 1"loss" game for the week. Repeat 9 more times and I have my 300 arena points--good enough for non-PR gear.

Or if I want to actively "lose" I can enter the arena then Right Click the Leave Arena from the mini-map icon. Repeat 9x.

[succulent]

Would doing something like arena-ing naked/in greys/in a cloth xmas/brewfest outfit while dual-wielding fish constitute losing on purpose, assuming you did actually drop totems & throw lightning bolts? Cause I can make a pretty good RP/funtimes gameplay case for doing that, even tho it would pretty much guarantee a lose. Actually, me queueing for arena (full stop) pretty much guarantees a lose >.<

Hmm....will fury wars in Wrath be able to dual-wield fishing poles?

I almost named my arena team For The Points, but a friend suggested I Shot the Shammy. Which doesn't really make any sense since I'm the shammy(ies) but I liked it too much to not use it.

[Drizzit]

what i want to try is get my servants out (3 per trinket) x 5 so 15 servants will be out... I think that would be really funny the other team can forget about tabbing to attack you. They are weak but just to see 15 of them :P

[Vyndree]

Win trading BAD

Dodging queues Dodging people? lol Nothing bad about it. Only frustration if you are the better team :P

Queue dodging is the same thing as "fixing" queues or predetermining matches. However, instead of predetermining the result of the match (win trading), you're predetermining what WON'T be the result of the match -- that you won't face a certain team because you feel that they will win.

It's the same thing and a similar severity -- it's just harder to catch. In essence, by queue dodging you are exploiting the matching system where, normally, you would take a point loss for leaving the queue once the game was matched. It's harder to verify for GM's, which is the only reason why you see people getting away with it.


Would doing something like arena-ing naked/in greys/in a cloth xmas/brewfest outfit while dual-wielding fish constitute losing on purpose, assuming you did actually drop totems & throw lightning bolts? Cause I can make a pretty good RP/funtimes gameplay case for doing that, even tho it would pretty much guarantee a lose. Actually, me queueing for arena (full stop) pretty much guarantees a lose >.<

Read below on "nonparticipation in arenas". You would, indeed, get banned for this sort of behavior -- in arenas or in battlegrounds. RP, sadly, does not belong in either battlegrounds or arenas unless you can RP while you are competing.



As promised, here are my blue quotes I was speaking of:


Queue dodging
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=7903651662&postId=79028013009&sid=1#139


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Q u o t e:

it's quite funny because usually the results are splits in these games, with one team gaining like maybe 20 rating and the other losing that much, but in the end it doesn't even matter because you don't lose a title. you don't lose points (well like 4 points a week, i'm sure every rational person will agree no one cares). the reason people organize games is because playing against 0 point teams with 32 point losses are not fun, espieically when they are bad and not a challenge, yet you lose 32 to a disconnect.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm going to address this part of your post specifically, because it touches on the heart of this issue.

You are correct - it can be crushing to lose a large number of points to a much lower rated team.

On the other hand, that is also the risk that comes with being on top. You lose more points to lower rated opponents. You might run into a highly skilled (but lower rated) team, or a decent counter comp that gives you a rough time. A large number of highly rated teams, (the majority, really) don't participate in organized scheduled 'queuing events' and are far more subject to those kinds of losses. They have to take those risks, and after getting to the heights, they have to scrape their way up the ratings ladder on low point wins.

The guys that do engage in organized 'queueing events' can achieve huge ratings, and crushing advantages toward titles at the top while also dodging some of those trials. This is why we have policies regarding win-trading. Is avoiding a fight really in the spirit of competition? If a lower rated team defeats a much higher rated team, do they not deserve the points they earned?

I can say that our intent is not that players should organize fights versus one another in the arena - even purely for the sake of facing the best opponents possible, though I can respect that. The arena is there for open competition, come what may.

NON-PARTICIPATION in arenas:
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=6441212865&postId=65510977434&sid=1#10


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Q u o t e:
so it is safe for my friends and I to /dance and /train our way to victory/failure?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I would advise against it, Tjourney, although non-participation mostly is applied to the Battlegrounds it may also serve to cover arena matches. If you wish to lose at the games you are playing you'll have to do it the old fashion way and be worse than your opponents.

And for completeness...
WIN TRADING
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=8557246793&sid=1

There have been a number of questions recently on what exactly falls into the category of Win Trading in Arena matches, and therefore what is and is not considered acceptable, so we would like to provide some clarification on what is considered fair gameplay in Arena matches.

The act of Win Trading may be described as the carrying out of premeditated plans to rise in arena rating by means of determining the outcome of a match prior or during its taking place. Win trading goes against the spirit of World of Warcraft and devalues the enjoyment of the game for all players who earn their victories by competing in a fair environment.

Win Trading includes players tampering with, or otherwise abusing the queue system as well as colluding to enter into an arena match with a specific opposing team. In the case of arena collusion, we consider any situation where the standard queue possibilities are bypassed through an abuse of mechanics to be a violation of policy. This includes, but is not limited to, the act of tampering with one’s team roster with exploitive intentions as well as setting up a situation that bypasses the randomness of our queue system where a team has a specific and predetermined opponent and repeatedly faces that team. Queuing against a known and affiliated opponent gives a competitive advantage over players who are entering the queue at random. We have measures in place to take action against any account found to be using these practices to advance their characters.

These described actions all fall in line with our fair use clause in the Terms of Service, which specifically states:


“Nonetheless, certain acts go beyond what is "fair" and are considered serious violations of these Terms of Use. Those acts include, but are not necessarily limited to, the following:


1. Using or exploiting errors in design, features which have not been documented, and/or "program bugs" to gain access that is otherwise not available, or to obtain a competitive advantage over other players;"


With that being said we are aware that players will often face the same team multiple times in succession due to a lack of similarly rated teams in the queue. Naturally this is not in violation, nor should players worry if ever they happen upon a situation such as this, but we will invoke action against any team when the team in question creates an agreement to exchange matches or tamper with the queuing system. Regardless of the content of these games, this presents a conflict of interest that we wish to deter in order to keep our arena system competitive.

In our continued efforts to support fair gameplay we have taken steps to ensure fair and enjoyable competition in the Arena by taking action on players who are found to be involved in Win Trading. Actions for violations may include not only penalties to the account but also confiscation of any gear that has been won if deemed necessary. Our Support staff will continue to enforce fair gameplay in Arena matches and all aspects of the game and will continue to address any new concerns to ensure that the playing field is kept fair.


I am rarely ever wrong when it comes to blues. ;)

[Tidomann]

Vyndrees facts crits you for overkill

[Basilikos]

I understand people not being up on every little thing a blue has posted recently. The other side of that, though, is that I hardly pay attention (shame on me) and I still knew what the blues were doing with Queue dodging. I might suggest that we all try to keep up a little more so things like this are more easily dealt with.

[Vyndree]

Vyndrees facts crits you for overkill

The thread wouldn't have gotten so long if I would've gotten off my lazy butt and linked the blue in the first place...

But I was tired yesterday.


...I feel like there is a library of blue quotes in my head. >.<

[Tidomann]

What can we say vyndree,

We all know your a gm in disguise, infiltrating the multiboxing community.. That you helped create.. :O

[Vyndree]

What can we say vyndree,

We all know your a gm in disguise, infiltrating the multiboxing community.. That you helped create.. :O

:O


*hides*



I wouldn't mind being a GM, but I'm not entirely sure the funds would support my lifestyle. :P I have been told a few times that I'd make a good lawyer, though... *ponders*

[succulent]

I wouldn't mind being a GM, but I'm not entirely sure the funds would support my lifestyle. :P I have been told a few times that I'd make a good lawyer, though... *ponders* Don't do it, you'd never have time to play WoW. Or so I hear, I have one of those easy-peasy software engineering jobs ;)