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  1. #21
    Rated Arena Member Kruschpakx4's Avatar
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    thats just my experience from the few times I went lfr, 80% of those people would simply never get access to epics in vanilla aside from the stuff you can grind (i.e. battleground factions)

    leave a random mc raid in vanilla after 2 bosses, gl finding another raid in the future
    Last edited by Kruschpakx4 : 05-04-2016 at 09:03 AM

  2. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kruschpakx4 View Post
    thats just my experience from the few times I went lfr, 80% of those people would simply never get access to epics in vanilla aside from the stuff you can grind (i.e. battleground factions)
    I've spent more time in LFR than non-LFR Raids since it was added to the game. I feel like this is a bit of an exaggeration. Depending on the group or even time of the week can greatly impact the quality of your LFR experience.

    The true failure can be seen during timewalking events where pugs wipe over and over on the ICC 5 mans, or End Times where the boss mechanics are flat out not forgiving.

  3. #23
    Member valkry's Avatar
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    I can tell you now, on Nostalrius you were able to see how many people were online with the /who function. I did a couple of 18 hour stints on it and constantly checked it, the pvp server always had over 10k people online, always.

    I had a blast, was so good going through questing areas WITH OTHER PEOPLE. The zones were PACKED!! STV was a warzone. I missed that about WoW. It took me back to when I first started playing. I would pay for a chance to play Vanilla again. It was slow, painful, frustrating, unfair to some classes, but it was epic, and the eventual rewards made you feel good.

    Nostalrius was good because it wasn't just claiming what the people wanted, it proved it!
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  4. #24

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    I'm hoping they at least restore the old world in some fashion and deal with the anachronistic mess that is the games plot post-caaclysm. I am glad they realized that leveling is grossly out of tune, sandwiched between the two extremes of "I want to explore the world and enjoy leveling up" and "got to go fast, have to hit the cap and start raiding".

  5. #25
    Multiboxologist MiRai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigfish View Post
    I'm hoping they at least restore the old world in some fashion and deal with the anachronistic mess that is the games plot post-caaclysm. I am glad they realized that leveling is grossly out of tune, sandwiched between the two extremes of "I want to explore the world and enjoy leveling up" and "got to go fast, have to hit the cap and start raiding".
    Yeah, I definitely love questing, but I sure do miss the old world. One of my issues with today's questing (in Azeroth) is all of the pop culture bullshit. Sure, back in the day we had quests that referenced Zelda/Link (out in Un'Goro) or quests like The Scrimshank Redemption in Tanaris (a play off of The Shawshank Redpemption), but nothing that I can remember which encompassed an entire zone. I'm just so tired of going into Westfall, only to be shuffled from hub to hub which are all 500 feet from each other while playing the CSI game, or going through Redridge Mountains and its heavily phased A-Team/Rambo-esque railroaded storyline. While it's all incredibly quick and easy, and rewards good XP, it's all a gigantic snoozefest to me.
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  6. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kruschpakx4 View Post
    i doubt that this will have success, remember that the best gear was only obtainable by 40 man raids or playing pvp 24/7 with pocket healers or account sharing. Ok oneshotting cloth as enhance with random windfury proccs was fun and the world was more dangerous because everyone had shit gear except the few in top raid guilds. Other than that i would prefer bc/wotlk servers anytime.

    without lfr/new honor system not a single casual (90% of todays wow population) is gonna play this
    Appealing to the lowest common denominator is probably a reason most original players left the game. I remember when getting gear was actually an accomplishment, compared to getting a full set in a week with WOD.
    EVE Online Get Ships. Train Skills.

  7. #27
    Member Ughmahedhurtz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EaTCarbS View Post
    Appealing to the lowest common denominator is probably a reason most original players left the game. I remember when getting gear was actually an accomplishment, compared to getting a full set in a week with WOD.
    A fair point. The most fun I had in-game was WotLK doing justice points in heroics on my 5x prot paladin team and getting those achievements. I had to grind the easy ones first to get the JPs so my gear was up to the point of being useful, which took me a few months, but I never felt like I was being gimmick-bombed by "we're too lazy to balance difficulty anymore so we're just gonna make everyone jump around like chimpanzees on a OD of snickers bars and red bull" crap that started in Cataclysm.
    Now playing: WoW (Garona)

  8. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by EaTCarbS View Post
    Appealing to the lowest common denominator is probably a reason most original players left the game. I remember when getting gear was actually an accomplishment, compared to getting a full set in a week with WOD.
    I don't think appealing to the commons was the issue. Heck, part of the reason WoW took off was because they dropped the "you must group to level" aspect that was common place in MMOs before that. Even Raidfinder is just entry level "you saw the boss of the expansion die, now quit or run the real raids". I'd blame the general decline on 2 aspects: long content droughts and the inability to pick up where you left off. Content droughts are pretty self explanatory. Going more than a year with no new content while paying 15$ a month is unacceptable. The big one for me though is that I can't pick up where I left off. Quit during cataclysm before downing Deathwing? Well you're not going to kill him at a level appropriate point now. Go level through the current content and grab your welfare epics from the catch up zone? Suddenly handling the last raid boss feels like a chore you forgot to do than the climax of an expansion.

    Want to just level a new character and see the world again? Well 1-60 got replaced with chronologically disjointed mess that makes no sense, and was pushed to make even less sense as you out level and out power zones halfway through them, requiring players to pace themselves and do grey quests if they want to see the world, heirloom their way through dungeons if they want to skip it, or pay 60$ for a level boost.

    The appeal of Vanilla is that convenience didn't kill conflict. I would say that's the number 1 lesson the current dev team needs to consider, although at this point I kind of wonder if they even have that much of an interest in the game. Really feels like they're developing the game because that's their job and they're not going to stop developing for their former flagship series, but no one has a clear vision of how to go forward. I mean we didn't have this problem until after wrath, when Outland and Northrend had been explored and we'd dealt with the remaining conflict of Warcraft 3.

  9. #29

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    well that's just the thing - by giving everyone easy and quick gear in addition to LFR/LFD, they've essentially killed the content. If you can see it all just by tagging along in LFR then why go beyond that? Why grind to have the absolute best gear when it becomes worse than the next content patches gear (which is essentially given to everyone free)? Why make friends and form a community when you can just queue from org/sw? Why grind pvp gear when stats are normalized? Why even go out and explore the world when everything is accessible from the comfort of the major cities?
    Last edited by EaTCarbS : 05-16-2016 at 03:29 PM
    EVE Online Get Ships. Train Skills.

  10. #30

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    I've been saying that for years @EaTCarbS.

    They've essentially shot themselves in the foot with all conveniences thrown into the game. There are basic psychological principles in gaming and sport and then a few more for MMOs.

    1. Challenge - doesn't really matter what the reward is here. It just has to be locked behind some effort.
    2. Anonymity kills community. LFR and LFD killed community. That is indisputable.
    3. Risk - nothing in this game is a gamble. Even time. You die you're right back in where you were before you died almost instantaneously. The rez timer is a joke.

    There was an interview someone posted on the WoW general forum a while back that Watcher had. About combat pacing. This interview told me all I need to know that their focus is entirely on the wrong thing. When asked about combat pacing in questing he commented that they felt the battles ended too early. That they should be a few seconds longer. Well, that's the problem right there. That line of thinking.

    Look at how popular Dark Souls is and ask yourself about pacing in that game. If you've mastered the game then nothing takes a great deal of time. The game can be done in an hour. But if you don't know the game it can take you weeks.

    That is what is missing in WoW. The gap between novice and master is so blurred right now that nothing feels like a challenge nor something to get better at. It just feels like a waste of time.

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