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  1. #11
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    Removed
    Last edited by Dranny817 : 03-24-2015 at 05:06 AM


  2. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dranny817 View Post
    He said anyone that uses 3rd party software to play eve is against the rules.

    An unmodified client as far as they are concerned is EvE as it is shipped (installed) any 3rd party used to play eve is not allowed and by all accounts if they have not changed the Eula then it never has, It is just being enforced more now.

    As he said it has always been in the Eula and it has not been changed.

    Unless I have heard something wrong or misunderstood it then you are no longer allowed to use Isboxer to multiboxing in Eve, unless it is for the basic actions which have been stated.

    Hopefully someone can say other wise, But for now it is alt-tabbing for me.
    Maybe we're watching different EVE Fanfest streams with different slides on them, because although that's how you might feel, he didn't say that. He did reiterate, again, that it is still explicitly allowed to use input multiplexing for specific actions in the client -- login, client settings, client window alignment. There's a slide at 4:24:18 with this. Why would he show this if he said what you say he said?

    Nor would he need to discuss the third-party gesture software behind touchscreen tablets moments later.

    Let's try to keep the conversation constructive, I think we've all heard enough hyperbole
    Last edited by Lax : 03-21-2015 at 06:08 PM
    Lax
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  3. #13
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    Last edited by Dranny817 : 03-24-2015 at 05:06 AM


  4. #14
    Member Ughmahedhurtz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dranny817 View Post
    http://www.twitch.tv/ccp/b/639617004

    Starts @ 04:21:55 for multiboxing.
    Excellent. Thanks for the link!

    AccountsPerPlayer.png

    "...the better we get at identifying patterns the more we can do to keep this to a limit." So they really do want to limit the number of accounts per person.

    That and the security guys repeating that they really, really like seeing this graph I take to mean multiboxing en toto was a primary target, regardless of claims that "multiboxing" is OK. Not a malicious target but it was still a primary motivation.

    I think a very interesting bit of this was that the price of PLEX (or put another way, price per billion ISK; covered several minutes later) did not materially change due to the multiplexing policy change. Since that doesn't correlate to the drop in accounts per player, that suggests this was a gameplay factor rather than an economy factor, which disagrees with some of the things mentioned by silly CSMs, pretty much confirming that those people have no more data than we players do.
    Now playing: WoW (Garona)

  5. #15

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    Yea, I decided to go ahead and condense my accounts officially.

    After watching that, I have come to the conclusion that CCP does not actually like multiboxers which goes a little against their game design.

    Regardless, instead of trying to fight an uphill battle, I'd rather just bow out from multiboxing Eve completely.

  6. #16

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    You people are ridiculous.



    And right after that:

    "You are not allowed to change how the game is played."

    They explicitly state "don't fucking use any macros." (I may have added the profanity.)

    I don't get what else you need. They explicitly state "clients are in foreground, or background."

    That kills round robin dead for EXACTLY the reasons I spelled out earlier.

    Then they say the following (quoted EXACTLY), in reference to "Roll-Over" AND "Round-Robin" literally EXACTLY by name in http://www.twitch.tv/ccp/b/639617004 @4:26:00:

    "Can these overlays be one pixel wide, so that they don't really effect the client, or that they are very small, or unimportant, and interestingly enough the answer to that is already in our EULA. It's pretty general tho the answer, it's like that [cue slide] You are NOT allowed to change how the game is played. So, you may not use your own, third party software to modify any content appearing within the game environment, and regardless of how you look at it, even if the interface is zero pixels, it's STILL NOT ALLOWED because it changes how the game is played, and that is an important aspect on how we look at this, because we didn't need to change our EULAs or anything; it has always been there."
    That is EXACTLY what they said. EXPLICITLY telling you Roll-over or Round-Robin are NOT allowed. You have your answer, stop whining about trying to get around the rules, and play the game by their rules.

    Super explicit translation of the above rules and others relevant for the Feeble-Minded:

    1. You may only send a SINGLE action to a SINGLE game client at one time.
    a. That client must have focus - it is either in the foreground or the background. Not both, and you MUST explicitly focus this client through some action.
    2. You may only send actions to clients in compliance with the above if it is in a manner consistent with the vanilla game.
    a. This means, for example, to activate a module YOU must CLICK the module manually, or YOU (not a triggered event) must press the button on the keyboard that corresponds to the INGAME shortcut (ie f1 activates highslot 1), or in the case of titan bridges etc etc, right click and activate through other INGAME methods.
    b. If you are not explicitly doing one of the above, you are IN VIOLATION.
    3. The only exception to any of these rules would be if the client itself is performing some action, as in the case of the autopilot warping, approaching, and jumping or docking across multiple systems with one button press and/or toggle.
    a. If you are modifying the game client in any way not authorized by CCP (ie downloading sanctioned patches to update the software version) you are IN VIOLATION.
    b. Being in violation of subsection (a) of this rule will result in a zero-warning permanent ban of all accounts accessed and/or "owned" by the user.

    Also, as a side note, in case anyone missed it (several have posted here about this) - if you are caught breaking the EULA on ANY of your accounts, punitive action will be taken against ALL of your accounts. It doesn't matter if you were only multiplexing on 3 alts - all 10 of your accounts will be banned for just those 3.

    If you can't play by the rules, then don't play anymore. This is the Eve section of the forums, and there are plenty of other forum sections where you can go to multibox. I don't go to the WoW section and post about how I once played WoW and found it incredibly awful because of design decisions by the dev team over there (laughably awful pvp, a set amount of exhaustible content, and prior to these gold token things I'm hearing about, no way to multibox without shelling out tons of cash). None of us who actually play the game want to hear about you ranting and raving about how you're gonna sue CCP, or how much you hate the game. We're all people here who just want to have fun playing the games we enjoy in the manner we enjoy.

  7. #17

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    Just like Lax and myself have pointed out over and over, play the game without messing with the inputs. A dashboard setup is a-ok.

  8. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by LordsServant View Post
    Just like Lax and myself have pointed out over and over, play the game without messing with the inputs. A dashboard setup is a-ok.
    TLDR version ty

  9. #19

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    (Long post incoming, bringing over some stuff from the EVE Forums for Lax and other experts benefit).

    Response to Lucas during the Round-Table
    [QUOTE]ShadowandLight wrote:
    did they offer any clarification on what constitutes an "advantage"? How fast or slow must I use my multiple clients to not be considered "cheating"?

    That is really my main question, it seems to come down to some vague definition of an unfair advantage. So we need specifics, how fast am i allowed to click buttons on other clients before I am considered breaking some nondescript rule?
    Lucas Kell wrote:There was a vague reference to 20% above the average but I believe that was just spitballing rather than a real figure.
    https://forums.eveonline.com/default...60#post5599860

    Multiboxing "too well" = Botting = account banning / assets seized
    Lucas Kell wrote: ... they confirmed that the punishment for multiplexing falls under botting, not EULA violation (lose accounts and assets), that round robin and video fx are against the rules if used for an advantage (though how much of an advantage is an advantage is questionable) that they have no client side detection (and instead rely on data analysis over period of months) and that players can be under investigation for months before action is taken.


    All in all I'm not at all satisfied that they don't hit too many false positives, banning manual multiboxers. What worse is that in the presentation they stated that they use banned players and confirmed false positives to build profiles to aid in detection, so when someone is falsely banned and they refuse to believe that the player was in fact not using tools, they are using data from incorrectly banned players to help build violation profiles.
    https://forums.eveonline.com/default...92#post5599692

    VFX = Modified Client?

    CCP seems to be saying that a "modified" eve client is using VFX overlays INSIDE an EVE Window. (I am having to take some liberties here, because they arent being specific).

    EMC0Wv3.png

    So, if that is correct, you cannot in their mind make dxnothing dashboards INSIDE a game client but you MIGHT be allowed to make a dxnothing window dashboard, since its OUTSIDE the game client.

    Yz8rRKs.png
    This was presented as "Client Modification" which if this was sitting on a dxnothing window SEEMS to be against what they declare as allowed. If they are stating that THIS is client modification, then everything VFX does falls into that category.

    Rollover / Round-Robin Response

    "Please see the EULA"

    fMJFlw0.png

    CCP Random said refer to the EULA, which states you cannot modify any content appearing within the game.

    He SEEMS to imply that if you use VFX or Rollovers you are modify content IN the game. Now, does this mean I can use VFX OR rollovers if they are OUTSIDE the game inside a dxnothing window? You cant say one is allowed and the other isnt, because they both per CCP Random SEEM to fall inside this vague definition of what "modifies the content appearing within the Game Environment" . If Rollover's OUTSIDE of the client inside a dxnothing window = "modfying" then certainly every single VFX box you make does too.

    Lets say CCP then states you CANNOT use rollover EVEN INSIDE a dxnothing window. Ok. Can I use Rollover and VFX outside the client inside a dxnothing window? Lax and Lordservant seem to say yes, NosyGamer (who they brought on to talk about RMTing and is pretty anti ISBoxer usage) also seems to say yes, but going by this slide CCP Random seems to say no.

    Key Re-Mapping?

    Are we allowed to make key remaps? Can I remap F1 on Client #2 to F2 instead? If I get a Xkey 80 and assign each button, I could easily use bombers almost as effeicently as using Rollover or Input Duplication... Is this allowed? Its certainty not a macro, just a key remap? How would CCP know the difference though? I can hit 16 + buttons in a second using my fingers, what if i just took my fist and smashed all the keys? Would I just be banned "just because"?

    http://i.imgur.com/sY0ZhhR.png

    CCP - I KNOW you read these forums.

    THERE IS A SIMPLE ANSWER TO ALL OF THIS.

    If you dont want to name features directly then draw a line

    " you cannot send more then x commands to your clients in x seconds."

    Simple, easy to follow, no confusion. Something like that would be completely feature agnostic.

    This current vagueness is complete garbage.
    Last edited by shadowandlight : 03-22-2015 at 02:02 AM

  10. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dranny817 View Post
    why would you not be allowed to play in windows mode ? Is that not part of the settings within the game ?
    Well when you run in windowed mode you're using a third part program (windows mac whatever) to modify how the game appears in client. There's also a variety of tweaks you can to do to windows that changes the way the game is played. Hell once could say running in windowed mode changes how the game is played when compared to fullscreen. Windows based games can all be changed to windowed mode even the ones that don't have it as an option. ALT+enter will window mode about anything. So I guess one could argue that since there's an option it's allowed.

    What I'm saying is their logic or at least the wording really sucks.


    Quote Originally Posted by Dranny817 View Post
    He said anyone that uses 3rd party software to play eve is against the rules.

    An unmodified client as far as they are concerned is EvE as it is shipped (installed) any 3rd party used to play eve is not allowed and by all accounts if they have not changed the Eula then it never has, It is just being enforced more now.

    As he said it has always been in the Eula and it has not been changed.

    Unless I have heard something wrong or misunderstood it then you are no longer allowed to use Isboxer to multiboxing in Eve, unless it is for the basic actions which have been stated.

    Hopefully someone can say other wise, But for now it is alt-tabbing for me.
    That's what I'm talking about. Operating systems are third party programs. Video card drivers are third party programs. The mouse driver is a third party program. All of which can effect how the game is displayed and how it is played. All of those are technically somehow banned now. Oh I wonder if you change windows so you don't have to hit alt+tab to change windows if that would be bannable too?

    If nothing else that makes catalyst control panel and the nvidia geforce experience both bannable. Why? Well in those programs you can change how the card renders graphics and as such change how in game content appears.
    Last edited by Tool of Society : 03-22-2015 at 02:34 AM

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