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  1. #31

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    Both of you calm down. We gain nothing from bickering like children amongst ourselves.
    Wanna earn your customer's respect? Go to bat for them. Defend them and what they do. Don't roll over on command, and don't punish them for being human beings. And no, this ain't aimed at CCP.

    Keep pretending you care about EVE ISBoxers and not just their money, Lax.

    Come hang out with us in the channel "Isboxers Lounge" and discuss fittings, doctrines, or just shoot the breeze. Unlike the forums, we won't ban you for what you say. IGN: "AayJay Crendraven" and "Nolak Ataru".

  2. #32

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    So you used to use nightmares, but use cost as a point against ishtars....

    wat
    EVE Online Get Ships. Train Skills.

  3. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by EaTCarbS View Post
    So you used to use nightmares, but use cost as a point against ishtars....

    wat
    It is kind of warranted though. Pre-broadcast nerf, Nightmares were THE boat to use. Superior tracking/alpha, great buffer, they were ideal for a Vanguard multiboxer and they warranted the price. Now however, in my opinion at least, drone assist is the solution. Domi vs Ishtar, I've only EFT'd it, but armor Domi looks to be a great contender for 'new hot shit' for Vanguards, and it costs less than an Ishtar, has more buffer, has almost equal tracking, with really the only downside being warp/align speed.

    Having now run ~20 Vanguard sites, I've noticed that DPS is not important. Application is WAY more important. I have no doubts that heavy drones would work with the correct setup. However, because the travel time is greater than 0s, and there are 25+ frigates per site, AND they don't orbit nearly as tightly as sleeper frigates, your heavies are going to be MWD'ing all over the place and taking up time. In sleeper sites, Ogres were amazing, as they rarely had to MWD as the frigates were typically within optimal.

    Because there are so many low EHP targets, it in my opinion makes more sense to go sentries, even if half of them are missing due to transversal. I end up killing a frigate every ~12 seconds(sentry lock + 2 salvo) and now with the 4 web Loki, I immediately double web the second target and it also dies in ~12 seconds.

    Now I want to try armor Domis, as the tracking goes from ~0.075 on my rattlesnakes to something like 0.103 or so. If it means occasionally I one-shot a frigate, that'll speed up clear times. With my skills it is a slight paper DPS drop, but application should go up.

    Going to keep running with the Rattlesnakes for a little while longer, I want to get comfortable with all the sites and it is nice having ~180k EHP of buffer

  4. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by gomeler View Post
    It is kind of warranted though. Pre-broadcast nerf, Nightmares were THE boat to use. Superior tracking/alpha, great buffer, they were ideal for a Vanguard multiboxer and they warranted the price. Now however, in my opinion at least, drone assist is the solution. Domi vs Ishtar, I've only EFT'd it, but armor Domi looks to be a great contender for 'new hot shit' for Vanguards, and it costs less than an Ishtar, has more buffer, has almost equal tracking, with really the only downside being warp/align speed.

    Having now run ~20 Vanguard sites, I've noticed that DPS is not important. Application is WAY more important. I have no doubts that heavy drones would work with the correct setup. However, because the travel time is greater than 0s, and there are 25+ frigates per site, AND they don't orbit nearly as tightly as sleeper frigates, your heavies are going to be MWD'ing all over the place and taking up time. In sleeper sites, Ogres were amazing, as they rarely had to MWD as the frigates were typically within optimal.

    Because there are so many low EHP targets, it in my opinion makes more sense to go sentries, even if half of them are missing due to transversal. I end up killing a frigate every ~12 seconds(sentry lock + 2 salvo) and now with the 4 web Loki, I immediately double web the second target and it also dies in ~12 seconds.

    Now I want to try armor Domis, as the tracking goes from ~0.075 on my rattlesnakes to something like 0.103 or so. If it means occasionally I one-shot a frigate, that'll speed up clear times. With my skills it is a slight paper DPS drop, but application should go up.

    Going to keep running with the Rattlesnakes for a little while longer, I want to get comfortable with all the sites and it is nice having ~180k EHP of buffer
    7400m/s x 12s = ~76km or so.

    If application is the #1 thing in sites, then you're gonna want heavies. The heavies don't require webs to hit anything, and will be oneshotting things. If you're taking 12s to kill frigs, the heavies will easily beat that 2:1.

    -You don't have to web anything (less attention paid, just trigger the drones with w.e)
    -You can use a marauder to trigger, being ecm-proof you never get jammed for even the slightest loss of efficiency
    -Allows you to pre-align next site for faster completion time
    -No "aw fuck I got bumped out of range of mah sentries"
    -Looks cooler

    If Nightmares were THE thing to use back then, then I'm asserting Ishtars/VNIs might be THE thing to use now, if what everyone in here is saying is true.

    [Vexor Navy Issue, incursions]
    1600mm Reinforced Steel Plates II
    Corpum A-Type Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
    Corpii A-Type Adaptive Nano Plating
    Imperial Navy Drone Damage Amplifier
    Imperial Navy Drone Damage Amplifier
    Imperial Navy Drone Damage Amplifier


    Federation Navy Drone Navigation Computer
    Federation Navy Drone Navigation Computer
    Federation Navy Drone Navigation Computer
    Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link, Tracking Speed Script


    Black Eagle Drone Link Augmentor
    Black Eagle Drone Link Augmentor
    Black Eagle Drone Link Augmentor
    [empty high slot]


    Medium Trimark Armor Pump II
    Medium Trimark Armor Pump II
    Medium Anti-Explosive Pump II


    'Augmented' Berserker x5

    +ehp
    + much lower sig
    -drone speed
    -drone tracking
    +drone range (not that it really matters, 1km)

  5. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by LordsServant View Post
    Black Eagle Drone Link Augmentor
    Black Eagle Drone Link Augmentor
    Black Eagle Drone Link Augmentor
    gotta get that extra 2km control range for 160x the cost. It will really make a difference. /s
    EVE Online Get Ships. Train Skills.

  6. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by EaTCarbS View Post
    So you used to use nightmares, but use cost as a point against ishtars....

    wat
    My nightmares were under 1.5b each fully fitted with cost of hull. A proper Ishtar has an EANM that is about 1b on it's own. Unfortunately that EANM is about the only way to keep up the tank without killing the dps I've already played around heavily with various ishtars, gilas and VNIs in EFT. The original plan was to go VNI or gila and then move to Ishtars. I ended up going domi because my DPS were basically already pretrained for it. All I had to do was train gallente BS on 4 of them. Domis are dirt cheap and with that large buffer I can assign drones quickly without taking breaks to setup reps. Although I try to gain aggro on the paladin first so I can just basically AFK reps for the first wave. I consider my domis disposable but the ishtars wouldn't be. When you end up moving around a lot due to rage pops it's hard to resist the urge to AP some of them. Right now I can AP the domis with 200k ehp and laugh if someone tries to gank one. Cause I can easily replace it.

    I'm not even arguing against Ishtars or that setup in general. I'm just trying to answer his question why I went sentry for now.

    I think once you get the skills and the bling the ishtar setup could be the new NM setup.

    The buffer on snakes looks really nice. You can get geckos moving at a quick pace too if you want. Once again snakes were something I looked at but low skills kept me from using them



    I have never left a sentry behind despite having run this setup for over a month (I click through spamming shift+R for drone retrieval). I have lost a few to NPCs though. The gila pilot has lost quite a few to NPCs. I know that my tests with some snakes the gecko kept getting blapped quite a bit. So I'm curious how well the heavies would last with the ishtars.

    Drone trigger is super easy for me which is why I use the guns on my domis to push DPS close to 1100 each. Even without webs I've killed augas with pure turrets while picking off the frigates with the drones.

    Sentries actually hit better then my old tachmares and about the same as the pulsemare version.

    I can't argue against the looks cooler aspect though. There's no doubt the domi setup is pure ugly.

  7. #37

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    we need some hard numbers to settle this

    run a few sites and plug in your combat log into here

    http://evelog.mikk36.eu/

    look in (windows vista - 7 - 8)

    C:\Users\user \Documents\EVE\logs\Gamelogs

  8. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by EaTCarbS View Post
    gotta get that extra 2km control range for 160x the cost. It will really make a difference. /s
    They were for fitting(cpu). The VNI I think I just reflex fit them because I was anticipating CPU issues. Spent a lot less time on VNI setup.

    @Shadow - I don't run incursions, as gomeler pointed out - wormholes actually make more isk. I also don't like being forced to choose between pvp and pve. If I wanted to dedicate fully to PVE, I'd probably go run fully escalated sites in a c5/c6 with capitals.

    I'm not saying I'm 100% right with this incursion stuff, but from what people are saying, and from what I know of game mechanics, and from the few times I've bothered to run incursions out of curiosity, I figure the idea might be right.

    If someone else wants to test it (it sounds like a few people might have skills for it), even with the VNIs, I imagine it shouldn't be too hard. You don't need a-type eanms, I'm just figuring for arguments sake we're talking about 98% risk free bearing, so blinging it up is nbd.

    As far as moving stuff, its not hard to AP everything to the next focus. Just load up all the supershiny shit into a covert hauler and burn that over yourself before you start running. 20-30 jumps is super fast in a covops hauler.

  9. #39

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    The covert hauler would then have to turn around back the 20 jumps to grab it's ship and then another 20 back :P

    I stick to MWD orcas for that frankly. 10s align 338k ehp and 400 m/s burn to gate if someone actually bumps me. Bonus points that the orca can carry a lot of ore for you too.


    Quote Originally Posted by shadowandlight View Post
    we need some hard numbers to settle this

    run a few sites and plug in your combat log into here

    http://evelog.mikk36.eu/

    look in (windows vista - 7 - 8)

    C:\Users\user \Documents\EVE\logs\Gamelogs
    That is absolutely amazing thank you. I've been comparing and the gardes do indeed hit at a better rate than the NMs with pulse. The pulsemares had 9 TPs and 9 webs too :P


    I definitely would rather be doing c5/6
    Last edited by Tool of Society : 02-04-2015 at 05:34 AM

  10. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tool of Society View Post
    That is absolutely amazing thank you. I've been comparing and the gardes do indeed hit at a better rate than the NMs with pulse. The pulsemares had 9 TPs and 9 webs too :P
    I definitely would rather be doing c5/6
    Then you gotta worry about fueling the tower, and keeping scouts on exits, etc.
    Wanna earn your customer's respect? Go to bat for them. Defend them and what they do. Don't roll over on command, and don't punish them for being human beings. And no, this ain't aimed at CCP.

    Keep pretending you care about EVE ISBoxers and not just their money, Lax.

    Come hang out with us in the channel "Isboxers Lounge" and discuss fittings, doctrines, or just shoot the breeze. Unlike the forums, we won't ban you for what you say. IGN: "AayJay Crendraven" and "Nolak Ataru".

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