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  1. #1

    Question A new software solution needs your help!

    I'm in the process of writing up a new multiboxing software solution, and I need the community's help. I've laid the groundwork for the nitty gritty, simple cloning. I have some feature ideas of my own, and now I want to hear from real multiboxers, the suggestions they'd want to give if given the opportunity to really affect change when it comes with a piece of software. Requests/ideas for features that are either not to one's liking or aren't offered in other software solutions aimed at multiboxing.

    I also am looking for people who may want to seriously be involved in the creative process by way of becoming a tester, if so, I await your messages in my forum inbox. (Please include some reasoning as to why you'd want to test, your experience with multiboxing, and testing software.)

    So here's the thread where you can post your thoughts, an opportunity to attempt to progress a multiboxing solution to best fit the needs of you and people like you.

    SUGGESTIONS SO FAR:


    • Supernova09
    • Manage your CPUs and GPUs (Dev inquiry: Clock rates, core affinities, fan speeds?)
    • Program your input devices (Dev inquiry: polling rates, macros, keymaps?)
    • Use different game settings, such as graphics levels, per window - Virtualized Config files
    • Organize your game windows into a custom layout, with instant re-arrangement when switching windows.
    • Clone your mouse clicks and keystrokes to some or all windows, exactly as performed, including a visible mouse cursor
    • Ability to build my own custom widgets via an overlaid UI (Dev inquiry: Elaborate on the possible functions of these widgets.)
    • Ability to Map your keys for multiboxing with a highly configurable mapping system, not only for passing keystrokes but also for adjusting widgets, switching windows, modifying other mappings
    • Full support for many games and keep adding support for new games.
    • Sandboxing - ability to run multiple copies of games on the same system (Dev inquiry: What games specifically are you unable to run more than one copy of on the same system?)
    • In game macro support (especially for automated FTL)
    • Ualaa
    • White/black list of keys.
    • Round robin/cascading of input actions.
    • Networked support (Dev note: This is one of my main focuses, as well as keeping communications between clients over the wire encrypted for some protection against MITM. Trusting a piece of software to essentially log your keys, then broadcast them over your LAN. I want to do my best to ensure that using the software doesn't open up a vector of attack on your privacy. My thought was encrypting via AES using a shared key that must be input on all of your clients.)
    • Character "role grouping".
    • Mouse broadcast "regions".
    • Action target groups.
    • Video feeds.
    • Ughmahedhurtz
    • Accurate mouse scaling (Dev note: I had this idea myself, of how I would scale a mouse to conform to different resolutions)
    • Client focus/cursor swap (Dev inquiry: Are you meaning, to control a single selected remote PC's inputs from another, or to switch master to the PC currently receiving actual hardware input?)
    • Sub-client window surface broadcast (Dev inquiry: The client software itself, or the game window? Could you elaborate?)
    • Dynamic formation of hotkeys (Dev inquiry: Could to clarify what you had in mind a bit further?)
    • Verbose debug output.
    • Settings import/export and profiles.
    Last edited by HydraCoder : 04-27-2012 at 07:33 PM Reason: Developer inquiries to current suggestions

  2. #2

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    Not looking to be negative, but we tend to get these topics every so often and honestly there's very little that people are looking for.

    The real limitations pretty much stem from non-Windows multiboxing programs. Judging by the threads I've seen over the years, programs for Macs are pretty limited in their functionality leading people to go without all the bells and whistles or running BootCamp so they can use ISBoxer or something else with the features they want.

    I'm not trying to discourage you, there's always room for more options. I just think people are going to be hard pressed to come up with ideas that aren't already part of currently available programs.
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  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by Khatovar View Post
    ...ideas that aren't already part of currently available programs.
    *paid* programs.

  4. #4

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    And free programs such as HotKeyNet...
    Jafula.
    Jamba - Jafula's Awesome Multi Boxer Assistant. An addon for YOU.

  5. #5

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    Like Khat said, we get these threads every so often. They come and go. I'm not trying to be negative...

    Since you asked, here is what I'm going to need from you & your software:
    • Manage your CPUs and GPUs (video cards)
    • Program your input devices
    • Use different game settings, such as graphics levels, per window - Virtualized Config files
    • Organize your game windows into a custom layout, with instant re-arrangement when switching windows.
    • Clone your mouse clicks and keystrokes to some or all windows, exactly as performed, including a visible mouse cursor
    • Ability to build my own custom widgets via an overlaid UI
    • Ability to Map your keys for multiboxing with a highly configurable mapping system, not only for passing keystrokes but also for adjusting widgets, switching windows, modifying other mappings
    • Full support for many games and keep adding support for new games.
    • Sandboxing - ability to run multiple copies of games on the same system
    • In game macro support (especially for automated FTL)
    I'm going to need all of this in a nice, small, easy to use package with wizards built in for various games to walk me through the process. I'm going to need tutorial videos for the advanced functions with in game demonstrations to show me the ins and outs of various features. I'm going to need a large community that is using your software that I can bounce ideas and troubleshooting off of. I'm going to need you to be available 7 days a week and around 20 hours a day in (preferably) IRC channel (or other live chat system) for live tech support or just to shoot the shit with you. I'm going to need you to constantly be working on your software to provide new features and functions I haven't even though of yet. I need you to spend time analyzing my crash logs and I need you to go buy a laptop with a crazy video card setup and get your software to work with it just because I asked why your product wouldn't work for my new laptop that has a crazy video card setup.

    That should be enough to get you started. I look forward to your first build.

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by Svpernova09 View Post
    Like Khat said, we get these threads every so often. They come and go. I'm not trying to be negative...

    Since you asked, here is what I'm going to need from you & your software:
    • Manage your CPUs and GPUs (video cards)
    • Program your input devices
    • Use different game settings, such as graphics levels, per window - Virtualized Config files
    • Organize your game windows into a custom layout, with instant re-arrangement when switching windows.
    • Clone your mouse clicks and keystrokes to some or all windows, exactly as performed, including a visible mouse cursor
    • Ability to build my own custom widgets via an overlaid UI
    • Ability to Map your keys for multiboxing with a highly configurable mapping system, not only for passing keystrokes but also for adjusting widgets, switching windows, modifying other mappings
    • Full support for many games and keep adding support for new games.
    • Sandboxing - ability to run multiple copies of games on the same system
    • In game macro support (especially for automated FTL)
    I'm going to need all of this in a nice, small, easy to use package with wizards built in for various games to walk me through the process. I'm going to need tutorial videos for the advanced functions with in game demonstrations to show me the ins and outs of various features. I'm going to need a large community that is using your software that I can bounce ideas and troubleshooting off of. I'm going to need you to be available 7 days a week and around 20 hours a day in (preferably) IRC channel (or other live chat system) for live tech support or just to shoot the shit with you. I'm going to need you to constantly be working on your software to provide new features and functions I haven't even though of yet. I need you to spend time analyzing my crash logs and I need you to go buy a laptop with a crazy video card setup and get your software to work with it just because I asked why your product wouldn't work for my new laptop that has a crazy video card setup.

    That should be enough to get you started. I look forward to your first build.

    And all this for the big price off £0.000000000

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by ebony View Post
    And all this for the big price off £0.000000000
    The only software I'm aware of that does everything on Svper's list is InnerSpace/ISBoxer.
    That is not a free software.




    I cannot really see myself switching from IS Boxer to another product...
    Unless it offered something amazing, which I could not get from ISBoxer.

    That said...

    I would consider this to the basic level:
    - Key replication, between windows.
    - Ability to white list or black list given keys.
    - Toggle-able mouse broadcasting, between windows.
    - Ability to display each window, picture in picture.
    - Ability to swap a slave window, with the main window, so the newly focused window is large and the previous window is a small picture-in-picture window.
    - Round-robin support, the ability to have Window A then Window B, then Window C do an action, one after the other.
    - Networking between computers, so someone with three systems instead of one powerful system can box across their network.
    Keyclone (www.solidice.com/keyclone) offers these features, and was (to my knowledge) the first widely used boxing program.
    Rob gives excellent support, via email on his site, or via phone (listed on his site); he used to be more active on dual-boxing, but still lurks about.



    Game Commander Pro, was a software (that is still around www.gamecommanderpro.com) developed by a boxer for personal use.
    And then offered to the community as a boxing option.

    It offered extensive documention, far exceeding that of any other software.

    I remember it has groups.
    Where you could have a toon act one way, while in the healer group.
    And differently while within the DPS group.
    Presumably, by setting a castsequence for each group.
    You could toggle/move a character from one group to another, as part of your play.

    I haven't used GCP, so don't really know what it can and cannot do.
    But do remember that, as a feature that was mentioned.

    Beyond the initial offering, the authors have not been on this site, or at least don't post as a software developer.




    Hot Key Net (www.hotkeynet.com) is a free boxing software, which is script based.

    Again, I don't really know too much of this software, but Freddie gives good support for it.
    I'd rather have an interface, than write my own scripts...
    And it seems to be the next strongest software to IS Boxer, offering more than other options.




    Pwnboxer is likely the most advertised boxing option (www.pwnboxer.com); when someone is referred, the referring party makes cash.
    Tim gives a decent level of support for his program on his site (www.multiboxing.com).

    This, like IS Boxer and Game Commander Pro, is a subscription based product.
    He advertises a year of support/updates, rather than calling it a subscription model.




    IS Boxer is probably the top software option on the market.
    So, if you were to look for features offered, this would be a great place to start with.

    IS Boxer is a subscription based model, with extended subscription time when you refer someone.

    Lax's level of support is phenomenal.
    He is active here, on his site (www.isboxer.com), and on the IRC on the isboxer site.

    I switched to IS Boxer (from Keyclone) for:
    a) Instant swap from one window to another
    b) Automatic (wizard generated, via an addon) FTL assist.
    c) Real time mouse broadcasting.

    Having played with the software, I personally consider several features essential and would not even consider something that did not include:
    - Repeater Regions (an area of the screen, where mouse broadcasting to the desired target(s) is enabled while the mouse is in the area).
    - Action Target Groups (so I can assign targets based on whatever criteria I desire).
    - Virtualization of the Configuration File (so I can have variable settings from one client to another).
    - A mapped key system for Keybinds (can send a keybind to Current Window, Other Windows, an Action Target Group), Macros (stored within the software, for easy editing or assigning to characters/teams), Pop Up Text Notifications, Adding/Removing toons from ATG's, activating/deactivating/toggling one mapped key on and another off (toggle how something works in real time), Steps (where something happens on Input 1, something else on input 2, etc).
    - Probably others, but that's what stands out off of the top of my head.

    I don't really take advantage of Click Bars that much...
    They are graphical objects which when clicked in game, are the equivalent of activating a mapped key.
    You can configure the graphic to change, so it can act like a toggle with a graphical representation of the option you have selected.

    I'm using a Picture-in-picture layout, but if you use a "Stacked" window layout.
    You can use Video Feeds, to view what the other windows see...
    To track combo points or whatever you via a visual reference of your other toon...
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    My Guide to IS Boxer http://www.dual-boxing.com/showthread.php?t=26231 (somewhat dated).
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  8. #8

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    Oh come on guys

    Welcome to the site, HydraCoder! We do welcome discussion on any legitimate new multiboxing tools, including the one you are developing -- don't let them get you down. We just get this exact thread many times, and the developer who was so excited at the start seems to disappear and nothing is released or there is just no reason to use it over existing free products like HotkeyNet or even Octopus (which I believe is no longer in development). So you have to understand the skepticism of the mods and of the community when we get another thread like this.

    If this is something you want to work on, then absolutely: do it! If nothing else, you will might learn something new and, if you see it through, hopefully get the features you want out of it as well. And it's always fun to share something you made with others. What I would recommend, personally, is to get something working that solves the problem for you, and then offer it to other people who want the same problem solved, and go from there by adding on to your project. I've done it myself with free projects, like when I wrote EQWatcher for parsing EverQuest logs to make audio cues (text to speech for example) in real-time -- that feature set is coming to ISBoxer by the way -- and when I originally made EQPlayNice for freeing up some CPU/GPU when playing EQ1 it was free as well. Before that I wrote things (both free and paid) for text-based MUDs like MajorMUD and Tele-Arena. We might expect more out of this thread if you had a screenshot and/or a demo, or even source code (e.g. a google code project, sourceforge project, etc would go much further than a personal project without source code).

    Anyway, the main problem you will run into getting started in this way is that people want a package that already works. Your solution has to do something unique, or do it in an easier way, in order for people to want to use it over the other free solutions that already work. You will also have to accept that your solution will only actually work for certain games. ISBoxer works for games that other solutions do not work for, because it is different and doesn't just send a message to the window to clone your keystrokes. Anyone can do that. (Actually I think that's why we get these threads )

    What kind of features people look for in multiboxing are already pretty well established and you can find them by looking around at the existing solutions. You will have a really hard time getting new ideas from people, because they really have no idea what they want. What you need to find out is what people suck at doing. What is hard about multiboxing? That's the problem you need to solve with your own system. (And solve it within the EULA/ToS of the games you can support.)

    I say all of this sincerely, hopefully I didn't come across as condescending. Best of luck
    Lax
    Author of ISBoxer
    Video: ISBoxer Quick Start

  9. #9

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    Good guy Lax.

    Sees a possible competitor, posts constructive advice.
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  10. #10
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    Lots of programs work fine on single PCs. What would be nice to see is something as configurable as ISBoxer but with better support for controlling clients across multiple PCs. Things like:

    * accurate scaling of mouse broadcasting across PCs
    * client focus and cursor-swap to the active client regardless of which PC it was on (integrated KM support a la InputDirector?)
    * sub-client window surfaces broadcast to the master across the LAN

    Other things:
    * dynamic formation hotkey support
    * good debug output so we can see exactly what the software thinks it is sending to each client
    * good import/export of configurations

    I think the biggest problem you'll have as a new entrant into this space is that we, as multiboxers and as an experienced multiboxing community, have very high expectations for stability, features and usability. Good luck!
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