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  1. #11

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    Thanks a lot for all of the feedback, peoples. I guess I can't say that I'm not trying to predatorily compete with the big-time software solutions, but I don't feel as though I'd want to charge for my software (regardless of if I might benefit financially from it, I like free stuff, and I'd feel hypocritical to sell it), while still having the features that boxers want.

    What I'm doing, essentially, is trying to challenge myself to put out a quality piece of software. But since I really am not as hardcore into multi-boxing as a lot of other people are, I honestly haven't really felt the need to have more than a simple cloning of keys across windows and physical machines (over a network).

    I know that if I were to release such, it'd probably never get used, and it honestly isn't a challenge for me to write (The project is currently at the very alpha stage of cloning across windows/machines, without many options to boot, after an admittedly small time put toward it). So I wanted to gain some idea of inspiration to direct my effort from the community, and it looks like I got more than I could have hoped for. Looks like I have my hands full, and I'm excited for it.

    I could put out a release of what I have, but honestly, it's not in a state in which I'd feel satisfied to do so. The UI isn't fleshed out as much as I'd like, and I haven't put it through the paces yet to make sure it doesn't get any hard lockups and the like.

    Sorry that if I am "hey I'm gonna make a multiboxer" #2592394, but I'm sure that I won't be dropping off of the face of the earth just yet. This is also an opportunity to gain experience to further my career goals, my goal has been to turn a light hobby into a job position. (Granted, I did say this would be free, and I mean that.)

    So again, thank you all so much for your suggestions, I appreciate your time and the thought you put into your replies. Despite if you thought to discourage me, it's only fed my creative juices and got my mind churning on the intricate systems that I'd have to weave. Brain candy for me!

    (Oh, and I forgot to mention, I purchased keyclone a few years back, and have talked to Rob a few times myself, he's a great guy, and my aim is not to put these people out of business! This is a personal venture to advance my knowledge and experience.)

    EDIT: There was so much information in the replies, I just wanted to give a tip of the hat to Svpernova09 for his reply. It made me smile. I'll see what I can do!

    Also, I'm going to be sending some messages to the people who replied with a list of suggestions to see if I could get some elaboration on some of them. They sound interesting, but the short descriptions I don't think will aid me much in the way of fleshing some of them out.
    Last edited by HydraCoder : 04-27-2012 at 07:02 PM

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by HydraCoder View Post
    Manage your CPUs and GPUs (Dev inquiry: Clock rates, core affinities, fan speeds?)
    Which CPU runs which game?
    Can you assign a specific graphics card to some clients, and have the others run on a different card?

    Quote Originally Posted by HydraCoder View Post
    Program your input devices (Dev inquiry: polling rates, macros, keymaps?)
    Can you use fancy mouse and map/bind it to use the extra buttons?
    Will you be able to use the 18 extra keys on a G15 Keyboard?

    Quote Originally Posted by HydraCoder View Post
    Ability to build my own custom widgets via an overlaid UI (Dev inquiry: Elaborate on the possible functions of these widgets.)
    This is essentially the Click Bars, within IS Boxer.
    You can import an image (I believe in .png format) or use text; clicking on the graphic/text in game, is the same as using the hotkey to activate the mapped key.

    Quote Originally Posted by HydraCoder View Post
    Sandboxing - ability to run multiple copies of games on the same system (Dev inquiry: What games specifically are you unable to run more than one copy of on the same system?)
    Numerous games will not run boxed, unless they are the active window; the majority of the boxing options cannot run a large amount of games out there.
    Everquest and Lord of the Rings Online, require a window to be in focus for you to use the mouse in that window.
    Diablo III won't (without Sandboxing) allow more than one instance of the game to be run on the same system.
    There are probably others like this.

    IS Boxer basically runs on Inner Space, which is a layer between the game and the operating system.
    So the game can be made to think each window has focus, when really only the current window has focus.
    Not really sure how Lax has done this, but IS Boxer works with a multitude of games that no other boxing software supports.
    EverQuest I: Bard / Enchanter / Druid / Wizard / 2x Magician.
    Diablo III: 4x Crusader & 4x Wizard.

    My Guide to IS Boxer http://www.dual-boxing.com/showthread.php?t=26231 (somewhat dated).
    Streaming in 1080p HD: www.twitch.tv/ualaa
    Twitter: @Ualaa


  3. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by HydraCoder View Post
    Thanks a lot for all of the feedback, peoples. I guess I can't say that I'm not trying to predatorily compete with the big-time software solutions, but I don't feel as though I'd want to charge for my software (regardless of if I might benefit financially from it, I like free stuff, and I'd feel hypocritical to sell it), while still having the features that boxers want.

    What I'm doing, essentially, is trying to challenge myself to put out a quality piece of software. But since I really am not as hardcore into multi-boxing as a lot of other people are, I honestly haven't really felt the need to have more than a simple cloning of keys across windows and physical machines (over a network).

    I know that if I were to release such, it'd probably never get used, and it honestly isn't a challenge for me to write (The project is currently at the very alpha stage of cloning across windows/machines, without many options to boot, after an admittedly small time put toward it). So I wanted to gain some idea of inspiration to direct my effort from the community, and it looks like I got more than I could have hoped for. Looks like I have my hands full, and I'm excited for it.

    I could put out a release of what I have, but honestly, it's not in a state in which I'd feel satisfied to do so. The UI isn't fleshed out as much as I'd like, and I haven't put it through the paces yet to make sure it doesn't get any hard lockups and the like.

    Sorry that if I am "hey I'm gonna make a multiboxer" #2592394, but I'm sure that I won't be dropping off of the face of the earth just yet. This is also an opportunity to gain experience to further my career goals, my goal has been to turn a light hobby into a job position. (Granted, I did say this would be free, and I mean that.)

    So again, thank you all so much for your suggestions, I appreciate your time and the thought you put into your replies. Despite if you thought to discourage me, it's only fed my creative juices and got my mind churning on the intricate systems that I'd have to weave. Brain candy for me!

    (Oh, and I forgot to mention, I purchased keyclone a few years back, and have talked to Rob a few times myself, he's a great guy, and my aim is not to put these people out of business! This is a personal venture to advance my knowledge and experience.)

    EDIT: There was so much information in the replies, I just wanted to give a tip of the hat to Svpernova09 for his reply. It made me smile. I'll see what I can do!

    Also, I'm going to be sending some messages to the people who replied with a list of suggestions to see if I could get some elaboration on some of them. They sound interesting, but the short descriptions I don't think will aid me much in the way of fleshing some of them out.

    I would go on to the line off pwnboxer/keyclone software its simple and if there was something out there like that but free then am sure many would use it and does a great job. i love isboxer but sometimes beta and
    Pt's can crash isboxer a lot so i normally go to keyclone but it jut feels out off date with the window mangent and other cool stuff like that.


    so what a saying is Keep it simple easy to use nothing to much on the system nice easy UI and a good window manger and add network support and you have a new bit off software you can still make money off free software. a lot off the free software out there does not have the UI to get the new boxer's that does not wont to go though the long road off setting up isboxer or pay for it.

  4. #14

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    I second what ebony says. There is little point in trying to make a free / open source (?) copy of isboxer. ISboxer has amazing features, but I think (just like most software) only a very small amount of the users use all the advanced stuff. So I definitely believe that there is a niche for a simple tool that does good what it promises. Keymaps, window swapping & mouse broadcasting, ftl jamba integration (with a wizard) are what most people use imo.
    Everything that is fun in life is either bad for your health, immoral or illegal!

  5. #15

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    I am one of the multiple computer boxers (lots of people box on one computer). I would have to have network support.
    I would like, if you are too awesome to have a mixed PC/Mac support. But I don't need all the bells and whistles. I don't need multiple windows on a computer, I don't need macro integration, I don't need any sandboxing or CPU/GPU options. For the Mac/PC part, I would just need to have the Macs receive keys.

    Now that Blizzard has changed WOW to not do round robins, I have to do that outside in my key broadcasting software. I use HotKeyNet. That would be pretty important.
    It has been nice to start WOW on the other machines through a keystroke. I guess being able to run a shell/command line command would be nice.
    It would be good to have a way to see, 1) What key sequence did you push "You last pressed: CTRL-ALT-G", 2) Did that sequence get sent to other computers/windows, "Computer 2 received your keys", "Window WOW2 was not available", 3) Be able to not blow up if a computer/window is not running (like if only 2 out of computers/windows used).
    For networked computers, be able to use computer name instead of IP address (in case of DHCP).
    For mice, support for button4/5 (thumb buttons on side of mouse). I don't really require click broadcasting. I know others would want it bad. But I would require button broadcasting.

    I have used HotKeyNet since the beginning. I really like the programmer. Great support, nice forum for support (here and there). I like that it is free. I like that there were features added. I would suggest starting off small and work your way up. For me, something working is better than promises. I really only box in WOW.

  6. #16

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    If you can make your new software both powerful/feature rich AND simple/easy to use, then you'll likely have a winning combo.
    Easier said than done though.
    I love ISBoxer, but my biggest complaint is that it's not simple/easy to use.
    Granted, there is a wizard to get you started, but anything beyond that requires a substantial time investment to learn and understand.

  7. #17

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    Somthing even more dummy proof. Ill give an example of what i would like to see. In a creation wizzard.

    1st step Enter your game >>..WoW

    2nd step Build your team

    slot one? Name>> Paladin. what spec >.PvE Prot. What Alt spec >. PvP Holy
    Slot two Name >> Shaman. What spec> PvE Resto. ALt spec>> PvP Elemental
    Slot three Name>> Shaman. What spec> PvE Elemental. Alts spec PvP Elemental
    Slot 4 etc.........

    Now when i load the new team. it will have hotkeys AND macros built based on what the "popular" builds are for those specs. In game i can change hotkeys to my liking or use the default ones the sofware created for me. I can also build quick macros and hotkeys in an in game interface via drag and drop/shift clicking on spells. The choice could be " choose type of macro. ie /castsequence or /cast. It could add reset times..and other conditions via click boxes. ( these macros would be created inside the software, not the game, but you could do it from inside the game)

    That would be my dream addition to ISboxer btw 8) but something that no software has.
    Currently 5 Boxing 5 Protection Paladins on Whisperwind Alliance
    The Power of Five!!! ( short video )

  8. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by ElectronDF View Post
    I am one of the multiple computer boxers (lots of people box on one computer). I would have to have network support.
    I would like, if you are too awesome to have a mixed PC/Mac support. But I don't need all the bells and whistles. I don't need multiple windows on a computer, I don't need macro integration, I don't need any sandboxing or CPU/GPU options. For the Mac/PC part, I would just need to have the Macs receive keys.

    Now that Blizzard has changed WOW to not do round robins, I have to do that outside in my key broadcasting software. I use HotKeyNet. That would be pretty important.
    It has been nice to start WOW on the other machines through a keystroke. I guess being able to run a shell/command line command would be nice.
    It would be good to have a way to see, 1) What key sequence did you push "You last pressed: CTRL-ALT-G", 2) Did that sequence get sent to other computers/windows, "Computer 2 received your keys", "Window WOW2 was not available", 3) Be able to not blow up if a computer/window is not running (like if only 2 out of computers/windows used).
    For networked computers, be able to use computer name instead of IP address (in case of DHCP).
    For mice, support for button4/5 (thumb buttons on side of mouse). I don't really require click broadcasting. I know others would want it bad. But I would require button broadcasting.

    I have used HotKeyNet since the beginning. I really like the programmer. Great support, nice forum for support (here and there). I like that it is free. I like that there were features added. I would suggest starting off small and work your way up. For me, something working is better than promises. I really only box in WOW.
    I'd love to put this on a Mac, as well, but I do not own one (nor the funds to get one), and then I'd have to learn how Macs do windowing and input, since right now I'm using WinApi libraries. So I don't see that being a foreseeable possibility, unless someone wants to send me a Mac (or I can somehow legally use Mac in a virtual machine?)

    As for round robins, that was already going to be a feature from the start, as well as launching the game window. I have an old program that I made for myself to manage my multiple accounts before the inclusion of Battle.net being tied to one email (it automatically opened the game, input my account/password in 2-channel obfuscated fashion, etc. So I have some code for that already built.)

    Verbose event logging is already in the basic client (state changes, keystrokes, etc), and I plan on making it a lot nicer (Sorting by message type, some richtext formatting, etc)

    Hostname support is already included with the networking library, so no worries with DHCP and having to fiddle with your IP address. (Did I also mention that communications across the wire will be encrypted with a shared password and AES, for your security?)

    I'm debating on whether or not to release the basic client (Just simple networked keystroke cloning), as a start-up point, and then release further updates as I add features, or have a number of requested features in before releasing, eh community?

    I'm really excited about the feedback, thanks a lot guys, you've given me a lot to do, and it's really fun!

    While working on some code for one of the features, I started a side-project, whipped it up in short amount of time last night, to make windows borderless. I made another post about this in this forum topic, so check it out! (If you wanted/needed borderless windows, that is, I believe a lot of solutions already do this).

  9. #19
    Member Norrin's Avatar
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    You can have the source to MultiLaunchBox if you want a base for a simple Mac application.
    I was going to look into making MLB available on the pc with the ability to talk to Mac (MLB is already network ready for Macs using Bonjour).

    But with ISBoxer being so awesome, I gave up on all Mac coding and just bootcamped to Win 7.

    If you google Mac Virtual Machine (or something like that), you find information on creating a Mac OS VS on PC.
    I think you need a legal copy of Snow Leopard though. Not sure if Lion works or not. Since I no longer have a mac desktop for development I use the VM for playing around with.

  10. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Norrin View Post
    You can have the source to MultiLaunchBox if you want a base for a simple Mac application.
    I was going to look into making MLB available on the pc with the ability to talk to Mac (MLB is already network ready for Macs using Bonjour).

    But with ISBoxer being so awesome, I gave up on all Mac coding and just bootcamped to Win 7.

    If you google Mac Virtual Machine (or something like that), you find information on creating a Mac OS VS on PC.
    I think you need a legal copy of Snow Leopard though. Not sure if Lion works or not. Since I no longer have a mac desktop for development I use the VM for playing around with.
    Sounds good, however, what's it written in? If it's Objective-C then It'll probably not help me very much. I primarily write in C#, with a little bit of C++. It'd have to be something like Mono C#, which if I were to go Mac support, would be my first choice in making the project cross platform. The main issue is really how to work Mac's UI, as I'm sure it's a completely different beast than WinApi calls and P/invoke.

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