Jamba Follow Strobing vs. WoW TOS

[algol]

"I can, therefore I should" is a poor argument.

Very true. But also there's the announced policy that they will simply remove any functionality they don't want addons to have access to. But OTOH again, you can build an addon that spams the tar out of /2 or that automatically harasses random people and get yourself in trouble that way. So...use your head and make sure you don't talk yourself into something you can't talk yourself out of later.

Something like Jamba follow strobing that works within the API and only operates to help workaround glitches in the game that cause /follow not to work as intended? Probably fine.

[elsegundo]

if follow strobe is automation, then auto follow after combat should be automation as well.

[Vyndree]

But also there's the announced policy that they will simply remove any functionality they don't want addons to have access to.

Like I said, they're very clear about delays... And I'm not saying anyone's going to get banned, Sam. I simply said that you can't make the claim that "it's in the API, it's legal". There are ways to very clearly break the ToU/EULA while using hte in-game API.

For a very simple example:

/y SPAM SPAM SPAM
/y SPAM SPAM SPAM
/y SPAM SPAM SPAM
/y SPAM SPAM SPAM
/y SPAM SPAM SPAM
/y SPAM SPAM SPAM

Congrats -- you are using the in-game macro system and still breaking the rules. Is it Blizzard's responsibility to make sure spamming is impossible to do using the in-game API? No. You agreed not to spam when you clicked "I accept" to the ToU/Eula every patch and when you first installed.

You can swear using the in-game commands. You can write a script with a delay in it (see spoiler in previous post). You can harass people using the in-game commands. It's your responsibility to make sure your actions don't violate the rules -- Blizzard helps you help yourself through limitations in the in-game API, but that doesn't mean they were omnipotent in protecting you from yourself. If I made that spam macro above and told Blizzard "But, you allow it in your built in macro system! It's legal!"... I would still get hit with the penalty volcano of bansticks/warnings.

People get banned for swearing regardless of whether the profanity filter is on or off. You get alot of "but, the profanity filter is there, so I can swear all I want" arguments on the CS forums, but that doesn't excuse their behavior. Just like spamming and getting booted off-server automagically won't prevent you from getting actioned for spamming.

So, anyway -- I'm not saying anyone's going to get banned, I'm simply saying that it CANNOT be inferred that "if I can do it using the API/Macro System, it is guaranteed to be OK". I'm also saying "If you're worried, ASK a OFFICIAL source".

Minimap Ping was a bug in the API, and was fixed. Nobody got banned because Blizzard decided it was an honest mistake. The same thing could happen here, or it could be an acceptable use as decided by Blizzard, or it could be bannable. None of us can honestly say with 100% certainty what it is, therefore -- the only obvious action is to ask someone who can respond in an official capacity.

So, I'm totally fine with what algol is saying: He says it is PROBABLY ok, which is opinion. Saying that it's allowed because "the API lets me" or "the macro system lets me" is a false statement, and the only one I'm arguing with. :)

Also TONS of add ons do repetitive searchs for like enemies in your area (obviously the code does it at some interval)

IMO, this seems shady. I use VanasKOS, but it only tells me an enemy is in the area if it a) does something visible in the combat log (which is simply parsing existing information sent to my PC) or b) I mouse over the target

items for sale in AH

I don't use the bottomscanner feature of Auctioneer, if that's what you're talking about. I know auto-buying things is against the rules, however -- it must be initiated by a "buy this" click from the user. You can't just continually scan and auto-buy, you must actually be the one clicking the "ok, buy this" button. From what I understand (though I may be wrong), BottomScanner is simply doing some sorting on the state of the auctions, and prompting you with a "buy" button which you need invoke/click if you want to purchase the item.

and almost any kind of add on that warns you about somethign has to be checking at spicific intervals. Even threat has to be monitored at intervals.

You might be misinterpreting this -- for one, the combat log does a great job of informing you of changes in state. You don't need to purposefully monitor something when it feeds you the information on its own. Furthermore, threat is a state that cannot be dynamically altered by the user directly -- so you're simply using an addon that reports the state of a creature but doesn't alter anything in-game. Much like a CPU monitoring program shows you how much processor time different programs are using -- it's not automatic unless it was attempting to dynamically load-balance multiple processors. Reporting on a given state of an object is not automation since you are never altering what that state is.

So if the addon simply said "YOU BROKE FOLLOW!", all it's doing is reporting on the current state of the object. If it's CHANGING the state of the follower, that COULD be considered an action (granted, a non-GCD invoking action). Therefore, it's state manipulation and not reporting. Which is why I think the OP's concern is legitimate, and that he/she should investigate before using something that concerns them.

[Souca]

Quoted from "Souca"
If they didn't want it done, you wouldn't be able to.



Just because you CAN do it with the built-in macros or API doesn't mean you SHOULD.

/sigh

I'll admit I'm a little frustrated, but I wouldn't say I'm mad. While I could have phrased my reply better, I do not like how a single line quote is used to extrapolate the meaning of my post, especially since it doesn't represent my intent.

I provided a source of APIs as an example of what can and can't be done. I left it as an exercise for the reader to determine if they felt it was in the realm of things Blizzard would allow. I will admit I inferred it was acceptable based on the behaviors that currently exist involving targetting and the follow commands as they are written the API. I never talked about delays, spamming or justification of exploits or other behavior because one can.

In the future I'll be sure to have my lawyer review my posts.

- Souca -

[algol]

So if the addon simply said "YOU BROKE FOLLOW!", all it's doing is reporting on the current state of the object.

I vaguely remember /follow being on a short list of "protected functions" or something like that? Maybe it was "safe functions"? My memory's a bit fuzzy on the topic. I think the list is mostly emotes & chat functions. I mostly remember being slightly confused that something that seems like an action wasn't being treated like most others.

[Souca]

[quote='algol',index.php?page=Thread&postID=181901# post181901]
[quote='Vyndree',index.php?page=Thread&postID=18186 3#post181863]So if the addon simply said "YOU BROKE FOLLOW!", all it's doing is reporting on the current state of the object.
[/quote]I vaguely remember /follow being on a short list of "protected functions" or something like that? Maybe it was "safe functions"? My memory's a bit fuzzy on the topic. I think the list is mostly emotes & chat functions. I mostly remember being slightly confused that something that seems like an action wasn't being treated like most others.[/quote]The command I have used in my addon is:

[b][url='http://www.wowwiki.com/API_FollowUnit']FollowUnit[/url]("unit") - Follow an ally with the specified UnitID [/b]

It is the only movement function that is not protected. This is the reason my initial post was written the way it was. Looking at the list of movement functions WoWwiki, you can come to your own conclusion.

- Souca -

[Vyndree]

I'll admit I'm a little frustrated, but I wouldn't say I'm mad. While I could have phrased my reply better, I do not like how a single line quote is used to extrapolate the meaning of my post, especially since it doesn't represent my intent.

Don't take my stance as an attack -- far from it. I'm simply attempting to clarify certain logical inconsistencies.

The argument that Blizzard protects its own API calls that it doesn't want users fussing with in-combat is a legitimate one, but not totalitarian. The only issue I am making is that, while Blizzard can PREVENT you from doing SOME things they don't want you to do, that's not to say that everything you CAN do is ACCEPTABLE.

Call me a nut, but I took two symbolic logic courses in college just because I liked it so much. So I wanted to make the distinction that PreventedAPI therefore NotOK is not equivalent to NotPreventedAPI therefore OK.

Basically... P --> !O does not mean !P --> O.

If Blizzard didn't want things done, I would assume they would TRY to make it difficult, if not impossible, to do so. However, creative uses of various API doesn't always make those uses kosher the first time around, therefore (since Blizz uses a patching system), they will attempt to keep the API's as robust as possible given restraints on time, cost, and difficulty. That means, there COULD (but may not always) exist a known or unknown rulebreaking action that can be done using the game's API -- doesn't mean there IS, or there WAS, or there IS GOING TO BE -- but there COULD. Therefore, totalitarian statements about what Blizzard "wants" based on the existing API are erroneous, or, at the very least, ambiguously misleading since Blizzards wants and the state of the API are dynamic based on the patching system and the history of the API system (which continues to change each patch).

In short: The rules make the API (as best they can), but the API doesn't make the rules.

Anyway, like I said -- I'm not trying to criticise anyone in particular or offend anyone, I'm simply taking a rather misleading series of statements that seems to re-appear quite often as a "general rule" accepted by the community, and add a dash of devil's advocate and constructive logic.

I'm certain a nontrivial amount of effort is required to make the APIs the way they are, and I don't think Blizzard's been careless on their part. I simply think that using the API to determine what the rules are is a bit circular and potentially dangerous.

[Souca]

no longer work[/url] (fail silently) in patch 1.6 if NOT triggered from a hardware event (just like spell casts). As of patch 1.10 many of these functions were protected for use of only Blizzard signed code
PROTECTED CameraOrSelectOrMoveStart() - Begin "Left click" in the 3D world. (1.10 - Protected)
PROTECTED CameraOrSelectOrMoveStop([stickyFlag]) - End "Left click" in the 3D world. (1.10 - Protected)
FollowUnit("unit") - Follow an ally with the specified UnitID
PROTECTED JumpOrAscendStart() - Makes the player jump.
PROTECTED AscendStop() - Called when you release the jump key.
PROTECTED MoveBackwardStart - The player begins moving backward at the specified time.
PROTECTED MoveBackwardStop - The player stops moving backward at the specified time.
PROTECTED MoveForwardStart - The player begins moving forward at the specified time.
PROTECTED MoveForwardStop - The player stops moving forward at the specified time.
PROTECTED StrafeLeftStart - The player begins strafing left at the specified time.
PROTECTED StrafeLeftStop - The player stops strafing left at the specified time.
PROTECTED StrafeRightStart - The player begins strafing right at the specified time.
PROTECTED StrafeRightStop - The player stops strafing right at the specified time.
PROTECTED ToggleAutoRun - Turns auto-run on or off
ToggleMouseMove()
PROTECTED ToggleRun - Toggle between running and walking.
PROTECTED TurnLeftStart - The player starts turning left at the specified time.
PROTECTED TurnLeftStop - The player stops turning left at the specified time.
PROTECTED TurnOrActionStart() - Begin "Right Click" in the 3D world. (1.10 - Protected)
PROTECTED TurnOrActionStop() - End "Right Click" in the 3D world. (1.10 - Protected)
PROTECTED TurnRightStart - The player starts turning right at the specified time.
PROTECTED TurnRightStop - The player stops turning right at the specified time.

FollowUnit and ToggleMouseMove are the only APIs that aren't protected. This doesn't prove anything, it's just the direction my interpretation came from.

Until the PTR you couldn't loot without a mouse click, now you can. Guess we can't even count on not being able to do something meaning we shouldn't be able to

The OP has every right to be concerned, it is their accounts after all. I just think at times we have gotten a little too paranoid about being banned and unless a Blue tells us that every click and keypress is okay we can't do anything; but that's another topic all together.

- Souca -

[Vyndree]

I just think at times we have gotten a little too paranoid about being banned and unless a Blue tells us that every click and keypress is okay we can't do anything; but that's another topic all together.

I've always been that way. ;) Which is why I hardware 'box. ;)

[Chorizotarian]

While researching a bit on /click, I did find someone posting a way to insert a delay into the normal /macro interface (which we all know is a big no-no). So the argument that "it's in the in-game macro interface, it's ok" can be nullified:
[spoiler]http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=14697300474&postId=14695898097 1&sid=1
/cast MySpell
/script ...
/cast MySpell2
[/spoiler]

I thought /script and /run were disabled in combat. (I could check of course, but I'm too lazy.)